Support NeoGAF

[Anne]

People still hated it. Specifically, the tournament players hated the game, judged it as dumbed down for casuals, threatened to go back to an older game, and kept playing it anyway. This is a cycle as old as Capcom fighting games

In all fairness, the history of the Street Fighter series is a lot of really broken and messed up games that all have some different reason to keep playing. It's not really surprising given the quality and radical differences between the games. Every mainline SF game has some kind of really hard to deal with flaws. Every, single, one. They all also have some kind of secret sauce in them that keeps people playing. That secret sauce tends to be different every time, and it's especially hard to start dealing with an entirely new set of Street Fighter issues across iterations.

SFV is a lot rougher around the edges in general than SFIV initially was on top of a horrendous launch. It's also come out at a time where the standards for fighting games are a lot higher. It deserves quite a bit of the hate it gets. Hell, so does SF4. So does 3S. And ST. They are all very flawed games. They all also got something people dig through to play tho so there is that.

 

[sephi22]

'SF4 was considered bad at release' is my favorite piece of revisionist history.

 

[Turbanator]

....They still have her original outfit. Ryu has a fluffy beard and a torn outfit for an alt, and most people seem to dig it. Hell, I prefer this scruffy look to his SFII original.

But the issue is people are calling to remove her default and others like it completely and only have the more covered up designs.

Don't get me wrong, having her Streetwise outfit be the default in a new game would be 100% fine by me, but if her old costume was completely absent, even as DLC, there would definitely be a backlash.

SFV is an insult to what fighting game sequels can and should be. They massively downsize the roster, gut the core mechanics, add underwhelming new content and have nowhere near the graphical upgrade you'd expect of a generation leap

None of these are true of SFV, though.

 

[Dark_3nergy]

This post sums up all SFV threads so nicely: I don't watch SFV because it is boring (by extent I don't play it because the same reasons), yet here I am to tell everybody about the game!

There is basically nothing fresh and exciting 5 brings to the table, so yea we're both right!

 

[Kai Dracon]

SFV is not terrible and depending on the character and match-up is great and interesting. Its biggest problem is that for a mainline Street Fighter game it feels shockingly rough and incomplete, right down to its presentation. It seems like an alpha Capcom locked in place, released, and has spent a year trying to fix by tweaking frame data back and forth and back and forth.

I do think there are some fundamental problems with the game's business model that aren't helping. Capcom wanted to mimic F2P games with unlocking content and characters through gameplay and premium currency. But it's all wrong compared to the better F2P games. You can't preview characters to see if you actually want to main them. The ways you get fight money and the amounts from various activities is out of whack. Grinding to unlock even one character, after you've exhausted a few free gimmies like story mode, takes too long.

Combined with its lack of polish, the game overall has an off-putting feel. It's not exciting to load up and do things in. This is why so many people are hoping the "super version" rumor is true. The game needs a re-launch with a fresh player experience to shake the blues off.

 

[mnz]

Also tekken 7 has more dope shit in it than launch sfv

Tekken 7 has more dope shit in than current sfv

Part of it is how bare bones it seems compared to its contemporaries. Guilty gear, tekken, and mortal kombat all have new versions with way more content and polish, while it feels like capcom cares more about adding dlc costumes to SFV than actually improving it.

On the subject of the lower execution requirement, for me the biggest loss is the lack of creativity in combos now. There's a lot less of a personal touch in how each player of a character plays them.

I get a lot of the dislike against SFV, but comparing Tekken 7's content favoribly to it is RIDICULOUS.
Tekken 7 has absolutely zero tutorials, demonstrations, explanations of mechanics, trials or ANYTHING in that regard. It's honestly pathetic for a game that's been playable for 2 years or more. It goes as far as the game having mechanics where people aren't even sure what they're called, because the game never gave it a name anywhere, like nosebleed stun moves for example. Did you know that they exist and that you can tech them? I actually wonder how many people even know that every character has a wall jump and how you do it or what a chicken is and how that works.

The game should get much more flak for it.

