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I see everybody as liars.
- Thread starter Two Words
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Amusingly, entering any new social interaction with cognitive bias against the new party makes it harder to spot the people who are actually lying to you in your life. Trust a little more, but remain observant. This has the added benefit of not making you look like such a hostile shithead to new people and opens you up to friends and experiences otherwise unappreciated.
Remember: Skepticism is not fooling yourself into thinking you know if someone is good for you or bad, Cynicism is fooling yourself into thinking everyone will be bad. Skepticism is healthy and a useful tool for evaluating your situation, but Cynicism will always, always, always poison your soul. It's at least as ruinous for you in the long run as Naiveté, if not worse.
Remember: Skepticism is not fooling yourself into thinking you know if someone is good for you or bad, Cynicism is fooling yourself into thinking everyone will be bad. Skepticism is healthy and a useful tool for evaluating your situation, but Cynicism will always, always, always poison your soul. It's at least as ruinous for you in the long run as Naiveté, if not worse.
I understand that presumptuous advice can be offensive, but surely you understand why you will receive responses like that. The beginning two sentences in the OP are 1) asking if anybody else behaves the same way as you do, and 2) stating that you feel you might be too cynical. The implied message is that you are worried about whether this might be a problem, and people who admit their problems even if tacitly, through implicature usually want a solution to be offered by the person(s) they are admitting it to.
Further, no matter how presumptuous or fallacious, it is often wiser to judge intent rather than words.
fierrotlepou
Member
I fucking hate people that tell a story in an exaggerated way. Just tell it like it happened. As soon as you do this you're full of shit in my book. I find myself nodding to your story while you're telling it, but I'm not listening anymore. I see through your lies.
That's what they are: lies. You don't seem more interesting, you seem like an attention seeking scumbag.
Joe T.
Member
I generally expect the worst, easier to lead a happy life that way!
internetwolf
Banned
I agree OP
everyone around me is a fake, I've never met someone who keeps it as real as me
everyone around me is a fake, I've never met someone who keeps it as real as me
From a mental perspective, humanity is entirely built on unreliable, likely exaggerated stories. We call them memories. No one remembers anything "like it happened". We all remember a story that is shaded by our biases, our failures to observe certain facts and our overall worldview. Even you. Unless those exaggerations are somehow dangerous or damaging, they are harmless. Even if they are damaging, calling them out can be handled as a correction and not as decrying some sin that should taint the honor of the "liar". Someone with a habit of telling actual lies that are hurtful to themselves and others is someone that should be both pitied and avoided.
But sure, be sanctimonious about it. I'm sure that'll work like gangbusters.
It'll lead to a safe life, that's for sure. Happiness is not guaranteed at all.
You might have some guilt of having been a liar before and now have projected that onto everybody else? You mention self-preservation, so it could be a trust issue that you don't want others knowing too much about you.
What is your obsession with absolutes? We get it, you don't like absolutes!
I said I will lie for self-preservation. As in, I might lie to avoid consequences. I don't do it often, but I would be lying if I claimed I was above lying to avoid being punished. Typically, if I do something wrong, I'm probably going to be willing to lie to cover it up. If it was an accident of some kind, I will typically tell the truth. I try to be honest, but I know I'm not always honest.
This is another assumption, projection. What makes you think you're able to validate that I am projecting? Why should I take that advice seriously? It's not like you've really done any further probing to actually see if I'm projecting.
Yeah, I'll admit that it can be a cynical view. I try to be skeptical, but too much can lead to cynicism. I'll agree with that. And yeah, I do at times think "maybe I'm assuming they are lying too much". It happens. I wanted to gauge how others feel about this in their lives. But being cynical doesn't equate to social issues or projecting like the quote above yours in this post. I don't view that kind of advice helpful. I feel like if you're going to try and give somebody advice, you need to at least have some valid confidence behind what you are saying. Otherwise it's just a case of a blind man trying to give you directions. It doesn't matter if he's trying to be helpful. He's doing more harm than good.
there's a distinction to be made when it comes to lying: intent. There's evidence to suggest that every time someone tells a story, they change the underlying memories to form it into a cohesive narrative, and probably lying about parts in the process. It's just how memory works. It's incredibly unreliable, and people aren't doing it intentionally and are likely unaware of it happening. Sure, there are people doing it intentionally for one reason or another, but I'd bet they're in the vast minority and possibly more difficult to detect (except unless their stories don't change).
As someone else has pointed out, we construct our realities through imperfect memories and telling of stories. It's hard to ever fully reconstruct the "truth" in so many situations. So what does "trustworthy" even mean? How would you describe such a person? Someone with a good memory? Someone who doesn't change their story? Someone whose stories align with what you want to hear?
As someone else has pointed out, we construct our realities through imperfect memories and telling of stories. It's hard to ever fully reconstruct the "truth" in so many situations. So what does "trustworthy" even mean? How would you describe such a person? Someone with a good memory? Someone who doesn't change their story? Someone whose stories align with what you want to hear?
Yeah, but I think most people that lie in those situations know they are doing it and are choosing to add some flavor to their story.
In what situations?
