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If Sony hadn't screwed up SOCOM could that have been their Call of Duty?
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0neAnd0nly
Member
Amazing to me TO THIS DAY how big the maps were and how infinite your options were; foot, plane, vehicle, tank, etc.
Remarkable flowing gameplay.
And how in the world is that still HEADS AND SHOULDERS the best dog fighting arcade experience to this day. Battlefront dog fights were pure GARBAGE compared to Warhawk, your movement felt so free and visceral.
It DID have a sequel though, which I assume you do know based on your “direct sequel” comment as it was a bit… different. Starhawk. Good game in its own right, but not AS good at WH.
bitbydeath
Member
Yeah, I bought Starhawk but didn’t enjoy it as much, the base dropping was fun in theory but the execution didn’t go as well.
I had a bunch of complaints about it, one of the biggest being the knife being an R3 press, instead of a weapon you hold.
The knife in Warhawk added another dimension to gameplay, in form of a stealth mechanic, and hiding you from the radar.
The maps were built for buildings to drop, which made them mostly flat and boring.
The weapons and vehicles weren’t scattered around the map so you couldn’t switch things up by jumping into a jeep, or locating an RPG or Flamethrower to turn things on your opponent in an instant.
And I don’t recall if it had medkits either?
People weren’t as scattered across the map either as they relied too much on being near buildings they made.
They sacrificed way too much for the build/drop system.
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EDMIX
Member
lolz.....no.
Even in its prime, it wasn't even near the worst selling COD. Even the last SOCOM being made by a different team is irrelevant, when it was made by its core team...it was still not on some level of a COD. Even the odd blame on the publisher's focus on Single player games, what the fuck does that have to do with SOCOM not reaching COD numbers?
It wasn't made by Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica or anything like that to pretend those other titles doing better, had to do with SOCOM or MAG failing. During PS3's generation, I'd argue they got heat for making MP titles, not SP.
MAG
Warhawk
SOCOM reboot
LBP
Motorstorm
PS Home (BRING THAT SHIT BACK lolz)
Resistance 1-3
Killzone 2-3 etc
They had a strong focus on MP and online stuff to really fucking pretend THAT was the gen they just stopped giving a fuck about MP lol I'm sorry but this isn't the gen to make that fucking claim man, its just not. That was their strongest push and they took what worked and left behind what didn't. Though PS2 had some online function stuff, PS3 was their first huge system and push towards that concept in a big way.
Anything to compete with COD will be a new IP. Those IP had a chance and failed time and time again and publishers with even bigger pedigrees Dooms, Battlefield etc have literally all failed to outsell COD, the title that will do it will be something we've never seen before, a new IP. Look at PUBG, look at Fortnite, look at APEX. The thing that will do it could be something none of us even fucking heard of until its reveal or something, I have massive doubts of a Warhawk, Starhawk, MAG2 with 400 players being some huge thing that over takes COD lol
So Sony forming a new team making a MP title, buying Bungie, this is a huge play and maybe those moves will bring about some huge MP title for em.
bitbydeath
True. I remember Starhawk. Warhawk and that game had a great BF type concept, but Battlefield is the king of that concept and even at their best they are not outselling a COD.
So a Warhawk / Starhawk reboot could work, but they'd need to chase BF numbers and concept before even dreaming about some COD overtake type thing.
Over the shoulder, swappable FPS, destroyable environments, prequel to Warhawk to modernize those ideas before going to some Starhawk type sequel. Maybe it could work, but it would take a very talented developer to pull all that off.
Even in its prime, it wasn't even near the worst selling COD. Even the last SOCOM being made by a different team is irrelevant, when it was made by its core team...it was still not on some level of a COD. Even the odd blame on the publisher's focus on Single player games, what the fuck does that have to do with SOCOM not reaching COD numbers?
It wasn't made by Naughty Dog or Sony Santa Monica or anything like that to pretend those other titles doing better, had to do with SOCOM or MAG failing. During PS3's generation, I'd argue they got heat for making MP titles, not SP.
MAG
Warhawk
SOCOM reboot
LBP
Motorstorm
PS Home (BRING THAT SHIT BACK lolz)
Resistance 1-3
Killzone 2-3 etc
They had a strong focus on MP and online stuff to really fucking pretend THAT was the gen they just stopped giving a fuck about MP lol I'm sorry but this isn't the gen to make that fucking claim man, its just not. That was their strongest push and they took what worked and left behind what didn't. Though PS2 had some online function stuff, PS3 was their first huge system and push towards that concept in a big way.
