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[Vash63]

I loved it. Best level design I've ever played in an immersive sim. Prey had a cooler story but Dishonored 2 had much more interesting and deep level design and enemy AI. I'd say between the two D2 was the better game.

Also, Prey had probably the worst sound mix ever on headphones. Dishonored 2 didn't bother me.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

100% agree. I think its brilliant in what it is trying to convey. While yes, it would be fun to go on a murderous rampage through the entire game...that actually has consequences.

While it could be viewed as limiting, I think it is a very pointed way to making what you do in the game have consequence. We are always complaining that choices and things don't really matter in games (ala Bethesda games and such). Here we have it. Thoughout the entire experience to the way you play the game.

Yep, and now people complain about that too. lol

The chaos system is great, even if it's not perfect, and the people whining about being "punished" make me laugh. Having a different cut scene and the world react to your actions isn't the game punishing you, jesus.

 

[BruceCLea]

Gonna pick it up for XBX

 

[FallenGrace]

I'm trying to get through this now - love and adore the first game and platinumed it (got never seen, no kill and no powers used achievements on first playthrough).

I fire this up to tackle it the same way, but found out if you reject the Outsider's powers you don't even get a traversal spell, which just feels really lame to me.

I haven't been able to get off the boat because of this. Can someone convince me? I love D1 and was so happy to fire this up until that.

Let me get this straight. You are complaining about not getting into the game because you chose, optionally, to have no powers, and then find it lame, you have no powers.

The obvious solution is to replay the start and choose to keep the powers no? This can't be that complicated to work out XD

 

[SoulClap]

The level design in the Clockwork Mansion is incredible. Definitely one of my favorite games this gen. I really wish the frame pacing issues in the PC version were resolved.

 

[d00d3n]

The game is a bit too similar to Dishonored 1 to be considered a timeless classic imo. The main point of differentiation compared with that game is the ability to select between two characters, but that choice doesn't enhance the concept much or at all. Open world immersive sim in Mankind Divided was a much more impressive step forward for the genre in that year imo. Still, the first Karnaca level, the clockwork mansion and the time travel level have some of the best immersive sim level design I have ever experienced

 

[The Albatross]

I agree I think it's one of the best games of this generation. Definitely in a top 3 for me, and arguably my top game of the generation, but I have some wiggle room for other great games.

 

[TheRed]

I love the world and level design. Too bad the story was really bad, could've really been a masterpiece if the story was better.

 

[Iscariot]

Maybe it's because, as I mentioned, I went right from the DLC but like... it was very weird to have this whole big thing around Delilah (where going by the DLC she's lying about being Emily's aunt, though I'm sure something in the next few levels might explain it) and this big scene where she strolls in all formal and then... used her witch powers anyway. The witch powers were really cool and threatening and a little scary in the DLC; here the fight scene was weirdly framed, as far as I remember? And nothing particularly imposing happened. It was just a big disappointment after the DLC built her up as a character.

I agree the opener is the weakest part of it. But... And maybe this is just my relationship to games... Talking about story in a videogame is like talking about it in a porno, it's hardly the raison d'etre. Maybe that's not entirely fair, maybe it's more important in a cinematic game like an Uncharted, but Dishonored falls more on the XCOM side of things to me. There's an overarching A to Z plot that provides context and motivation, but otherwise it's all about environment, character flourishes, world building, and moment to moment gameplay creating story. So while I definitely get that the top level plot of DLC Witch Foozle ganks your shit and you flee to the jewel of the south is straight pants... The micro stories of Crack in the Slab, or even certain districts of Karnaca, or people like Jindosh are pretty great.

 

[xviper]

Dishonored 2 was okay, it's too much of the same, the game was forgotten upon release

did you guys know that they released a stand alone Dishonored 2 DLC about 2 weeks ago ? yeah, i didn't know about that too

 

[Remachinate]

Dishonored 2 was okay, it's too much of the same, the game was forgotten upon release

did you guys know that they released a stand alone Dishonored 2 DLC about 2 weeks ago ? yeah, i didn't know about that too

At least half of the people in this thread probably picked up the DLC day 1, and the OT for the DLC is at 10 pages. Dishonored is probably never going to have the mass appeal of a BotW or Horizon, but it's a quality series, and definitely not forgettable. If any studio is going to be remembered for carrying the torch of immersive sims, it's Arkane.

