• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

I really like Final Fantasy XIII's combat

Once the game allows you to actually use the combat engine it is absolutely great. I would argue one of the best around. However, yeah, the rest of the game is pretty abysmal.
 
I thought even the combat was one of the worst in the series. Though thinking back I guess some of that could have come from the fact that it came after 12 which I think has the best combat in any JRPG so I was just disappointed that they ditched that system and didn't try to evolve it further.

Music was the only great thing about the game imo.
 
I'm with ya, it was great, took a very long time to reach a level where it was fun, but then it took off. Can't blame people for not sticking around for that to happen though.

Better than FFXV combat which is essentially a hack n slash with horrible AI. It's pretty and fun to play but has zero depth.
 
The lag between switching combat roles in 13 makes combat a slog, especially since that's your only real strategic element in combat since everything else is press A to awesome.

13-2 improved on that aspect and made combat less cumbersome... But it didn't improve the mechanics.


Normal fights: switch to stagger build, press A a lot, win.

Boss fights: start with debuff and commando, once all debuffs done, replace debuffers with damage dealers, on stagger switch to all damage. Break for healing/synergist combo as needed, hope your stagger doesn't reset during it. Rinse, repeat. Win.

Sure, you can challenge yourself to find an optimal build for each boss to get a better score, but why?


Every aspect of ffxiii is an exercise in skill, it's in patience... And the ultimate pay off isn't worth it.
 
What I always found interesting about Final Fantasy XIII was how tightly the game controlled your leveling which kept the game challenging throughout. Due to how linear the majority of the game was and with the removal of random encounters, how many many enemies you ran into was strictly controlled which made grinding a chore. Until you got to Gran Pulse, you couldn't really grind to make the game easier. And even when you got to Gran Pulse, there was a level cap in place that would remain until you beat the game.
 
jackdoe said:
What I always found interesting about Final Fantasy XIII was how tightly the game controlled your leveling which kept the game challenging throughout. Due to how linear the majority of the game was and with the removal of random encounters, how many many enemies you ran into was strictly controlled which made grinding a chore. Until you got to Gran Pulse, you couldn't really grind to make the game easier. And even when you got to Gran Pulse, there was a level cap in place that would remain until you beat the game.
Click to expand...

This is honestly my favorite aspect of XIII's gameplay.

XIII-2 may have made small refinements to the gameplay, but all of those are lost because of the game's massive overleveling problem. If you enjoy the gameplay, you'll want to do side quests; if you do side quests, you'll become overleveled and ruin the gameplay. It sucks.

Another aspect of XIII that I liked was the distribution of strengths among the party members. Each member was distinct in what they brought to the table. Small changes (like swapping Hope for Vanille) could have a big impact on your gameplay. At the same time, each was similar enough that could take multiple different approaches to each fight; no party member was ever required.

A shame that it takes a while to unlock the ability to choose your party, but once you do it's really fun to craft unique strategies and paradigm sets, because the system has so much flexibility.
 
Best combat of the entire FF franchise easily imo

Replayed through the game 3 times just because of that, game just needed a "hunt" system like FFXV for me to be perfect, completing those secondary mission (can't recall the name) was a slog unfortunately but the only way to find powerful enemies outside of Adamantoise
 
Truth be told, I've never given my full opinion on FF13 and its iterations purely because I never finished the first game to begin with. The music is great, the battle system is enjoyable, but it was the endless corridors that truly put me off.

I plan to stomach my way through it to hit FF13-2 and maybe even Lightning Returns, but for the foreseeable future it isn't happening.

However I will gladly plant my flag and state that I enjoy the combat.
 
jackdoe said:
What I always found interesting about Final Fantasy XIII was how tightly the game controlled your leveling which kept the game challenging throughout. Due to how linear the majority of the game was and with the removal of random encounters, how many many enemies you ran into was strictly controlled which made grinding a chore. Until you got to Gran Pulse, you couldn't really grind to make the game easier. And even when you got to Gran Pulse, there was a level cap in place that would remain until you beat the game.
Click to expand...

