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[RedNumberFive]

It boggles my mind that the copy of Super Mario Bros I bought on the Wii needs to be repurchased on the 3DS, and I need to pay an upgrade fee for the Wii U. This coupled with everything else has ensured that I will never buy a DD Nintendo title again. They really are that out of touch.

 

[SolsticeZero]

Serious Stockholm Syndrome.

...

Yep, that's all I see, too. There's no shame in admitting your favorite company has fucked something up. I'm a Playstation fan, and I'm the first up there to say when Sony fucked some shit up.

It boggles my mind that the copy of Super Mario Bros I bought on the Wii needs to be repurchased on the 3DS, and I need to pay an upgrade fee for the Wii U. This coupled with everything else has ensured that I will never buy a DD Nintendo title again. They really are that out of touch.

That shit is ri-god-damned-diculous.

 

[RionaaM]

Nintendo digital approach on the 3DS just plain sucks and is not consumer friendly.

That said, I am going full digital on my new 3DS XL because I can buy games for a third of the price I would pay if I bought retail versions on my country.

I'm just going to pray that my 3DS never breaks or gets stolen.

Exactly this. I don't know what am I going to do with the ones that aren't available on the eShop, like Theatrhythm, Kid Icarus Uprising and Kingdom Hearts. $65 is a total rip-off.

 

[Abandond]

I think there should be an account system in place if you lose a console. Im ok with not allowing you to redownload the games to a different system without contacting support if they're that worried about account sharing. If the old console connects to the internet, they lose access to the games. I doubt 99% of people would go through the effort of that to share a game.

 

[qizah]

I think everyone understands why they do it, it's just not very convenient for the consumer. Plus, the problem with this is that if you ever lose a portable device, your games are likely still with you because you have physical carts elsewhere. If I lose a 3DS with all my digital games, I don't have physical copies of those and they're all gone.

The fact is that Nintendo already has a method of knowing whether or not you legitimately bought those games through Club Nintendo. It'd be relatively easy for them to just allow that account to reinstall those games on a new device and restrict the old device.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It is quite interesting to see for example Steam giving all versions of everything they have for free, while Nintendo charges you twice for the 3DS and WiiU-version of a VC-title. On the other hand, if consumers are willing to pay, why change?

I thought they announced that they were going to change, and tie downloads together across future platforms.

 

[Uncle Rupee]

But treating the digital content like the physical one means you are not obligated to automatically transfer this content across all generations to come (like a SNES-cart not fitting in the N64), maintaining your stream of revenue.

Except we are not talking about hardware like cartridges that aren't compatible with a new machine... Jesus... that's sort of the whole point of digital media, you know?

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

It boggles my mind that the copy of Super Mario Bros I bought on the Wii needs to be repurchased on the 3DS, and I need to pay an upgrade fee for the Wii U. This coupled with everything else has ensured that I will never buy a DD Nintendo title again. They really are that out of touch.

Know what boggles my mind even more? That people defend this policy.

 

[highrider]

And yet somehow Sony and every cell phone manufacturer has figured out a way to have an account system on a portable device.

Yeah, I think sony with psn is a good compromise. My son and I each have a vita. We keep one ps3 and both the vitas as the active devices. Between the two of us we have spent quite a bit over the years and I hope to continue this with ps4. Nothing against Nintendo, but that's why sony gets my loot.

 

[Kinyou]

If you have your 3ds tethered to your belt like nintendo demonstrated in a past e3, you'd never lose it.

That's it guys, strap that 3DS onto your girlfriends

 

[Lightning Lord]

The fact is that Nintendo already has a method of knowing whether or not you legitimately bought those games through Club Nintendo. It'd be relatively easy for them to just allow that account to reinstall those games on a new device and restrict the old device.

This is something I've been saying for a while. When you link your system's ID to Club Nintendo, the games you have downloaded are automatically added to the system. So why are they incapable of expanding on this concept?