 

[fantasyGG]

You're entitled to your opinion but I think it's way overblown.


Your opinion of you liking the second over the first game is fine but to call it a masterpiece..lol.

You sound like a hypocrite...

 

[Interrobang]

Let me get this straight. You are complaining about not getting into the game because you chose, optionally, to have no powers, and then find it lame, you have no powers.

The obvious solution is to replay the start and choose to keep the powers no? This can't be that complicated to work out XD

No, that isn't the problem.

The reason I fell in love with D1 was the challenge of only completing it with traversal power. It's odd now that it's either all or nothing (including just that). I understand I can just actively choose to only use traversal, but liked the included in-game approved challenge of only using Blink.

 

[Bronetta]

Dishonored 2 was okay, it's too much of the same, the game was forgotten upon release

did you guys know that they released a stand alone Dishonored 2 DLC about 2 weeks ago ? yeah, i didn't know about that too

I picked up Death of the Outsider and its just as amazing as the rest. Got 11 hours out of it and Missions 2 and 3 stack up to the best the series has to offer.

Arkane Studios is amazing, cant wait to see what they do next.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

No, that isn't the problem.

The reason I fell in love with D1 was the challenge of only completing it with traversal power. It's odd now that it's either all or nothing (including just that). I understand I can just actively choose to only use traversal, but liked the included in-game approved challenge of only using Blink.

Wasn't the Blink only thing just an achievement in D1? Is it seriously just the lack of a dedicated named achievement preventing you from playing D2 with Blink only?

With D2 they specifically designed the game to allow for complete no-powers playthroughs after seeing the popularity of things like Blink only in D1. I'm not sure that D1 can even be completed without blink.

Seems to be that they went the extra step farther in D2 so its bizarre to seem them criticized for it.

 

[Remachinate]

Wasn't the Blink only thing just an achievement in D1? Is it seriously just the lack of a dedicated named achievement preventing you from playing D2 with Blink only?

With D2 they specifically designed the game to allow for complete no-powers playthroughs after seeing the popularity of things like Blink only in D1. I'm not sure that D1 can even be completed without blink.

Seems to be that they went the extra step farther in D2 so its bizarre to seem them criticized for it.

I played an effective no-powers Dishonored 1 campaign, and there's only two spots where the game requires it:

Spoiler

1) Going up the water lock at the beginning of Mission 6 (Return to the Tower)
2) Escaping from the pit at the beginning of Mission 7 (Flooded District)

Furthermore, as far as I remember, none of the optional objectives require Blink either.

 

[Kevin Shields]

The game is a bit too similar to Dishonored 1 to be considered a timeless classic imo. The main point of differentiation compared with that game is the ability to select between two characters, but that choice doesn't enhance the concept much or at all. Open world immersive sim in Mankind Divided was a much more impressive step forward for the genre in that year imo. Still, the first Karnaca level, the clockwork mansion and the time travel level have some of the best immersive sim level design I have ever experienced

I love both MD and Dishonored 2 but the latter is much more focused on action. I loved that boat really had no exploring so it was just let's go to the next mission, whereas I loved Prague so much but that was the meat of the game. The main missions were good but not as memorable. DS2 felt like I was stealthinf for 90 percent of the game.

 

[CrichtonKicks]

Dishonored 2 and DX:MD may both be immersive sims but they have different goals.

If you are looking for something more akin to MD's "explore a single incredibly realized location "design goal then that would be Arkane's other game Prey.

 

[shimon]

I don't know,stopped playing halfway through,not sure why...It was weird bc usually I love stealth games like this. And I did finish D1. I remember being annoyed at charms bc all I was getting was stuff for combat and nothing for stealth. So I couldn't even enjoy the crafting part of the game...Maybe one day I will go back.

