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[Amir0x]

I believe in God, I just wish I believed he cared about us.

That's actually an interesting sub-group: those who actually believe in God, but are repulsed by his/her/its behavior. I wonder how large that group is.

Because I mean a great argument could be made that God did an abysmal job at creating this universe. 99.99999999999999999^10% of the universe is completely disgustingly lethal to all life, and life in all its form suggests a cruel, unfairly balanced universe.

 

[Knightmarre]

Yo op you don't need to believe in god, he believes in you or something to that effect.

Also, believing in god does not remove the fear of death nor it should.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Yo op you don't need to believe in god, he believes in you or something to that effect.

Also, believing in god does not remove the fear of death nor it should.

Never really got the point of this statement.

I don't fear death at all, I don't look forward to the process and aim to make it as painless as possible.

 

[Subpar Spatula]

While sleeping are you always aware that you exist? Unless I am dreaming and aware that I am dreaming, then I am not aware of anything. There is just a void between me falling asleep and waking up hours later. There's literally a gap in sentience during that night's rest. That gap is non-existence.

Do I fall asleep knowing I won't up? No. I fall asleep assuming I do. There is a huge difference.

 

[RoadHazard]

Sounds more like you wish you believed in the afterlife than God. Which I can agree with. Of course I wish I thought the end of my natural life wasn't the end of everything for me. But I don't.

I don't wish I believed in God though, at least not the one most religious people believe in. That spiteful, petty, small-minded, mean-spirited jerk is nothing to wish for.

 

[Zaptruder]

Like I said, your horror of non existance is in direct proportion to your joy of life. So, they more happy, the more horror. The more depressed, the better death looks. So you dread death so much. Be thankful about the joy of life you feel. Once your time comes, once old age drags you down, as your body withers and constant pain sets in, things will change, completely naturally.

Is this just your diagnosis for him or something you believe to be axiomatically true?

Because I feel a great joy for life... and yet I don't abhor death at all.

Indeed, I find death a necessary counterpoint to the value of life... our life is limited, and contains meaning, while death is meaningless. What can one do with such a realization but to value life and find death absent of meaning?

In other words... I seek to live life in a way that maximizes the value of the life lived, without consideration of the death that is inevitable.

There are studies showing you can dream pre REM and there are groups of people dedicated to sleep meditation. Wiki 'Turiya' if you can. Before this month I had no idea there was a name for this. Also, this past week and another week in May, I had dreamless sleeps. It wasn't nothing, which makes sense because your brain is still functioning, but if you pay attention you can still feel awareness. Not self consciousness mind you, just a simple sense of being.

Also, the problem with your assertion is that your tying memory to consciousness. If you blackout after drinking, but your body goes from the bar to your home, do you not exist? Did you not exist before childhood amnesia kicked in? We argue that death must be a certain way, but we have no frame of reference for it, so it's a little presumptuous to say that it's like something or the other for certain.

Edit: here's a quote from the wiki:

While my views concord with what you're expressing here... I find this line: "In dreamless sleep, one is not conscious of external or internal objects, and there is no awareness of thoughts or 'I'. This does not mean that consciousness is not present there. It is like saying 'I see nothing.' The recognition that nothing is what I 'see'. So also in dreamless sleep, one is not conscious of anything and the very fact that this statement is true proves the existence of consciousness during deep sleep." to be utterly unconvincing.

Not to say I don't believe some form of consciousness is present while we sleep - but it is very distinctly different from the normal conception of consciousness that we think - and thus when used in this way must be carefully defined and explained in order for the point to be salient.

 

[Nocebo]

I actually don't think this one is silly at all. I'm not talking about Jesus himself, I'm talking about the early church. People weren't stupid back then, they knew quite well people didn't raise from the dead. What happened to cause those early followers to be willing to die, to be fed to lions, to oppose Caesar, to take in the unwanted babies in the streets, etc.? We're not just talking immediate followers either, we're talking about a ripple effect of people in different locations, over the period of decades.

It's a worthwhile question to ponder, even if you don't believe in God. It's fascinating to me because most people would have just asked their friends that were around if this actually happened. I doubt many people would have jumped on board with a dangerous, minority, religion that was getting you slaughtered. Something historically/sociologically fascinating happened there, whatever it was.

