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I want a narrative-focused Pokemon game so badly.

I will echo the Mystery Dungeon recommendations; Explore of the Sky is the best of the bunch. Make sure to stay away from the 1st 3DS one (Gates to Infinity) because it's dumbed down, with a limited selection of Pokemon and bad DLC.
Glitchesarecool said:
Black and White and XY had pretty good stories. XY especially, that shit was heavy for Pokemon.
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B&W were good (by Pokemon standards) but XY were just bad. B&W tackled an interesting topic in the Pokemon world (captured Pokemon = slaves?) while XY had the typical ''evil team that will take over the world'' plot with some drama sprinkled in that didn't really work.
 
Delta Episode felt like it was them experimenting with a narrative. They really need to because after being away for a decade and seeing it was still the same was annoying. They are so stuck on that formula.
 
Fmal said:
Well OP, you're probably never going to get it because Pokemon is a game for children and nine year olds probably don't care about the characterization of the gym trainer that likes ice pokemon.
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More or less. Black and White was a good attempt though.
 
Glitchesarecool said:
A giant world ending cannon powered by sacrificing pokemon isn't heavy for the series?

I'm not saying it's a story of the year, but it's more than the series usually has.
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Sure it's dark, but it's such an out of place cringe inducing EDGE, that I can't see how anybody can say it was a good idea. Also, like another poster said, it was just another evil for evil's sake team. It didn't have any more story than the other gens that didn't focus on it. Just because they had some giant stupid cannon doesn't make it any better than trying to flood the world or create more land, which are both awful ideas for a variety of other reasons.

I just want an interesting evil team again that doesn't have some awful idiotic plan.
 
I think it's time they revamped the single player campaign entirely, not just narratively, but the whole structure. B/W already pushed the traditional Gym Leader/Evil Team/E4 dynamic as far as it could go, it's time for something new. Not that I have any hopes they'll change anything significantly, mind you. As long as they have a monopoly over the "catch and train creatures to pit it against your friends'!" market and the games keep selling as well as they do then there's really no incentive for them to innovate or push the envelope whatsoever, so they'll keep improving the core mechanics while keeping the same old and tired package around it.

An Itoi directed Pokémon game would be an interesting idea for a spin-off, but I can't see it working within the restraints of the mainline games, specifically because of their battle system. They're too restrictive for the things Itoi likes to do with some of his boss fights.
 
Black and White (and the sequels) were a nice start in that direction. XY was a step back into the same (although there was some story there with the tall guy...they just did fuck all with it).

Honestly, all they need to do is change up the formula. The beat 8 gyms, Beat the Team Rocket ripoff + Legendary, beat Elite 4 formula has simply ran its course. Make you rival important and not just a fanboy/girl or some lame you can't keep up with you. Make the main villain force and actual force (also can we stop giving them all the same pokemon?), make the elite 4 and gym leaders actually do stuff. That way even if the flow is the same, it would feel fresh (also might be more challenging).

something simple (and better written lol) like : You and your rival have been rivals for year and you set out slightly after him/her as you are always playing catch up, always a step behind. You eventually begin to surpass them, pissing them off, they turn evil..join the evil team and blah blah. That alone will actually give you a reason to defeat the evil team without them being idiotic dopes who want to destroy the world because yolo, your rival is important and threat again and you have to earn your PokeJesus status instead of everyone sucking you off day one.

It is frustrating to see the series stagnate a bit, B&W was super fresh for me and while I loved X&Y, that was mainly due to the POKEMON IN 3D yo than the actual game in retrospect. Hope the next gen is another step up as I;ll give them the engine excuse for the step back that was xy
 
RyosukeTH said:
I think they tried.



Terrible mistake though. It tried to be edgy like Shadow the Hedgehog.
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I don't mean this in a confrontational way, but I have to disagree with you there. I don't think that Colosseum is at all edgy.

EiWiGCs.jpg


Like, at all.

The game has a different setting/atmosphere from the normal pokemon games, but comparing it to Shadow's attempt at swearing and guns is kind of insane to me. The game was still goofy as fuck in every way and just happened to be different from the other games in the series, which made it a very fun playthrough to me.
 
It would be cool if there was another jab at a more narrative Pokemon RPG but I don't think they would for quite awhile. They should make the places in the mainline games more fleshed out with things to find and do like side quests and such.
The first two gens Pokemon games were fine given their limitations which actually benefited the aspect of exploring in them, but that cannot be an excuse anymore.
 
I personally would rather they at least TRY.