Adaren said:
This is honestly my favorite aspect of XIII's gameplay.

XIII-2 may have made small refinements to the gameplay, but all of those are lost because of the game's massive overleveling problem. If you enjoy the gameplay, you'll want to do side quests; if you do side quests, you'll become overleveled and ruin the gameplay. It sucks.

Another aspect of XIII that I liked was the distribution of strengths among the party members. Each member was distinct in what they brought to the table. Small changes (like swapping Hope for Vanille) could have a big impact on your gameplay. At the same time, each was similar enough that could take multiple different approaches to each fight; no party member was ever required.

A shame that it takes a while to unlock the ability to choose your party, but once you do it's really fun to craft unique strategies and paradigm sets, because the system has so much flexibility.
Click to expand...

It's interesting because originally it was supposed to be even more extreme. Tsuchida talked about enemy placement early when FFXIII was in development, and his vision was to basically populate areas in the game like he did in strategy RPGs, which means instead of just random or symbol encounters which would reset endlessly, he wanted each and every enemy encounter populating the world to be unique. Each enemy you could encounter would be a uniquely placed encounter, and soldiers would have dogtags and stuff identifying who they were. Once you beat the encounter, it would never respawn again.

I think that vision went out of the window pretty quickly when they actually started making the game, lol.
 
I prefer 13 atb then the other iteration of those. It really feels modern and still hold the essence of atb.

but LR tho,as I said many times, that battle system deserve another
mainline
game
 
Rad- said:
I thought even the combat was one of the worst in the series. Though thinking back I guess some of that could have come from the fact that it came after 12 which I think has the best combat in any JRPG so I was just disappointed that they ditched that system and didn't try to evolve it further.
Click to expand...

I really liked the combat in 12. Maybe not the top tier best for me, But I certainly would welcome it back with open arms.
13's combat was a huge step away from it's predecessor.

13's combat felt like it was all flash and no bang.
It's like Tsuchida really enjoyed the over the top fighting in Advent Children and thought it was the way to go.
I think he was more focused on what it would be like visually than focusing on the substance and depth of a combat system.
 
FFXIII is still not a good game and does lot of things poorly.

Combat was not one of those things. It was excellent. Honestly, I'm a little excited for the remasters just to enjoy the combat again.
 
Somewhat surprised people liked it considering that it was the combat that finally made me stop playing. I endured the terrible writing and characters, the lacklustre exploration and everything else all the way to gran pulse before a fateful encounter in a field encapsulated my main frustration so neatly that I quit there and then.

During one fight against an enemy with relatively small AoE attacks, my entire party clustered around the tank. Changing paradigm or even selecting attacks that caused the characters to move a lot couldn't make them separate. They clung together within AoE range through thick and thin. If i could have at least moved my own character it would've freed me up enough on the healing that i could break out of the bare survival loop I was stuck in, but NOPE!
I never trust AI to make the right choice in most games (and as such I never used auto-battle in XIII) but the game forces you to rely on the AI not to stand in stupid locations. I wouldn't get that frustrated with AI movement again until the boss fight in Xenoblade Chronicles with acid pools that my teammates would keep standing in.

In fights where the godawful positioning didn't pose a problem, I found it too often boiled down to just gunning for the break and then wailing on the enemy punching bag.

To me a rewarding combat system is one where not only each enemy requires a unique approach, but where the simple act of mixing several enemies you may have already encountered together can often create a new 'puzzle' (something I praise Phantasy Star Online for a lot:I get a kick out of watching people trying to fighting the basic 'evil shark' enemies in Caves the same way they fought the somewhat similar looking 'boomas' in forest only to get smacked down during the 3rd hit of their combo)
I don't care about weird stuff like scores or ranks, so if there's a general strategy that always wins vs more optimal strategies for each enemy that might melt them down faster, for me (and I suspect a lot of players) I'm only going to see the general strategy in use and I'm going to blame the designer while I repeatedly do it :P
 
Yeah the combat in XIII is just marvelous. Superior to XV imo.