 

[SolsticeZero]

That's it guys, strap that 3DS onto your girlfriends

Nintendo will not cover replacements of software as a result of your girlfriend leaving you and taking your 3DS.

 

[outunderthestars]

I understand that it is incredibly anti-consumer.

This.

I have never understood the mental gymnastics that people make in order to defend terrible policies/ideas/products from companies they like.


I love Nintendo games, but Nintendo is a woefully out of touch and sometime arrogant company. Their DD strategy is a perfect reflection of this.

 

[Tobor]

Oh GAF, I leave the thread for a minute and come back to this.

It is funny how some jump at my throat as if I have hailed Nintendos approach as the best solution of digital content management ever, the purpose of this thread is to have a look at the context in which their business decisions make sense from their point of view. That's why I used the term "understanding" and not "justifying", I figured GAF loves talking business, so why not try to have a look at it from the other side of it.

That being said, there is actually another bullet point I should have added to my list:

Selling their back-catalog without giving up too much.
Nintendo have by far the deepest and biggest back-catalog out there, so a service like the virtual console has a huge revenue-potential for all the generations to come. But the account-based approach would most likely mean they will only sell one more copy of Super Mario Bros., and then users will assume to own it for life and all coming generations.
But treating the digital content like the physical one means you are not obligated to automatically transfer this content across all generations to come (like a SNES-cart not fitting in the N64), maintaining your stream of revenue. I wouldn't be surpirsed if one day you do a system tranfer from 3DS to a next-gen handheld and all DSi-ware would stay on the old device, with upgraded DSi-ware-classics popping up on the next-gen eShop.

It is quite interesting to see for example Steam giving all versions of everything they have for free, while Nintendo charges you twice for the 3DS and WiiU-version of a VC-title. On the other hand, if consumers are willing to pay, why change?

There is no context in which this policy makes sense. They are doing a disservice to their business by not following the industry standard. The company looks bad, the competition looks good. No explanation will change that.

 

[polyh3dron]

Oh GAF, I leave the thread for a minute and come back to this.

It is funny how some jump at my throat as if I have hailed Nintendos approach as the best solution of digital content management ever, the purpose of this thread is to have a look at the context in which their business decisions make sense from their point of view. That's why I used the term "understanding" and not "justifying", I figured GAF loves talking business, so why not try to have a look at it from the other side of it.

That being said, there is actually another bullet point I should have added to my list:

Selling their back-catalog without giving up too much.
Nintendo have by far the deepest and biggest back-catalog out there, so a service like the virtual console has a huge revenue-potential for all the generations to come. But the account-based approach would most likely mean they will only sell one more copy of Super Mario Bros., and then users will assume to own it for life and all coming generations.
But treating the digital content like the physical one means you are not obligated to automatically transfer this content across all generations to come (like a SNES-cart not fitting in the N64), maintaining your stream of revenue. I wouldn't be surpirsed if one day you do a system tranfer from 3DS to a next-gen handheld and all DSi-ware would stay on the old device, with upgraded DSi-ware-classics popping up on the next-gen eShop.

It is quite interesting to see for example Steam giving all versions of everything they have for free, while Nintendo charges you twice for the 3DS and WiiU-version of a VC-title. On the other hand, if consumers are willing to pay, why change?

...and there's the double down.

Holy shit. I'm not going to buy Super Mario Bros every time Nintendo puts out a new console. I would like to buy it once and have my account realize that I own that title and can download it to any Nintendo device I please. Until then I will not be buying any eShop games. They are missing out on my money.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

With the recent outrages about Nintendo's approach to Digital Distribution, I think I should point out what I assume is their reasoning behind all this.

1) Nintendo sees digital downloads the same way as a physical cartridge.
You buy one, you only have one. You can not split it in two and play it on two machines at the same time. If you lose it, it is gone (it always baffles me when people say that they won't go digital because of fear of losing their stuff, if the cartridge is gone you lose the game the same way).

which leads to

2) They need to keep things simple and as "offline" as possible.
Nintendos main platform is their handheld-device, that's where they sell most and make the most revenue. BUT: Portable consoles are a lot less online than their home-counterparts, simply because many people don't have internet when they leave their house.