X/Y had such a lazy ass story it was like why bother? Either give us a more open ended adventure with little plot or give us a really good plot but don't get so incredibly lazy.

And I really, really hate using the word lazy because I know how extremely difficult game development on any scale is but looking through the X/Y's story...unless there was a TON of cut content it was incredibly, genuinely lazy. Moreso than the typical pokemon plot.
 
A better, more involved narrative would be nice. I'd also love to see them break the traditional formula a bit more than they've been willing to. I started Omega Ruby, but I haven't really felt like playing it because while it's good, it's more of the same honestly (which is no surprise especially given it's a remake). I'll get that itch and get around to playing it eventually, but they could really do with a mix up.
 
Pokemon B/W had a interesting story, with some good changes in the formula.


But as a pokemon fan i don't really care about the story of this games, since the campaign is just the "tutorial". I'd be fine with having a more focus in the story, as long as it doesn't make the campaigns even slower and easier (since the campaing it's less than 10% of my time playing pokemon).
 
The characters and story content in the gen 6 games areso bad that I'm kind of terrified of gamefreak attempting to make a narrative-heavy one. It's a shame, cause N was pretty cool, and the ending of BW was pretty hype.

It'd be pretty cool if Nintendo flexed their wallets to get a different studio to make more experimental pokemon spinoffs though. Stuff that tries different story approaches, or stuff that messes with the gameplay while still remaining kind of similar to the regular RPGs, instead of being a total genre overhaul. There would be the question of branding to protect the 10-million seller cash cow of course, but I think they could manage.

Black_Red said:
Pokemon B/W had a interesting story, with some good changes in the formula.


But as a pokemon fan i don't really care about the story of this games, since the campaign is just the "tutorial". I'd be fine with having a more focus in the story, as long as it doesn't make the campaigns even slower and easier.
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I think they need to attempt to do some research on the percentage of their customers that engage in the multiplayer to figure out how many people actually just see the story as the tutorial. Both when I was a kid and now that I'm part of the demographic of "young adults who grew up playing pokemon and never stopped," it's always felt like the series has been a a single-player RPG franchise 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for my friends and I, and a competitive multiplayer thing last. If it turns out that a significant fraction of the userbase feels the same way, then exploring ways to improve the rpg experience might be a good way to slow or reverse generation-over-generation decline.
 
You should check out Explorers of Sky. Slow start notwithstanding, it has some pretty high stakes and a strong character focus. There are sidestories where you can play as the supporting cast, and even your main character has stuff going for them beyond "does what people ask". It doesn't use the main Pokemon world, but it and the other Mystery Dungeon games are probably the closest thing we're going to get.
 
fredrancour said:
It'd be pretty cool if Nintendo flexed their wallets to get a different studio to make more experimental pokemon spinoffs though. Stuff that tries different story approaches, or stuff that messes with the gameplay while still remaining kind of similar to the regular RPGs, instead of being a total genre overhaul. There would be the question of branding to protect the 10-million seller cash cow of course, but I think they could manage.
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But they have plenty of experimental spinoffs already and GameFreak hasn't worked on a single one of them.
 
fredrancour said:
I think they need to attempt to do some research on the percentage of their customers that engage in the multiplayer to figure out how many people actually just see the story as the tutorial. Both when I was a kid and now that I'm part of the demographic of "young adults who grew up playing pokemon and never stopped," it's always felt like the series has been a a single-player RPG franchise 1st, 2nd, and 3rd for my friends and I, and a competitive multiplayer thing last. If it turns out that a significant fraction of the userbase feels the same way, then exploring ways to improve the rpg experience might be a good way to slow or reverse generation-over-generation decline.
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The thing is, pokemon X/Y and ORAS had a lot of focus on the MP experience. Easier training with the new exp share, EV training with the minigames, destiny knot improved breeding a LOT. Legendary pokemon now always have at least 3 perfect IV, etc...
That means at least GF still put some focus in the MP (specially now, when playing online is easier than ever).
 
Black and White and the sequels definitely had the best narrative I feel. Especially if you played one after the other.

XY's story was alright but still pretty generic. ORAS is just RSE with mega evolution and primal reversion shoehorned in.

I really hope with Z we get more information on AZ. Also hopeful that perhaps GameFreak will try something different in Gen 7.
 
ExVicis said:
All I want out of a pokemon game is no more of their fucking dumb railroading.

"Oh no the path to all the major cities is blocked by one whole tiny tree! Guess you can't go."

"Sorry you can't go down this path, the whole road is being used right now for some asshole's pokemon battle"

"Oh no a Snorlax feel asleep on the highway! The highway is closed!"

