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[Skilletor]

nothing is as fun as controlling/mastering Mario in Mario 64

Is mario that floaty in 64 or just a result of the gif? Doesn't look like anything I couldn't accomplish with just normal jumps, either. Just a flashy way of getting from point A to point B. Would be more impressive if the moveset was necessary to complete these tasks and not just there to make you look cool where normal jumps are just as effective.

 

[MYE]

SM64 controls better and has a better camera than 3D World.

Sad but true.

hahaha

 

[BGBW]

Bullshit. Find the quote.

[post=94897678]I suppose you are gong to point out you only mentioned SMB 1, 2 and 3.[/post]

 

[Anth0ny]

Let's not get carried away.

I'm gonna have to disagree.

I played 64 recently, and the controls and camera have aged horribly. I was struggling to get Mario to do what I wanted him to do a lot of the time.

Controls, perhaps (though they're kind of 'looser' and floatier than SM3DW, which it can get away with due to the much reduced amount of super tight platforming).

But camera, fuck no. The camera in SM3DW is a bit disappointing in some ways, and there are so many situations in which control is completely taken away from the player.

But in SM64 the camera was AWFUL at the worst possible times. Rotating by itself unexpectedly while tightroping a narrow section, or midair during a jump. Getting stuck on the environment at times, etc.

Mario 64 might be the greatest game of all time. But the camera left A LOT to be desired.

same here. the game felt like a chore to play. apparently it controls better with an N64 controller though...

I'm playing Mario 64, no way in hell is the camera better than 3D World. It was fantastic at the time but you have to constantly nanny it and when you're close to walls it can be problematic. 3D World camera is pretty much flawless, perspective might be a bit trouble sometimes, but without stereoscopic 3D it's hard to fix that.

I like Mario 64's weightiness and his acrobatics, but recent Mario physics are much easier to control, I became much surer or that now that I'm playing it with my nephew. There isn't a big difference in acrobatic ability between 64 and 3D World, it doesn't have the triple jump and the ones involving the punch, but it has the roll, the roll jump, spin jump, the big jump after the ground pound and in multiplayer there's the jump when you jump on top of someone and the boost jump if the other player's crouching. That and the power ups provide loads of new moves.

I can understand preferring 64's physics though, but the camera? No way is 64's better.

This has to be a joke. Pure nostalgia. The controls in 64 don't even touch the Galaxy games let alone 3D Land/World. 64 has plenty of control issues. But it was the first 3D Mario so it was forgivable. That doesn't mean it controls well by modern 3D Mario standards, or by general 3D platformer standards now. And as for the camera, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No. The camera in Mario 64 is fucking awful by todays standards. You have to babysit it constantly. Modern 3D Mario games might not give you much freedom in terms of camera controls, but that's because they don't need to. The level design is much tighter and more focused, and the camera is pretty much always pointed where you need it to.

hahaha

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then, try watching a speed run.

2. Believe it or not, the camera is a similar case. It's not easy to control, but once you do learn how to control the camera in Mario 64, it's pretty damn good. I'll take a camera that requires precision and some weird inputs (c buttons and flipping between the Lakitu and Mario camera), over a camera that literally tells you "no fuck you, you can't adjust the camera right now", which is the case in Galaxy 1/2 and 3D World.

 

[Freezie KO]

[post=94897678]I suppose you are gong to point out you only mentioned SMB 1, 2 and 3.[/post]

You suppose I'm going to correct your inaccuracies? Of course, I am. You can't say that I said something when I said something different. SMB1, 2, and 3 didn't have collectathon stuff, which is why I mentioned them. I'll explain why I specifically mentioned those later.

But first, as mentioned in that quote, I was specifically referring to the green stars/star coins and gold flags hence "THAT collectathon stuff" not just "collectathon stuff" in general.

Here's the quote in context:

Goodness. Maybe that 2d Mario theory was right. The stuff you're complaining about is solid, classic Mario design man.

The three green stars (star coins, basically) weren't introduced until NSMB, and gold flag poles were brought to the table from 3D Land. I don't remember any of that collectathon stuff in SMB1, 2, or 3.