I think you're assuming people are consciously aware of all the things that they're doing. IME, people just incorporate all sorts of patterns they observe in various groups into their behaviors, and are often not even aware of it. They may have been at one point, but then it quickly just becomes habit.
Seconded.
As I've said, I'm talking about situations where people say things that are hard to believe. These tend to be situations that don't get mistakenly remembered or something.
Goldenroad
Member
What's worse; cynicism or naivety? Both are pretty negative character traits, however, being cynical will probably work out better for you at the end of the day.
This presumes there is not middle ground, which isn't true. Skepticism lies between the two and is far preferable to either. Life is not black and white.
Beyond that, I am not at all convinced that cynicism is a better coping mechanism for life than naïveté. I think people vastly underestimate the damage an air of distrust does to their interpersonal relationships. People are not nearly as opaque as they believe. If human beings worked like cold, hard physics you might have a point. They don't though.
Cynicism in general is, as far as I've seen, an emotional cancer. It's fucking stupid that we've decided that being disaffected and unengaged makes you look cool or smart. A general newsflash to the internet: emotional intelligence is not a myth. Cutting yourself off from engagement and the danger of getting your feelings hurt doesn't make you smart. That shit is a natural part of life and maturing into a developed person. You can't learn anything without making mistakes, after all. What it does make you is a self-amputee. It cuts you off from a vast well of human experience and you are lesser for it.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I lie very, very rarely. It makes for some awkward small talk.
But I'm probably seen as a liar by a lot of people I don't know very well just because my life is more interesting than theirs.
But I'm probably seen as a liar by a lot of people I don't know very well just because my life is more interesting than theirs.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
No offense, but people that don't trust anyone are sociopaths.
There's a difference between being realistic and thinking everyone else is a shit.
But what's worse than people that think everyone is lying? People that think misunderstandings or someone not being able to keep their word or do something is lying.
There's a difference between being realistic and thinking everyone else is a shit.
But what's worse than people that think everyone is lying? People that think misunderstandings or someone not being able to keep their word or do something is lying.
I didn't say I cont trust anybody. I didn't say I think everybody always lies. I said I feel that just about everybody lies at times and I find it hard to believe people when they say hard to believe things.
I know it's counter-intuitive from where you're standing, but sometimes you just have to trust people anyway. We all have to accept at some point that we will never be omniscient and that the decisions we make will be made on limited, unreliable data. Also that whether we choose to believe another person really matters to that person in most cases.
Maybe ask yourself, "What harm would it actually do me to believe this?"
If the answer is "Make me look silly" or anything short of "Put myself or a loved one in danger in some way" you're probably wasting your time remaining suspicious of someone when you could just accept it for the moment and try to figure out how an unlikely thing could be possible and/or wait for something that disproves the statement. Liars are inconsistent. Just because you choose to trust someone in the moment doesn't mean you don't reserve the right to change your mind later. Just let it go for now, but maybe leave a mental bookmark there for later.
Like, if someone is asking you to put down money for something shady, obviously don't do that. If they are asking you to trust them that you should be doing something that could be harmful to yourself or others, pumping the breaks and asking for proof is totally justified. If they're asking you to believe that a crazy thing happened to them over the weekend though, what do you lose by going along with it?
The reason why this is important is because distrustful people come off looking like jerks. It's purely a detriment to you socially to approach people from a stance of distrust. Bonds developed between other people are pretty much universally bonds of trust and understanding. Sometimes to make those, you have to run the risk of losing face.
You don't have to, no one is making you. But I can guarantee you will miss out on friends you would've otherwise had and experiences you otherwise would've cherished. It's taken me a long time to realize this stuff and what I'm telling you right now is the shit I wish someone had told me a long time ago.
Trust more, be afraid less. In the long run, it will make you a better person.
You can choose to believe that or not, I guess.
Herbspiceguy
Member
I used to be very cynical and thought many ppl were liars and hypocrites during my angsty teenage phase.
Now I don't care and being cynical sabotaged me in achieving what I wanted in life.
Now I don't care and being cynical sabotaged me in achieving what I wanted in life.
PhantomZone
Member
I used to like and give myself (as in time, energy, effort, attention) to everyone.
Sadly I have been taken advantage of so many times over the years (starting from when I was a teenager) that I am less trusting than I used to be. Over time I would gradually stop going out of my way for everyone, and just a select group of people.
I'm also less trusting when it comes to relationships, having been left broken hearted I am putting up a huge wall around myself as I don't want to let my guard down and be deceived again.
Sadly I have been taken advantage of so many times over the years (starting from when I was a teenager) that I am less trusting than I used to be. Over time I would gradually stop going out of my way for everyone, and just a select group of people.
I'm also less trusting when it comes to relationships, having been left broken hearted I am putting up a huge wall around myself as I don't want to let my guard down and be deceived again.
Messofanego
Banned
The fuck kind of fun "facts" are you getting from people? lol
Icyflamez96
Member
can you tell me how you were raised in the first 3 years of your life
...
That line of questioning is kinda getting into armchair diagnosis territory, isn't it?
Unbound By Death
Member
About what?
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
I don't believe you.