You think after the many fucking years of this shit the Pokemon world would have ways to deal with and accommodate for this annoying shit.
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ChSeW6S.jpg


gamefreak pls

even the clowns were better


Honestly, I feel the main games are better served when they focus on the player's journey. You can still do the evil team, but make it more like Team Rocket. Team Rocket was basically the Yakuza, which is still more believable than the teams that failed basic elementary science or want to take over the world while twirling their evil mustaches.
 
I wish I could like the Mystery Dungeon series. Everybody praises their stories, but I can't get around the boring game built around said stories.

Azuran said:
But they have plenty of experimental spinoffs already and GameFreak hasn't worked on a single one of them.
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Almost none of their spin-offs feels like properly fleshed-out and well realized games to me, to be honest. Conquest was a good try, but still too mechanically shallow for a SRPG and has no sequel on sight. Mystery Dungeon appeals to a specific niche within the fanbase and that's good, but not enough. Colosseum and XD had potential that wasn't fully realized and have no spiritual sequels of any sort. Pokken is a step in the right direction because it feels like it's actually got a decent budget and care went into it. The other spin-offs feel more like mini-games and one-offs.

Now compare that to, say, Mario's spinoffs, which spawned critically-aclaimed franchises of their own such as Mario Kart (arguably bigger than its own mainline games nowadays), Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, Yoshi's Island, Wario Ware, Luigi's Mansion and so on. All of these are of a much higher caliber than anything the pokemon spin-offs have to offer. I'd like to see that kind of effort from Pokemon.
SMT is also a good example of spin-offs done right.

hydrophilic attack said:
isn't that what persona games are
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Persona multiplayer metagame when, Atlus? Get on with it!
 
Lynx_7 said:
Now compare that to, say, Mario's spinoffs, which spawned critically-aclaimed franchises of their own such as Mario Kart (arguably bigger than its own mainline games nowadays), Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, Yoshi's Island, Wario Ware, Luigi's Mansion and so on. All of these are of a much higher caliber than anything the pokemon spin-offs have to offer. I'd like to see that kind of effort from Pokemon.
SMT is also a good example of spin-offs done right.
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The fact that 3D Mario and 2D Mario exist side-by side while being similar genres is kind of interesting. The fact that Mario Kart may be bigger than either of them is pretty amazing.

I know the power of Pokemon is leveraged mostly through merchandising (movie, TV, prodcts, etc...) but I feel like if there's any Nintendo IP that can have several important gamelines within a single franchise that's not Mario, it should be Pokemon.

I guess the problem is, 3D Mario, 2D, Mario and Mario Kart developers are all top tier. For Pokemon, that's not the case.
 
i would be satisfied with a pokemon game that has a world more interesting than watching grass grow.
i couldn't finish the last game because the world just wasn't interesting and i didn't want to talk to anyone
 
I'd rather have a Pokemon game where the full depth of Pokemon's appeal is fully represented. Fuck a narrative-focused mainline Pokemon game IMO, that ain't even close to what Pokemon is about or needs to be. I want a Pokemon game where it feels like I'm just some kid in a truly weird and wild world, making his own way. I want the individuality and lore of each creature to be represented through more than just battles, because there's a lot more to Pokemon as creatures than just cockfighting analogues, even though the games rarely ever give the player that idea mechanically.

I'm just gonna drop this here like I always do. THIS is what I really want out of a Pokemon game, and at any rate, I feel like any step in this sort of direction would be a LOT more appealing in general, and would make for a much stronger Pokemon game, than a regular, battle-centric Pokemon game with an RPG plot.

This is my personal model for console Pokemon - something restrained mechanically relative to these MMO fever dreams but which would give the impression of a grand adventure ala my memories of the cartoon and my nostalgia for the old Pokemon culture, which through watercolor art, down to earth style, and a hefty dose of mystique, helped to conjure an image of a whole 'nother world, tangible and packed with new places and creatures to discover. Scale, interaction, freedom, from a close up, behind the back, third person perspective;

The region needs to encourage journeying as its own reward, as opposed to the tired and vapid satisfaction of defeating easy gym leaders in succession, which I feel marginalizes Pokemon a bit, putting its focus and progression entirely in combat and pushing the rest of what Pokemon is to the background. I envision a region with more than eight gyms, where gyms are shaped by the places around them and aren't always centered around straight up battling (i'm talking quizzes, puzzles, Contests, outside tasks, etc. emphasized on an equal level as battling), whose routes, towns, gyms, etc. can be tackled in a non-linear order.