Dr.Hadji was implying that the green stars and gold flag is "solid, classic Mario design". That's what I was disputing, so I mentioned "classic Mario design" as a rebuttal. Of course, I would pick the first three Mario games, as those exemplify classic Mario design. Unless the argument is that "classic Mario design" didn't begin until SMW, which is far more exploratory than the other games, and I would dispute that notion.

 

[evilromero]

I think there are a lot of varying opinions that are being cast into two major categories- I like/don't like 3D World.

For me, I LIKE 3D World. In fact, I think it's great and stands as a good example of that Nintendo polish. But do I want a more ambitious Mario game that follows a bit closer to 64/Sunshine? HELL YES! It gets me so excited just thinking about it. That's not nostalgia. That's dollar signs for Nintendo.

 

[shouamabane]

I like variety.

3D World is a very good game. I'd like to see a direct sequel to Mario 64 too.

 

[Gestault]

Having completed the vanilla levels with all stamps, stars and pole-tops with the help of a friend, I think this is a fair opinion from my part:

The game is fantastic as it exists, but the camera angles and lack of 3D depth information can be a source of frustration. Considering some individual levels are the size of full "open" Mario levels from things like Mario 64, I think that's worth taking into account when comparing them. The amount of content is fantastic, hopefully you'll be able to come back to it a little later on and enjoy it.

 

[11redder]

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then

I agree with this 100%. I can understand people having a preference for the play style of Galaxy or Land/World but to claim that any 3D Mario controls better than 64 is insanity. Nothing would make me happier than to be able to play all the 3D Mario games with the physics, controls and moveset of 64. Ninja indeed.

 

[tronic307]

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then, try watching a speed run.

2. Believe it or not, the camera is a similar case. It's not easy to control, but once you do learn how to control the camera in Mario 64, it's pretty damn good. I'll take a camera that requires precision and some weird inputs (c buttons and flipping between the Lakitu and Mario camera), over a camera that literally tells you "no fuck you, you can't adjust the camera right now", which is the case in Galaxy 1/2 and 3D World.

Agreed, if you're not devoted to SM64, you suck.

But seriously, Galaxy wouldn't have been as focused with all those moves. More sequence breaks, if that. The roll has made its return in 3D World, and the cat pounce is sort of like the dive. I wouldn't mind the punch-punch-kick if there were enemies that had more than 2 hitpoints. The moveset is vast, but it seems like they were trying everything back then to see what would stick, and a lot of it hasn't. What was that leg sweep used for again?

 

[Sciz]

Dr.Hadji was implying that the green stars and gold flag is "solid, classic Mario design". That's what I was disputing, so I mentioned "classic Mario design" as a rebuttal. Of course, I would pick the first three Mario games, as those exemplify classic Mario design. Unless the argument is that "classic Mario design" didn't begin until SMW, which is far more exploratory than the other games, and I would dispute that notion.

The problem is that you're drawing a completely arbitrary line in a place that Nintendo never did, as though later games ignored the innovations of anything that wasn't in 8-bit. Including SMB2 is especially egregious since its original version wasn't a Mario game at all and required beating it four times to get the real ending. If you want to extend the argument to SMB2j, that's the game that required beating it eight times over to unlock a third of the content. Is grinding out replays classic Mario design instead, then?

Never mind that the GBC/GBA ports added collectables anyway, so even if you do ignore YI as a contributor to the series for whatever silly reason, it's still an older idea than NSMB.

 

[balohna]

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then, try watching a speed run.

2. Believe it or not, the camera is a similar case. It's not easy to control, but once you do learn how to control the camera in Mario 64, it's pretty damn good. I'll take a camera that requires precision and some weird inputs (c buttons and flipping between the Lakitu and Mario camera), over a camera that literally tells you "no fuck you, you can't adjust the camera right now", which is the case in Galaxy 1/2 and 3D World.

I loved Super Mario 64 when it came out and still love it to this day. I am not a speed runner or anything, but I've played through it multiple times and messed around with it just weeks ago and had a blast.

That said, the limits SM3DW put on controls and the camera are for the better. It's a different kind of game, and while I wouldn't call it superior to SM64 I would say it's worth mentioning in the same breath. It's a much more cohesive, polished, accessible game. SM64 may have that extra layer of depth when you just get it and everything feels nice, but steep learning curves are almost never worth praising in terms of game design. You'll make a subset of people happy while making things very difficult for the majority, and completely alienate anyone that doesn't have the patience to learn. SM3DW erases that. It's a hard game, but you aren't going to do better or worse because you know little obscure movement tricks and how to fiddle with the camera just right. It just works and makes sense. Immediately. To me, that's an improvement.

