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I think all current generaton games should focus on locked 60fps above all else.
- Thread starter Gamer79
- Start date
Roxkis_ii
Member
I think most people understand what they are sacrificing. When you change the setting in HFW to prefer framerate, you see the difference in the visuals of the game. I find the higher framerate worth it. I understand that their are people who perfer pretty visuals, and I hope they keep that option there for people who want it, BUT If one of those options isn't 60 Fps, I'm not interested.
Whitecrow
Banned
If you, and those who think like you, still dont know that even if the transition from 60 to 30fps is jarring your brain adapts to it after a while, you may just be internet warriors.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
The fact that this year's GOTY will most likely be a game running on a potato at 30 fps, rather gives lie to the idea that 60 fps is something that a game has to run at.
The game matters more than the framerate, and the technology that runs it.
The game matters more than the framerate, and the technology that runs it.
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22:22:22
NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
22:22:22
NO PAIN TRANCE CONTINUE
See! Fuck still sleepy text based interpretation haha
And for the record i wasn't looking to start an argument. I just wanted to see if you would reply.
All love brother.
Gorgon
Member
Back at ya, bro.
cireza
Member
People who love 30fps should simply buy a Switch and let others have games that you can actually look at for more than 3 minutes without having eyestrain.
As good as a game can be, if rotating the camera makes it an horrible blurry mess, then that's a no for me. Not going to kill my eyes trying to decipher shit in blurry poop for 40 hours.
As good as a game can be, if rotating the camera makes it an horrible blurry mess, then that's a no for me. Not going to kill my eyes trying to decipher shit in blurry poop for 40 hours.
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SeraphJan
Member
He is strawmanning, making extreme and easier-to-defeat examples to invalidate an otherwise legit point
Gorgon
Member
That describes Cyberpunk 2077 in "quality/rt mode" pretty well on my PS5. 30 fps "eye candy" my ass.
oji-san
Banned
I do. but why not both?
30fps mode with all the goodies you can throw should be there, and a performance mode with 60fps with lower setting/res should to, i personally only used the 60fps option, even in games like Guardians of the Galaxy which is 1080p at the 60fps mode, played it in that mode and had a blast on Series X. I wish this will keep going like that as much as possible.
30fps mode with all the goodies you can throw should be there, and a performance mode with 60fps with lower setting/res should to, i personally only used the 60fps option, even in games like Guardians of the Galaxy which is 1080p at the 60fps mode, played it in that mode and had a blast on Series X. I wish this will keep going like that as much as possible.
HazukiSensei
Banned
Well HFW is a bad example because it was built to work on ps4. So the difference in visuals are similar to rdr2 ported to PC or something. Theres a big difference between that, and 30 fps on a game built ground up for ps5 or a 3080 which only like...one game has done this gen.
The former just adds more post processing effects and calls it a day.
Its almost like we think that maxxed out rdr2 is peak graphics on a 3 series card rendering wise. We had cross gen titles in 2008 running the same framerate as crysis for example. Now thats the norm.
Look we are trying it your way this gen and prioritizing framerate...and guess what, the gen kinda sucks. Most of you guys' "taste" led to an underwhelming generation because we dont know how to decipher when pushing things works anymore. This isnt working.
[Rant] We all want mindless sandboxes where its "gameplay first" (a.k.a. im too ADD for a story), a.k.a "only FROM games and BOTW games matter" so people think 60 fps is necessary, because pretty much it seems like thats all the casuals want these days. But I digress.
HazukiSensei
Banned
Because games on console that offer performance modes like that typically operate like ports. They arent typically the games that push graphical boundaries. I'll be shocked if hellblade 2 has those options for example. PC sure, but console? Ehh
HazukiSensei
Banned
So when you play uncharted 2 on ps3 right now it'll be an eye sore to play? C'mon. Were you 5 years old that gen or something? Make it make sense
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BootsLoader
Banned
Gorgon
Member
Dunno about Uncharted 2. Uncharted 1 was enough for me back on the PS3. Do you have any other examples?
Gamer79
Predicts the worst decade for Sony starting 2022
Again I am sick of this same argument.
Nintendo is the one exception. They are fuckin wizards. BOTW runs sub 30fps but they work their magic and make it seem much more smooth. Any other developer does not have that capability. Yes Nintendo can make a 30fps game seem silky smooth but almost no other developer can. I even mentioned in the OP that Nintendo is the 1 enigma.
MatrixReloaded101
Member
If framerate is important to you, Buy a PC and stop whining.
Bulletbrain
Member
Every single time a poll is raised on this matter, 60fps/framerate preference ALWAYS wins. And by a good margin. Every single game that the 30fps worshipers bring up (such as TOTK) will be objectively better at higher framerates. It's almost as if the 30fps worshippers forget that gaming is supposed to be an interactive medium rather than a purely visual one.
Thank God they are a dying breed.
Thank God they are a dying breed.
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oji-san
Banned
Framerate is some exclusive magical PC feature?