Some of this could be enabled by a League Level - as you defeat other trainers and gym leaders (traditional Pokemon turn based battle system, no changes there), your trainer levels up in rank alongside your Pokemon. Other trainers and gyms will use different teams or teams at different levels depending. When you're searching for Pokemon, you can toggle between that area's normal selection of universally low-leveled Pokemon, or League Eye, which causes you to encounter higher-leveled variants more appropriate for your League Level.

Tall grass is an odd place for 80% of the world's creatures to all be hanging out together in. To make Pokemon encounters more natural and to make the ingame world seem like a more natural and organic place, the third person viewpoint is preferred. Encounters would still be mostly random when traveling through tall grass, but there would often be side opportunities to encounter Pokemon that appear in the game world - like Metapod hanging from trees along the Route, low-flying Taillow, a suspiciously gray rock in the path that turns out to be Geodude, bugs and bats on a high cave ceiling that attack when you walk under them, etc. etc. I'd want there to be lots of this, as much as humanly possible. Maybe even setpieces, like at one point you're adventuring through a tunnel and an Onix just busts the fuck through a wall.

HMs need to go entirely, to be replaced with something more Pokemon Ranger-esque - just take shitloads of existing moves and abilities and make them into overworld moves too, with overlapping effects (Cut = Slash = Fury Cutter, Swim = Aqua Jet = Levitate). You could still block certain activities, like cutting trees, moving stones, or swimming based on League Level or number of gym badges, but they should be rewards meant not to open previously blocked progress but to enable more exploration and secrets around the world as you obtain them.

The Pokedex needs to be important! It needs to have all these little details about all these Pokemon, unlocking little bits more the more you see them. It needs to be something you want to use to learn more about these creatures. Tap Nincada's wing after seeing Nincada a couple of times and it tells you a little tidbit about his wings;how they work;how he cleans them or what the fuck ever, just little details that lend more to the idea that you're some sort of pioneering explorer learning about Pokemon.

No arbitrary ass evil 'team' mucking things up. I understand the plot needs something to direct it - what about something like a looming natural disaster which forces humans and Pokemon together, or an annual tournament in the region, or just the promise of filling up a more substantial Pokedex?

Multiplayer matchmaking could be further refined through League Level and you could even have a second, compartmentalized online 'region' where trainers could walk around and challenge other trainers of the same level.
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I'd be down for a strong RPG story in a Pokemon game but I'd rather anything that's too heavy-handed or focused on storytelling be reserved for spinoffs. I really believe Pokemon needs an injection of freshness but through improved and new mechanics rather than just a stronger story overlaid on the same traditional Pokemon formula.

I'd still play whatever because it's Pokemon and I'm a sucker for that shit
 
I feel the same. The only way I could get back to the mainline series would be for a more story-focused game. I quit at B/W which wasn't even close to my expectations (although closer than the other ones).
But I do know that we will never get such a thing because of the target audience and the series ongoing success. As it was already said, this target audience doesn't care about story-focused games, and Game Freak/TPC has no reason to change their current formula (which proves to be a literal cash-machine every single time).

Our only chance lies in spin-offs. They made some attempts, such as the Mystery Dungeon series (only played the first one on the DS, I liked it but it's too far away from the original series), or the Colosseum/XD games and I really wish they would have dug deeper on this side, because, while still goofy, I still think it's the way to go for players wanting more sophisticated Pokémon games.
 
True Fire said:
Episode Delta was an experiment. Even if it wasn't implemented well, it a good sign for the future of the franchise.
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No it's was not. It was basically a visual novel with 5 pokemon battles interspersing it. Fans enjoyed it because it played into fan-fiction and allusions to the original Ruby/Sapphire of flying into space, but it was executed with little effort and became a wild goose chase solely for exposition. If that's the future of pokemon which it appears they are leaning towards given the truncated routes of X/Y and narrative fast travel options in ORAS, then it's a shame.
 
There's definitely a story to be told there about the evils of making animals fight to the death for the sake of sport. It could be very moving if done well. It would be a big change from the way the series glorifies this kind of fighting.
 
Solid Samus said:
I'd rather have a Pokemon game where the full depth of Pokemon's appeal is fully represented. Fuck a narrative-focused mainline Pokemon game IMO, that ain't even close to what Pokemon is about or needs to be. I want a Pokemon game where it feels like I'm just some kid in a truly weird and wild world, making his own way. I want the individuality and lore of each creature to be represented through more than just battles, because there's a lot more to Pokemon as creatures than just cockfighting analogues, even though the games rarely ever give the player that idea mechanically.

