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[mrklaw]

It's not even a question any more for me.

When there is an alternative that is cheaper, more powerful and without DRM, any barriers that MS create push me in the direction of PS4. And right now they have LOTS of barriers.

So I just choose Ps4 and just ignore the nonsense that MS is spouting. So much more relaxing rather than getting stressed about things.

 

[Canis lupus]

Nope, my biggest problem is the online check in place for the original buyer, I have no problem with checks for the people that play someone else's game.

 

[GenericUser]

So I just choose Ps4 and just ignore the nonsense that MS is spouting. So much more relaxing rather than getting stressed about things.

Seriously this. Why would I even want an xbox one and worry myself about used games and internet checks and whatnot, when I can have the more powerful system that also happens to be cheaper and does not confuse me with it's ridiculous amount of shrouded policies and restrictions.

Because of the handful of dudebro shooters that will appear on the ps4 anyway? Hell no!

 

[Walshicus]

It's not even a question any more for me.

When there is an alternative that is cheaper, more powerful and without DRM, any barriers that MS create push me in the direction of PS4. And right now they have LOTS of barriers.

So I just choose Ps4 and just ignore the nonsense that MS is spouting. So much more relaxing rather than getting stressed about things.

If this system works as described then it's not really cheaper is it? It's a false economy for the majority of people's usage, unless you plan not to spend any money on games with the PS4. With this system I'm at least halving the cost of the majority of games.

Nope, my biggest problem is the online check in place for the original buyer, I have no problem with checks for the people that play someone else's game.

I still don't see this as that much of a deal breaker. I mean if you're in a position where you often (or even infrequently) have neither have an internet connection at any point of a 24 hour period and you don't have a Smartphone with any signal strength then sure, it's not going to work too well for you. But I always carry my phone near me and I've never had a combination of the internet going down and the mobile network going down at once.

 

[SanguineShark]

If this system works as described then it's not really cheaper is it? It's a false economy for the majority of people's usage, unless you plan not to spend any money on games with the PS4. With this system I'm at least halving the cost of the majority of games.

Depends on whether or not gamesharing will work with the PS4. Halving the cost of games is nothing new, people did it on the PS3.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

lolno

 

[mrklaw]

If this system works as described then it's not really cheaper is it? It's a false economy for the majority of people's usage, unless you plan not to spend any money on games with the PS4. With this system I'm at least halving the cost of the majority of games.

If I buy digital on PS4 I can game share with one other person (realistically the limit of what I'd do on Xbox one for logistical simplicity). For physical games I can lend them or trade them

Overall I think the cost of software on both platforms would be close.


And if publishers are suddenly ok with sharing among 10 people, Sony should up game sharing from 2 to match.

 

[Walshicus]

If I buy digital on PS4 I can game share with one other person (realistically the limit of what I'd do on Xbox one for logistical simplicity). For physical games I can lend them or trade them

Overall I think the cost of software on both platforms would be close.

But that involves you giving someone your username and password details on PS3/PS4, doesn't it?

 

[dark10x]

I'm wondering, for someone living in a foreign country hoping to play games in their native language, what would the best option be? If you were to, say, purchase the console in that region, would you have access to English versions of the games? It is fully digital so I feel like it should be easy to do that. I haven't caught wind of any information on this.

With PS4 I will purchase it in the US and either import games or simply buy them locally just like PS3. Easy.

If I were to pick up a Bone at some point, however, it's still not clear how I would actually play games in English.

 

[softie]

But that involves you giving someone your username and password details on PS3/PS4, doesn't it?

You give your email address, and a temporarily password. Your sharing partner gets your content in his download queue, logs out and you change your password. That's it. Both can play the shared content any time on their machines and no one has to be afraid of his credentials.

 

[Nokterian]

Another thing,i just post it here. A friend of mine when we started talking about that DRM policies i said it is a dumb move from them and about used games etc.

Sure we have a very stable internet here in the netherlands but not always it can go down for a day or days. And he didn't mind the drm or used games or anything that was in place,since he never gave used games to gamemania (it is like gamestop really but dutch). But then i said what about a cool game what i am playing and you want to play it before you buy it? He went a little silent then because 30 days of waiting is just idiotic and swapping games is discovering new franchises and developers.

And i do not know why he thinks that way i said like many others it is against consumers seeing them as criminals.

Also he thought that Sony had the price fixed after microsoft announced it and i said i have seen a interview here in gaf somewhere that was decided years ago by sony. Also the used game policies and people defending there consumer rights on twitter other social media.