I see this opinion sometimes and don't quite get it, i love playing on consoles and not PC, the last 3 years showed that PS5/XSX is strong enough to have at least a 1080p 60fps option on most games, why shouldn't we want our beloved consoles to have that mode? Are console bound forever to 30fps? Nothing personal ofc but try to understand that some players don't like to game on PC or doesn't have a powerful enough PC and there's nothing wrong to expect devs to give more options to console players.
GAF polls don't correspond to the reality of the market.
Bonfires Down
Member
I only see 30 fps absolutists whining here. Why would 60 fps gamers be whining when they already have what they want?
Chinpoko_Master
Member
60fps should be standard for all console games. It's important to maximize how responsive a game feels, and building a game to run at 60 fps prioritizes that since 60hz is the maximum refresh rate of most displays.
I hope someday that 120hz displays become standard and 120fps becomes the new standard for framerate for console games, but I may be dreaming.
I hope someday that 120hz displays become standard and 120fps becomes the new standard for framerate for console games, but I may be dreaming.
supernova8
Banned
Lol what a kick in the teeth for people who bought into this generation then.
"Hey guys sorry we're skipping "new stuff" this generation, you'll have to wait until neeeeeeext-gen for the really new stuff... but in the meantime thanks for that $500, much appreciated!"
If Naughty Dog had to target 60fps, we probably never would have had the visual leap that was Uncharted 4 last gen.
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NightmareFarm
Member
It's a bummer but still better than playing everything at 30fps. 8th gen already feels primitive because of that despite graphics being the same.
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MatrixReloaded101
Member
The reality is most console gamers prefer and value 4K over 60 FPS.
Sony and MS is to blame a bit because they have been pushing 4K since the PS4 Pro and Xbox one X was released and because of this people went out and got 4K TVs and now some people are asking devs to scrape 4K and go back to 1080p so they can get 60 FPS? ….This isn’t going to happen with all games.
In order to create these different modes, it will require a lot of resources which is why all the different modes are rarely available at launch and devs have to make a decision on which mode to focus on at launch and 4K/30 FPS usually ends up winning because of what I mentioned above. Also if you want those “next-gen” graphics that will come at a cost on console given their current specs.
If you want to ensure that most of the future games you want to play have all the modes you want like 60 FPS+ it just makes sense to go the PC route now or wait until the pro/next consoles are released.
Lucifers Beard
Member
This will always be the right answer. The game itself is what matters. I can deal with 30fps, just make sure the game controls well and it’s good.
There’s no excuse to not make 30fps control well when games like ToTK and Destiny 2 (previous gen) do it so well.
FunkMiller
Gold Member
So the problem is not 30 fps, but shitty devs. Which is a whole other argument.
oji-san
Banned
Don't know what most players want, don't think there's a way to say what most want.
It's not rare to see game with multi options for graphics/performance modes on consoles the last 3 years and i think that many of the games i played had options like that. It's not a huge expectation to hope the current way of handling 60fps on consoles will continue.
Anyway the way you replied now is more logic to me then call people who want the performance modes options to continue to go only PC, yes PC will give you much more but for various reasons it's not for everyone and like i already said.. the last almost 3 years i played perhaps 1 or 2 games at 30fps and all the rest was 60fps on PS5/XSX, it can be done and it was awesome and i hope it will continue.
Whitecrow
Banned
Thanks to not being a dick over 60 fps we had:
-Zelda OOT
-FF X
-Super Mario 64
-Motorstorm
-GoW 2018
-TLOU
-Uncharted
-Journey
-Shadow of the colossus
-Xenoblade
-Bloodborne
...
I'll tell you what.
Being able to achieve your vision as a creator/designer is the most important thing.
So if you want devs sacrificing it because you cant stand a few minutes of adapting to lowrer framerate, just gtfo and close the door. We dont need you.
-Zelda OOT
-FF X
-Super Mario 64
-Motorstorm
-GoW 2018
-TLOU
-Uncharted
-Journey
-Shadow of the colossus
-Xenoblade
-Bloodborne
...
I'll tell you what.
Being able to achieve your vision as a creator/designer is the most important thing.
So if you want devs sacrificing it because you cant stand a few minutes of adapting to lowrer framerate, just gtfo and close the door. We dont need you.
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HazukiSensei
Banned
Uncharted 1 was mid. Uncharted 2 was made that game look like a start up company, you should play u2, its better than tlou.
God of war 2,3, metal gear 4, etc pretty any great game that released at 30 fps
HazukiSensei
Banned
THANK YOU.
He gets it. I dont know where these guys came from that THINK they know what they are talking about, but they are terrible for the medium. We have it their way now, and look...its mid. Visions are mediocre and reduced. The 60 fps focus sucks. This gen is proof of it.
Those gamers along with the fromsoft/botw fans like nakey jakey and dunkey who dont like stories or pacing and only want a sandbox where they can do fuck all "gameplay first" are fucking up the medium also.
Gorgon
Member
Thank you for the suggestions.