 

[SomTervo]

Dishonored 2 was okay, it's too much of the same, the game was forgotten upon release

did you guys know that they released a stand alone Dishonored 2 DLC about 2 weeks ago ? yeah, i didn't know about that too

No it wasn't, no it wasn't, no it wasn't, yes we did and the DLC is very well received and seems to have sold well

 

[Mr. Tibbs]

...yes we did and the DLC is very well received and seems to have sold well

On Steamspy, DoTO has barely cleared 70k (with thousands of copies refunded in the last couple of days). In the U.K, despite the low-price point, it didn't make the top 5 in its first week, and has already dropped out of the 10.

 

[eXistor]

Liked it a lot better than the (also great) first which lost steam towards the end for me. Definitely one of the better games of last year. When I'm done with Ys VIII, I'm gonna start DotO. I know nothing about it, so I'm curious to see what it's gonna do.

 

[BTA]

I agree the opener is the weakest part of it. But... And maybe this is just my relationship to games... Talking about story in a videogame is like talking about it in a porno, it's hardly the raison d'etre. Maybe that's not entirely fair, maybe it's more important in a cinematic game like an Uncharted, but Dishonored falls more on the XCOM side of things to me. There's an overarching A to Z plot that provides context and motivation, but otherwise it's all about environment, character flourishes, world building, and moment to moment gameplay creating story. So while I definitely get that the top level plot of DLC Witch Foozle ganks your shit and you flee to the jewel of the south is straight pants... The micro stories of Crack in the Slab, or even certain districts of Karnaca, or people like Jindosh are pretty great.

Don't wanna sound harsh, but: that's definitely just your relationship to games, yup!

I enjoy a good arcadey experience here and there but story/writing is a very important part of my enjoyment of games, and to dismiss them as being that unimportant across the board does the medium a disservice, honestly.

And perhaps more relevant is that the game itself is clearly trying to impress with its story and have big moments that just fall flat. If you're treating it like XCOM, where as you noted the story is more of a framing for the gameplay experience than anything else, that's a big sign of failure on the game's part in my opinion and is kind of damning in itself? Though i agree that the stories it tells in each level are better and generally interesting.

 

[rackham]

You sound like a hypocrite...

I don't think you know what hypocrite means.

 

[Bronetta]

Don't wanna sound harsh, but: that's definitely just your relationship to games, yup!

I enjoy a good arcadey experience here and there but story/writing is a very important part of my enjoyment of games, and to dismiss them as being that unimportant across the board does the medium a disservice, honestly.

And perhaps more relevant is that the game itself is clearly trying to impress with its story and have big moments that just fall flat. If you're treating it like XCOM, where as you noted the story is more of a framing for the gameplay experience than anything else, that's a big sign of failure on the game's part in my opinion and is kind of damning in itself? Though i agree that the stories it tells in each level are better and generally interesting.

Story is important in narrative focused games but they're not the end all factor on a game's quality, especially not enough to overwrite all the games other strengths.

In Dishonored 2, the story is bad. But the gameplay, level design, lore, and attention to detail more than make up for it.

I'm not gonna post about Dishonored 2 focusing on what a bad story it has because it creates a false context for people who havent played it. Dishonored games are master class in gameplay and level design, thats what I'll focus on. In fact they're among the best immersive sims you'll find nowadays. The story just so happens to be the weak link.

Prey also proves Arkane is capable of writing really good stories. Death of the Outsider is also a step up from D2's story.

 

[rackham]

Story is important in narrative focused games but they're not the end all factor on a game's quality, especially not enough to overwrite all the games other strengths.

In Dishonored 2, the story is bad. But the gameplay, level design, lore, and attention to detail more than make up for it.

I'm not gonna post about Dishonored 2 focusing on what a bad story it has because it creates a false context for people who havent played it. Dishonored games are master class in gameplay and level design, thats what I'll focus on. In fact they're among the best immersive sims you'll find nowadays. The story just so happens to be the weak link.

People should play the first Dishonored if you want the whole package.

 

[FallenGrace]

No, that isn't the problem.

