Dragon1893
Member
lol I wasn't saying that. Of course they don't give a damn.
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I Want My Paper Manuals Back
- Thread starter On Demand
- Start date
lol I wasn't saying that. Of course they don't give a damn.
What proof do you have of this?
What I don't get is that we live in the age where text is easily readable on screen. Just include a digital manual on the main menu. You can take advantage of it being digital as well by having hyperlinks to terms and such, video snippets instead of static example images, and other stuff too.
I also miss paper manuals mainly due to nostalgia sake. I remember countless times as a kid during the car ride home after buying a game or two at the store and reading the manual to keep myself occupied until I could try out the game.
Can't see them really coming back and I'm fine if there is a manual included -- digitally. I'm sure certain publishers save too much money in not including them in physical copies now.
Can't see them really coming back and I'm fine if there is a manual included -- digitally. I'm sure certain publishers save too much money in not including them in physical copies now.
SirNinja
Member
I really miss the days of big manuals that actually contained quite a bit of backstory to them in addition to typical manual things. Bioware in particular had some big ones for Baldur's Gate 1&2, Icewind Dale, etc. Today you have to go out of your way to even get a digital manual, and even then it's more like a reference card explaining the controls and telling you to go to support.________.com if you have any problems.
Don't derail the thread with political shitposting.
Don't derail the thread with political shitposting.
THE Caffeinated
Member
Digital future.
My biggest problem with digital manuals is having to stop playing to look something up. I think a workable option (for me) would be to have the manuals free for download or at least free with purchase so that players can view them on any screen (via app, pdf, website, etc.) they want even when playing the game.
Manuals were very important when there was actual genre diversity in games and the industry was new. These days everything is an FPS or an MMO/MOBA and they all have more or less the same controls. The other game types usually are really well worn genres where the general controls "usually" can be picked up fairly easily in-line with the game.
Even having said that stuff though there's a need for manuals to detail the non-standard control elements that a lot of these games have that do create some separation from other games in the same genre (especially for fighting games.) Personally I think all companies involved in games should create a consortium of sorts to develop a game manual reader/format for computer and mobile devices so at least at that point there would be a standard in the look, the operation of and location of game manuals instead of the wild wild west of lack in the game manual department.
Even having said that stuff though there's a need for manuals to detail the non-standard control elements that a lot of these games have that do create some separation from other games in the same genre (especially for fighting games.) Personally I think all companies involved in games should create a consortium of sorts to develop a game manual reader/format for computer and mobile devices so at least at that point there would be a standard in the look, the operation of and location of game manuals instead of the wild wild west of lack in the game manual department.
MoGamesXNA
Unconfirmed Member
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eXistor
Member
What I don't get is that every game comes with paper warnings and legal stuff that literally nobody reads or wants, yet you hear no one complaining about that. On the other hand, manuals are seen as some environmental evil that must be stopped to save the planet.
Manuals add a lot to the end product, it means potentially not having shitty forced tutorials that drag the entire game down and it helps in justifying the high purchase price of games. I'd like different art on my disc and my (color) manual and my cover thank you, not the same generic art on everything with nothing but legal papers inside the box telling me how to insert the disc in 20 different languages.
As an anecdotal side-note I found it funny to hear my colleague bought a new watch a few weeks ago and it came in a leather-bound box. Actual leather. How's that for nature-friendly?
Manuals add a lot to the end product, it means potentially not having shitty forced tutorials that drag the entire game down and it helps in justifying the high purchase price of games. I'd like different art on my disc and my (color) manual and my cover thank you, not the same generic art on everything with nothing but legal papers inside the box telling me how to insert the disc in 20 different languages.
As an anecdotal side-note I found it funny to hear my colleague bought a new watch a few weeks ago and it came in a leather-bound box. Actual leather. How's that for nature-friendly?
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
I loved, LOVED reading paper manuals, the thicker the better. I would be less salty about them going away if the digital versions were just as thorough, creative, and well-designed as the best paper manuals, considering they have basically unlimited space to work with. But now they're mostly the equivalent of a pamphlet insert, regardless. Nobody can be bothered to put any effort into them anymore, paper or digital.