There is nothing mysterious about people believing something that is true or not and be willing to die for it. It happens all the time.

You say people weren't stupid. While they certainly weren't mentally handicapped, I think you can say the way we (or the general population) think has changed over the decades. This video illustrates the idea a bit.
I think what's worthwhile to ponder: Was formal education a thing for the general population? Did people bother to fact check things? How hard or easy was it to even find the facts? Did they even care about "facts" and objective truths? How reliable is hearsay? Was hearsay more or less reliable than it is today? Do people get pumped up by an energetically delivered speech no matter the content? To what degree do people bother to fact check now in 2015 where all the information is available within a few seconds on a device they carry around in their pockets? Do people today, in this world of abundance of information, believe things that are undeniably false? Are they also willing to go to great lengths to defend those false beliefs?

Really it is not surprising that people of the past could easily believe in promises that may or may not have been false. And be willing to die for it. The fact that a belief has a strong opposition can even galvanize people. "See it must be true if they're trying to suppress people!" At any rate, if people are like that now in 2015 why wouldn't it be the same or even worse in the past?

 

[Dude Abides]

I believe in nothing, therefor anything is possible.

Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, at least it's an ethos.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I believe in God, I just wish I believed he cared about us.

What makes you think God doesn't care?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

That's actually an interesting sub-group: those who actually believe in God, but are repulsed by his/her/its behavior. I wonder how large that group is.

Because I mean a great argument could be made that God did an abysmal job at creating this universe. 99.99999999999999999^10% of the universe is completely disgustingly lethal to all life, and life in all its form suggests a cruel, unfairly balanced universe.

What makes you think God doesn't care?

Same gut feeling that makes me believe in God makes me believe He doesn't give a shit about people.

Spoiler

I'm not in a great mood tonight, so maybe that's coloring my thoughts at the moment.

 

[daninthemix]

What makes you think God doesn't care?

The answer to this is so universal it has its own Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

 

[MulderYuffie]

what if he was one of us

just a slob like one of us gafers

This song

Anyways I consider myself agnostic but feel the same as you OP it's really tough sometimes especially when you've lost people before and the closest ones/possible partners losing them to suicide especially when you are a "survivor" of it yourself. That's where the guilt really kicks in and you try to think of some way that they are in a better place. I don't know what to believe anymore honestly I so desperately want everyone to be okay and not hurt anymore but faith in religion has overall dwindled to me due to my family's pretty extreme views and how I was treated growing up being gay. I just like to think my loved ones overall are in that better place now instead of suffering it helps. Everyone hurts one way or another in this world and thinking and knowing they aren't puts me in a way better mood. I try to keep myself in a state of mind where i'm relaxed and try not to think such thoughts and remember them for the good times and just smile and when I die oh well that's it "The end" for me and I will no longer exist but if I die and wake up I will be with them again. Try to make the best of what we got in this world while we can it's what they would have wanted for us and what we will want for our loved ones who will see us pass on.

 

[zsswimmer]

It always seem like some sort of hard-coded rule that religious-themed topic in GAF will always devolve into personal attacks on the latter stages no matter how "peaceful" it seems at the beginning, hahaha.

As for me, I believe in God, and to be honest it does help me cope with some stuff and it does help me become a better person, although yes I do understand that an atheist can be a very good person and a religious person can be a sorry jackass, hahaha.

Well, just be good to others and live life happily, and that's it.

Ive noticed it too, but its not just gaf its a lot of internet sites. People just seem to just enjoy being smug about it, which is how some religious people are (often justly) made fun of. Im not a Christian but youre right about these types of threads devolving into the same content you see in most religious posts. I myself like seeing different viewpoints other than my own, you never know if something you read my strike a truth in you. And when it comes to science, which is great to have, I'd figure if there was a god it would probably exist outside of what humans could see or measure with the sciences.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Ive noticed it too, but its not just gaf its a lot of internet sites. People just seem to just enjoy being smug about it, which is how some religious people are (often justly) made fun of. Im not a Christian but youre right about these types of threads devolving into the same content you see in most religious posts. I myself like seeing different viewpoints other than my own, you never know if something you read my strike a truth in you. And when it comes to science, which is great to have, I'd figure if there was a god it would probably exist outside of what humans could see or measure with the sciences.

