Support NeoGAF

[BruiserBear]

So the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1. This much is clear. The real question becomes how is that power advantage going to be put to use. Some estimates put the PS4 power advantage in the range of being able to run most games at a much higher framerate than the XB1. Some estimate the advantage being a little less.

Regardless, it got me thinking. I'm not finding myself that intrigued by the possibility of PS4 multiplats having slightly better shadows, or slightly better depth of field, etc.

The one thing that would be an absolute game changer for many of us would be the knowledge that just about every single PS4 game runs at 60fps. With the ease of development being touted on these new consoles, particularly the PS4, and the extra overhead the PS4 affords multiplatform developers, it just makes me wonder if Sony had taken the bold step to demand games run at 60.

If this were to happen, maybe the PS4 version runs at a slightly lower resolution than the XB1 version. Most people would never notice this. But 60fps? Many people would notice that. It changes so much about the look and feel of a game.

So I know it's a pipe dream of an idea, but if Sony had the balls to do it, there would be no question in my mind that every single multiplatform game I purchased this gen would be on the PS4.

 

[Alienous]

I'm pretty sure the PS4 isn't '30fps more powerful'.

The PS4 version wouldn't just have a reduced resolution. Geometry, lighting etc. would be also have to be scaled back.

And it wouldn't really be a selling point.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Naughty Dog would be out of a job.

 

[Jadedx]

This much is not clear, also Most xbox one launch games are solid 1080p 60fps, ps4 launch games 30fps.

 

[BigTnaples]

Mandatory 60fps would suck.

Unless it meant mandatory 3D as well. Then I would be all for it.

 

[Colonel Nasty]

This much is not clear, also Most xbox one launch games are solid 1080p 60fps, ps4 launch games 30fps.

Two out of four is not most.

 

[Alphahawk]

I wouldn't want them not allowing a fun game just because it's 30 fps.

Bad idea IMO

 

[ChiliManiac]

Can we have sources to this theory?

 

[iMax]

So the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1. This much is clear. The real question becomes how is that power advantage going to be put to use. Some estimates put the PS4 power advantage in the range of being able to run most games at a much higher framerate than the XB1. Some estimate the advantage being a little less.

Regardless, it got me thinking. I'm not finding myself that intrigued by the possibility of PS4 multiplats having slightly better shadows, or slightly better depth of field, etc.

The one thing that would be an absolute game changer for many of us would be the knowledge that just about every single PS4 game runs at 60fps. With the ease of development being touted on these new consoles, particularly the PS4, and the extra overhead the PS4 affords multiplatform developers, it just makes me wonder if Sony had taken the bold step to demand games run at 60.

If this were to happen, maybe the PS4 version runs at a slightly lower resolution than the XB1 version. Most people would never notice this. But 60fps? Many people would notice that. It changes so much about the look and feel of a game.

So I know it's a pipe dream of an idea, but if Sony had the balls to do it, there would be no question in my mind that every single multiplatform game I purchased this gen would be on the PS4.

The PS4 isn't as powerful as you think.

Plus, it should be up to the developers to balance and optimise themselves. This decision shouldn't be in the hands of the hardware makers.

 

[Douche McBaggins The 3rd]

Two out of four is not most.

It is if you consider ms math.

 

[Garrett 2U]

Would be a game changer, don't think it is nearly that much more powerful.

 

[Samyy]

Uh why would you want to force 3rd party pubs to put in extra work on your platform...
Seems like a great way to piss people off.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

You're overestimating the importance of 60fps to the majority of the world. Hell, even us with powerful PC's tack on some mods and crank things up while downsampling only to bring out framerates down to 30.

It's a balance but games have been fun for all time regardless of 30 of 60fps.

More 60fps games would be great but I want devs to make games they want to make and not cater to a vocal minority.

 

[SatansReverence]

I'm pretty sure the PS4 isn't '30fps more powerful'.

It's really not a case of being "pretty sure".

For there to be a 30 fps difference (talking 30 vs 60 fps) the console would have to be a minimum of twice as powerful. It would have to render each frame in half the time (33ms for 30fps vs 16.6ms for 60fps).

What we will see is games getting a little better AA. Better shadows and more particle effects or some multiplats being more stable on the PS4. At the extreme we might see 900p vs 1080p. We won't be seeing 30fps vs 60fps on multiplats that otherwise look identical.