The reason I fell in love with D1 was the challenge of only completing it with traversal power. It's odd now that it's either all or nothing (including just that). I understand I can just actively choose to only use traversal, but liked the included in-game approved challenge of only using Blink.

It just sounds like a petty complaint about an otherwise fantastic game. As you said you can literally set that challenge for yourself if you want? Or play with no powers which is a harder in game challenge surely?

 

[Wanderer5]

Non-lethal/low chaos route having much more tools and options alone makes Dishonored 2 a nice improvement over the still great first game.

The main story was crap (then again, Dishonored 1's story wasn't that good either), but by damn just about everything else about the game is so awesome. Expolring the levels are so much fun, especially when the levels start having very unique favors and ideas to them (ala Dust District's two side setup and the whole time thing in A Crack in the Slab).

 

[GravyButt]

Been meaning to pick this up but just never do.

 

[thumb]

Don't wanna sound harsh, but: that's definitely just your relationship to games, yup!

I enjoy a good arcadey experience here and there but story/writing is a very important part of my enjoyment of games, and to dismiss them as being that unimportant across the board does the medium a disservice, honestly.

And perhaps more relevant is that the game itself is clearly trying to impress with its story and have big moments that just fall flat. If you're treating it like XCOM, where as you noted the story is more of a framing for the gameplay experience than anything else, that's a big sign of failure on the game's part in my opinion and is kind of damning in itself? Though i agree that the stories it tells in each level are better and generally interesting.

I'm right there with you that story matters, but I really enjoyed Dishonored 2's story. There are a number of subtleties that I think it executes well. For example: Emily Kaldwin's slow realization that she has been a distant and somewhat uncaring empress. Also her warm relationship with Anton Sokolov.

The basic story beats all worked for me: evil witch with royal bloodline builds up an army of court insiders to stage a takeover. This comes to a head in a very quick and humiliating battle. Corvo/Emily is dishonored, and must confront the various people and organizations that have aided Delilah's rise, and eventually the witch herself.

 

[JamesJoyce1882]

My GOTY 2016 as well, absolutely fabulous game. What a shame nobody bought it, we will most likely never see a sequel.

 

[Bronetta]

I'm right there with you that story matters, but I really enjoyed Dishonored 2's story. There are a number of subtleties that I think it executes well. For example: Emily Kaldwin's slow realization that she has been a distant and somewhat uncaring empress. Also her warm relationship with Anton Sokolov.

The basic story beats all worked for me: evil witch with royal bloodline builds up an army of court insiders to stage a takeover. This comes to a head in a very quick and humiliating battle. Corvo/Emily is dishonored, and must confront the various people and organizations that have aided Delilah's rise, and eventually the witch herself.

That plus the level based stories in themselves are really good. Finding out who the Crown Killer is. Learning about Jindosh and his twisted creations. Paolo's goons vs the Overseers. Finding out what happened to Aramis Stilton. Theres a lot of cool ministories like that in each level.

 

[Drillary Clinton]

The level design definitely trumps the first. They made it so much more layered, added more verticality, more options for completion. The enemies are more intelligent. The story telling was a lot better too. They really did a great job of fleshing out the world with sidebar stories.

 

[thumb]

That plus the level based stories in themselves are really good. Finding out who the Crown Killer is. Learning about Jindosh and his twisted creations. Paolo's goons vs the Overseers. Finding out what happened to Aramis Stilton. Theres a lot of cool ministories like that in each level.

Yes! The meat of the game narratively really was the level-based stories. So many interesting, creepy, and fascinating people. Just thinking about it makes me want to do another playthrough.

 

[RoyaleDuke]

Yes! The meat of the game narratively really was the level-based stories. So many interesting, creepy, and fascinating people. Just thinking about it makes me want to do another playthrough.

Honestly, everyone in this thread would do themselves a service playing the original Thief games too.

The sound design in the Dishonored games is legitimately ripped straight from those games right down to the amazing industrial music, along with the general scenario and story presentation.

