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If it's not the games, then what is it???
- Thread starter MrPonx
- Start date
What games has Wii Sports influenced, exactly? Wii Sports is a five minute romp of a couple of different sports with the clumsiest controls I've ever touched. All of those sports have had tons of games made based off of them before Wii Sports came out. Are you referring to motion control in sports? If you are I'd say it's pretty ridiculous to assume that it wouldn't be done at one point or another in the Wii's lifetime. Not only that, but that it will be done better. My problem with Wii Sports is not that it's a casual pack-in game to hook people of all ages, it's that I don't think it's a very fun game. How people play that game more than the first week of owning a Wii is beyond me.BTRA said:
No, in the UK 360 is cheaper than Wii (£159.99 gets you a 360 Arcade, Wii is still at £180), Wii is STILL destroying both 360 and PS3 at retail here, the market mindshare has shifted to Wii this gen here.mwgiii said:
There is a simple reason (Again UK specific) reason why Wii is winning; Marketing, from the Store front to the Ads on the TV, Nintendo has marketed Wii so much better than 360 or PS3, it is socially acceptable to own a Wii here, it isn't seen as the console you put in a teenagers gaming dungeon (See the Gamecube basement), but a console that you could literally play with your nan (eep).
As much as some silly troll like people here (Drinky, this means you) like to dismiss it, Wii is the market leader, it isn't going away, and, going by current reports/rumours, actual games might be made for the system too, as scary as that concept is.
One question I must ask to the Anti-Wii brigade is this: Did you guys reject the PS2 this much too? yet again, it was a console that was marketed as more of a casual console than anything else in the UK (And I'm sure elsewhere), Franchises like Singstar, EyeToy, Buzz, Gran Turismo (Really, I know people who own GT3/4 and NOTHING else for their PS2), and the GTA series pushed the system here, while hardcore games also found success because of the massive userbase, the games were created because of the PS2s success, they did not create it.
Oh, and people here are confusing Gaf with reality, while Gaf may have got bored with Wii Sports and in some cases, Wii entirely, the general public and media hasn't, frankly in the grand scheme of things, Gaf is irrelevant, which I think is why the "hardcore" are rattling the cage so much.
For a console to work, you need more than games.
You need a combination of 2 things: A point of curiosity + good pricing.
This gen is showing us that 299$ is still the price to not go over for consoles. When both the 360 (best model) and PS3 (best model) will be under 299 we will be talking.
The Wii is having the curiosity point (Wii Remote + original marketing that ensues) and then price kicks ass. (reinforced by the 360 and PS3 in comparison).
You need a combination of 2 things: A point of curiosity + good pricing.
This gen is showing us that 299$ is still the price to not go over for consoles. When both the 360 (best model) and PS3 (best model) will be under 299 we will be talking.
The Wii is having the curiosity point (Wii Remote + original marketing that ensues) and then price kicks ass. (reinforced by the 360 and PS3 in comparison).
thanks said:
I guess you don't know of countless institutions buying the Wii for Wii Sports to help patients, or for the elderly. Or the fact that Wii Sports is the reason (outside of the hardcore Nintendo fans) that the Wii is selling on an insane level.
The fact of the matter is, without Wii Sports, the Wii would not be a successful as it is today. That said, that is theoretical I know, but, I believe we all know this to be true.
That has nothing to do with other games, you said it was influential. I didn't discredit it's mass appeal or deny the Wii selling like hot cakes whether it's due to Wii Sports or not. You completely didn't read my post, did you?BTRA said:
Regardless, to the actual OP, I honestly think it's too many variables to keep track of. If you could, wouldn't there be formulas somewhere saying whether or not a console will be successful? The mass consumer market is too fickle, and I guess my only explanation is that things sometimes just click.
British Monsoon
Member
MrPonx said:
Wow. I used to a be a huge Nintendo fan, but it was the sparse catalogue of awesome N64 games that turned me away from Nintendo to begin with. The 64, the Cube and the Wii all have some great titles, but the quantity has never been high enough. I find myself waiting for months on end for the next big title while my Nintendo sits there unused and innevitably I have to purchase another console to fully placate my gaming needs. With the Cube & the 64 though it was lack of 3rd party support that led me to other consoles, the Wii however has great 3rd party support, pity i'm not interested in non-games and shovel-ware.
thanks said:
You know, for those of GAF with a Wii that also hate Wii Sports, I wonder how many of them would go through an experiment of playing the game for at least half an hour a day, doing whatever you want from just one single sport to the training mode. I don't even have a hypothesis yet, I'm just curious.