I would say the core story mode of Tekken 7 is better executed, but it only features a handful of characters and the rest doesn't get anything except a single match.
If you start with a new character in SFV you atleast get their short story mode, demonstrations and trials (everyone except Ed has 20 now). That isn't much, but unless you REALLY like costumization then SFV has vastly more content by now.

'SF4 was considered bad at release' is my favorite piece of revisionist history.

I disagree. SFIV series was rather popular and reinvigorated the scene.

There was always a vocal part of the community criticising SF4 for its various mechanics like invincible backdashes, safe FADC uppercuts, the boring setplay and more. And Capcom worked on that, too. "Revisionist history" would be to say that that didn't happen.

 

[yume_2501]

hater gonna hate, personally i like the changes in the last patches and arcade mode is not a priority, honestly there are already enough single player modes for me (but i would love if they give at least the option to choose difficulty for the characters stories, honestly is a joke atm.Survival mode is too stressing at hard/hell diff.). Chun-li was my main in SFV but once i saw the new Akuma i was in love (buyed using FM), too much fun to play. I buyed Juri too and i can buy another 2 characters with FM

 

[Dueck]

The biggest problem with SFV is that it does so many things worse than its predecessors, albeit in many subjective ways. The lack of content and the art style are two sticking points that remain, and Capcom's self-censorship hasn't gone over well either. The DLC push was too aggressive as well.

While SFV was never outright bad, it's always been disappointing to at least some degree.

 

[Perineum]

Did we bring up the pricing structure of this game in the thread without me sifting through the whole thread?

At launch especially... they wanted a full price for the game, money for a season pass, and then anything else you wanted they touted you could earn with in game money. At launch this was easy from the "story modes" you could do, but then the money flat lines in game so that once you spent it you were shit out of luck.

In its current state you have to spend the same amount you did in SF4 DLC for a pack of costumes to buy just 1 costume for a character. This is ridiculous. Yes, Capcom needs to get a money trail from their playerbase to keep the cash flow in, but you can't go backwards.

It would be one thing if the DLC from SF4 was higher priced, or only had one costume at a time, and then you did this, but we came to expect a certain value of our dollars and what it would net us from Capcom. The greed from them is just unfuckingreal.

Also, those who are scared of MvCi launch you should be beyond scared. People think because UMvC3 was a great game and had solid content that MvCi will launch that day. NO WAY. Are you all forgetting how Capcom did vanilla MvC3? It launched in a February, barebones, full price, no spectating, bad net code, etc and its upgraded version launched within the same year.

Capcom that handles fighters is royally fucked. The Resident Evil team seems to be doing a great job since RE7 was a hit, and the Monster Hunter crew is also delivering some new and fun experiences. FGC Capcom is about milking tits and rushing out shits.

 

[PSlayer]

SFV and MvCI are an insult to what fighting game sequels can and should be. They massively downsize the roster, gut the core mechanics, add underwhelming new content and have nowhere near the graphical upgrade you'd expect of a generation leap, but increment the number on the box and expect everyone to be happy about it. There's no excuse for Capcom when every other company are delivering fantastic high quality games.

To me the problem is not even the graphics(as in poly count,textures quality,etc..) but the art style. SF4 art style was awful(even my GF who barely play games mentioned how ulgy the characters were in USF4 in comparison with other fighting games that she knows) and instead of going into the cell shading art style Capcom just updated the SF4 art style to next gen. Yes characters look less awful now but that is more thanks to the higher poly count than the art style being better.

 

[shaowebb]

What you actually said was that the game has problems but you don't care because they don't bother you. That's fine for you, but don't think it extends past that.

This really. And acting like a top8 best in the world exhibition is a fair example of how the rest of its playerbase is able to adapt regularly to scenarios is ludicrous. The game is rigid and for those not frequenting top16 levels of tourney play its even more so because they aren't like the best of the best...theyre normal folks. If even your top players say it's strict then it's hell for most of its players because they aren't even as capable as those who are experts at the game.