Anything to compete with COD will be a new IP. Those IP had a chance and failed time and time again and publishers with even bigger pedigrees Dooms, Battlefield etc have literally all failed to outsell COD, the title that will do it will be something we've never seen before, a new IP. Look at PUBG, look at Fortnite, look at APEX. The thing that will do it could be something none of us even fucking heard of until its reveal or something, I have massive doubts of a Warhawk, Starhawk, MAG2 with 400 players being some huge thing that over takes COD lol
So Sony forming a new team making a MP title, buying Bungie, this is a huge play and maybe those moves will bring about some huge MP title for em.
bitbydeath
True. I remember Starhawk. Warhawk and that game had a great BF type concept, but Battlefield is the king of that concept and even at their best they are not outselling a COD.So a Warhawk / Starhawk reboot could work, but they'd need to chase BF numbers and concept before even dreaming about some COD overtake type thing.
Over the shoulder, swappable FPS, destroyable environments, prequel to Warhawk to modernize those ideas before going to some Starhawk type sequel. Maybe it could work, but it would take a very talented developer to pull all that off.
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remember_spinal
Banned
Factions will end up being 10x’s more successful than SOCOM ever was
Syphon Filter
Member
SOCOM is way better than COD, it single handily carried PS2 online. Sony ruined it due to dumbing it down and making it take no skills like COD and the fanbase left.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
No great sales. Over 2.6 Million Sales for Socom I alone.
SOCOM II: US Navy SEALs
PS2 Online and Xbox Live have been going head to head for sometime now in Europe, the USA and Japan, and the most succe…
www.eurogamer.net
diffusionx
Gold Member
We know Sony is good at making grim third person action adventure games - no one is better. They might be the only one capable of doing it these days (can Rockstar still make games? Jury’s out). But the live service stuff is a different beast and Sony shut it all down in the PS4 era. So they are at a major deficit talent-wise and skill-wise and need to catch up. I suppose that was what the Bungie acquisition was in part for, but as we have learned from MS the past few years, you can’t just spend a bunch of money and fix this problem.
AndrewRyan
Member
Starhawk had a lot of promise. Base building/defending was kind of fun and the whole thing would benefit with more players like we have today. Starhawk flying was a little sluggish compared to Warhawk. Remember those great dogfights
CircleOfFire
Member
Wasn't Black made by Codemasters? Either way I'd absolutely adore a MAG reboot, that game was godlike.
ozz ex machina
Member
Socom 1 2 3 and CA were all incredible multiplayer titles. Absolute pioneers of the genre. There are features that these games had which most modern shooters still lack.
It was incredibly fun and I'm still friends with a lot of online people who I met back then in the eu community. I do think the gameplay of socom is now very dated. Third person military shooters are fundamentally not competitive (too much information gained while hiding behind a wall). But there was enough kudos in that series to not completely botch it like they did. Back in Ps3 days sony had a community poll of things we wanted. Socom 2 Remaster was always top of the poll. But Sony just never gave a flying fuck.
They made their bed, Sony wants to be known for "prestige" third person action games. It's a shame but it's clearly working out well for them.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
No.
Tried a socom game on ps3, didn't feel like it had the same legs as CoD.
Sony hasn't really made a big online shooter. People loved warhawk here, but if it was successful it wouldn't have been shut down, or at least have gotten some sequel.
Tried a socom game on ps3, didn't feel like it had the same legs as CoD.
Sony hasn't really made a big online shooter. People loved warhawk here, but if it was successful it wouldn't have been shut down, or at least have gotten some sequel.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
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Yeah but Sony gave a fuck about Socom.
Ev1L AuRoN
Member
SOCOM would never become something like COD. Sony never compete with COD in the same ground, their FPS were always alien themed and with a big focus on the campaign.
yurinka
Member
Almost nothing compared to the 25-30M copies that a CoD sells. Or even compared to the recent Sony big exclusives that sell 20-25M.
SOCOM II: US Navy SEALs
PS2 Online and Xbox Live have been going head to head for sometime now in Europe, the USA and Japan, and the most succe…
I loved their games but didn't sell very well and the most recent and expensive one, Driveclub also had a very bad release with a big delay and big issues regarding its online.
They got unlucky with like a big tsunami and earthquakes happening just before the release of Motorstorm Apocalypse (which featured tornados, earthquakes, etc) so they had to release it with a very low marketing profile.