Wii Sports will be seen as influential as an ideology. Many of the other hated top selling Wii games follow the Wii and Wii Sports mantra as keeping it simple and accessible, with lots and little to do, for many or for few.
Are people talking about the PS3 non-gamers? You know, the people who only bought a PS3 for blu-ray and don't actually play any games at all. Or... are we talking about the Wii non-gamers that play games that just happen to be hated by a very small segment of the gaming industry what thinks it's actually important? Which ones are hated more by the "hardcore" 
lol )? The non-non-gamers of the PS3 or the gaming-non-gamers of the Wii? I really need to know so I can start really getting in their faces about their shitty personal preferences when they come into my store to buy something they want with their money.
I can tell you one (of many) of the reasons the Wii is a success. The controller. It should be obvious that people find it intriguing and then later after using it, entertaining. Is that surprising? Up until Sony started controlling the industry new hardware generations were usually prodominately marked by an updated input device and interface along with incremental graphical upgrades (in order to keep price at something that wouldn't crash and burn immediately upon arrival as the history of the console video game industry has proven time and time again) and various other relatively minor hardware upgrades. Yet Sony has released the same fucking controller for three generations now. Is it any surprise that most people out there (You know, the 100 million "casual" gamers from last gen) are looking at the offerings outside of the Wii as a little redundant or tired at this point(considering the price of entry)?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of video games regardless of manufacturer, developer or publisher. As long as games are good and worth the money I'm there every time but even I felt insulted when Sony released virtually the same controller, yet again, for their newest console. Makes me feel like they don't even care about trying to push in new directions in an area I feel is incredibly important to the long term health of the industry. At least MS refined their shit (and oh is it comfortable) and they're freakin console war noobs.
I'm tired and still pissed that Sony abandoned the ways of the PS2 (arguably the best system in video game history) to fucking chase Microsoft down green-gill valley (bleeding edge unnecessary expensive tech, catering to the niche rather than the mainstream, bleeding money, narrowing genre's, etc etc).
I love my 360 too though... but definitely not because of Microsofts feeble attempts at creating compelling experiences but because of 3rd parties who are willing to supply the funds necessary (even with diminishing roi) to make some seriously badass games that look and play amazing and because of live arcade. I'm a sucker for face-lifted classics or new looks at forgotten genres. I hate ranting, so I'm sorry if you actually read through this and want to kill me now. It should go without saying, but I clearly have conflicted feelings about this generation... very much love/hate at basically every point possible.
lol )? The non-non-gamers of the PS3 or the gaming-non-gamers of the Wii? I really need to know so I can start really getting in their faces about their shitty personal preferences when they come into my store to buy something they want with their money.I can tell you one (of many) of the reasons the Wii is a success. The controller. It should be obvious that people find it intriguing and then later after using it, entertaining. Is that surprising? Up until Sony started controlling the industry new hardware generations were usually prodominately marked by an updated input device and interface along with incremental graphical upgrades (in order to keep price at something that wouldn't crash and burn immediately upon arrival as the history of the console video game industry has proven time and time again) and various other relatively minor hardware upgrades. Yet Sony has released the same fucking controller for three generations now. Is it any surprise that most people out there (You know, the 100 million "casual" gamers from last gen) are looking at the offerings outside of the Wii as a little redundant or tired at this point(considering the price of entry)?
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of video games regardless of manufacturer, developer or publisher. As long as games are good and worth the money I'm there every time but even I felt insulted when Sony released virtually the same controller, yet again, for their newest console. Makes me feel like they don't even care about trying to push in new directions in an area I feel is incredibly important to the long term health of the industry. At least MS refined their shit (and oh is it comfortable) and they're freakin console war noobs.
I'm tired and still pissed that Sony abandoned the ways of the PS2 (arguably the best system in video game history) to fucking chase Microsoft down green-gill valley (bleeding edge unnecessary expensive tech, catering to the niche rather than the mainstream, bleeding money, narrowing genre's, etc etc).
I love my 360 too though... but definitely not because of Microsofts feeble attempts at creating compelling experiences but because of 3rd parties who are willing to supply the funds necessary (even with diminishing roi) to make some seriously badass games that look and play amazing and because of live arcade. I'm a sucker for face-lifted classics or new looks at forgotten genres. I hate ranting, so I'm sorry if you actually read through this and want to kill me now. It should go without saying, but I clearly have conflicted feelings about this generation... very much love/hate at basically every point possible.