 

[fresquito]

hater gonna hate, personally i like the changes in the last patches and arcade mode is not a priority, honestly there are already enough single player modes for me (but i would love if they give at least the option to choose difficulty for the characters stories, honestly is a joke atm.Survival mode is too stressing at hard/hell diff.). Chun-li was my main in SFV but once i saw the new Akuma i was in love (buyed using FM), too much fun to play. I buyed Juri too and i can buy another 2 characters with FM

I bought all chars with FM and have saved for two and half more.

FM was really grindy at the start, but not anymore. That said, Survival is a failure as big as it gets. Getting rid of the mode altogether would make SFV a better game.

 

[Hazzuh]

'SF4 was considered bad at release' is my favorite piece of revisionist history.

Yeah, it's bizarre. A tiny minority of 3s players not liking it is being rewritten so it is comparable to SFV's disastrous launch.

 

[Petrae]

The problem with this trend is that first impression matters.

There are too many games now and if you can't impress initially and have a lot of promises for future updates, people will lose interest.

It's not the first time this happened either, Diablo III and No Man's Sky were also of half-baked games that improved after a while, but lost a considerable part of the audience.

That being said, SFV Evo, especially top 8, rekindled my desire to play that game again.

First impression absolutely destroyed any chance of me buying/playing Street Fighter V ever. Rushing it to retail because eSports while leaving solo player content for after release made it easy to ignore the game-- and future Capcom fighting game releases will have to be extra convincing with tons of solo content for me to consider ever buying one again.

Capcom cannot fix the shitty first impression I got. It can't. It doesn't even matter if it finally adds an Arcade Mode to Street Fighter V somewhere down the line. It's too late. It's sad that, after decades of buying Street Fighter games as a strictly solo player-- most on Day One-- Capcom told me through its actions that I no longer mattered with this game. That's damage that after-the-fact content can't fix, no matter how strong the game purportedly is.

 

[ec0ec0]

Third Strike wasn't focused on fire ball game.

right, and it wasn't the only one were fireballs mattered less, sure.

However, like i said in my post, SFIV did bring them back, and we had grown accustomed to fireballs being a big part of the game.

Fireballs were supposed to be good, and jumps were supposed to be bad.

But fireballs are just an example.

For each other thing SFIV brought back to conform its neutral game, SFV introduced a mechanic/design decision to keep it in check. It was pretty drastic.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I mean it is still boring to play though

 

[jett]

Almost every time I watch the game, I see something that just seems off. Movement looks jerky, bad netcode, top players jumping in situations that would be incredibly unsafe in Street Fighter IV, anti-air jabs, using the same normals 3 times in a row without moving, fishing for frame traps and then converting those hits into 50% damage combos instead of the usual poking and then confirming. Nothing convinces me to take time away from Guilty Gear.

 

[SephLuis]

where is the fireball game? In SFIV, fireballs at medium range (where you could anti air on reaction) and short range (as a poke) were a very significant part of the neutral game. Aside from guile, fireballs are almost non existant in SFV.

I have my issues with the game, but I am on mobile right now to explain everything.

Basically, I see a lot of opinions which are down right wrong or skewered in the sense that SF V is bad because it isn't like SF IV or other games in the genre. Your post is the first, it's wrong.

Taking ryu as example. You can use fireball as a poke and a keep away tool. SF V is a game about reading the opponent, not reaction. So if your opponent sees the fireball and jumps to punish, there's more than enough time to SRK him out of the air. The opponent has to jump before the fireball is even out in order to punish it.

And hell, I play juri and Chun li which use a lot of fireballs for pressure and gaining space. The fireball game is there, but very different than SF IV. You can't just throw them without thinking because you will get punished and it hurts a lot in this game. Dhalsim also can make an irritating keep away game using fireballs and his normals.

 

[Relix]

I just saw that final. God damn that was good.

 

[jett]

I have my issues with the game, but I am on mobile right now to explain everything.

Basically, I see a lot of opinions which are down right wrong or skewered in the sense that SF V is bad because it isn't like SF IV or other games in the genre. Your post is the first, it's wrong.