Too bad most stuff other than combat weren't great and because of that I will never play XIII-2 and LR.
 
SaniOYOYOY said:
I prefer 13 atb then the other iteration of those. It really feels modern and still hold the essence of atb.

but LR tho,as I said many times, that battle system deserve another
mainline
game
Click to expand...

Not just the battle system, the semi permanent world where you could decimate species was great. LR is easily my favorite of the trilogy, heck probably my favorite Ff from a gameplay/mechanisms point of view. Being the last of a not well liked trilogy really disserved it.
 
I liked the combat eventually but it takes a lot of time before it becomes interesting and there's little of the game left at that point.
 
I couldn't fully enjoy it because I wanted full control of my party actions. Sure the AI decisions are predictable and not a problem most of the time but I just end up missing being free to make my own mistakes.

And sorry guys but..I didn't like the soundtrack. It's not to my taste.
 
Aeana said:
I think you're oversimplifying. Battles being a cycle is one thing, but when it's the same cycle, it becomes worn by the end. It's the same thing with Xenoblade (IMO) where the goal is to break->topple->daze. It becomes monotonous after a while. In the case of FF13, the enemies that you can't do any damage to whatsoever until you stagger are the biggest chores to fight.

This actually reminds me of the change to shadow priest that World of Warcraft got in the latest expansion. They switched it so that you have to build up an "insanity" bar by doing regular (fairly weak) attacks, and then once it's maxed out, you can enter voidform and you do a lot of damage while the bar rapidly drains. This becomes exhausting after a while, and the ramp up time before you can actually do significant damage in battle becomes fairly boring.

Basically, it's one thing if this is one of many options, and another entirely if it's The Goal of every encounter.
Click to expand...

Perhaps as a reaction to this, Lightning Returns spices it up a bit by having monsters have different conditions/weaknesses that will activate their stagger state.



EDIT: My (remaster) dream: FFXIII with challenging side-quests littered through the game. FFXIII-2 with a balance/hard mode, make those improved mechanics matter. LR doesn't really need a ton of fixing, but perhaps having enemies scale with Lightning a little would be good.
 
Boss fights all go like this:

First buff/debuff
SYN/SYN/SYN
SAB/SAB/SAB

Then
RAV/RAV/RAV until shock
COM/COM/COM until end of shock

When boss is charging a huge attack
SEN/SEN/SEN

Then you probably need to heal
MED/MED/MED

Rinse and repeat until the end of the game.
So tactical
MNjfFdR8xDBo4.gif
 
hichanbis said:
Boss fights all go like this:

First buff/debuff
SYN/SYN/SYN
SAB/SAB/SAB

Then
RAV/RAV/RAV until shock
COM/COM/COM until end of shock

When boss is charging a huge attack
SEN/SEN/SEN

Then you probably need to heal
MED/MED/MED

Rinse and repeat until the end of the game.
So tactical
MNjfFdR8xDBo4.gif
Click to expand...
Well when you compare with...

HOLD CIRCLE TO WIN + SOMETIMES HEAL

Repeat forever.

Yeap it way more tatical.
 
hichanbis said:
Boss fights all go like this:

First buff/debuff
SYN/SYN/SYN
SAB/SAB/SAB

Then
RAV/RAV/RAV until shock
COM/COM/COM until end of shock

When boss is charging a huge attack
SEN/SEN/SEN

Then you probably need to heal
MED/MED/MED

Rinse and repeat until the end of the game.
So tactical
MNjfFdR8xDBo4.gif
Click to expand...

Sometimes you have to use summons, things don't always go like that, depends on the situation.

Did u know how i beat XV? Warp attack with Great Sword and spam healing items and you will never ever die.

Oh forgot to add the armigar spam.
 