A great manual can set the tone for the game you're about to play, with lore, artwork, beginning tips and strategies, enemy descriptions, etc. The very best ones were "in-universe", i.e. in the form of a journal or survivor's guide, or supplemental information from your dad's Grail diary, and so on. There's no reason that creativity can't be put into a pdf except no one wants to.
Edit: And yes, if you find three-hour tutorials annoying then you also miss manuals whether you realized it or not.
A great manual can set the tone for the game you're about to play, with lore, artwork, beginning tips and strategies, enemy descriptions, etc. The very best ones were "in-universe", i.e. in the form of a journal or survivor's guide, or supplemental information from your dad's Grail diary, and so on. There's no reason that creativity can't be put into a pdf except no one wants to.
Edit: And yes, if you find three-hour tutorials annoying then you also miss manuals whether you realized it or not.
Phantom Flapjack
Member
I like how it's mostly the smaller publishers who are still providing manuals (and other goodies at no additional cost -- thanks, Xseed!) while the larger publishers are cutting corners to save pennies. Really pisses me off.
Is there any sort of online resource that details whether a game comes with a manual? And maybe other things, like on-disc DLC, day 1 patches, etc.? Basically, some sort of website designed to inform and fight against anti-consumer bullshit. It'd be nice to know what games to avoid buying new.
Is there any sort of online resource that details whether a game comes with a manual? And maybe other things, like on-disc DLC, day 1 patches, etc.? Basically, some sort of website designed to inform and fight against anti-consumer bullshit. It'd be nice to know what games to avoid buying new.
RPGCrazied
Member
I also miss them. They were epic during the PS2 era. jRPG's had big giant ones filled with character bios, story info, gameplay mechanics.
Sadly, its not going to come back.
Sadly, its not going to come back.
Namco got over this by printing it on the inside cover.
petran79
Banned
This is not a "special edition". This came with the game...
it seems today illiteracy hit a new low.....
C.Olimar788
Member
Outside of a few standout exceptions (WarioWare, Inc. comes to mind), paper manuals are really, really pointless. All the info you're asking for is just as available in the digital manuals most of the time, and printing excess paper manuals that most people don't care about is just a waste of paper.
I mean, I liked paper manuals when I was a kid and had nothing better to do than read through them, but in retrospect they're more than a little superfluous and I'm not really all that sad to see them gone.
I mean, I liked paper manuals when I was a kid and had nothing better to do than read through them, but in retrospect they're more than a little superfluous and I'm not really all that sad to see them gone.
Its pretty cute that some people think developers think like this. There have been games with absolutely slow and plodding intros, tons of tutorial stuff, guess what, those games had manuals. Also, strawman in that first paragraph. No one complains because people forget about the sliver sized sheet of paper. Get rid of that too, no one wants that shit. Also, I think your friend is going to use their watch, unlike game manuals, where the majority of people don't even look at the manual.
I rarely use the "majority" argument, but come the fuck on. The internet wasn't as fast or prevalent in the 90's and early 20th century. If you want to read up on something about the game, you can find hours of stuff detailing the smallest details. You want to look at pretty stuff? Look up artwork online.
Less paper waste and most games explain more than enough in-game already. This isn't the SNES era where storytelling was still so vague and they needed some kind of guide so you knew what was going on, who the characters were, and what power-ups you were picking up. Games are heavily tutorialized enough that the idea of needing pre-game reading material is silly.
They offer nothing of meaningful value anymore.
They offer nothing of meaningful value anymore.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Again, the assumption would be to get rid of the forced tutorial, and then you could wing it if you wanted to and look at the manual if you got stuck or preferred to read up before starting.
Fox Mulder
Member
I throw every eco case I get in the trash and replace it with a proper case. Fuck those dumb things.
krameriffic
Member
Yep. I remember reading the Warcraft 3 battle chest manuals on the shitter for years.