Which brings the problem of DRM to the table.

Sony allows digital games to be played on 2 home-devices and 2 portable devices, which especially in the case of the PSP/PSV might actually mark a loss for them, because one copy of the game could satisfy the needs of two users without any negative effects. Their reasoning is most likely that they rather lose one software-sale and hope to bolster their userbase, which is viable strategy in a market where you're not the leader.

Microsoft doesn't have a portable console. They actually only allow one (!) console to play digital games without an internet connection and if you want to to change which console is offline-capable you have to go through a special process on the site (which you can only do once per year I remember?). Although their case is rather irrelevant to Nintendo, since it's a home-console, so if you have online-connectivity to download games it is very likely you have online further down the road.

-----

Just imagine there is an account-system for the 3DS, you buy 15 games, your friend comes over and wants you to copy your games, you log into your account on his device, download the games, it is all his to play, like new. Nintendo has no way to deactivate the games from your/his 3DS without forcing online-verification (which everbody would hate to see on the next Xbox, a system most of you would keep online all the time anyway)

People need to remember two very important key-points in this discussion:
- Don't bring home-console guidelines to a portable gaming system!
- You cannot spell "Account-system" without some sort of "Online-Authentication". And currently "Online-Authentication" doesn't properly mix with "Portable console" (yet).

I think you could've replaced this wall of text with "They're stuck in 1998" and you could've spared yourself the time wasted defending this.

 

[Winterfang]

So what strategy would you suggest for them to protect themselves from people wildly sharing their downloaded games?

Doing the same as Microsoft? A comprehensive online structure and universal account.

 

[Fezzan]

Wait, if I lose my 3DS I lose all my digital games?
I didn't know that, why the hell is this even the case?

 

[Winterfang]

Wait, if I lose my 3DS I lose all my digital games?
I didn't know that, why the hell is this even the case?

If you sell an used 3DS, you are basically giving away your games.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Wait, if I lose my 3DS I lose all my digital games?
I didn't know that, why the hell is this even the case?

File a police report and you are set.

 

[SolsticeZero]

Wait, if I lose my 3DS I lose all my digital games?
I didn't know that, why the hell is this even the case?

Unless you file a police report, mail the police report to Nintendo, then they MAY give them back to you.

 

[big_erk]

It boggles my mind that the copy of Super Mario Bros I bought on the Wii needs to be repurchased on the 3DS, and I need to pay an upgrade fee for the Wii U. This coupled with everything else has ensured that I will never buy a DD Nintendo title again. They really are that out of touch.

It boggles my mind that people are still arguing about this. You purchased a license for SMB on Wii, not on 3DS and not on Wii U. Since the Wii U is backwards compatible your Wii License can be transferred to the Wii U. If you want the minor updates and off-screen play that the Wii U version has you have to pay a minimal upgrade fee.

 

[SolsticeZero]

It boggles my mind that people are still arguing about this. You purchased a license for SMB on Wii, not on 3DS and not on Wii U. Since the Wii U is backwards compatible your Wii License can be transferred to the Wii U. If you want the minor updates and off-screen play that the Wii U version has you have to pay a minimal upgrade fee.

I purchased a license for Final Fantasy VII on my PS3, and Sony is letting me play it on my Vita. I purchased a license for Rebuild on my Galaxy S III, and Google is letting me play it on my Nexus 7. While I can see the small point for the upgrade fee with the Wii U (kind of), not letting me transfer it to the 3DS is stupid.

 

[eighty(one)]

With the recent outrages about Nintendo's approach to Digital Distribution, I think I should point out what I assume is their reasoning behind all this.