Astral Dog
Member
I think you are telling lies, Two Words you dont see everybody as liars
SolicitorPirate
Member
Out of curiosity, what do you mean by "things that are hard to believe"?
This is incredibly vague.
BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO
Junior Member
Good.
Battlechili
Banned
No, not at all. On the contrary, I assume almost everything told to me by others is them being truthful. I believe that I would be committing a wrong to assume bad things about others without even knowing them or much about what they say. I feel its insulting to others to assume they're liars, not to berate you of course OP. I just don't like the idea of doing that and don't. Why should I assume someone is lying to me about themselves, even if it sounds a little ridiculous? This doesn't mean that I believe everything people tell me of course, and I'll try to verify something if it can be checked, but otherwise I see little reason to assume people around me are liars.
To name a few things:
If somebody is talking about their crazy sex life unsolicited
If somebody talks about how they won a fight in some crazy situation
If somebody says something that really boasts their qualifications when they don't really show to have those qualifications
If somebody often has a story to 1up whatever the conversation is
If somebody talks about a crazy/unlikely event
If somebody claims to know somebody of fame
Messofanego
Banned
These are pretty regular things, though. A conversation will trigger your memory of a similar story from your head so you'll have something to "1up" the thread.
Knowing someone of fame is normal. Those famous people are also still humans with social connections, from childhood times before they got famous, school, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if someone from UK-GAF knew John Boyega of Attack The Block/Star Wars fame because they happened to live in Peckham like him. He went to see the movie at his local cinema.
I'd get it if someone was talking like Jay from Inbetweeners about his sexploits
, but it becomes pretty obvious that they're bullshitting on scrutiny. In fact, you can just ask them to go into detail (like about the qualifications), and if they slip up one detail, you've caught them out.
PulseONE
Member
Should have been on page 1
We are all liars. I heard a statistic on the radio, probably about 8 years ago, that people lie something like 4 times a day on average. My guess is that people can easily lie without realizing it, if it's a white lie. And then there are the harmless lies that peoole tell to protect their image.
The lies you seem to be talking about OP, and I doubt all of them are lies, are a little strange. I wish I could tell you why people feel the need to lie like that, but you must understand that most people are not like that, though I do believe people embellish quite often.
Two stories, both true.
1.) my wife works with a fellow who is known around the office for being a liar. They are harmless lies, but they are always intended to make the guy look good. Pretty much every one of his stories, he turns out to be the hero. Her coworkers think it's funny/sad because although he is a big guy, he has a lot of physical ailments.
2.) apparently my great grandfather was quite the liar. Not for any personal gain other than to amuse himself and the people around him. It's rubbed off on some of my family members, I think it's a good thing. My great grandfather used to put a stuffed boar out in the field next to his house when we, me and my siblings, were kids. He said that as long as we looked at it, it would not move. When we'd go inside, he'd move it to a different part the field. He also drilled holes in some of the trees around his house and stick lollipops in the tree. He used to tell us that we had to pee on the tree to make the lollipops grow. Finally, one time fishing in Rhode Island, he lived in Mass, he was interviewed by a reporter and my great grandfather made of some bs about fishing in that spot every year with his sons. It ended up in the newspaper, but it was bologna.
Even that last story could be BS, my second cousin told it and he is a lot like my great grandad. But hearing that last story was real, my second cousin told it at my great grandfather's wake.
The lies you seem to be talking about OP, and I doubt all of them are lies, are a little strange. I wish I could tell you why people feel the need to lie like that, but you must understand that most people are not like that, though I do believe people embellish quite often.
Two stories, both true.
1.) my wife works with a fellow who is known around the office for being a liar. They are harmless lies, but they are always intended to make the guy look good. Pretty much every one of his stories, he turns out to be the hero. Her coworkers think it's funny/sad because although he is a big guy, he has a lot of physical ailments.
2.) apparently my great grandfather was quite the liar. Not for any personal gain other than to amuse himself and the people around him. It's rubbed off on some of my family members, I think it's a good thing. My great grandfather used to put a stuffed boar out in the field next to his house when we, me and my siblings, were kids. He said that as long as we looked at it, it would not move. When we'd go inside, he'd move it to a different part the field. He also drilled holes in some of the trees around his house and stick lollipops in the tree. He used to tell us that we had to pee on the tree to make the lollipops grow. Finally, one time fishing in Rhode Island, he lived in Mass, he was interviewed by a reporter and my great grandfather made of some bs about fishing in that spot every year with his sons. It ended up in the newspaper, but it was bologna.
Even that last story could be BS, my second cousin told it and he is a lot like my great grandad. But hearing that last story was real, my second cousin told it at my great grandfather's wake.
LookAtMeGo
Member
I tend to believe people. Unless the lie is something that could potentially cause me personal harm or the lie is to gain something material from someone, I find it rather pointless to question ones honesty. I dont believe everything though. Sometimes its pretty easy to pick up on a lie. Its much easier to do in person than over text in the interweb. I have a lot of crazy stories to tell and I'm sure some people think I'm full of shit when I tell them. Thats why I'm not always so quick to call bullshit on peoples stories.
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