It is really a complex issue, one that tends to get lost rather quickly. Religion is typically something that individuals grew up within. A large amount of individuals had their lives shaped by religion, the degree of course varies. They were potentially raised with a heavy hand when it comes to proselytization, it shouldn't be too surprising that when they jettison that faith they still act/behave in the same manner. Normally, people move out of this mode; but, you will always have a fresh crop turning over at a rather consistent rate.

This is going to be a bit arrogant (cue shock) but an additional part of it deals with the rather tiresome nature of the discussion. I would wager that the majority of non-believers were once believers in some respect. Those individuals have gone through a rather difficult and potentially stressful transition. No one just abandons their faith lightly; yet this is seemingly the view of many believers. Some of those believers simply act like this is misplaced anger or rebellion, it is not. It takes twice as much soul searching to transition from belief to lack thereof. Individuals lose family members and friends over this.

Because of all this, some if not most non-believers react rather dismissively and/or smug when it comes to the average believer. They are tired, exceedingly tired of the traditional (as old as apologetic's) rhetoric that gets tossed out. For some reason some/many believers feel they are dropping a truth bomb that the other side hasn't already struggled with immensely.

 

[Lakitu]

Take some DMT, enough to have a breakthrough. After, everything will be fine.

This is good advice.

 

[Maengun1]

I don't care for organized religion, and I'm not particularly afraid of the concept of death.

Obviously no one can know the nature of the universe, and I'm not 100% sure there isn't some sort of divine creator being/force or whatever, but I am convinced there's no afterlife and all that. Most of that stuff hinges on humans being "special" and *put* on Earth, whereas it's abundantly clear we're just another animal who managed to evolve into something exceptional. Coincidentally. But in the eyes of the universe, we're no different than a fish or a mosquito or a grain of sand.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

Obviously no one can know the nature of the universe, and I'm not 100% sure there isn't some sort of divine creator being/force or whatever, but I am convinced there's no afterlife and all that. Most of that stuff hinges on humans being "special" and *put* on Earth, whereas it's abundantly clear we're just another animal who managed to evolve into something exceptional. Coincidentally. But in the eyes of the universe, we're no different than a fish or a mosquito or a grain of sand.

Brofist.

But what about space Jesus?

 

[zsswimmer]

It is really a complex issue, one that tends to get lost rather quickly. Religion is typically something that individuals grew up within. A large amount of individuals had their lives shaped by religion, the degree of course varies. They were potentially raised with a heavy hand when it comes to proselytization, it shouldn't be too surprising that when they jettison that faith they still act/behave in the same manner. Normally, people move out of this mode; but, you will always have a fresh crop turning over at a rather consistent rate.

This is going to be a bit arrogant (cue shock) but an additional part of it deals with the rather tiresome nature of the discussion. I would wager that the majority of non-believers were once believers in some respect. Those individuals have gone through a rather difficult and potentially stressful transition. No one just abandons their faith lightly; yet this is seemingly the view of many believers. Some of those believers simply act like this is misplaced anger or rebellion, it is not. It takes twice as much soul searching to transition from belief to lack thereof. Individuals lose family members and friends over this.

Because of all this, some if not most non-believers react rather dismissively and/or smug when it comes to the average believer. They are tired, exceedingly tired of the traditional (as old as apologetic's) rhetoric that gets tossed out. For some reason some/many believers feel they are dropping a truth bomb that the other side hasn't already struggled with immensely.

I live in Georgia and have been here all my life, so I understand growing up in a conservative environment and then having different ideas or eventually changing them. Your last sentence is on point but the opposite happens frequently too, people come into religious threads and state how pointless it is or how they just cant understand fairy tales, purposely starting the same cycle of shit posts about religion vs non religion as if that will ever get anywhere. Religious people can often be condescending and dismissive, yet I see people stoop to the same tactics that they themselves probably dislike about these religious people.

Anyways I dont think non believers are exactly under-represented on here, nor threads about how bigoted religious people can be, and there are plenty of cases where its justified, I just dont get the point of insulting people's intelligence over religious beliefs.