I just never understand why people think this way,vote with your wallet and think through what is happening. In the EU this will not be applied,microsoft can pay up again since it is anti-consumer and privacy with kinect 2.0.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The game sharing would be ok. Everything else would not be.

Isn't family sharing the reason things like the 24 check in and installing games/transferring of licence from disc to account exists?

MS are clearly trying to push a digital approach but knew they couldn't release a digital only console in a market that isn't fully equipped or ready to handle one and so it's made their approach look anti consumer in some respects.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

You realize some mishmash of physical discs being treated like digital purchases is not the way to smoothen this transition, right?

They have to do it that way because just going all digital with no discs at all would be way worse. They would get PSPGo'd if they did that.

They introduced installing games to the hard drive and Games on demand with the 360.
With the Xbox One installing to the hard drive is mandatory, people will be fine with that because they're already used to it from doing it on the 360, and now you don't even have to put the disc in. So now you're installing your games and not bother with the disc...you're halfway done with the transition to digital.

Now they haven't announced anything yet, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Microsoft steals summer sales from Steam. Deep discount sales on XBL would go a long way to getting people to download their games over getting physical copies. With deep sales and people being in the family share, by the end of the generation, you've got a decent sized console base that's used to getting their games digitally. So when next gen rolls around and Microsoft either gets rid of discs completely or relegates them to only being a way for people with slower internet to install faster, guess what? For most folks its no biggie, they've been downloading all their games anyway.

The growing pains are out of the way and the transition to digital is complete.

 

[GoofsterStud]

Isn't family sharing the reason things like the 24 check in and installing games/transferring of licence from disc to account exists?

MS are clearly trying to push a digital approach but knew they couldn't release a digital only console in a market that isn't fully equipped or ready to handle one and so it's made their approach look anti consumer in some respects.

I think the fact that they aren't clear, things aren't defined, and the fact that different reps say different things all contribute to their current anti-consumer image. They look like they are hiding the truth, because they know it's bad.

Lying to the customer is anti-consumer. Casuals will think they are buying physical games...but they aren't... It's made to look like physical games to trick or entice the casuals. That is anti-consumer.

When they tell everyone and put a warning on the box that all games are digital purchases. Have a clear policies with easy to follow and clear instruction. Things will be different.

 

[Canis lupus]

I still don't see this as that much of a deal breaker. I mean if you're in a position where you often (or even infrequently) have neither have an internet connection at any point of a 24 hour period and you don't have a Smartphone with any signal strength then sure, it's not going to work too well for you. But I always carry my phone near me and I've never had a combination of the internet going down and the mobile network going down at once.

The problem is not whether I have access to the internet or not, the problem is that there is a restriction in place, that will make me, the original buyer lose access to my game if I haven't connected.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I think the fact that they aren't clear, things aren't defined, and the fact that different reps say different things all contribute to their current anti-consumer image. They look like they are hiding the truth, because they know it's bad.

Lying to the customer is anti-consumer. Casuals will think they are buying physical games...but they aren't... It's made to look like physical games to trick or entice the casuals. That is anti-consumer.

When they tell everyone and put on the box that all games are digital purchases. Have a clear policies with instructions. Things will be different.

Good points and I agree with all of them.

The policy seems very flaky at the moment, almost as if they didn't anticipate the backlash that would result from them changing the rules of how physical media works.

I really would love to know what the hell is going on in the Xbox division that's resulting in this complete and utter mess we're watching unfold before our very eyes. Not even when Sega were in their death-throws did we see what we're currently seeing with MS.

It'd be bloody hysterical if it wasn't so damn pathetic. Well, it's still pretty damn funny, but Jesus, look at how far they've fallen from the razor sharp focus of the 360.

I guess this is what happens when you run a games division without any input from gamers/games developers.

 

[Walshicus]

The problem is not whether I have access to the internet or not, the problem is that there is a restriction in place, that will make me, the original buyer lose access to my game if I haven't connected.

Okay, so for you it's the fact that there is a limitation present that's the problem, rather than the fact that you almost certainly will never be in a position to be affected by that limitation?

 

[Kikujiro]

Good points and I agree with all of them.

The policy seems very flaky at the moment, almost as if they didn't anticipate the backlash that would result from them changing the rules of how physical media works.