If I need to go elsewhere to understand their game, that's their own failure. Games should be conveying their mechanics through gameplay and context and nothing else. The idea that i need this additional resource is absolute nonsense and is a huge step backwards.
If a game has heavy tutorials, that's them fucking it up.
You made my day.
SmoothRunningGun
Member
This is not a "special edition". This came with the game...
Man, that brought back some memories.
Yessir.
The EA audience doesn't read manuals. Some people that buy niche RPGs buy all sorts of shit for niche games they like. Not shocking.
CosmicQueso
Member
Game prices have not kept pace with the rate of inflation.
You know, one of the most basic of economic principles.
Manuals used to be one of my favorite parts of the game. They really fleshed out those eight bit graphics and plots. There's nothing I love more than a nice, thick, lore-filled manual -- Darklands, man. Hell, Starcraft had a great manual.
I have high hopes for Pillars of Eternity in this regard.
I have high hopes for Pillars of Eternity in this regard.
BobbyRobby
Member
This was my favorite manual.
I used to pore over the Dragon Warrior 4 monster chart too.
Bootador83
Member
Paper manuals are one extra thing that needs to be kept in "like new" condition for a "like new" trade in.
For that reason I'm happy with the lack of manuals nowadays.
For that reason I'm happy with the lack of manuals nowadays.
I can't tell if this is supposed to be serious or not.
This is sort of how I feel. They don't really seem necessary. Overall, it was probably a waste. I was one of the few people I knew who even sat down and read through the manual before I even put the game in the system. I can't imagine they were ever really popular. Even a (relatively) small saving of paper is good.
Yep.
GravityMan
Member
Most people do not read manuals. They just pop the game in and start playing. I have no problem with companies doing away with paper manuals. Digital manuals are fine and possibly better depending on implementation.
It was only a matter of time before companies ditched them.
It was only a matter of time before companies ditched them.
This is not a "special edition". This came with the game...
Yeah but how many did they print? 10 000?
sixteen-bit
Member
I wonder if there's a market for fan-made manuals for games that never got one.
This, and since both major consoles (and wii U soon?) have phone/tablet apps, why not just make a section for digital manuals right in these apps.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Yup we don't need it.
DeviantBoi
Member
The Steam iPad app should show you your games' manual.
I suggested this to Gaben, but he never replied.
I suggested this to Gaben, but he never replied.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
That puts a hard limit on the possible depth or complexity of a game. Of course, "more complex" does not necessarily mean "better", but neither does a game requiring additional reference automatically make it "worse". You can't baby-step your way through an advanced flight simulator, for example. A strategy game, sim, or RPG could have complex rulesets that are brilliant but can't be handed to you piecemeal. Or tech trees, or dozens/hundreds of spells, or an encyclopedia, and so on. Maybe we're splitting hairs here over what's considered "in-game"--do you consider reference materials attached to the pause menu "contextual"?--but not everything can be elegantly folded into the active playing experience.
I'm not saying every game requires a manual, although I personally enjoy additional material in pretty much all cases, but neither does the requirement constitute a failure.
A lot of people here are dismissing manuals as just tutorials. Most of them were much more than that. It was something else that came with the game that made the price of the game more worth it, like a complete package instead of just a disc/cartridge. You had story summaries, character bios, exclusive artwork, maps, a place for notes, credits for the game in case you wanted to look someone up, etc.
I'm all for saving paper but I don't get why video game manuals have to be singled out, when there are shitty magazines and other stuff being made everyday.
I'm all for saving paper but I don't get why video game manuals have to be singled out, when there are shitty magazines and other stuff being made everyday.
I wonder too. The ones that come in Nintendo's games, even for major releases like 3D World or Mario Kart 8 had those pathetic control scheme pamphlets. The problem would be that a good quality production would likely cost a pretty penny to run... just doing the printing and distribution would probably be a challenge to do at a profitable scale, not to mention the people you'd have to get to design the mostly non-existent manuals themselves. Not sure who would take that risk, but it would be cool to see someone try.