Taking ryu as example. You can use fireball as a poke and a keep away tool. SF V is a game about reading the opponent, not reaction. So if your opponent sees the fireball and jumps to punish, there's more than enough time to SRK him out of the air. The opponent has to jump before the fireball is even out in order to punish it.

And hell, I play juri and Chun li which use a lot of fireballs for pressure and gaining space. The fireball game is there, but very different than SF IV. You can't just throw them without thinking because you will get punished and it hurts a lot in this game. Dhalsim also can make an irritating keep away game using fireballs and his normals.

member vanilla sf4

member TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT

Do these people even remember this trash. Maybe they're Sagat mains. There's a fireball game in SFV. It's just not stupid.

 

[Nocturnowl]

I can't help but find the continued polarising nature of this game really fascinating in a way.

I suppose I should point out that I do like the game quite a lot (heck I even bumped it to my third or fourth in last years GotY thread). I really appreciate the chances taken with modifying veteran characters in bigger ways from moves to visually, I dig the amount of actual new characters we've been getting thanks to Season 2 as well as liking all the designs thus far sans Abigail.

There's no mistake about it though that it had a piss poor start, I'm not quite as tough on it for that as others because it feels like a ton of fighters I've purchased as a casual player over the years have suffered from content woes in their base forms (including recently alongside SFV such as Pokken and ARMs). This doesn't really excuse the fact though that even the content starved opening entry tradition was especially anaemic compared to the past with the promise of stuff to come.

For all the good Capcom do building upon the game it's all bungled by their shockingly high amount of delays and silence between news, it feels like it takes nearly 3 times longer than it should for them to actually get stuff up and running. From the original shop/character DLC, to missions, to the new CFN and Ed and more (hey nostalgia costumes!) there's been a step back for every step forward.
It's at a point where divorced from the actual saga of its release and support you have a pretty respectable looking game right now sans a few things and putting aside if you like the combat or not. But unfortunately the game doesn't exist in this vacuum.

I really feel like Capcom could blast this back into good favour with a generous Super update and gameplay changes but in order to go the way I'm thinking (starts off with ALL the content by the end of season 2, including stages/costumes/titles/some colours) would also piss a lot of original owners off for having potentially paid/grinded away for all that.
The game finds itself between a rock and a hard place, I've personally found the fight money angle to be actually pretty solid myself, I feel like they had the right idea but execution got fumbled.

And really that's SFV in a nutshell, the right idea but not executed well enough and it continues this angle all the way to the present. I don't think the game deserves the massive hate it garners from some (to the point that other fighters can actually get away with similar issues!), I also see that it does have problems to tackle, so damn it Capcom just get some momentum going here, it's all stop, start.

 

[shawnoftheshred]

Doesn't SFV have both one of the worst input delays and most troubled netcodes of the major fighting games recently launched? Those seem like two pretty major issues with the foundation of the game since launch, content quantity and quality aside.

 

[LakeEarth]

SF5 would be much better if they buffed Alex. Come on Capcom, do it!

It's so dumb that they took low-tier Alex in season 1, and took away everything that made him a threat. And gave him what, slightly more damage off of a lariat? Giving headbutt and v-skill slightly less recovery? That's way too good Capcom, better buff Cammy again to balance things out.

 

[ethomaz]

The game was never bad to begin.

 

[OceanBlue]

I've kinda fallen out of paying attention to SFV so maybe (hopefully?) I'm wrong, but I think my biggest issue with the game is the defensive options you have. People complain about throw loops but to me that's symptomatic of how strong blocking is relative to anything else and the lack of strong defensive options that return you to neutral.

 

[mnz]

Doesn't SFV have both one of the worst input delays and most troubled netcodes of the major fighting games recently launched? Those seem like two pretty major issues with the foundation of the game since launch, content quantity and quality aside.

No, they lowered the input lag to acceptable levels and the netcode is better than like 90% of other fighting games. It's rollback netcode that has a limit, but it's better than pretty much any input lag based netcode.

Another Tekken 7 counter point by the way, that game has higher input lag than SFV ever had.