Anyway, my point is this: it's a matter of diminishing returns. The difference between 30 pfs and 60 fps tends to be quite substantial in gameplay (unlike going from 60 to 120 fps, imo) for the majority of cases. On the other hand, what you get in return for that 50% decrease in framerate is, in most cases, insubstantial. In fact, I can't think of single game with both modes in which going for 30 fps instead of 60 fps actually produces a substantial increase in visual quality. In all cases I've seen it just amounts to strained-eye, side-by-side comparisons on the likes of Digital Foundry. So, personaly, I'll take the 60 fps virtually allways.
But that's me; it's OK to disagree.
oji-san
Banned
Not sure your examples are correct as you are talking about games that were released on a weaker system so ofc they were limited to 30fps and sometimes even not reaching that.
If i take Hogwarts Legacy or Horizon Forbidden West or other numerous games, they have a performance mode on consoles and i don't see their vision crippled or something. I don't see the point with comparing games that were built for weaker systems.. The PS5 and Series X proved they can handle 60fps with some compromises like reduced resolution/effects, the most difficult game to achieve 60fps was A Plague Tale Requiem.. people said it will be unable to achieve 60fps with the amount of rats, a performance mode later was added and i regret not waiting for it.
Those systems are good enough to have a 60fps option and if there's lack of good games it's not because of this reason.
Games of Today
Member
1440p, 60fps needs to become the standard. WITHOUT ray traced reflections. Save that for 30fps fidelity mode.
RT Global illumination should be much more important than reflections.
RT Global illumination should be much more important than reflections.
N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
60fps has its place but mostly it’s BS. The Order 1886 would never have been as cinematic in 60fps……
Whitecrow
Banned
The thing is, doesnt matter how powerful consoles are, there's never enough to realize their vision at its fullest.
We have 30 fps because it allows devs to get closer to it while mantaining the game in a playable state.
Of course theres power to get 60 fps.
But the last word is on the devs and how much of their vision are willing to sacrifice to achieve it.
To indie devs who just want to get their game out, maybe it does not matter, but for AAA studios with hundreds of people, that are able to keep pushing the boundaries, its normal for them to make that compromise.
It does not matter what some people say, some games are more than things you just play.
If you check Uncharted 4 for example, half the game story telling comes from the art and level design themselves.
Artists also like to see their work shine, and sometimes, it adds to the immersion and world building even more than framerate.
But as I said, if people are still stuck on all that matters is gameplay, no wonder we have this type of threads.
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oji-san
Banned
Sorry not sure i follow what you say tbh, i just don't see what framerate gotta do with art etc, R&C Rift Apart has both great art and gameplay.. if the devs are talented then there's no limit to what they can do. And btw 60fps also is not only a gameplay thing but also make the game looks better in motion especially on OLED. I guess i just don't see the connection between having a powerful enough system that allows you to have performance modes to games that have less good art/setting/story.
Whitecrow
Banned
Of course there's a limit to what they can do.
It's true that with this current gen consoles, we got close to diminishing returns, and there's enough power to achive incredible things already, but there's always, and I mean, ALWAYS, something more you could throw in.
We have great tech, but still, it lags far behind of what devs could imagine and create if there's was no concern about fps.
Foliage for example, still being kind of a problem even for UE5, in exteriors almost all games on console cut them fairly close. The same goes for shadows, lot of games are still plagued with awful shadow popin.
Ray traced illumination, ray traced audio, dynamic time of day and weather, great NPCs looking natural like humans instead of dolls, destruction physics on buildings, great context dependent animations, better AI...
Can you achieve great results on current consoles? Yes
There's room for more if power could allow it? Absolutely yes.
FoxMcChief
Gold Member
In a perfect world, I’d want all my PS5/Series X titles to run 60fps @ 4k. No resolution scaling or whatever. Both locked. Then do the best you can with the visuals after.
I hate having to decide witch I want more, better frame rate with scaled down resolution and visuals, or better resolution with better visual bells and whistles, but at a lower frame rate. I swear to fucking god, I’ve gone back and forth with performance mode in Dead Space on the PS5, and it sucks. I feel like I’m losing out either choice I make.
I prefer the days when a developer made their game with one focused outcome.
I hate having to decide witch I want more, better frame rate with scaled down resolution and visuals, or better resolution with better visual bells and whistles, but at a lower frame rate. I swear to fucking god, I’ve gone back and forth with performance mode in Dead Space on the PS5, and it sucks. I feel like I’m losing out either choice I make.
I prefer the days when a developer made their game with one focused outcome.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Those target 60fps, even 1 and 2 on PS2.
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Salty Popsicle
Banned
Depends on the game. If you're making an FPS or a competitive racer, then 60FPS should be the target without question. Action/Adventure games like Star Wars: Jedi Survivor or the upcoming Indiana Jones can get away with 30FPS as long as it's locked and the visuals are impressive. I will always prefer a locked 30FPS over a half-assed "performance mode' where framerate varies between 40FPS and 50FPS every time I pan the camera.
Salty Popsicle
Banned
That means the 60fps mode will look even more visually underwhelming than what we saw. Expect shorter draw distances and lower quality assets like most games that offer a "performance mode".
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