The smug atheist stereotype was something that I thought was vastly overblown and overstated by religious types to find something to get back at atheists but I'm beginning to think they weren't too far off the mark. Note I dont mean you of course, I'm talking about other posts, I definitely get where you're coming from.

In real life I try to be respectful regardless unless it isn't being returned, I think theres a better chance of maybe getting people to be more open about others beliefs that way

 

[Jombie]

Be glad there isn't.

 

[MaverickHunterX]

My personal opinion reminds me of this rant from one of the Roseanne Xmas Specials (wish I could find a clip...)

Roseanne: (when Bev wants to drop the conversation where she insinuated she doesn't believe in God) "No, we can't just drop this-- you think you're the only person that's been through stuff? I've been through stuff. But, ya know, but, I still believe in God, ya know-- I mean, I'd like to believe all the horrible, hideous crap that I have to wallow through every single day of my life, at some point, I will find out the MEANING to and the reason FOR, I mean, so I can be happy, you know what I mean? There just has to be a God. There IS! I swear to God there is a God! And, if there ain't, I've been screwed!!!"

Wonder if Joss Wheldon wrote that one...

 

[texhnolyze]

If your questioning it then You are on the right path.

Listen to this man.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

I live in Georgia and have been here all my life, so I understand growing up in a conservative environment and then having different ideas or eventually changing them. Your last sentence is on point but the opposite happens frequently too, people come into religious threads and state how pointless it is or how they just cant understand fairy tales, purposely starting the same cycle of shit posts about religion vs non religion as if that will ever get anywhere. Religious people can often be condescending and dismissive, yet I see people stoop to the same tactics that they themselves probably dislike about these religious people.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Again, I think there is a bit of left over proselytization 'left over' as individuals transition. The aforementioned style of rhetoric is typically something that individuals seemingly discard over time. I'm not excusing the behavior, even if I can still be a smug ass about it from time to time.

Anyways I dont think non believers are exactly underrepresented on here, nor threads about how bigoted religious people can be, and there are plenty of cases where its justified, I just dont get the point of insulting people's intelligence over religious beliefs.

You're right. I do think though there is a very fine line between fostering a robust debate and stifling one. Shit posting is still shit posting, the moderation tends to sort it out rather well. One of the larger problems with religious discussion is the tendency for believers to exclaim truth. If that was dropped you would more than likely have a much better discourse.

The smug atheist stereotype was something that I thought was vastly overblown and overstated by religious types to find something to get back at atheists but I'm beginning to think they weren't too far off the mark. Note I dont mean you of course, I'm talking about other posts, I definitely get where you're coming from.

Oh, well it is rather overblown; in the same manner that the overzealous religious type tends to be overblown. Vocal minority and all that. Again, I find that those that 'recently' lost their faith tend to be the most vocal. They tend to be the most over zealous, this shouldn't be too surprising. After all, they just lost a significant to very significant portion of their life.

 

[AzureFlame]

As a Muslim I feel good and strong, I thank Allah everyday for this bless.

 

[DeVeAn]

I am far from religious but, I can tell you this. When you are ready you will know it. We are in a constant battle with our own minds. You are missing something in your life when your mind wanders like that. That is my experience. Go find it. Recent events in my life, I am positive God had a hand in happening. What I choose to do with it is up to me.

Good luck, listen to your gut and trust yourself.

 

[SkeptiMism]

It is a curious thing that these threads always deteriorate to the question of whether god, gods, or any other kind of supernatural anthropomorphism, exist or not. Despite the title, that wasn't even what the OP was about.

OP explicitly stated that he cannot bring himself to believe in such things anyway. Indeed, forcing yourself to believe such things is just not possible, once you are convinced by the pretty good evidence against the existence of such things, as well as by the equally good evidence strongly suggesting that these beliefs are manmade and rooted in the particularities of the human mind.

Arguing conclusively that no god/gods exist is not really hard. It is more interesting and beneficial to address the "Ok, now what?" questions that follow. Religions have a long history of claiming the exclusive authority on topics like death. And they traditionally provide the major community in which these topics are discussed. What we need are attempts to change this situation by providing secular philosophy and community. Ideally, the offerings should be more substantial than just saying "Well, that's just how it is."