 

[Neuromancer]

I don't really like the idea of a hardware manufacturer making those kinds of demands. Some devs will go for 60FPS, some will go with 30 but have more visual bells and whistles, it's all good.

 

[level_e11even]

You have to understand that not every game necessarily benefits from 60 FPS.

Also, the Xbox One can easily do 60FPS without much compromise on textures or resolution. So the PS4's computing advantage shouldn't necessarily yield a mandatory 60FPS on all games. It will and should always come down to the type of game being created, and the skill of the developers behind it; which is exactly the way it is now. And trust me, it's deliberate.

 

[Tain]

i don't even want mandatory resolutions

 

[captainraincoat]

So the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1. This much is clear. The real question becomes how is that power advantage going to be put to use. Some estimates put the PS4 power advantage in the range of being able to run most games at a much higher framerate than the XB1. Some estimate the advantage being a little less.

Regardless, it got me thinking. I'm not finding myself that intrigued by the possibility of PS4 multiplats having slightly better shadows, or slightly better depth of field, etc.

The one thing that would be an absolute game changer for many of us would be the knowledge that just about every single PS4 game runs at 60fps. With the ease of development being touted on these new consoles, particularly the PS4, and the extra overhead the PS4 affords multiplatform developers, it just makes me wonder if Sony had taken the bold step to demand games run at 60.

If this were to happen, maybe the PS4 version runs at a slightly lower resolution than the XB1 version. Most people would never notice this. But 60fps? Many people would notice that. It changes so much about the look and feel of a game.

So I know it's a pipe dream of an idea, but if Sony had the balls to do it, there would be no question in my mind that every single multiplatform game I purchased this gen would be on the PS4.

First party naughtydog ps4 games will make ps4 owners spontaneously explode in a ball of jizz and satisfaction

Third party games.....you will be counting the missing leaf or slightly blocky corner...aka fuck all difference

 

[BruiserBear]

I'm pretty sure the PS4 isn't '30fps more powerful'.

The PS4 version wouldn't just have a reduced resolution. Geometry, lighting etc. would be also have to be scaled back.

Can we have sources to this theory?

The PS4 isn't as powerful as you think.

This is some analysis Digital Foundry recently did, and it shows a distinct framerate advantage for the PS4 GPU when comparing multi platform games running on "comparable" PC GPUs.

It's worth noting many people have raised questions about the GPU's chosen for this comparison, noting that the XB1 GPU choice was far more powerful than it should be. So it seems very safe to assume this comparison represents the absolute best case scenario for the XB1's power compared to the PS4.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-can-xbox-one-multi-platform-games-compete-with-ps4

 

[JordanN]

I don't think bullying third parties is ever a good idea.

Either Sony should pay for it themselves or perhaps convince third parties to do it (offer incentives?).

 

[Salex]

Anyone else getting tired of this 60fps talk? Why not just get a high end PC if people care about 60fps so much?

 

[VinLAURiA]

I thought that already was mandatory. It was my understanding that all PS4 games were required to run at 60FPS, native 1080p, and have remote play on Vita.

 

[Madness]

People are in for a rude awakening when they see just how similar each consoles really are and that it'll come down to who's developing the game and the time they had and/or whether it's a multi platform.

The real tests will be each systems first party games. How will a next gen Killzone stack up with Halo 5. How will a next gen Alan Wake play against a next gen Naughty Dog game etc.

 

[nib95]

This much is not clear, also Most xbox one launch games are solid 1080p 60fps, ps4 launch games 30fps.

You've been taking maths lessons from Microsoft haven't you?

 

[iMax]

This is some analysis Digital Foundry recently did, and it shows a distinct framerate advantage for the PS4 GPU when comparing multi platform games running on "comparable" GPUs.

It's worth noting many people have raised questions about the GPU's chosen for this comparison, noting that the XB1 GPU choice was far more powerful than it should be. So it seems very safe to assume this comparison represents the absolute best case scenario for the XB1's power compared to the PS4.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-can-xbox-one-multi-platform-games-compete-with-ps4

Yes, but you'll notice that none of the tests achieved a 2x frame rate whilst maintaining the same graphical fidelity of the Xbox One version.

 

[Lathentar]

It's really not a case of being "pretty sure".

For there to be a 30 fps difference (talking 30 vs 60 fps) the console would have to be a minimum of twice as powerful. It would have to render each frame in half the time (33ms for 30fps vs 16.6ms for 60fps).