They shutted it up, but years later, with other bosses (Jimbo and Hermen) they bought Firesprite, which has a lot of key Evolution, SCE Liverpool Studio and Bizarre Creations staff. So Jimbo kind of ressurected Evolution.
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Rocco Schiavone
Member
Thanks for the stupid quote.
Nobody compared the game to other existing games. You clueless
told that you can't remember that It had good Sales.But It clearly had good sales and because I showed you that you try to downplay my arguments with a stupid COD comparison.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Edit: Wrong thread.
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FrankWza
Member
I think one of the devs who worked at zipper is now at guerrilla and a rainbow six? Dev too? That’s where the rumors of a reboot are coming
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Badlucktroll
Member
Bungie is probably going to make some crazy popular scifi shooter for Sony
yurinka
Member
I only shown some numbers proving that SOCOM sales are irrelevant compared to CoD or current Sony big games. That explains why SOCOM is dead and Sony doesn't resurrect it.Thanks for the stupid quote.
Nobody compared the game to other existing games. You clueless
But It clearly had good sales and because I showed you that you try to downplay my arguments with a stupid COD comparison.
Seems that to read some facts really butthurted you. Please, don't cry.
P.S.: the title of the thread compared it to Call of Duty, learn to read.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Not much evidence of that. The studio joined Codemasters and then they all got laid off after another poor-selling game.
In 30 years, Sony has closed 8 studios, and essentially 1 of those they've brought back. They don't close studios on a whim. If you look at Bend studios, they probably would have been closed, but have at least one more shot here. The UK teams haven't really produced for Sony either. 5/8 studios that closed down were in the UK (which has basically been them closing down Psygnosis).
Zipper just failed to maintain quality
Japan Studios had some games people were interested in but was cost prohibitive as well it had already lost ICO team and Fumito Ueda.
Incognito seemed to have its own issues
Games of Today
Member
Here is the thing.
Sony has these three major and potentially massively innovative shooter titles and they just sit back and blow it.
If they tasted Guerilla or some other first party team to make a Killzone 2 style reboot, Socom 2 reboot or a MAG reboot in modern graphics such as the Decima engine, I think they would have a system seller on their hands.
They don't NEED to do this obviously but there is a LARGE chunk of the Playstation soul missing since Killzone Shadowfall kind of killed that aspect of PS games.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
SOCOM wasnt "popular" then, it wouldnt be ground breaking today.
Hell Socom 2 and 3 were legit good games, Socom 4 was....Socom 4.
But by then i think the writing was already on the wall, yes the games are good, but they just aint popin.
It didnt die because Sony abandoned it at its prime or something, it died because it wasnt doing the numbers necessary.
Call of Duty didnt even launch on consoles but was super super popular.
Call of Duty 2, fuck me.
Call of Duty 3, even if it felt almost like an expansion was still popular.
Call of Duty 4, basically changed how online shooters were made for the next few years, and cemented COD as "staple" gaming, I remember when COD came out people in my college classrooms would be talking about the games they had the night before.
Alot of my XBL friends I actually made in college simply because id randomly eavesdrop on peoples COD conversations......and id play one game with them and they shocked, aye that black kid can fucking play.
Theyve got Bungie now.
Surely they could contract Bungie to do them a modern shooter.
With fluid fast controls and super tight gameplay.
Although the formula for what ends up being popular isnt a science.
When Siege launched many considered it a failure and wanted Rainbow Six Patriots instead.
Its one of the most popular games out right now
Hell Socom 2 and 3 were legit good games, Socom 4 was....Socom 4.
But by then i think the writing was already on the wall, yes the games are good, but they just aint popin.
It didnt die because Sony abandoned it at its prime or something, it died because it wasnt doing the numbers necessary.
Call of Duty didnt even launch on consoles but was super super popular.
Call of Duty 2, fuck me.
Call of Duty 3, even if it felt almost like an expansion was still popular.
Call of Duty 4, basically changed how online shooters were made for the next few years, and cemented COD as "staple" gaming, I remember when COD came out people in my college classrooms would be talking about the games they had the night before.
Alot of my XBL friends I actually made in college simply because id randomly eavesdrop on peoples COD conversations......and id play one game with them and they shocked, aye that black kid can fucking play.
Theyve got Bungie now.
Surely they could contract Bungie to do them a modern shooter.
With fluid fast controls and super tight gameplay.