 

[Stet]

Is mario that floaty in 64 or just a result of the gif? Doesn't look like anything I couldn't accomplish with just normal jumps, either. Just a flashy way of getting from point A to point B. Would be more impressive if the moveset was necessary to complete these tasks and not just there to make you look cool where normal jumps are just as effective.

The moveset is necessary to complete those tasks that quickly. I like having a large moveset, even if you don't need to use it just playing from point A to point B.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

I just bought it online so I hope I at least like it. I plan on playing with my fiancee and we had a blast playing NSMB so hopefully we'll have the same type of experience here

 

[majik13]

Finally played it last night, and realized a couple of times that I had a big smile on my face and was even laughing a couple times. cant wait to play with some buddies.

i can see some people might be dissapointed if they think this game is going to be more like M64, Sunshine or even Galaxy. Even I was a little bummed at first when we learned it will be a course style game, instead of collecting stars. But I loved every minute of 3D Land, and the gameplay is just as good and even better than that.

 

[rex]

All this gif says is that Mario 64 has the best moveset, which it absolutely does. It's open, less platforming oriented level design never actually demanded this level of play from the players in the way that the Galaxy or 3D games actually emphasize constant platforming with their more tight design. Anyboy can master a game- even a cruddy one- with enough time and show off skills that make the game look amazing; that's not really a credit to the game itself.

All that said- I would absolutely love to see 64's moveset return, married to the more tight design of modern entries, with levels that actually require proper utilization of the full moveset.

Well, I think if you're not playing Mario 64 like Siglemic, or aspiring to play the game that way, you're just not going to get the most out of the game.

The brilliant controls combined with levels which don't automatically kill you if you miss a jump practically encourage playing the game with a reckless abandon.

There's a playground quality to the levels which to me is what makes the game special, but to a lot of 2D Mario fans makes the game an act of sacrilege.

And there's actually a ton of platforming in Mario 64. Out of the 18 main levels, six are nothing but platforming (bowser 1, 2, and 3, Lethal Lava Land, Tick Tock Clock, and Rainbow Ride), and seven have what I would call moderate to heavy platforming (Bomb Bomb Battlefield, Whomp's Fortress, Shifting Sand Land, Hazy Maze Cave, Wet Dry World, Tall Tall Mountain, and Snowman's Land).

Now, maybe you can quibble with some of these, but it's not like 3D World doesn't have its share of levels without any platforming (ie, jumping). People raved about the shadow level, and the course with the dinosaur rafting. There's no platforming there. Is travelling through transparent pipes an example of platforming? No one criticized it on those grounds when it was revealed.

Now, if you're going to say that platforming is not exclusively tied to jumping, that's fine, and I'd agree with that. But then that opens up a lot of what Mario 64 does in the courses I didn't cite above to be counted in the definition of platforming.

Talk about tight platforming mechanics really just seems to be code for linearity, which to me is the primary difference between all the 3D Marios, not the amount of platforming.

 

[castlemadeofsand]

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then, try watching a speed run.

2. Believe it or not, the camera is a similar case. It's not easy to control, but once you do learn how to control the camera in Mario 64, it's pretty damn good. I'll take a camera that requires precision and some weird inputs (c buttons and flipping between the Lakitu and Mario camera), over a camera that literally tells you "no fuck you, you can't adjust the camera right now", which is the case in Galaxy 1/2 and 3D World.

your points are probably correct, i just don't find the levels to be interesting in mario 64. I guess the galaxy games with their unrivaled creativity and tighter focus on actual platforming has tainted mario 64 for me since i didn't play it first. I would't mind a return to that move set and physics though.

 

[Natureboy99]

For me it's a nice game, just over rated. Graphics are average even by ps3 era standards. The map design is lazy, uninteresting (really, 2 desert worlds? Pipes always take you to the next area instead of something new like in past Mario's?). I could go on.

The game is a solid 7.