 

[Nephtes]

Street Fighter V is not a bad game.
It's a bad product.

The core gameplay is fine.
Every single decision Capcom made surrounding that core gameplay is flawed, underbaked, half-assed, poorly conceived, badly designed, laughably stupid, misogynistic, or some combination of the above.

I could make lists of the problems with this game. Most of us have.

I'm eagerly awaiting the day Capcom can either right this ship with a Super Street Fighter V that wipes away the entire user interface and deletes the embarrassingly bad story modes (compared to something like Injustice), and puts in a proper arcade mode, and figures out someway to correct the God awful character models (like default Ken), and the horrendous texture issues (have you ever gotten hit into the log on the waterfall stage? I've seen that texture before, it was from PS1 Crash Bandicoot...)...

Or makes Street Fighter VI... That moves the timeline past III finally.

But Capcom hates money, as evidenced by pretty much the entire cast of Season 2 so far (Akuma excluded...) so my expectation is that they will continue to fuck up with season 3 and SFV will not live up to the legacy the likes of SFII and SFIV left behind.

 

[ec0ec0]

The fireball game is there, but very different than SF IV. You can't just throw them without thinking because you will get punished and it hurts a lot in this game.

i'm not sure why you would even have to say this, as that was also the case in street fighter 4?

SF4 was full of moves with projectile invincibility, and many characters had an ultra that went through fireballs, meaning that, once your oponent had taken enough damage, you had to be extremely carefull.

Your oponent could also catch you by charging focus at mid-close range and releasing it when the fireball hit them, or they could fadc through the fireball and throw you.

Taking ryu as example. You can use fireball as a poke and a keep away tool. SF V is a game about reading the opponent, not reaction. So if your opponent sees the fireball and jumps to punish, there's more than enough time to SRK him out of the air. The opponent has to jump before the fireball is even out in order to punish it.

So now we are acting like characters actually have to comit to a jump in SFV to get around ryu's fireballs?

and if they want to take their chance, all they may need in SFV is to guess right once. Massive damage, corner carry, and then, unless you have meter, you're free on wake up.

I've seen ryu's v-trigger pass many times without him getting to do anything with it (in term of fireballs). Thowing fireballs is scary.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

SFV's only current failing is a lack of a properly structured arcade mode, that's it.

The negativity surrounding is truly hyperbolic and toxic. I didn't buy Tekken 7, but I was surprised to hear how it too has meager single-player content, that online was completely broken on PS4 for weeks after launch and that it has horrific loading times. Where was the widespread outrage there? People constantly shitting on SFV and Capcom has reached a point where it's just laughable and impossible to take seriously most of the time. Yes, the launch was a shitshow, but improvements have been made since.

Yea nothing highlighted the hypocrisy more than T7s blunders and nothing was made of it. The online modes straight up didn't work for a week on PS4 and there was hardly any attention paid to it. Also it's single player options are barely above SFV. Even now the time to go get to a match (another sf v complaint) is really long. And it has no cross play.

I love T7. It's the one I'm putting all my time in right now. But the double standards between t7 and SFV are staggering.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

It's another disappointing installment in the series, but it's not a bad game.

 

[Pompadour]

'SF4 was considered bad at release' is my favorite piece of revisionist history.

You mean history? I was soured on the game before it launched because I took all the SRK comments from loketests as gospel. People in the competitive community did not take to SF4 for the longest time. It may have had a worse competitive reception than SFV because, unlike V, people immediately recognized that one character was way better than the rest. Sagat anti-airing from a third of the screen away into some of the biggest damage of the game was obscene. SF4 didn't become a good game, period, until Super.

What's crazier is that this was a known issue in the arcade release and they didn't bother to adjust Sagat for vanilla console release.

If your argument is "Casual players bought the shit out of vanilla SF4 and thought it was great" then you're right. SFV didn't have casual success at all.

Yea nothing highlighted the hypocrisy more than T7s blunders and nothing was made of it. The online modes straight up didn't work for a week on PS4 and there was hardly any attention paid to it. Also it's single player options are barely above SFV. Even now the time to go get to a match (another sf v complaint) is really long. And it has no cross play.