I know people will shit on me for this but, as a product, FFXIII is a better game than FFXV.

FFXIII tells a complete story, you may hate the story and the characters but everything is fleshed out and as a product it has strong and complete production values.

FFXV on the other hand is a god damned mess.

It feels as if it is 2 games stitched together, one of them is a Monster Hunter MMO Final Fantasy filled with fetch quests in a barren open world full of lifeless characters, and the other part is a completely fucked up linear FFXIII version of FFXV, minus the actual part of making SENSE whatsoever.

By contrast FFXIII tells its story in great detail, it has a thing called "character development", a concrete lore and a much better pace overall.

FFXV takes some bold steps indeed but SE is completely unable to deliver on so many fronts. Just look at some baffling mistakes here... that fucking camera.... you create a decent action battle system and then you throw that god awful worst camera ever to appear in a fucking videogame ever... smh really...

So, yeah, burn me at the stake all you want, I consider FFXIII a much better and most importantly "honest" product, than FFXV.
 
I enjoyed the combat, but I wouldn't call it the best Final Fantasy combat system. It had some great ideas and systems. However, I felt that the battles were a bit of a grind so I won't really be returning to the game.

With XIII-2, they made the system more faster-paced, but they also stripped the difficulty, so they went too far in the other direction. Lightning Returns' battle system, however, was a pretty cool development.

Still, I enjoy XV's battle system more. The fights don't last very long and having full control makes up for not having control of the allies.
 
hichanbis said:
Boss fights all go like this:

First buff/debuff
SYN/SYN/SYN
SAB/SAB/SAB

Then
RAV/RAV/RAV until shock
COM/COM/COM until end of shock

When boss is charging a huge attack
SEN/SEN/SEN

Then you probably need to heal
MED/MED/MED

Rinse and repeat until the end of the game.
So tactical
MNjfFdR8xDBo4.gif
Click to expand...

Don't you only get access to about 3 or 4 paradigms at once? Genuinely can't remember.
 
Nope, I think the combat in FF13 is all style, no substance...and almost brainless to me.

Once you learn how to create a basic set up paradigms to react to the few rhythms combat takes in the game...there just isn't much to challenge me in the game. The combat is too fast to make selecting skills from their archaic lists an optimal way to play, and you can so easily correct a mistake that those turn to turn choices that had weight in previous entries are gone. It's also still slow enough that it's very easy to respond to dangers in combat, heal back up to full, and keep going. Buffs and especially debuffs were far more effective than I remember in other entries as well.

The stagger gauge over time just because an annoyance, some filter in the way before you get to do the real damage, which isn't hard to trigger...but just sucks up time over the course of the many fights you'll go through. The system starts out with little depth, and little is layered on as you go. The game wouldn't let you know it though, because it takes hours trying to tutorialize you on a combat system that should take less than an hour to explain.

I actively went out of my way to skip fights, ended the game under-leveled, and so few fights posed any challenge. Also, the one summon that is sentinel-based...what a boring waste of minutes I'll never get back.

I wish more reviewers had told me the combat would be such a shallow snore, because it seemed to get praised if anything.
 
hichanbis said:
Boss fights all go like this:

First buff/debuff
SYN/SYN/SYN
SAB/SAB/SAB

Then
RAV/RAV/RAV until shock
COM/COM/COM until end of shock

When boss is charging a huge attack
SEN/SEN/SEN

Then you probably need to heal
MED/MED/MED

Rinse and repeat until the end of the game.
So tactical
MNjfFdR8xDBo4.gif
Click to expand...

For FF standards, that's why more complex than press x to attack, while one member starts healing the others and other throws the ocasional AOE spell
 
AgentLampshade said:
Don't you only get access to about 3 or 4 paradigms at once? Genuinely can't remember.
Click to expand...

Honestly, you could combine some of those paradigm combinations, like just having MED/SEN/MED for the recovery period, before you go back to buff/debuffs or laying down more damage. I forget the exact amount you get, but it was always enough to respond to any kind of threat. Bosses just made me heal more often.
 