What we will see is games getting a little better AA. Better shadows and more particle effects or some multiplats being more stable on the PS4. At the extreme we might see 900p vs 1080p. We won't be seeing 30fps vs 60fps on multiplats that otherwise look identical.

That's not quite true. You're assuming that the base case is the game is running exactly at 30 fps on platform A, or at 45 or even 50 (if not vsynced). Maybe on platform B, the game doesn't spike nearly as badly in certain cases and/or runs 10 fps faster on average. In this case platform A locked to 30 would be completely stable and wouldn't be pushing the platform to extremes, where it might be pushing platform B very hard to get a stable 60.

 

[TheRealTalker]

they chose to have a higher graphical fidelity then to have a higher frame-rate.... makes sense seeing as games will eventually go down in frame-rate near the end of this new life-cycle

 

[codswallop]

Most people would prefer that the extra cycles go towards prettier looking graphics than a higher framerate. Does the mass market even want higher framerates? See: MotionPlus, The Hobbit 48fps release.

 

[OryoN]

How about hitting a solid 30fps?

Baby steps first...

 

[BruiserBear]

Yes, but you'll notice that none of the tests achieved a 2x frame rate whilst maintaining the same graphical fidelity of the Xbox One version.

Correct, and you'll notice in my original post I noted that it's likely the PS4 version may have to run at a slightly lower resolution, etc, to make 60fps possible. However, it's doable, and I believe more people would appreciate the 60fps gameplay than they would the higher resolution.

People often cite how similar these consoles are, and how things like Kinect make them different, etc. What better way to make one console different than to have it be the home to 60fps gameplay?

 

[Ranger X]

I think requirements should be much harder on devs and yes 60fps this new gen should be a standard for approval. But this is in a perfect world apparently. No way this happens in real life. You will always have the mentality to push other aspects of graphical fidelity of textures or lighting effects before the smoothness of the framerate amongst people and devs. And this liberty to choose CAN bring good results (even if most the time it does not).

 

[Derrick01]

People are in for a rude awakening when they see just how similar each consoles really are and that it'll come down to who's developing the game and the time they had and/or whether it's a multi platform.

The real tests will be each systems first party games. How will a next gen Killzone stack up with Halo 5. How will a next gen Alan Wake play against a next gen Naughty Dog game etc.

There is definitely a sizable power advantage in PS4. The question is will third parties take advantage of it or will they focus on complete parity for fear of angering the xbox crowd and drawing negative PR? Then again doing that would bring negative PR from the other crowd I suppose. It's not a tech problem like it was with PS3 and Cell though, so devs should be able to easily tack on advantages as if it were a PC port if they want to.

 

[Alienous]

It's really not a case of being "pretty sure".

For there to be a 30 fps difference (talking 30 vs 60 fps) the console would have to be a minimum of twice as powerful. It would have to render each frame in half the time (33ms for 30fps vs 16.6ms for 60fps).

What we will see is games getting a little better AA. Better shadows and more particle effects or some multiplats being more stable on the PS4. At the extreme we might see 900p vs 1080p. We won't be seeing 30fps vs 60fps on multiplats that otherwise look identical.

Things like "twice as powerful" aren't the case, are they? You don't need twice the CPU power, for instance, because of aspects such as AI. Twice the graphical processing performance makes more sense to me.

 

[USC-fan]

Would be a terrible move. Most people don't care about 30/60 and sales data proves that. Just watch gta5.

 

[level_e11even]

This is some analysis Digital Foundry recently did, and it shows a distinct framerate advantage for the PS4 GPU when comparing multi platform games running on "comparable" GPUs.

It's worth noting many people have raised questions about the GPU's chosen for this comparison, noting that the XB1 GPU choice was far more powerful than it should be. So it seems very safe to assume this comparison represents the absolute best case scenario for the XB1's power compared to the PS4.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-can-xbox-one-multi-platform-games-compete-with-ps4

It's not that it was more poweful. It's that it wasn't identical.

They don't take into account many crucial differences. For instance, they "forgot" to mention the much higher Colour Rops and Z/Stencil Rops found on the PS4 GPU.

I think I mentioned it in another thread, but essentially: do not trust that analysis. People seem to forget that the GPU/CPU configurations on these consoles are heavily modified. It's not like MS/Sony went on a shopping spree of standard parts on Newegg and built their consoles. Until the consoles are out, benchmarks that aim to replicate their hardware are going to be misleading at best.