I love T7. It's the one I'm putting all my time in right now. But the double standards between t7 and SFV are staggering.

Tekken 7 also had been out in arcades for two years and still had all these problems. SFV at least had the excuse of being rushed out the door.

 

[MechaX]

member vanilla sf4

member TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT

Do these people even remember this trash. Maybe they're Sagat mains. There's a fireball game in SFV. It's just not stupid.

There can be a balance between Vanilla Sagat's Wild Ride and "Shimmy Fighter V."

If you're not Guile or maybe Sim, I would hesitate to say that anyone else has a fire game at all at this point

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I get a lot of the dislike against SFV, but comparing Tekken 7's fnord favoribly to it is RIDICULOUS.
Tekken 7 has absolutely zero tutorials, demonstrations, explanations of mechanics, trials or ANYTHING in that regard. It's honestly pathetic for a game that's been playable for 2 years or more. It goes as far as the game having mechanics where people aren't even sure what they're called, because the game never gave it a name anywhere, like nosebleed stun moves for example. Did you know that they exist and that you can tech them? I actually wonder how many people even know that every character has a wall jump and how you do it or what a chicken is and how that works.

The game should get much more flak for it.

I would say the core story mode of Tekken 7 is better executed, but it only features a handful of characters and the rest doesn't get anything except a single match.
If you start with a new character in SFV you atleast get their short story mode, demonstrations and trials (everyone except Ed has 20 now). That isn't much, but unless you REALLY like costumization then SFV has vastly more content by now.



There was always a vocal part of the community criticising SF4 for its various mechanics like invincible backdashes, safe FADC uppercuts, the boring setplay and more. And Capcom worked on that, too. "Revisionist history" would be to say that that didn't happen.

And thats the elephant in the room i keep mentioning to no avail: what is or isnt in a Fighter that is demanded by this "silent majority" is not consistantly rewarding those that do, nor are those that dont consistantly punished at market.

It is demands for Player Bribery and nothing more.

As for me: A Goddamn Rootkit was the dealbreaker. You dont come back from that with me.

 

[Punished_Snake]

Doesn't SFV have both one of the worst input delays and most troubled netcodes of the major fighting games recently launched? Those seem like two pretty major issues with the foundation of the game since launch, content quantity and quality aside.

The short answer is No:

BBCF 41.9ms
BBCPE 42.9ms
Nitro Blasters 55.1ms
GGXRD Revelator 58.2ms
USF4 59.1ms
Injustice 65.6ms *note command history occurs 1F before animation starts
SkullGirls 2nd Encore 73ms
Garou 74.6ms
Last Blade 2 74.6ms
Dead or Alive 5 LR 75.3ms
Mortal Kombat X 75.5ms *note command history occurs 1F after animation starts
KOFXIV ver 2.00 76.5ms
SFV 88.6ms
UMvC3 89.1ms
Injustice 2 92.4ms command history appears one frame earlier
Tekken 7 120.1ms *command history appears one frame faster

Tekken 7 got patched and they reduced input lag to 113 ms I think (not sure if it's reduced or not)

SFV netcode is not the greatest, but it's good actually.

 

[Snacks the sober sea lion]

Guilty Gear's animation style has nothing to do with the movement itself.

 

[LakeEarth]

Yea nothing highlighted the hypocrisy more than T7s blunders and nothing was made of it. The online modes straight up didn't work for a week on PS4 and there was hardly any attention paid to it. Also it's single player options are barely above SFV. Even now the time to go get to a match (another sf v complaint) is really long. And it has no cross play.

I love T7. It's the one I'm putting all my time in right now. But the double standards between t7 and SFV are staggering.

Some times, games get a hate-train going. People love a good hate-train, people hop on to them even if they don't give a shit about the game in question. And like a real train, it takes a lot to get it to stop once it gets up to speed. The only game I can think of that improved itself so dramatically that it "stopped the train" was Drive Club.