I'm just gonna drop this here like I always do. THIS is what I really want out of a Pokemon game, and at any rate, I feel like any step in this sort of direction would be a LOT more appealing in general, and would make for a much stronger Pokemon game, than a regular, battle-centric Pokemon game with an RPG plot.



I'd be down for a strong RPG story in a Pokemon game but I'd rather anything that's too heavy-handed or focused on storytelling be reserved for spinoffs. I really believe Pokemon needs an injection of freshness but through improved and new mechanics rather than just a stronger story overlaid on the same traditional Pokemon formula.

I'd still play whatever because it's Pokemon and I'm a sucker for that shit
Click to expand...

That's more or less what I mean when I say they should change the structure of the single-player campaign, though my "realistic" changes would be less ambitious and more in line with what you could expect gamefreak to make.

If we're straight up talking about a dream game, then there's a lot of stuff I'd like to see (and no, it doesn't include shoehorning every single region ever into a single game lol), but I just don't think Gamefreak is a talented enough developer to ever pull off anything truly ambitious like what a fully realised Pokémon World would look like. They're very competent at what they do and that's basically all they know how to do. Maybe if they handled one game over to EAD Tokyo, Monolith Soft, Retro or any of the other more talented Nintendo studios. The budget of said game would probably have to be a little bigger than what we're used to see from them, though.
 
Rainbowgun said:
pokemon-black-and-white-balling-up-on-march-6.jpg


Might wanna play these
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Black and White's story was too pretentious for its own good. N's Castle coming out of nowhere because Rule of Cool just epitomizes this.

The Pokémon games with the best stories are the ones that don't focus too much on the plot, and instead focuses on building its world. The world complements the barebones story in the games and elevates it. That's GSC/HGSS, DPPt, and RSE.
 
Ezalc said:
Sure it's dark, but it's such an out of place cringe inducing EDGE, that I can't see how anybody can say it was a good idea. Also, like another poster said, it was just another evil for evil's sake team. It didn't have any more story than the other gens that didn't focus on it. Just because they had some giant stupid cannon doesn't make it any better than trying to flood the world or create more land, which are both awful ideas for a variety of other reasons.

I just want an interesting evil team again that doesn't have some awful idiotic plan.
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Agreed. It felt non-sensical and cartoony. I hate villain teams where it makes no damn sense for the grunts to do what they do. While it may not have had a lot of nuance, I liked what Pokemon Gold did with Team Rocket and the remnants of the team feeling lost without their leader, trying to get his attention by doing what they think he'd like them to do.

They were doing shady stuff and harming Pokemon along the way like the other teams generally do, but it feels like every other team after them has had the same goal of capture the legendary pokemon on the game's box to and use its special x powers to do y. Black/White made it a bit more compelling, but I fear we're going to get the same damn thing next gen/game.
 
BW and BW2 where the best in this regard but yes, I would so much love for this to happen. Pokemon has a unique world and feel to it. The games so far have not come close to realizing the potential of the universe story wise. If their supporting characters had more than just a couple lines of dialogue that would be a good start.

I player the crap out of X and Y but surprisingly I have been unable to get myself motivated to finish my copy of Alpha Sapphire. I don't see them making any big changes at this point but I'll probably still come back for the mainline games in the future. Pokemon was my first gaming obsession and will always feel special to me because of that.
 
I also agree with the XY story criticisms, especially AZ. The story ending with him holding Floette and the "3,000 years" line is the first time where I was put off by the story in a Pokémon game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1miD_iNEGo

You know what's worse than not even attempting to have a story? When you fully invest in a story that turns out to be miserable.
 
Spin-off games like Mystery Dungeon are definitely story focused. The latest one...damn that is emotional, just like Explorers.

I don't think we'll ever see a main game where it's very story focused though. Black & White and X & Y did it rather well, but I wouldn't expect much more than how they did it.

wmlk said:
I also agree with the XY story criticisms, especially AZ. The story ending with him holding Floette and the "3,000 years" line is the first time where I was put off by the story in a Pokémon game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1miD_iNEGo

You know what's worse than not even attempting to have a story? When you fully invest in a story that turns out to be miserable.
Click to expand...

You're dead inside :(
 
Gold and Silver are the still the best Pokemon games from a JRPG perspective just because the route design was tight, it actually utilized pokemon's endgame, and the story was serviceable without being bogged down. I thought Black and White were closer and while I did think they weren't as good I admired the attempt.

Obviously that isn't what most people play Pokemon for (generally the campaigns are just there to build up to multiplayer) but I haven't loved a Pokemon game as dearly since.
 
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