 

[Grakl]

For me it's a nice game, just over rated. Graphics are average even by ps3 era standards. The map design is lazy, uninteresting (really, 2 desert worlds? Pipes always take you to the next area instead of something new like in past Mario's?). I could go on.

The game is a solid 7.

I'd like it if you went on.

 

[Tookay]

Is mario that floaty in 64 or just a result of the gif? Doesn't look like anything I couldn't accomplish with just normal jumps, either. Just a flashy way of getting from point A to point B. Would be more impressive if the moveset was necessary to complete these tasks and not just there to make you look cool where normal jumps are just as effective.

I like having options.

 

[The Boat]

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then, try watching a speed run.

2. Believe it or not, the camera is a similar case. It's not easy to control, but once you do learn how to control the camera in Mario 64, it's pretty damn good. I'll take a camera that requires precision and some weird inputs (c buttons and flipping between the Lakitu and Mario camera), over a camera that literally tells you "no fuck you, you can't adjust the camera right now", which is the case in Galaxy 1/2 and 3D World.

There's more to controls than being able to pull off stuff if you play well. Nevertheless I have no problem with 64's controls, but they aren't as easy as 3D World's and that's important in a Mario game. Not to mention that what you say applies to any consequent Mario game, once you master it, you can do loads of things with Mario.

When it comes to camera, I disagree entirely. Camera should be as least intrusive as possible. In 3D World you never have to touch the controls and you see everything perfectly. In 64 you have to mess with the camera constantly and at times there's not a lot you can do. Just because one can get used to it and manage it well doesn't make it better than a camera system that does all the work for you and always well.
Edit: and you can control 3D World's camera most of the time.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

Is mario that floaty in 64 or just a result of the gif? Doesn't look like anything I couldn't accomplish with just normal jumps, either. Just a flashy way of getting from point A to point B. Would be more impressive if the moveset was necessary to complete these tasks and not just there to make you look cool where normal jumps are just as effective.

Have you not played the game? Maybe that's the problem with a lot of people who don't make comments on 64's greatness; their lack of experience with the game.


EDIT: Damnit Anth0ny.. droppin' TRUTH/HURT bombs once again. We need to dominate TEAMS once Smash comes out ;]

Add me if you see this and/or send me a PM. UNKNOWN-iXi

 

[traveler]

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then, try watching a speed run.

2. Believe it or not, the camera is a similar case. It's not easy to control, but once you do learn how to control the camera in Mario 64, it's pretty damn good. I'll take a camera that requires precision and some weird inputs (c buttons and flipping between the Lakitu and Mario camera), over a camera that literally tells you "no fuck you, you can't adjust the camera right now", which is the case in Galaxy 1/2 and 3D World.

Moveset is not the same as quality of control. One can think Mario has his best moveset in 64 while still preferring the controls in another game without being inconsistent. (And that is exactly how I feel)

Second, you don't need to ever execute at that level. You can beat the whole game without needing to master anything. To be fair, this is an issue with way too many games outside of Mario, be it imbalances in SRPGs, (LUCT is pretty much ruined by the existence of archers) the effectiveness of combat over stealth in some recent Splinter Cells, or a general lack of necessity for strategy in most RPGs, despite their supposedly cerebral appeal. It is not enough for a game to simply include options and potential for depth- the design must encourage and foster the growth of skill for it to truly be good.

 

[Sanjuro]

Makes me wish the DS remake/port had some sort of analog control option. It's almost a perfect game :/

Because of this, it's release is basically a gimmicky standalone. I remember how dreadful the "analog" controls were and people tried to defend them. The game was still serviceable with the d-pad and ultimately was just the showcase to move the new handheld.

If it was a launch title for the 3DS? Then we might be talking.

 

[Roto13]

In no universe is the camera for Super Mario 64 better than the cameras in the Wii and Wii U Mario games. No way.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then, try watching a speed run.

2. Believe it or not, the camera is a similar case. It's not easy to control, but once you do learn how to control the camera in Mario 64, it's pretty damn good. I'll take a camera that requires precision and some weird inputs (c buttons and flipping between the Lakitu and Mario camera), over a camera that literally tells you "no fuck you, you can't adjust the camera right now", which is the case in Galaxy 1/2 and 3D World.

That video is all shades of awesome .