The thought came to me reading this thread too.

There have been some attempts to it though (atheist communities) and some of them are quite successful I think, but it might be good if secular organizations like freethinkers and such strived to drive at least some very basic philosophic views about death.

I also think we should strive to teach our kids to think very differently of death. I think we should concentrate on teaching ourselves to live our life to the best we can and then when death comes, celebrate that we lived our lives fully and accept death as a natural end to it.
It wouldn't be an easy change to make, but if we taught this right from childhood, maybe people wouldn't have so much existential crises.

Positive things happen to positive people. Negative people draw negative events into their lives. There's "coincidences" that happen that make me question whether anything is based on chance.

I do believe that some things are destined to happen. Like certain events are encoded into the Universe.

Also, it might have been designed by some higher race of beings. Bound with a set of rules that make planets and stars and life possible.

"Logic" when it comes to human belief toward the Universe has never been set in stone. 100 years ago it wasn't logical to think there were billions of galaxies out there.

Your experience (as seen in further posts from this) is unfortunate, so please don't take this buttheading (by the way, that guy got banned), but I do think that is, in a way, kind of cruel way to look at life. It's kind of similar to the view "if you work hard, you'll succeed" - it's just not true and it undermines the work and life of a lot of people. A lot of bad things happen to good people and to imply that they drew those events into their life by being negative isn't very nice.

A lot of bad people are also rather successful.

For someone who have questioned God till a time where I see His work unfold in front of my eyes in my life and others around me. I will say, keep looking for Him.

For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. If you really wanna seek answers, pray to Him. He will answer. Maybe not in the way you will expect, but He will...

As the OP has said, he's not interested in looking for Him and it's not really the topic here.

Anyway, as has also been brought up in the thread, with atheists you can't just say look for Him, but you also need to have the atheist to believe in any divinity at first. Then comes the part in which you need to convince the atheist that your God is the one true god and the other gods aren't worth believing in. Followers of pretty much every religion tell to seek to their god and then he'll answer in some way.
Not to offend you here, but it's just how I view it as an atheist (and a lot of other people do it too).

I also look at it psychologically. Like sure, you can open your mind to just about anything if you really wish, whether it's aliens or conspiracy theories or God or Allah or the Hindu gods or whatever. If people leave out their logic and just completely open themselves, they can believe in anything. Again, not to offend or anything.

I'd be interested though how you see God's work unfold in your life and others around you.

 

[MEsoJD]

I believe in God, I just wish I believed he cared about us.

Maybe, just maybe... it doesn't exist?

 

[User 479360]

I know how you feel, OP. I do believe, or at least try to, but I question life a lot.

My closest family member has dealt with serious health problems over the last several years, and it scares me shitless. Thankfully, they seem to be well now, and are only immobile - something which they're working on via rehab.

However, I know that there will be a day where I will lose her. It's inevitable, and it's nightmarish. I don't know how people cope with the loss of a close loved one, because I don't know if I'll be able to. I think it'll destroy me.

Now, I have mental illness and for a lot of my life, was very dependent on said person. I'm not as much anymore, but they're everything to me. Without them, I'll be lost with little interest in going on.

I just wish I knew that they'll be okay, and whether or not I'll see them again. I want there to be a Heaven mostly for that reason. But I fear I'm a bad person who will end up in Hell anyways.

I hate the unknowns in life, because I want direction and things to be mapped out. I don't do well when it's not there. Most of all, though, I want the comfort of knowing.

 

[Langdon Alger]

What makes you think God doesn't care?

Well, to take one of a million examples, twenty thousand children starve to death every day.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

Belief in an unprovable being that many claim acts "beyond human understanding" is an amazing thing. Even more incredible than the whole the eyeball is sooooo fuckin' cool that evolution couldn't have done it idea.

The truth is out there.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

People try to use science to argue against religion, and try to convince people that what they believe isn't true. To me, now, that seems almost like some sort of crime. If you're successful in that endeavor, and convince someone that what they believe isn't true. You rob them of, in my eyes, one of the best things ever. Something to look forward to, after you die.

Science and religion should complement each other. Believing they are opposites means your view is limited. Don't listen to people who are sure they are right in dismissing the other side.