I'm not even joking, the big focus for me with the Thief games were the levels, they always gave you a bit of context then shoved you into these big sandbox levels. They told a story with bookends but you could find all kinds of little notes and conversations amongst NPCs that would reveal plot points or foreshadow stuff, or just reveal more about the world and the lives of the NPCs in it.

Dishonored 1,2, DOTO, and the DLC for the first game all follow those design tenants.

Also, I just want to say Rest In Piece to Dishonored's music composer Daniel Licht.

Incredibly talented man who helped make some of the most incredible music and sound design in the Dishonored games that is on a level that I consider to be the same as Thief and Thief II.

 

[Dance Inferno]

That plus the level based stories in themselves are really good. Finding out who the Crown Killer is. Learning about Jindosh and his twisted creations. Paolo's goons vs the Overseers. Finding out what happened to Aramis Stilton. Theres a lot of cool ministories like that in each level.

Dishonored does a really great job of using the level and mission design to build on the plot and lore. For instance as you explore the Addermire Institute you hear guards talking about the patients and how they're being treated, you see the brutally dismantled remains of Crown Killer victims, you can interrupt an assassination of a witness who gives you more hints and backstory on the Crown Killer, you pick up notes and books describing all the research Dr. Hypatia has conducted, etc. If you really take the time to explore every nook and cranny of the level, you get a much deeper understanding of the lore and world around you.

No, the game doesn't have the best plot in the traditional three act sense. But the lore and world building go deep and really reward thorough exploration, and thankfully the level design is masterful so exploration is actually fun in and of itself. Which is more than I can say for Prey, where I wanted to explore in order to learn more about the world, but the combat was so tedious that it actively discouraged me from doing so.

 

[Pooya]

Clockwork mansion was genius imo. Best level... probably ever. People like to stress time travel mansion but that's just a cheap trick, the level itself is nothing special past the gimmick but clockwork mansion is truly stellar marriage of design and art direction. It felt like a mini Bioshock game there except that nothing in Bioshock series is 1/100 as good. I feel everything that comes after this level just can't reach the same highs, the game peaks at the mid point and last level and the other one with witches were just poor and felt half baked in comparison of what came earlier.

The overall story is whatever and I think Emily plays a lot worse than Corvo but there are a lot of amazing pieces of work in this game.

 

[Dance Inferno]

Clockwork mansion was genius imo. Best level... probably ever. People like to stress time travel mansion but that's just a cheap trick, the level itself is nothing special past the gimmick but clockwork mansion is truly stellar marriage of design and art direction.

I mean... they're both great. The fact that they're both in the same game is what's more impressive to me.

 

[thumb]

Honestly, everyone in this thread would do themselves a service playing the original Thief games too.

The sound design in the Dishonored games is legitimately ripped straight from those games right down to the amazing industrial music, along with the general scenario and story presentation.

I'm not even joking, the big focus for me with the Thief games were the levels, they always gave you a bit of context then shoved you into these big sandbox levels. They told a story with bookends but you could find all kinds of little notes and conversations amongst NPCs that would reveal plot points or foreshadow stuff, or just reveal more about the world and the lives of the NPCs in it.

Dishonored 1,2, DOTO, and the DLC for the first game all follow those design tenants.

Also, I just want to say Rest In Piece to Dishonored's music composer Daniel Licht.

Incredibly talented man who helped make some of the most incredible music and sound design in the Dishonored games that is on a level that I consider to be the same as Thief and Thief II.

Good points about the Thief games. I tooled around with them many years ago, but should revisit.

And agreed about Daniel Licht. He created such a distinctive soundscape for Dishonored. Love the music, especially "Dishonored 2 Main Theme".

 

[Milijango]

This is a good thread to see given that I picked this up for 20 bucks earlier this week.

I haven't played an immersive sim since Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which I really enjoyed. I'm going into it pretty much blind on Hard; are they any important quirks or tricks to Dishonored that it doesn't tutorialise?

 

[Bronetta]

This is a good thread to see given that I picked this up for 20 bucks earlier this week.

I haven't played an immersive sim since Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which I really enjoyed. I'm going into it pretty much blind on Hard; are they any important quirks or tricks to Dishonored that it doesn't tutorialise?