 

[Sanjuro]

In no universe is the camera for Super Mario 64 better than the cameras in the Wii and Wii U Mario games. No way.

The only playable reference I have is Mario Galaxy, but Mario 64 absolutely has the better camera.

 

[entremet]

To be fair, it seems like we're complaining about an embarrassment of riches. Yes, SM64 was an epoch defining game in video game history, but video game fans get too attached and want the next big thing all the time. It's a bit unfair to developers because SM64 type games don't come out all the time.

It's almost as if we are rejecting a great home cooked meal because we want another four star restaurant trip. Yes, the four star restaurant was amazing, but you're not getting those everyday.

At least Mario games are still very good to excellent--save for the New series, which are decent. Can't really say that about Mega Man, Contra, FF or other long time Japanese series.

 

[Skilletor]

Have you not played the game? Maybe that's the problem with a lot of people who don't make comments on 64's greatness; their lack of experience with the game.


EDIT: Damnit Anth0ny.. droppin' TRUTH/HURT bombs once again. We need to dominate TEAMS once Smash comes out ;]

Add me if you see this and/or send me a PM. UNKNOWN-iXi

Enough to know I don't like the game. I hate the controls of 3D Mario games. 3D world has the best controls for me.

 

[RobFox64tm]

I think it's unfair to compare 3D World/Land with 64/Sunshine/Galaxy in the first place. They seem too different in execution to even be considered the same thing. Each one does what it sets out to do well though, so picking which one is definitively better seems pointless. I like that the "3D" games utilize classic Mario elements more frequently than the "free roaming" ones do, but at the same time I like the freedom you get in those games. I can't knock each type for not utilizing what the other does, though. I think there's a strong mindset that insists that because these games share the same IP, that they should all be similar. I like that Mario platforming games come in different flavors now. Variety is the spice of life.

 

[majik13]

I think it's unfair to compare 3D World/Land with 64/Sunshine/Galaxy in the first place. They seem too different in execution to even be considered the same thing. Each one does what it sets out to do well though, so picking which one is definitively better seems pointless. I like that the "3D" games utilize classic Mario elements more frequently than the "free roaming" ones do, but at the same time I like the freedom you get in those games. I can't knock each type for not utilizing what the other does, though. I think there's a strong mindset that insists that because these games share the same IP, that they should all be similar. I like that Mario platforming games come in different flavors now. Variety is the spice of life.

yes, well said, agreed. I am really digging 3D World as I did 3D Land, it injects fresh new ideas with old nastalgia. At the same time i also look forward to more "free roaming" Marios.

 

[Hale-XF11]

In no universe is the camera for Super Mario 64 better than the cameras in the Wii and Wii U Mario games. No way.

I think what most people are saying (or at least I am) is that I prefer to have complete and total control of the camera like SM64, allowing me to view the world from all angles and navigate as I see fit instead of being forced into one single perspective the entire way through.

By default, it wouldn't hurt to have the fixed camera angle, but it would be even more nice to be able to take it over and have complete control over it when I want that.

 

[daakusedo]

Is travelling through transparent pipes an example of platforming? No one criticized it on those grounds when it was revealed.

Clear pipes are a versatile idea, they can also be walked on and then involve platforming and it's faster to traverse that way but obviously more dangerous, so a good addition.

 

[The Technomancer]

More moves =/= better controls

More camera control =/= better camera

 

[Gartooth]

Mario 64 is fast and loose, 3D World is slow and stiff. One is better for exploring a "playground" and the other is better for precision platforming. I don't think that people are arguing that 3D World has bad controls, but rather they miss the freedom of 64 's.

 

[FSLink]

Moveset is not the same as quality of control. One can think Mario has his best moveset in 64 while still preferring the controls in another game without being inconsistent. (And that is exactly how I feel)

Second, you don't need to ever execute at that level. You can beat the whole game without needing to master anything. To be fair, this is an issue with way too many games outside of Mario, be it imbalances in SRPGs, the effectiveness of combat over stealth in some recent Splinter Cells, or a general lack of necessity for strategy in most RPGs, despite their supposedly cerebral appeal. It is not enough for a game to simply include options and potential for depth- the design must encourage and foster the growth of skill for it to truly be good.