It's not that easy, for me the idea of believing there is a god is childish and ignorant. It's not a switch I can turn on/off. If we at least had one piece of evidence, it would be easier.

God is the universe. If you understand there's a universe that encompasses more than yourself, you believe in god. It's as simple as that.

Childish is thinking that you're all that matters.

 

[The Mule]

Belief in God is a large prison for your mind that is just big enough to make you feel like you're free. There's something comforting about knowing your boundaries, what's right and wrong, and that your world is under someone's control so you don't have to worry about it.

There are definitely some perks to such belief, but they're shallow and won't endure the long count of reality. They're not even that great in the relatively short time span of a human life, though many people don't see it that way.

 

[SkeptiMism]

God is the universe. If you understand there's a universe that encompasses more than yourself, you believe in god. It's as simple as that.

That's just one view and it seems a bit silly to say "it's as simple as that". You seem to be a pantheist, that's fine, but others don't share your beliefs.

Childish is thinking that you're all that matters.

Does he say somewhere he thinks he's all that matters?

 

[Transhuman]

Because I mean a great argument could be made that God did an abysmal job at creating this universe. 99.99999999999999999^10% of the universe is completely disgustingly lethal to all life, and life in all its form suggests a cruel, unfairly balanced universe.

I didn't know that 9.99999% of the universe was Ohio.

Hey-oh!

 

[trinest]

Honestly I don't cxare if there is nothing. It is just the transition, from conscious to nothing which scares the fuck out of me instead.

 

[Langdon Alger]

God is the universe. If you understand there's a universe that encompasses more than yourself, you believe in god. It's as simple as that.

The vast majority of people who believe in God don't think that God is just the universe. And if you do think that God is just the universe, then why don't you just call the universe "the universe"? Why would you call the universe God? You're just making an issue more confusing than it needs to be for no reason.

 

[kevm3]

Why can't you believe? If you would find comfort in it then what do you gain for not believing? If this world ended and there was no God after, then you wouldn't know.

 

[tbd]

People try to use science to argue against religion, and try to convince people that what they believe isn't true. To me, now, that seems almost like some sort of crime. If you're successful in that endeavor, and convince someone that what they believe isn't true. You rob them of, in my eyes, one of the best things ever. Something to look forward to, after you die.

Indeed. Those people are usually children and/or pretty stupid, though. I pity them because they sure will cry like there is no tomorrow when one of their loved ones dies.

 

[BocoDragon]

Why can't you believe? If you would find comfort in it then what do you gain for not believing? If this world ended and there was no God after, then you wouldn't know.

Because the cycle of endless rebirth was real, and you wasted your life on the silly dichotomy of theism vs. atheism.

People's theological concerns are so ethnocentric.

 

[Transhuman]

Why can't you believe?

Because you can't give yourself a placebo.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

That's just one view and it seems a bit silly to say "it's as simple as that". You seem to be a pantheist, that's fine, but others don't share your beliefs.

Does he say somewhere he thinks he's all that matters?

I might be wrong but I think most religions say that God is everything. Is it not so? I accept that some people see God as a more limited being, but I don't think that works too well.

And I never said he is childish. I said that's what I think is childish.

The vast majority of people who believe in God don't think that God is just the universe. And if you do think that God is just the universe, then why don't you just call the universe "the universe"? Why would you call the universe God? You're just making an issue more confusing than it needs to be for no reason.

You can call it whatever you prefer, but you're just confusing yourself. There's no issue here. I'm not here to tell you what to believe, as people will believe whatever fits their comprehension. I'm just suggesting people broaden their views a little bit.

 

[BocoDragon]

I might be wrong but I think most religions say that God is everything. Is it not so? I accept that some people see God as a more limited being, but I don't think that works too well.

And I never said he is childish. I said that's what I think is childish.

Western traditions generally see God as a being who is outside of you, separate from you, and created a separate "creation" world that you live in.

It's the Eastern tradtions that tend to see God as being the world itself. All is one, you are God, everything is God, etc. But they've just translated their conceptions with the Western term "God".

Obviously that's been blurred in the last century or two as all the cultures have intermingled and reconciled their traditions with one another. But when I hear language like "God" I think "Western tradition". "God the father who made creation and has lots of opinions for how your should live your life".