The combat and music was the saving grace for this game. The only gripe I had was how the Paradigms never saved. It was a hassle especially when they made you control other party members for story purposes. They improved the combat in FFXIII-2.
 
Ishida said:
I highly prefer XV and X-2's combat over it, but yeah, it's great.

EDIT: But it's NOWHERE close to being the best of any JRPG's. That's just crazy talk.
Click to expand...
Considering how button mashy FFXV combat is and how horrible the camera is I almost take this as an insult to the series
 
I really like FF13's combat too, it was the best part of the game. I'm with you OP.
 
What I loved about the combat

- Speed
- Style
- Smooth

What I disliked

- Stagger bar
- Air combos are dumb
- Lack of build variety, gear, crafting sucks
- Character building. Linear sphere grid knockoff
- Poor battle meta. Break, combo, repeat... change paradigms
- Redundant and useless abilities

So yea its a fun game either way and I WOULD have forgiven a lot of what I didnt like about the game if the combat had delivered past its initial setup
 
sibarraz said:
For FF standards, that's why more complex than press x to attack, while one member starts healing the others and other throws the ocasional AOE spell
Click to expand...

So true. You may prefer to have full control of your party because reasons, but for fuck's sake, don't try to pretend for a second that you are getting some deeper, more tactical experience compared to XIII.

Combat in most Final Fantasy games consists of choosing "attack" from a menu until everything dies, using an occasional potion or healing spell, and perhaps using an offensive spell if you want to 1-shot the entire enemy party (as opposed to the 1-shotting a single enemy with your basic physical attack). Boss battles are the same except you may use a buff spell or two (which are useless in non-boss battles because it's faster/easier to just attack until everything dies). And in the rare event you do face a challenge, it's easier to gain a few levels than it is to rethink your approach.

Contrast that with XIII:
- battles are far more dynamic, they're about gaining the upper hand, exploiting enemy weaknesses, and then opening up a can of whup ass, not just mindlessly attacking until you win
- all buff/debuff spells can be insanely useful and worthwhile even in non-boss battles
- every job has a distinct role in battle and all must be used to be good at the game
- party composition/paradigm setup has a ton of depth and importance to it
- you can't merely power level your way around a challenge, the answer is always in the way your party is setup
- the game rewards you for playing it well, not just for winning

XIII is not a perfect game by any means, but I would go as far as to say that it has the most challenging and strategic battle system in the main series.
 
ethomaz said:
Well when you compare with...

HOLD CIRCLE TO WIN + SOMETIMES HEAL

Repeat forever.

Yeap it way more tatical.
Click to expand...

Didn't know we were comparing XIII and XV.
I suppose it helps defending XIII to compare it to a lesser combat system, yeah...

However if you compare XIII's battle system with a JRPG that has a good battle system released in the previous gen (like Lost Odyssey, Resonance of Fate, The Last Remnant) it's actually pretty shitty.
 
shark sandwich said:
So true. You may prefer to have full control of your party because reasons, but for fuck's sake, don't try to pretend for a second that you are getting some deeper, more tactical experience compared to XIII.

Combat in most Final Fantasy games consists of choosing "attack" from a menu until everything dies, using an occasional potion or healing spell, and perhaps using an offensive spell if you want to 1-shot the entire enemy party (as opposed to the 1-shotting a single enemy with your basic physical attack). Boss battles are the same except you may use a buff spell or two (which are useless in non-boss battles because it's faster/easier to just attack until everything dies). And in the rare event you do face a challenge, it's easier to gain a few levels than it is to rethink your approach.