 

[jett]

Doesn't SFV have both one of the worst input delays and most troubled netcodes of the major fighting games recently launched? Those seem like two pretty major issues with the foundation of the game since launch, content quantity and quality aside.

SFV's input lag has been reduced since launch, and it's now lower by two frames compared to the godlike savior of fighting games Tekken 7.

I like SFV's netcode just fine, sometimes's great, sometime's not so great, just like any other game out there. Personally I much prefer rollback compared to input delay netcode, which I find near unplayable.

 

[Karsha]

I still think that no fighting game should have paid dlc characters. Add skins, stages, music whatever you want but not characters. This isnt a MOBA when you can watch a video online and learn what that character does, you have to try him yourself to explore his weakness or maybe to fell in love with that character. Also release all of them at once not 1 every 2 months, it just kills the balance and meta lol

 

[ec0ec0]

member vanilla sf4

member TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT TIGER SHOT

There's a fireball game in SFV. It's just not stupid.

now please link us to all the post vanilla matches of all the sagat mains spamming tiger shot as a viable high level strategy at tournament. Or just show us a sagat at all.

SFIV's fireball game was stupid good!? what the actual f*ck

who aside from daigo was able to actually play a fireball game in SFIV for the whole game's life span and still be able to consistently win at the highest level of play?

bonchan sagat was pretty good too, but the inmense majority of people didn't rely on fireballs to win. Virtually no one could do it.

 

[mnz]

I still think that no fighting game should have paid dlc characters. Add skins, stages, music whatever you want but not characters. This isnt a MOBA when you can watch a video online and learn what that character does, you have to try him yourself to explore his weakness or maybe to fell in love with that character. Also release all of them at once not 1 every 2 months, it just kills the balance and meta lol

It's either new releases like SF4 and GG had or DLC characters. I vastly prefer the latter.

Ever since SF2 have people bought new characters with money. Just in the form of a new retail release.

 

[Nephtes]

I still think that no fighting game should have paid dlc characters. Add skins, stages, music whatever you want but not characters. This isnt a MOBA when you can watch a video online and learn what that character does, you have to try him yourself to explore his weakness or maybe to fell in love with that character. Also release all of them at once not 1 every 2 months, it just kills the balance and meta lol

I don't mind the DLC character concept... But there needs to be a way to "try before you buy".
And I don't mean the characters' appearance in the shitty story mode.
At the very least, every character should be selectable in the Training Mode so you can see if you even like the character before plunking down your hard earned fight money or actual cash.

Or do something like Killer Instinct and rotate new characters in for trial periods.

Ideally, SFV would have been Free to Play with each character costing $5 and character packs giving you a discount...
I really like how Killer Instinct did this... Their problem was not enough characters at launch.

But hey, Killer Instinct got really good over time and didnt cost me $60 at launch like SFV did.

 

[AlexIIDX]

When every other fighting game on the market delivers games with more characters, modes, and better visuals SFV looks bad in comparison. Capcom Wong even tell you what's on the season pass and expects you to buy on blind faith. What's worse, is the fact that they can't even deliver new content on time, skipping whole months. Every other fighter on the market has an answer to SFV's issues, but capcom still can't seem to get it together

Little late to the thread but the game has a pretty nice sized roster. And I know it's your opinion but SFV looks great visually and it animates better than almost all other fighters out there....the rest to me are valid.

 

[Turbanator]

I still think that no fighting game should have paid dlc characters. Add skins, stages, music whatever you want but not characters. This isnt a MOBA when you can watch a video online and learn what that character does, you have to try him yourself to explore his weakness or maybe to fell in love with that character. Also release all of them at once not 1 every 2 months, it just kills the balance and meta lol

You can't say "I want every character to be free" and then turn around and say "I want six characters to come out at once". That won't happen.

That being said, I wouldn't mind future fighting games having like $7 costumes if that means getting a completely free character every two or three months.

 

[danmaku]

Yea nothing highlighted the hypocrisy more than T7s blunders and nothing was made of it. The online modes straight up didn't work for a week on PS4 and there was hardly any attention paid to it. Also it's single player options are barely above SFV. Even now the time to go get to a match (another sf v complaint) is really long. And it has no cross play.