1) Nintendo sees digital downloads the same way as a physical cartridge.
You buy one, you only have one. You can not split it in two and play it on two machines at the same time. If you lose it, it is gone (it always baffles me when people say that they won't go digital because of fear of losing their stuff, if the cartridge is gone you lose the game the same way).

which leads to

2) They need to keep things simple and as "offline" as possible.
Nintendos main platform is their handheld-device, that's where they sell most and make the most revenue. BUT: Portable consoles are a lot less online than their home-counterparts, simply because many people don't have internet when they leave their house.

Which brings the problem of DRM to the table.

Sony allows digital games to be played on 2 home-devices and 2 portable devices, which especially in the case of the PSP/PSV might actually mark a loss for them, because one copy of the game could satisfy the needs of two users without any negative effects. Their reasoning is most likely that they rather lose one software-sale and hope to bolster their userbase, which is viable strategy in a market where you're not the leader.

Microsoft doesn't have a portable console. They actually only allow one (!) console to play digital games without an internet connection and if you want to to change which console is offline-capable you have to go through a special process on the site (which you can only do once per year I remember?). Although their case is rather irrelevant to Nintendo, since it's a home-console, so if you have online-connectivity to download games it is very likely you have online further down the road.

-----

Just imagine there is an account-system for the 3DS, you buy 15 games, your friend comes over and wants you to copy your games, you log into your account on his device, download the games, it is all his to play, like new. Nintendo has no way to deactivate the games from your/his 3DS without forcing online-verification (which everbody would hate to see on the next Xbox, a system most of you would keep online all the time anyway)

People need to remember two very important key-points in this discussion:
- Don't bring home-console guidelines to a portable gaming system!
- You cannot spell "Account-system" without some sort of "Online-Authentication". And currently "Online-Authentication" doesn't properly mix with "Portable console" (yet).

Justification for 3DS maybe, now explain WiiU?

And their account system remains the same for each platform. If your WiiU is broken - tough luck. You're arguing about the universal nature of Nintendo's account system as a whole, thereby their universal policy extends through all of their product DNA. You cannot separate the 3DS from the WiiU. Their is no logical '3DS makes sense because' - its an across the board subject. You haven't come any closer to reasoning their account system because the hypothesis holds no water, because if WiiU :0(

 

[Htown]

Know what boggles my mind even more? That people defend this policy.

I don't know, it's a different system. Seems fine to me. You can play the game on the WiiU in the same way you played it on the Wii. If you want the extra WiiU features, you can pay a minimal upgrade fee.

I don't expect to automatically own the phone version of a game I purchased on PC, or the PC version of a game I purchased on my phone, just because it's the same developer.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

It boggles my mind that people are still arguing about this. You purchased a license for SMB on Wii, not on 3DS and not on Wii U. Since the Wii U is backwards compatible your Wii License can be transferred to the Wii U. If you want the minor updates and off-screen play that the Wii U version has you have to pay a minimal upgrade fee.

For a new virtual booklet and because Nintendo refuses to streamline the process and create a working emulator instead of trying to 'perfect' each rom individually. Thats their choice. I couldnt care less about 'perfection' and virtual instructions, i just want to use the game on the gamepad. Whether its $1 or $10 they are still charging yet again.

 

[Damian.]

The same that Sony uses with Vita. I mean it's not ideal but it's a world ahead of what Nintendo is doing with their systems.

Asking for a Sony/Vita level system is probably asking Nintendo way too much. All they need to do is make a Nintendo Online ID account that shares purchases/funds between one Wii U and one 3DS. The VC games that are on both should be playable on both with one purchase from the user under his account. The current system is archaic, broken and downright asinine.

Do you supporters of what Nintendo is doing think it would be cool if Steam made you buy a new copy of any game if you wanted to play it on your laptop away from home? You realize your argument is 100% wrong no matter how you spin it.