Contrast that with XIII:
- battles are far more dynamic, they're about gaining the upper hand, exploiting enemy weaknesses, and then opening up a can of whup ass, not just mindlessly attacking until you win
- all buff/debuff spells can be insanely useful and worthwhile even in non-boss battles
- every job has a distinct role in battle and all must be used to be good at the game
- party composition/paradigm setup has a ton of depth and importance to it
- you can't merely power level your way around a challenge, the answer is always in the way your party is setup
- the game rewards you for playing it well, not just for winning

XIII is not a perfect game by any means, but I would go as far as to say that it has the most challenging and strategic battle system in the main series.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your in depth opinion on the 13 system

I do not appreciate your off hand dismissal of everything else

Contrast with FF13? Gimme a break
 
XIII had great combat but it was executed so very poorly. They held your hand through most of the game not allowing you to take full advantage of it.

XIII-2 corrected this, but by then lots of people already formed their opinions about the game and the battle system never got the credit it deserved.
 
I love the combat on the first game, I actually dislike the changes they made on XIII-2, it was too fast and easy and as someone mention before it was too easy to power level and be a God, while on the first game even normal enemies could most of the time still be a threat, with bosses and some hunt missions is where the game shines, specially on those bosses with phases like the final boss where you had your buff/debuff phase and attack phase.

One of the very few games where buffing and debuffing were worth the time. And even at the end of the game where each character could fill every role they still had some unique skills and talents to bring them to the table for some battles, like for example only some characters can add an elemental type buff to your weapons.
 
Magnus said:
I have to disagree strongly. It practically ruined the game for me. I appreciated the fast pace of battle, but was infuriated at the stupid decisions AI was making for my party members all the time. Going from previous FFs to this one was brutal; losing fine control over party members' decisions was just awful.

I have a similar gripe with FFXV, but not to the same degree. You can't even issue specific tech/skill commands to characters in XIII aside from your leader, can you?
Click to expand...

NOPE. It is a loss of fine control over party members actions. They just execute what they want based on what paradigm they are in. You only directly control the actions of the party leader. Hence when the party leader dies it is game over. This game had one of the worst combat systems for me. All flash no substance that plays more like a rhythm game than a Final Fantasy with the whole Paradigm system. Success/Failure was more dependant on what Paradigms you had set up than your actual inputs along with the terrible stagger system that just inflated Health bars for enemies. Plus making you watch that first paradigm shift animation EVERY fight was as nauseating as any drawn out combat animation from FFIX.

I have the same issue with a lot of "party" rpgs lately. Taking away control of your party makes me wonder why we have a party at all. Just make solo experiences since the gameplay is going that way. The AI is usually brain dead and only serves to frustrate as it makes stupid decisions that I as the player am no longer able to manage. Worst offender ever was Xenoblade X. Dumb AI companions would just AE everything and pull in high level monsters. You had to actively set them to use single target only to not have this occur.
 
Delete Snow and Sahz and it will be a great FF! :D

Combat is very good, one of the best in the series, It's turn based with action (FFVII-R will be like this I think, but with more mobility)
 
Best Turnbased Combat ever. FF13 has an excellent combatsystem, where you have so much possibilites to do.
Fast pacing of the battle, switching paradigmas on the right time and finally usage of buffs and debuffs.

I adore this combatsystem, if they would have added enviromental change like in X then it would be perfect.
 
I've been playing XIII and XIII-2 these past few weeks and the battle system is definitely one of my favorites in the series. Biggest issue with XIII is that you can't take full advantage of it until at least the 20 hour mark.

Final Fantasy XII had everything I wanted in a battle system as well. Fully customizable and complete freedom of movement.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

  • Poll
What Final Fantasy Game Would You Like To See A "Compilation" Or Expanded?
2
91
643
Darkmakaimura replied
Final Fantasy X - 25th Anniversary
2 3 4
155
466
Signalis replied
Horizon XI |Retro OT| Lets all play Final Fantasy XI like it's 2004
|OT| 
45
1K
jshackles replied
Happy 27th To Final Fantasy VIII
2 3
111
1K
Rentahamster replied
Final Fantasy Games Now On GOG
6
501
paolo11 replied
Top Bottom