Although the formula for what ends up being popular isnt a science.
When Siege launched many considered it a failure and wanted Rainbow Six Patriots instead.
Its one of the most popular games out right now
Dr. Kitty Muffins
Member
Bungie should make the next SOCOM.
Roufianos
Member
https://www.gamezone.com/news/socom_ii_logs_more_player_hours_than_all_of_xbox_live/
Socom at one point had more active players than all of Xbox Live. Ok, its numbers are dwarfed by COD now but you need to remember the context of this being way before online gaming on consoles became a norm. With proper management, the series could have flourished.
Unfortunately, Confrontation and 4 just weren't that good, PS3 wasn't that popular in the US and UK, and the console definitely wasn't known for its multiplayer offering.
Hell, the success of Siege shows there's more than enough appetite for a tactical shooter in the market.
Socom at one point had more active players than all of Xbox Live. Ok, its numbers are dwarfed by COD now but you need to remember the context of this being way before online gaming on consoles became a norm. With proper management, the series could have flourished.
Unfortunately, Confrontation and 4 just weren't that good, PS3 wasn't that popular in the US and UK, and the console definitely wasn't known for its multiplayer offering.
Hell, the success of Siege shows there's more than enough appetite for a tactical shooter in the market.
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EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
I kept telling socom fanboys if you are an exclusive you can’t pull off cod type sales.
REDRZA MWS
Member
Socom neither was a FPS, nor did it have anything to do with aliens. It was the best tactical TPS of all time.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Depends on what you mean by “their Call of Duty”. A franchise like SOCOM was never going to be as big as CoD. It’s a tactical third person shooter where teamwork is essential. It’s basically Search and Destroy from CoD but without CoD’s twitchy super fast gameplay.
SOCOM was amazing in 1 and II. It became a lot worse when key Zipper talent left while 3 was being worked on. Combined Assault continued the downward spiral. Confrontation was buggy trash but gameplay wise was closer to 1 and II.
We had official confirmed Zipper employees on this forum post that Sony interfered with SOCOM 4 development and had them try to dumb it all up and make it more like CoD. Evolution devs said the same thing about the last Motorstorm game. So it’s hard to say Sony could have had something substantial there because they directly ruined it.
It’s very hard to get something very popular in gaming. There’s a reason that as good as Sonys devs are, they haven’t come close to CoD type success. They’ve had tons of shots with various shooters and none of them worked. Same for MS. The closest MS has come is with Epic and Bungies work.
There’s also good reason Sony is fighting so hard to keep MS from getting CoD. They know how important it is and how impossible it is to recreate it on their own. It’s like saying someone can just make a new Zelda or Fortnite.
SOCOM was amazing in 1 and II. It became a lot worse when key Zipper talent left while 3 was being worked on. Combined Assault continued the downward spiral. Confrontation was buggy trash but gameplay wise was closer to 1 and II.
We had official confirmed Zipper employees on this forum post that Sony interfered with SOCOM 4 development and had them try to dumb it all up and make it more like CoD. Evolution devs said the same thing about the last Motorstorm game. So it’s hard to say Sony could have had something substantial there because they directly ruined it.
It’s very hard to get something very popular in gaming. There’s a reason that as good as Sonys devs are, they haven’t come close to CoD type success. They’ve had tons of shots with various shooters and none of them worked. Same for MS. The closest MS has come is with Epic and Bungies work.
There’s also good reason Sony is fighting so hard to keep MS from getting CoD. They know how important it is and how impossible it is to recreate it on their own. It’s like saying someone can just make a new Zelda or Fortnite.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
It wouldn't.
They shifted the series in the direction of 3 for a reason. There's also no other big games on the market similar to SOCOM 1 or 2.
"I used to like" is not a good strategy to make a modern successful multiplayer game.
DryvBy
Member
They should rival Battlefield personally. DICE has no idea what they're doing so they could take over that market easily. The problem is Sony always puts out slower military games with boring modes. Just make a conquest, military game. Heck, make a conquest Terminator game and I'll even bite.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
MAG?
akaFullmetal
Member
Need to bring back warhawk
SteadyEvo
Member
They lose COD this will likely happen and PS gamers will reap the benefits.
REDRZA MWS
Member
That’s the most obvious statement ever. Anyone familiar with the series knows 3 was when it took a step back. So why didn’t they learn from that and instead of going even further with 4, the should have went right back into the success they had with 1and 2.