Personally, I do not agree with those conceptions of the world, and so I shy away from the term God to avoid those connotations. I don't think there is an opinionated father-being who has all sorts of demands of me.

 

[efyu_lemonardo]

When I was a little kid I believed god was a dog, because they are the same word spelled backwards.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Everything seems too perfect in the Universe for it not to be designed in some way.

What part of it seems perfect? I mean, even most of our own planet is inhospitable for us, never mind the universe as a whole.

 

[TheOnlyOneHeEverFeared]

I tend to think god acts through people as vessels, rather than not him caring.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Western traditions generally see God as a being who is outside of you, separate from you, and created a separate "creation" world that you live in.

It's the Eastern tradtions that tend to see God as being the world itself. All is one, you are God, everything is God, etc. But they've just translated their conceptions with the Western term "God".

Obviously that's been blurred in the last century or two as all the cultures have intermingled and reconciled their traditions with one another. But when I hear language like "God" I think "Western tradition". "God the father who made creation and has lots of opinions for how your should live your life".

Personally, I do not agree with those conceptions of the world, and so I shy away from the term God to avoid those connotations. I don't think there is an opinionated father-being who has all sorts of demands of me.

But the Eastern traditions still don't see the the universe the same way most materialist atheists see the universe. So when the guy who's post you're responding to calls God "the universe", or says that God is everything and everywhere, there are going to be huge issues because he (and presumably these Eastern traditions as well) still have every different conceptions of what "everything" and "the universe" are than materialist atheists do.

 

[BocoDragon]

But the Eastern traditions still don't see the the universe the same way most materialist atheists see the universe. So when the guy who's post you're responding to calls God "the universe", or says that God is everything and everywhere, there are going to be huge issues because he (and presumably these Eastern traditions as well) still have every different conceptions of what "everything" and "the universe" are than materialist atheists do.

I think its not that different. But of course everyone's view of the universe is different.

 

[The Spoony Hou]

Western traditions generally see God as a being who is outside of you, separate from you, and created a separate "creation" world that you live in.

It's the Eastern tradtions that tend to see God as being the world itself. All is one, you are God, everything is God, etc. But they've just translated their conceptions with the Western term "God".

Obviously that's been blurred in the last century or two as all the cultures have intermingled and reconciled their traditions with one another. But when I hear language like "God" I think "Western tradition". "God the father who made creation and has lots of opinions for how your should live your life".

Personally, I do not agree with those conceptions of the world, and so I shy away from the term God to avoid those connotations. I don't think there is an opinionated father-being who has all sorts of demands of me.

I see your point. But I was raised as a catholic and I've always heard that God is in everything, which means that everything is a part of God. That's the way I see it, although I understand many don't.

Me too, I don't speak of God exactly because of those connotations you mentioned. Religious people often think God is a very judgmental being who will damn you for the silliest things.

That's why my point is to broaden your view. No religion is wrong, no science is wrong. We all are here to try to understand this world, and what is beyond it.

 

[BocoDragon]

I see your point. But I was raised as a catholic and I've always heard that God is in everything, which means that everything is a part of God. That's the way I see it, although I understand many don't.

Me too, I don't speak of God exactly because of those connotations you mentioned. Religious people often think God is a very judgmental being who will damn you for the silliest things.

That's why my point is to broaden your view. No religion is wrong, no science is wrong. We all are here to try to understand this world, and what is beyond it.

I can totally agree with broadening and understanding

 

[NeloAnjelo]

This is a great post, and I also ponder these things. The thing about faith and belief is that it's down to you. You can believe in an afterlife, but no should tell you to follow one specific path or religion, and no one should object if you do.

Nothing is wrong with hope and feeling hope at the time of death. I for one believe there is life after death. I am not religious, but I hope for something after and as a result it gives me peace of mind. Others believe in life, science etc, none of this wrong. You take the best of what is out there and hope that this gives you enough.

Many say live for today... what does that mean to you? Don't think about death, think about life. This life. It doesn't have to be religious to think there is something after.

 

[Annoying Old Party Man]

OP (and everyone in here), please read this:

http://www.angel.net/~nic/askitiki.html