 

[famousmortimer]

If sony demanded anything like this it would be a disaster. They aren't the monarchs of the videogame world. We saw how Microsoft demanded a lot of XBLA games this past generation and the fallout that has come from it...

 

[Jadedx]

Two out of four is not most.

Wrong

Lococycle
Killer Instinct
Forza

Not sure about ryse.

 

[Coolbgdog12]

Since when did people care about 60 fps so much?

I only care about it when i'm gaming on the PC but on consoles I don't care. As long as the game is exclusive and is beautiful for it's intended style, that's all that matters. I don't care that the next Halo is 60fps, I care if it looks and plays good.

 

[Eggbok]

Not sure I understand peoples want to max out the systems before they even launch.

 

[jayu26]

Wrong

Lococycle
Killer Instinct
Forza

Not sure about ryse.

lol, Lococycle would probably ran at 60fps on 360. If we are going to compare them like this, then talking about context in which these games are running at 60fps is more important.

 

[Reg]

people prefer a more cinematic framerate

 

[Bluekaveli]

I'd like 1080p to be mandatory but 30fps is good for me to be honest.

 

[googleplex]

If Sony demaned 60FPS it would be stupid. Sony seems to be maintain a "do what you want" policy. The less platform holders interfere with developers the better. More freedom developers have to more creative they can be.

 

[Metfanant]

This much is not clear, also Most xbox one launch games are solid 1080p 60fps, ps4 launch games 30fps.

Actually we don't know that for a fact...if you go by marketing stats Gran Turismo 5 is a 1080p 60fps game...yet it truly achieves neither in real world performance...

We have not seen ANY of the Xbone or PS4 titles running on retail hardware, with any sort of performance analysis being done...

Let's not talk about solid resolutions(native) or solid frame rates just yet...

 

[F4r0_Atak]

This much is not clear, also Most xbox one launch games are solid 1080p 60fps, ps4 launch games 30fps.

As for now, with all this cloud computing talk, I honestly don't expect the X1 games to play at 1080p with 60fps offline and I am not even talking about how AI, dynamic lighting or DoF could end up looking on the Xbox One. What if the 1080p60fps was online only? With crap AI, static lighting and cheated DoF when it's offline? DF compared the components with PS4's guts and it seems the only difference, was in term of performance since visually they should pretty much the same (when it comes to multiplat). The PS4 was more capable in reaching a more solid 60fps with multi-platform games than the Xbox One.

 

[BadAss2961]

Why handcuff your power advantage by demanding every game to run at 60fps? Sure 60fps is nice, but making such a demand is a quick way to blur the line between which version is better -- as it'll often come down to preference. You'll have 60fps, but at the expense of some games running at higher resolutions on XB1 with maybe higher settings as well.

Why do that instead of having every multiplatform game be an undisputed winner for PS4?

 

[Colonel Nasty]

Wrong

Lococycle
Killer Instinct
Forza

Not sure about ryse.

Well to be fair I'm sure a few downloadables will be 60 on PS4. I'm sure multiplatform games will look damn near the exact same but some Sony stuff will look the best. Just like this gen.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Beat the 60fps drum all you want. I'll take 30 with better visuals every time. Seems like most devs and consumers feel similarly or we'd see more games at 60fps.

 

[BruiserBear]

I think some of you are overestimating the difficulty of getting a multiplatform game to run at 60fps on the PS4. Almost all of these multiplatform games have a PC version as well. If you've ever played around with a PC game you know how the graphical options usually allow you to turn various settings up and down to achieve the framerate you want.

Now imagine a developer, in a dev environment, on a closed platform like the PS4, which is very similar to a gaming PC in terms of it's architecture. Meeting this 60fps requirement would not an incredible hurdle to overcome.

Now I'll admit that the results may not always be ideal. It's quite possible the XB1 version would look better, because effects had to be turned down a bit to hit that framerate demand, but I don't think the actual work involved with this would be noteworthy.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

How soon they can achieve parity of ALL games, nobody knows but:

Sony 'actively pushing' for 60FPS/1080p with PS4

http://www.videogamer.com/news/sony_actively_pushing_for_60fps_1080p_with_ps4.html

maybe second or third gen games? I know there will be 'some' but Sony look like their aiming for 'all'.