Thank you, this is how I feel as well and I casually speedrun Super Mario 64. He's more fun to jump around in in 64, but I feel in 3D World combined with the level design the control is more refined there. However, I do miss the lack of triple jump and I wish there were more levels that took advantage of wall jumps.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Thank you, this is how I feel as well and I casually speedrun Super Mario 64. He's more fun to jump around in in 64, but I feel in 3D World combined with the level design the control is more refined there. However, I do miss the lack of triple jump and I wish there were more levels that took advantage of wall jumps.

Galaxy was the perfect in between imo..

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Best 3D Mario game by far. It's pretty awesome to me.

 

[Riposte]

Level design before "controls", I say.

Also I'm not exactly comfortable with people who take an ulillillia approach to an old mascot platformer being considered the norm, even within a "hardcore" enthusiast game discussion.

I find myself "exploring" for secrets and stuff all the time in 3D World.

 

[FSLink]

Galaxy was the perfect in between imo..

I think so too, for that type of game, but since 3D Land and World are more of a 2D styled Mario, I feel it's more appropriate here. The level design in Galaxy/Galaxy 2 would not work with 3D Land and World's controls, and same vice versa.

 

[catpurrcat]

It's a solid 8/10 game, but it has problems. Takes way too long to reach anything resembling a decent speed. Not as fluid as other 3D Marios due to speed and nerfed acrobatics. Terrible collectathon mechanics with five things to grab per level, including the really grindy, repetitive gold flag. Collectathon junk made worse with the timer. Homogenous, small, blocky levels makes all the levels blend together. Forced camera perspectives can mess up jumps in the challenging post-game levels.

So glad someone made a topic about this. This post says it all.

Too many times I fall because of cheap run button controls. I feel like it don't I have the precision control like galaxy or 64. Remember in galaxy 1 doing that level with the narrow block platforms that appear in space as you try to collect star fragments while time runs out? AWESOME. Controls were spot on.

3DW is lacking that consistent excitement, suspense, fluidity. Way too easy to misjudge jumps and throwing boomerangs etc also lacks that diagonal precision.

And what's that ink stamp thing for?

Really lacking in fluidity, though it's good fun. Solid 8/10 indeed.

 

[HK-47]

No. It's rated just right. In fact, Sunshine is underrated.

All of Sunshine's best shit is the utra linear levels spinning in the void.

 

[Ansatz]

This thread does a good job of highlighting the differences between 3D Marios!

I now understand the appeal of SM64 better, how the level design and moveset allows for creative freedom. It's a 3D sandbox platformer. Problem is I'm not into sandbox type games at all. I prefer tightly designed levels where the solution the developer intended is clear.

Not really a fan of "bring a powerup from other levels" that 3D World re-introduced. I remember many hated that the fire flower was limited in Galaxy. Thing is the levels weren't designed with it in mind so it would be pointless to have the powerup available outside of the sections it was meant for. I get more satisfaction playing the way a particular level was optimized for. For instance I always beat the game as Mario first, because his physics are the most neutral and the levels are tuned with him in mind. I wouldn't have felt like I was getting the "3D World" experience if I had started with say Peach first.

 

[Madao]

Two things:

1. You guys complaining about how Mario controls are bad at SM64. This is not the game's fault, it's your fault. He is capable of more than any other Mario in a 3D Mario game. See that gif above? You can't do that in any other 3D Mario. This is a fact.

Try playing more Mario 64 and getting more accustomed to how Mario controls. Once you get the hang of it, you will agree. Mario controls like a ninja, and when you have complete control over that, it's going to feel great. Until then, try watching a speed run.

2. Believe it or not, the camera is a similar case. It's not easy to control, but once you do learn how to control the camera in Mario 64, it's pretty damn good. I'll take a camera that requires precision and some weird inputs (c buttons and flipping between the Lakitu and Mario camera), over a camera that literally tells you "no fuck you, you can't adjust the camera right now", which is the case in Galaxy 1/2 and 3D World.

if you're going to take the speed running angle, then every Mario game after the N64 era is going to be shit next to SM64 and we could extend it to every game they make since they don't make games like back then.

Spoiler

SM64's camera is still shit. learning to wrestle clunky controls to get past them shouldn't be a positive. SM3DW's camera is shit too since it barely gives freedom. i want a freely controllable camera in these games.