 

[RedNumberFive]

It boggles my mind that people are still arguing about this. You purchased a license for SMB on Wii, not on 3DS and not on Wii U. Since the Wii U is backwards compatible your Wii License can be transferred to the Wii U. If you want the minor updates and off-screen play that the Wii U version has you have to pay a minimal upgrade fee.

We live in a post iOS world where I can use apps I purchased on the original iPhone on the most recent iPad. The fact that fucking NES ROMs aren't transferable is insulting and embarrassing.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

I don't know, it's a different system. Seems fine to me. You can play the game on the WiiU in the same way you played it on the Wii. If you want the extra WiiU features, you can pay a minimal upgrade fee.

I don't expect to automatically own the phone version of a game I purchased on PC, or the PC version of a game I purchased on my phone, just because it's the same developer.

Guess what, Sony does it for the PSP/PS1 bought on the PSN for the Vita. Microsoft will be doing it for Windows phones, PC, and Durango, Apple does it on the iPad/Iphone, but yea, Nintendo should be different.

So do you support buying SMB on the Wii and having to rebuy it on the 3DS?

 

[outunderthestars]

Asking for a Sony/Vita level system is probably asking Nintendo way too much. All they need to do is make a Nintendo Online ID account that shares purchases/funds between one Wii U and one 3DS. The VC games that are on both should be playable on both with one purchase from the user under his account. The current system is archaic, broken and downright asinine.

No, no it isn't. We shouldn't give a company a free pass on the matter simply because they are too greedy to adopt a consumer friendly infrastructure.

 

[RedNumberFive]

For a new virtual booklet and because Nintendo refuses to streamline the process and create a working emulator instead of trying to 'perfect' each rom individually. Thats their choice. I couldnt care less about 'perfection' and virtual instructions, i just want to use the game on the gamepad. Whether its $1 or $10 they are still charging yet again.

At this point I'm convinced that the cornerstone of Nintendo's business strategy is convincing gamers to repurchase the same exact game every generation.

 

[Damian.]

No, no it isn't. We shouldn't give a company a free pass on the matter simply because they are too greedy to adopt a consumer friendly infrastructure.

Nintendo is not going to give you access to your games on 4 devices. Sony was way too nice on that regard, but I do commend them for being that customer friendly.

Having an account linked to one Wii U and one 3DS would be the perfect solution.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

You may not think it is, but Nintendo is not going to give you access to your games on 4 devices. Sony was way too nice on that regard, and I do commend them.

Having an account linked to one Wii U and one 3DS is perfect.

TOO NICE? Holy crap people will defend anything.

 

[Noi]

Yes, if you phone Sony's customer service they can deactivate every system that's used the account in seconds, I've had the PS3 break on me, which caused this very issue and ultimately became a non issue that I never had to think about.

You don't even have to do that anymore. Sony has a website that lets you deactivate every device tied to your account on your own.

Nintendo is not going to give you access to your games on 4 devices. Sony was way too nice on that regard, but I do commend them for being that customer friendly.

Having an account linked to one Wii U and one 3DS would be the perfect solution.

There's a difference between linked to one device and PERMANENTLY linked to one device, like Nintendo does it.

 

[SmokedMeat]

At this point I'm convinced that the cornerstone of Nintendo's business strategy is convincing gamers to repurchase the same exact game every generation.

Nintendo knows their fans very well. For the rest of us you have a choice in not supporting them, and giving your money to companies that handle digital purchases in a more consumer friendly way.

 

[sakipon]

No, no it isn't. We shouldn't give a company a free pass on the matter simply because they are too greedy to adopt a consumer friendly infrastructure.

You can't change the way people think though, or talk for everyone. It's obvious the majority of gamers do not oppose this practice at all. If they did, no-one would purchace anything from the eShop and the situation would be solved.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Nintendo knows their fans very well. For the rest of us you have a choice in not supporting them, and giving your money to companies that handle digital purchases in a more consumer friendly way.

That has certainly been my plan this gen.

 

[SolsticeZero]

At this point I'm convinced that the cornerstone of Nintendo's business strategy is convincing gamers to repurchase the same exact game every generation.