Edit: confrontation was pretty solid too. A tactical 3rd person shooter SOCOM in the vain of 1and 2 would revive the series massively.
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eastcoastkody
Member
i only ever played Socom 3. played a ton of the multiplayer. I think COD could scratch that itch if they make a night map thats a little larger for the third person playlists. and have a raft in the map
MikeM
Member
Warhawk 100%. People still play it. Hell, my dad is not even a gamer and he played the shit out of that. Once they shit down the servers he basically packed up the ps3.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Most of the shooters they made during the PS3 days did score well. Pretty sure both Hawk games, KZ and Resistance all got good scores. SOCOMs didnt. I forget if MAG god goo or bad scores.
The problem is they went overboard on too many of them at the same time diluting the online base. At that time is also when people started migrating to COD settings. WWII was fading out. So even if they continued making those franchises, they'd never do as well as COD. The best supported shooters are either military grunt kinds of settings or the colourfull Apex and Fortnite setting. Destiny and Halo and Gears are the closest games to what Sony made back then. And they pale in traction compared to the former list.
The sci-fi setting of crazy aliens shit, interplanetary space stations and such gamers dont care anymore. Titanfall 1 and 2 didnt do that great either. When Unreal Tournament 3 came out, nobody cared for it.
But with the budget Sony has, they could make a great shooter if they wanted to. It's just that they prefer to sink their funds in SP narratives and Gran Turismo and making MP modes in UC and Last of Us. The rest of the games like sports, fighting games, shooters etc.... they prefer third parties to do it. And then Sony partners up with them.
It's crazy Sony hasnt made a big shooting game since KZ Shadowfall in 2013. Even Nintendo makes Splatoon games.
But things are changing. They bought Bungie for Destiny and have a shitload of GAAS games coming. And some of those have got to be shooters.
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Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
Again, they didn't have the success they desired with 2...which is why they made such a shift with 3.
Look at how Modern Warfare got off the ground 20+ years ago. It was a big hit so they kept going with the same formula. They had no reason to have a SOCOM 3 moment.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Shifts and changes aren’t always tied to sales. If that were the case then SOCOM Combined Assault or SOCOM 4 would have went back to the SOCOM I/II formulas since 3 was such a disappointment. They made a large shift with 3 because some of the key people behind I/II left between II and 3.
I can’t imagine II didn’t meet their expectations. It sold very well and got great review scores. It set the standard for online games on consoles back in the day.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
False. If they moved off of the SOCOM 1 + 2 formula because they weren't happy with the metrics, why would they go back to the (failed) formula after failing with their new direction? You don't go back to the first dead end just because you ran into a second dead end.
I don't find this likely. Zipper was fully capable of doing another SOCOM 2 type game even though key people left.
How well did it sell? How were player metrics 3 months, 6 months, and 12 months after launch? Reviews don't grow studios, money does.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
Don't forget they had the marketing deal for Rouge Warrior and Haze too. They also had Resistance too.
REDRZA MWS
Member
2 was the best in the series car none. They had plenty of success. Success had nothing tondonwithbdeign changes in 3. They tried something new and it didn’t work. Instead of going back to the tried and true formula they went worse with 4.
If they brought the series back with a competent developer with a defend budget and resources, and went back to what made the series great in the first place, it would be a one of a kind shooter on the market. A market desperately in need of a tactical 3rd person shooter.
REDRZA MWS
Member
Edit: let’s not also forget online MP was really the selling point of this series. That being said you needed to buy a separate Ethernet peripheral to even be a me to play online. That’s not remotely the case today . Socom needs to come back as Sonys premier shooter.
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Eddie-Griffin
Banned
Only the first two SOCOMS did very well but not by much.
Socom 1 did 2.25 million on PS2. Socom II did 1.42 million on the PS2.
Honestly, Killzone was probably their biggest FPS franchise.
Socom 1 did 2.25 million on PS2. Socom II did 1.42 million on the PS2.
Honestly, Killzone was probably their biggest FPS franchise.
Men_in_Boxes
Snake Oil Salesman
This just doesn't make sense. When you create a money printing machine that works, you don't create the next money printing machine by doing radically different things. It's not logical.
Battle Royales and Tarkov like games are the 3rd person tactical shooters of today. You're living in a golden age for these types of games.
Eddie-Griffin
ended the conversation. SOCOM 1 wasn't a smash success and SOCOM 2 did substantially worse. Just as I said, they changed it up with 3 because they weren't happy with the metrics.