 

[Ansatz]

if you're going to take the speed running angle, then every Mario game after the N64 era is going to be shit next to SM64 and we could extend it to every game they make since they don't make games like back then.

Spoiler

SM64's camera is still shit. learning to wrestle clunky controls to get past them shouldn't be a positive. SM3DW's camera is shit too since it barely gives freedom. i want a freely controllable camera in these games.

Why do you want a freely controllable camera in a Galaxy/3D World type of setting? There's nothing around the corners; the auto cam shows you everything there is to see in the game. At any one point you're standing on, 3D World gives you enough information about the surroundings for the platforming at hand. There is nothing gained in having the ability to peek ahead.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

And those are different from a gameplay perspective and in terms of how they unlock content. You don't need the Dragon Coins to see the final levels. You can entirely skip Sunshine's coin search.

Really? You can just skip Sunshine's red coin searches? Regardless, they're all still "collectathons", regardless of whether or not they're tied to anything interesting.

Galaxy's green stars are necessary to unlock content, but they represent the singular goal in a level when you enter it.

Except you usually still aren't told where they are. Unless they're tied to a goal, one still has to search through the level in a similar fashion to 3D Land - except that you have to run through each level a seperate time to get each one, and they're segmented off into half the game,

You're being purposefully obtuse when you attempt to conflate any past coin that can be collected with this very obvious and intentional three coin collection per each timed level. Your examples just don't function the same as they do across NSMB and 3D Land/World.

You're saying that all the previous coin collecting doesn't count because your reward is little more than a number. And maybe you prefer that, but they're collectathons all the same.

EDIT:

Fine. Here:

Iwata Asks



http://www.ign.com/articles/2011/10/29/resetting-super-mario-3d-land



Now, can we just agree that "three collectible coins per level, whereupon you collect a certain sum to unlock later levels" behaves differently as a gameplay mechanic from all that you've mentioned above? The developers clearly had this in mind.

"The reason we changed the name is that the Star Medals have the same function as the Stars in 3D Super Mario games up till now."

Ah, so you're saying that they act as the equivelant of the Stars and Shines from the previous 3D games, not the coins. Can we just agree that collectathons have been a Mario main-stay since 64?

 

[Solid Samus]

It's ambitious to take an existing template, expand it, and tack on multiplayer?

Sounds like most major AAA studios.

sometimes you can be really nonchalant about being reductive toward this game. it's okay to be disappointed by the end product and I understand your reasoning more and more by the day but can we stop pretending that multiplayer in a 3D platformer isn't a novel feature that isn't by definition ambitious considering the level and game design challenges that come with it (and have prevented it from cropping up anywhere else)? not to mention handwaving it off as a 'tacked on' feature as opposed to something the userbase will largely appreciate (not to mention quite fun and quite exploitable for co op hijinks)?
it's like saying halo 3's campaign co op was nothing but 'tacked on' (much less not ambitious whatsoever) when the mere act of playing with friends can meaningfully add to the experience - and that's a shooter, a genre where co op and competitive ideas had already been experimented with a fair amount at that point - as opposed to a genre where people don't touch the concept because the player's interaction with the game is at all times directly with the environment and what's in it (including other players), and yet with a good set of players playing 3DW almost every level feels equally well designed for single and multiplayer gameplay, and that's really no small feat imo.

 

[FSLink]

Why do you want a freely controllable camera in a Galaxy/3D World type of setting? There's nothing around the corners; the auto cam shows you everything there is to see in the game. At any one point you're standing on, 3D World gives you enough information about the surroundings for the platforming at hand. There is nothing gained in having the ability to peek ahead.

I do think thanks to the multiplayer aspect, the camera angle is usually zoomed out more and makes it harder to judge jumps, and without 3D like 3D Land, it can be more difficult for people to correctly line up jumps at times (though I adjusted over time while playing the game). I think they restricted the camera too much in 3D World, and should allow you to zoom in more at times, or allow you to move it more often especially in single player. I think in multiplayer it's generally fine though due to having to compromise being zoomed out more so you can see all the players.

 

[RagnarokX]

Mario isn't actually slower in 3D World than he is in any previous 3D Mario game.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Mario isn't actually slower in 3D World than he is in any previous 3D Mario game.

The acceleration is surely a lot slower.