 

[outunderthestars]

Nintendo is not going to give you access to your games on 4 devices. Sony was way too nice on that regard, but I do commend them for being that customer friendly.

Having an account linked to one Wii U and one 3DS would be the perfect solution.

What if someone owns two Wii U's? Kids with divorced parents, vacation homes, etc?


Change this argument from games to MP3's and try and make the same argument that you are right now....

 

[commish]

You can't change the way people think though, or talk for everyone. It's obvious the majority of gamers do not oppose this practice at all. If they did, no-one would purchace anything from the eShop and the situation would be solved.

This type of logic... what...

 

[Damian.]

What if someone owns two Wii U's? Kids with divorced parents, vacation homes, etc?


Change this argument from games to MP3's and try and make the same argument that you are right now....

I understand where you are coming from, but even if Nintendo corrects itself and allows one Account to share games/funds between the 3DS and Wii U, I don't see them going the extra mile and allowing more than one of each on the account.

 

[Palette Swap]

Guess what, Sony does it for the PSP/PS1 bought on the PSN for the Vita. Microsoft will be doing it for Windows phones, PC, and Durango, Apple does it on the iPad/Iphone, but yea, Nintendo should be different.

So do you support buying SMB on the Wii and having to rebuy it on the 3DS?

That's something I genuinely wonder about: have the people viewing this as normal never owned non-Nintendo devices or don't they just see the difference?

To be fair, if Sony's legacy support strategy on PS4 is to resell "upgraded" versions of titles already sold this gen on PSN, it will be interesting to see how it flies.

 

[HardRojo]

You can't change the way people think though, or talk for everyone. It's obvious the majority of gamers do not oppose this practice at all. If they did, no-one would purchace anything from the eShop and the situation would be solved.

My God! Try rereading what you just wrote to see if it makes any sense, I remember there was a similar discussion yesterday in another thread and some answers were baffling, some even the matter of backwards compatibility and claimed it was the same issue.

 

[SirIgbyCeaser]

OP fails to realize, a Digital Downloads consumer may have 2 or more consoles, and want his games to work on all of them. In the case of DS this is not possible. Within one household. a digitally downloaded game does not work on other hardware, and transfers only account for ALL the software on DS.

Between brothers for example they cant share. While on Vita, they could. Sony is consumer friendly in this regard.

 

[Unicorn]

I sold my 3DS. With it, I lost all my digital purchases. If I ever buy another one I won't have games I previously paid for. No other company in gaming is that awful and inept.

Well, you sold your 3DS for a stupid reason.

 

[Winterfang]

Jesus Christ this topic, and people give me shit for paying for Xbox Live.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Well, you sold your 3DS for a stupid reason.

What does that have to do with anything? If I sold my Vita/PS3/360/iphone/PC I wouldn't lose access to my digital purchases.

 

[Azriell]

OP fails to realize, a Digital Downloads consumer may have 2 or more consoles, and want his games to work on all of them. In the case of DS this is not possible. Within one household. a digitally downloaded game does not work on other hardware, and transfers only account for ALL the software on DS.

Between brothers for example they cant share. While on Vita, they could. Sony is consumer friendly in this regard.

Excellent point. My wife doesn't play games very often, but when she does it's almost always one of my games.

Also, and my biggest concern, is not losing your 3DS and 1 cartridge. It's losing your 3DS and 30 downloaded games. Or, even worse (because it's not your fault) having it break.

 

[commish]

What does that have to do with anything? If I sold my Vita/PS3/360/iphone/PC I wouldn't lose access to my digital purchases.

And that's how it should be. Anything to the contrary is just asinine.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

And that's how it should be. Anything to the contrary is just asinine.

Apparently Micro, Sony, Google, Valve, EA, Ubisoft, GoG, Gamestop, Apple and others are just 'TOO NICE' amd its crazy to expect Nintendo to follow their example.