And that's why you hate the Wii? Those are all niche genres that barely get made or bought anywhere. I'd argue that the Wii isn't far behind the other consoles in these genres with Fire Emblem alone, probably even ahead if you count the Virtual Console.Drinky Crow said:
It's certainly not doing worse than the Gamecube or the N64 before it.
BTRA said:
In my opinion it's just a fun tech demo. Sure, both old geezers and the youth are picking up wii-remotes, but how does that make it the most influential software since SMB? Wii sports evokes the 'keep it simple' mantra because its on limiting hardware. It was an ingenious move by Nintendo to showcase the acceptable visual and sound quality of games on their new platform because they still managed to keep things fun.
to the op: I don't know how you could get by with an N64 and Gamecube. I had an n64 and was a late adopter of a ps1, but I had a capable PC all along the way. Without a pc, I'd be climbing up the walls.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I'm not sure I get what you're trying to say. Clearly we've seen much more complex sports setups on much more limited hardware than Wii.Proc said:
Then you must suck then because the controls are anything but clumsy for me especially bowling its damn near perfect. Just admit you suck at the wiimote. Its nothing to be ashamed of I know lots of core gamers who do they just can't adapt which is odd to me since the controller was built around simplicity.thanks said:
Pureauthor
Member
Haunted One said:
Isn't that all he ever does?
Let me rephrase. For me and many others the controls for 4 out of the 5 wiisports games feel great. They aren't just easy to learn but they feel great to us and those who claim the controls are "clumsy" they are in a vast vast minority of core gamers who could not adapt (if they even really tried). You can't play the Wii with a chip on your shoulder ready to hate it which is what a lot of GAF probably did.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
That the definition of awesome isn't a constant among all humans.Endow said:
JoshuaJSlone said:
If the games I mentioned weren't accessible games I could agree with you. Those games were generally very well received by pretty much anyone that played them. I know of no one game that was well marketed and was generally perceived as a quality title, and did not sell well.
Pureauthor
Member
Endow said:
You want to know why? Because only the hardcore - the people most likely to know in advance if they would like the game or not - were the ones who knew the game(s) existed.
DeaconKnowledge
Member
It's always, always been about the games, and always will be.
The only thing that changed from last gen to this one is the games that are seeing this kind of popularity. The market has opened to people who are more accepting of different ideas, people to whom videogames are new.
This is no different than what happened when the PS1 came on the market. More people have come in to play games, and they are buying what they want.
Grand Theft Auto isn't popular because Message board troglodytes snap it up religiously; it's popular because it reaches out PAST that demographic.
The only thing that changed from last gen to this one is the games that are seeing this kind of popularity. The market has opened to people who are more accepting of different ideas, people to whom videogames are new.
This is no different than what happened when the PS1 came on the market. More people have come in to play games, and they are buying what they want.
Grand Theft Auto isn't popular because Message board troglodytes snap it up religiously; it's popular because it reaches out PAST that demographic.
Pureauthor
Member
DeaconKnowledge said:
TSR's gonna lose his bet, you know.
bigmakstudios
Banned
Shaheed79 said:
I disagree. For one, the controls aren't anywhere near being realistic. The only way to play the games properly is to use acute wrist flicks. Broad movements aren't recognized properly, and consistently result in lobs instead of low, fast returns, etc in tennis. Boxing probably has some of the worst controls I've ever tried to adapt to in a video game. I'd be surprised to find someone who could, with any accuracy, perform specific types of punches. Boxing seems to be programmed with a very limited range of motions in mind, and so it's very difficult to replicate punches consistently.
And I dislike the Wii because it's on pace to become the best selling console ever (I think), but it's almost entirely lacking in quality video games. I don't care what circumstances have brought about Wii's success... all that matters to me is that there are only 2 games which I have really enjoyed for it that weren't ports of Gamecube games: Metroid Prime 3: Corruption and Super Mario Galaxy. And I'd say that Gamecube definitely had a better, more varied library than Wii does at the moment, if only because it received multiplatform games like Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell, Timesplitters, and Beyond Good and Evil, among many. Wii's only genre of strength, on the other hand, seems to be shallow party games, which to me, aren't worth playing at all.
Maybe you should go look at some youtube videos of veteran players playing Tennis and Boxing and be "surprised". I would post my own but I don't have access to a camcorder.bigmakstudios said:
P.S. I cut off the second half of your post because I don't care why you don't like the Wii.
I see a game like Rock Band and GH as being way more influential and revolutionary than Wii sports. Anyway.