I love T7. It's the one I'm putting all my time in right now. But the double standards between t7 and SFV are staggering.

T7 got a ton of flak for its problems... in the OT. Nobody was creating threads to shit on the game because the community here is very Capcom-centric so a lot of users didn't even know the game was out and / or didn't care.

 

[jett]

now please link us to all the post vanilla matches of all the sagat mains spamming tiger shot as a viable high level strategy at tournament.

Why would I when I'm talking specifically about vanilla?

Just pointing out SF4's "fireball game" was not god's gift to gaming when it was released. And that's what I remember of Sagat in 2009.

And by the way that broken-ass character remained a broken-ass character unless you shelled out $40 the next year. Which brings another topic to mind, it's a shame people can't see the positives SFV brought, such as never again making people pay for a title update (which btw is something ArcSys continues to do). And it's the only fighting game I know of where you can unlock DLC characters with in-game currency. So overbearingly negative was the reception to nearly every aspect of SFV that Capcom said fuck it and ditched this for MvCI. And hell barely anybody cared or noticed.

 

[stn]

Sagat wasn't busted because of his tiger shot in vanilla IV, it was because he had STUPID damage converting off of st. RH into his ultra. Fireballs were decent as a keep-away tool overall in IV, people just complain because, no offense to the IV player base, but I think they probably have the worst fundamentals overall of any sub-group. To this day I still rarely encounter IV players online who know how to walk forward and block properly. I wish some of these people could play against a pro SF2'er to see what real zoning bullshit feels like.

On topic, SF5 is a good game. But still, many of the complaints are legitimate. Survival mode is still beyond shit, a lot of the cast still lacks variety, and online functionality can still be a crap-shoot. But I do believe that people are being unfair to the game the same way they were unfair to SFxT after the 2013 patch released. Do I wish some things were changed in SF5? Of course! But its still far from the worst fighter ever or whatever else people have been calling it.

 

[Lulubop]

Believe it or not, there is a contingent of people that will blindly deny all of SFV's shortcoming no matter how obvious they are.

SFV is okay, the gameplay is way too 50/50 based, shimmys, throw loops and the lag make it feel like shit to play, the new characters are all bad and they've even butchered some fan favorites, but after 2 years it will have a lot of character variety, cool stages and it is still a pretty addictive grind online. Also it's really well balanced despite what the whiners say.

Well good thing Tokido thinks it's a better game, so marginalizing his victory is just shit posting.

 

[Nephtes]

SFV's input lag has been reduced since launch, and it's now lower by two frames compared to the godlike savior of fighting games Tekken 7.

FWIW, Tekken 7 was never going to be the "godlike savior of fighting games" for people who crave Capcom style 2D fighting games.

I watched some of the Tekken 7 Evo final 8 and I was like "what is this even? No thanks."

 

[mnz]

Sagat wasn't busted because of his tiger shot in vanilla IV, it was because he had STUPID damage converting off of st. RH into his ultra.

Look at the damage

 

[MrCarter]

That top 8 was fun to watch due to the players, not the game. As it stood at top 8, Tokido's victory was pretty much written. Good for him. Wish he'd gotten that Evo "W" at a better game.

First time in years I haven't cared about evo... SF5 has not done any services to the scene!

When every other fighting game on the market delivers games with more characters, modes, and better visuals SFV looks bad in comparison. Capcom Wong even tell you what's on the season pass and expects you to buy on blind faith. What's worse, is the fact that they can't even deliver new content on time, skipping whole months. Every other fighter on the market has an answer to SFV's issues, but capcom still can't seem to get it together

Tekken 7 didn't deliver shit after 2 years in arcades and KOF looks like shit yet they get a free pass. SFV, visually, actually looks like one of the best in the business and the animations are top notch. Anyway, even if you think that it doesn't "deliver" the irony is that it's still the most played, watched and the most competitive fighter in the FGC. Just look at EVO. They deffo need a SSFV update though.