Have you played Dishonored 1? This game does have tutorials to get you up to speed.

Theres no right or wrong way to play. You can go in sword and guns blazing and gut every guard in sight. You can stealth it fully and sneak around inch by inch. You can combine the various abilities for some truly creative results. Thats the beauty of this game.

I'd say upgrade the movement abilities as soon as you can: stuff like higher jumps and faster sprinting, they go a long way towards improving the feel of the game.

 

[Milijango]

Have you played Dishonored 1? This game does have tutorials to get you up to speed.

Theres no right or wrong way to play. You can go in sword and guns blazing and gut every guard in sight. You can stealth it fully and sneak around inch by inch. You can combine the various abilities for some truly creative results. Thats the beauty of this game.

I'd say upgrade the movement abilities as soon as you can: stuff like higher jumps and faster sprinting, they go a long way towards improving the feel of the game.

Alright, thanks!

 

[Ushay]

Both games are excellent in their own way. I don't understand why many people are unable to look at titles individually rather than try to place them in a pecking order.

Arkane Studios are great, after playing Prey I cannot wait to see what else they are working on.

 

[thumb]

This is a good thread to see given that I picked this up for 20 bucks earlier this week.

I haven't played an immersive sim since Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which I really enjoyed. I'm going into it pretty much blind on Hard; are they any important quirks or tricks to Dishonored that it doesn't tutorialise?

For a first play, you might want to consider Normal difficulty to get a feel for the game. I would recommend trying a bit of everything: make your initial entrance with some stealth, maybe some traps, get bloody and improvise when things go wrong in a hurry. Explore, read lore, break into people's houses and eat all their food.

 

[Angry Fork]

I like the first more because I think it had a more interesting/better visual aesthetic (not a fan of the sunny outdoors environments in 2) but the time piece level in 2 is one of the best things ever created in gaming. My jaw was dropped the entire time, I haven't felt that since I was a kid. I'm desperate for an entire game like that.

 

[Warablo]

Prey is much better IMO.

 

[jstevenson]

the game, level, and environmental design are some cutting edge / best in the industry right now stuff for sure. Just marvelous. Each level is so intricate and well made.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

Absolutely a masterpiece. Only Prey matches its level design from all games released this generation. Great development of lore, controlling of your character, combat, player agency, and art direction. It doesn't perform as well as I want it to on PC, player but I can't deny it can be a gorgeous game at times. The plot is serviceable, and is all it needs to be.

Two critiques I have are (1) the voice acting and dialog for the two playable characters (it feels very forced) and (2) the Heart showing rune and charm locations has always been a bad mechanic that partially ruins exploration.

Lady Boyle's Last Party was my favorite level of the 360/PS3 generation, and The Clockwork Mansion is similarly my favorite of this generation.

 

[Iscariot]

Don't wanna sound harsh, but: that's definitely just your relationship to games, yup!

I enjoy a good arcadey experience here and there but story/writing is a very important part of my enjoyment of games, and to dismiss them as being that unimportant across the board does the medium a disservice, honestly.

And perhaps more relevant is that the game itself is clearly trying to impress with its story and have big moments that just fall flat. If you're treating it like XCOM, where as you noted the story is more of a framing for the gameplay experience than anything else, that's a big sign of failure on the game's part in my opinion and is kind of damning in itself? Though i agree that the stories it tells in each level are better and generally interesting.

It's not harsh, though you may misunderstand what I mean. I prefer good writing and story and hardly exclusively play arcade games... But let's back up, give me some examples of what you think display good stories. Because my take is more that the medium itself tends to be weak at storytelling, not that I've done IT a disservice.

To your last point, I suppose you could take it as a sign of failure, but I don't. I think Dishonored does a good job of conveying mood and tone, there's a lot of environmental story telling and tangential threads, like the crone (Granny Rags?) and her journey to Pandyssia that are plenty engrossing.

 

[mrlion]

Of the releases this year? I don't think so...my GOTY this year is a tie between Nier Automata and Hollow Knight