I think the Wii is doing so well because of the marketing. Nintendo "tricked" the general public into thinking that the future was now. You could mimic the actions of your on screen character with similar motions. I remember the commercials before the Wii released. You saw people jumping behind their couches, doing rolls to avoid bullets, jumping all over the place etc. All you had to do was flick your wrist. I'm still waiting for a game that nails the motion controls, I think Metroid was the best thus far. I purposely look for games that do not require many motion controls because they are so hit and miss.
I think the Wii is doing so well because of the marketing. Nintendo "tricked" the general public into thinking that the future was now. You could mimic the actions of your on screen character with similar motions. I remember the commercials before the Wii released. You saw people jumping behind their couches, doing rolls to avoid bullets, jumping all over the place etc. All you had to do was flick your wrist. I'm still waiting for a game that nails the motion controls, I think Metroid was the best thus far. I purposely look for games that do not require many motion controls because they are so hit and miss.
Wolves Evolve
Member
These threads are always amazing, but this one has a certain desperation and madness to it that I'm finding extra spicy. Is it really that hard to accept that a Wiimote is considered more technologically advanced than a Blu-Ray drive? Does that surprise anybody? Really?
Remember that Gunpey Yokoi (Game Boy, Game and Watch designer) wrote most of his life about "Lateral Thinking on Withered Technology." Its a business model. One you can see the results of right here.
Remember that Gunpey Yokoi (Game Boy, Game and Watch designer) wrote most of his life about "Lateral Thinking on Withered Technology." Its a business model. One you can see the results of right here.
Pureauthor
Member
Endow said:
No, I think you missed mine - the whole reason the games are universally praised by those who played them is because the vast majority of the people who played them already knew beforehand that they would indeed like that sort of game.
Mgoblue201
Won't stop picking the right nation
I don't know what people are referring to when they say marketing. It might mean some broad, amorphous hype factor, but you can't sell an unsellable game. Sales can be hard to predict, but they're not incredibly complicated. Quality has something to do with it. There is also a sellable factor. I think most people can agree that Okami was a tough sell. But how much worse would it have sold if it was a mediocre game? Did its quality maximize sales of its concept? Let's say you take a popular, sellable concept and turn it into a great game. Chances are it will sell, right? Perhaps one can even take a sellable product and make a mediocre game and still see sales. But would it have sold even better if it was a great game?
There is a bit more to it than that. There are anomalies. There's a discussion of what a sellable idea is in the first place. And the degradation of a sequel is also a tough discussion. But most games in hindsight can be easily identified as to why they did or didn't sell. I don't understand why this conversation is still taking place. Some people saw the potential of the Wii concept long before it was out. It amazes me that people still can't see it. Even hardcore gamers who accept the Wiimote still think of its applications to hardcore games, which is fine, but it doesn't capture the popularity of the system. It is about the games. It's all about the games. Or at least how they take advantage of the Wii.
There is a bit more to it than that. There are anomalies. There's a discussion of what a sellable idea is in the first place. And the degradation of a sequel is also a tough discussion. But most games in hindsight can be easily identified as to why they did or didn't sell. I don't understand why this conversation is still taking place. Some people saw the potential of the Wii concept long before it was out. It amazes me that people still can't see it. Even hardcore gamers who accept the Wiimote still think of its applications to hardcore games, which is fine, but it doesn't capture the popularity of the system. It is about the games. It's all about the games. Or at least how they take advantage of the Wii.
its all about price.
As working in advertisement , even ppl in this industry still not sure if marketing really effects sales.But if u market something with is "price" highlighted your get much more attention no matter how many tricks it has.
Nintendo knew it and they skiped expensive HD gaming, need to release a cheaper console for selling more.
As working in advertisement , even ppl in this industry still not sure if marketing really effects sales.But if u market something with is "price" highlighted your get much more attention no matter how many tricks it has.
Nintendo knew it and they skiped expensive HD gaming, need to release a cheaper console for selling more.
revolverjgw
Member
People
Ugh, people.
Ugh, people.
Metal Gear?!
Member
Marketing matters quite a lot but marketing would be nothing without the software.
The Wii would be nothing without Wii Sports. Period.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/39128.html
WATCH. THIS.
The Wii would be nothing without Wii Sports. Period.
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/usermovies/39128.html
WATCH. THIS.
Pureauthor said:
I played all three games (with the exception of PDS, being a fan of the PD railshooter prequels) with no sort of preconceptions.
I can't agree with you there. How can I know if I will like game before I actually play it? I can be hyped, sure, but hype can be be both good and bad when it comes to actually reviewing or making an appreciation of the game (once played).