I really would love to know what the hell is going on in the Xbox division that's resulting in this complete and utter mess we're watching unfold before our very eyes. Not even when Sega were in their death-throws did we see what we're currently seeing with MS.

It'd be bloody hysterical if it wasn't so damn pathetic. Well, it's still pretty damn funny, but Jesus, look at how far they've fallen from the razor sharp focus of the 360.

I guess this is what happens when you run a games division without any input from gamers/games developers.

This is the biggest problem. If they made a digital console nobody would have said anything more than "well I'm not interested, I like my physical copies". End of the story. Instead they are trying to transform retail into digital by stripping consumers rights, and they continue to dodge the questions, it's a pretty frustrating situation for the people who are just asking for a clear explanation of their policies. Why can't they do it?

 

[Walshicus]

This is the biggest problem. If they made a digital console nobody would have said anything more than "well I'm not interested, I like my physical copies". End of the story. Instead they are trying to transform retail into digital by stripping consumers rights, and they continue to dodge the questions, it's a pretty frustrating situation for the people who are just asking for a clear explanation of their policies. Why can't they do it?

Retail was already "transformed" with digital-only purchases like Steam and Origin games on PC, or DLC cards on consoles. This is just another step toward finishing the job.

 

[Kyon]

Isn't family sharing the reason things like the 24 check in and installing games/transferring of licence from disc to account exists?

MS are clearly trying to push a digital approach but knew they couldn't release a digital only console in a market that isn't fully equipped or ready to handle one and so it's made their approach look anti consumer in some respects.

No. Sony already has game sharing without all this DRM bullshit so I find that to be a dumb excuse

 

[SneakyStephan]

No, arbitrary restrictions are just that.
Gamesharing isn't a feature, it's a milder form of an arbitrary restriction.

+ the online check crap still exists
+the kinect is still there
+the price and hardware both SUCK, paying 500 euros for a 100 euro gpu... no thanks
+there is still the online paywall

 

[GoofsterStud]

Retail was already "transformed" with digital-only purchases like Steam and Origin games on PC, or DLC cards on consoles. This is just another step toward finishing the job.

Xbox One is a closed platform.

PC is an open platform.

It's not the same...not even close.

 

[Striek]

Even if it works in the absolute best case scenario (share with 10 people simultaneously, one of whom can play the same game the owner is playing even online, publishers are not allowed to opt-out) it still wont have solved the always online or used game issue, so I imagine for most people upset now it would be a no.

 

[LTWheels]

I'm waiting for more concrete and official information on how the game sharing works.

If it works well that could be a big deal for me. Especially if I team up with people on the other side of the world to me who have different interests in games to me. It will end up with me playing a much larger diverse range of games than I would normally play.

If I team up with the right people I may possibly get more benefit out of it than PSN+'s instant collection.

 

[Ryuuga]

It's up to Microsoft to communicate the benefits of the console. The only thing that they've constantly been regurgitating is that they used their farsight ability to make this console better suited for consumers in the future. A future where Apple has fallen and resorted to making homemade jams and Google now exclusively produce subaquatic eyewear leaving MS overlords of technology.

 

[Windom Earle]

I'm not even interested in game sharing. This seems like something MS came up as last minute damage control due to panic mode settling in.

No thanks MS, I don't care about sharing, the games I care about I buy.

 

[dragonelite]

Didn't care about online check.
Drop mandatory connected kinect and unbundle it to drop the price to $399.

 

[Harteex]

With all these restrictions and online checks in place I do not see it as I buy games, instead I do a long time rental. The price I'm willing to pay for the game is therefor based on this perspective.
On Steam the games are generally cheaper than they are on consoles, although, the same thing applies there; I generally buy the games for a price suitable for a long time rental.

I doubt the price of the games for the Xbone will be much cheaper than for the 360.

 

[Canis lupus]

Okay, so for you it's the fact that there is a limitation present that's the problem, rather than the fact that you almost certainly will never be in a position to be affected by that limitation?

Exactly! The disc is mine once I buy it, it shouldn't tell me what I need to do to further enjoy it.

 

[Kikujiro]

Retail was already "transformed" with digital-only purchases like Steam and Origin games on PC, or DLC cards on consoles. This is just another step toward finishing the job.

No, it's not. PC market is different. Retail is well alive: see books, music CDs and DVDs/Blurays. People like to have options and they like to choose, if you like to be owned by a corporation feel free to be owned, I don't. The digital market will be the future if and only when the consumers decide it.

 

[jony_m]

Not going near the xbone but has MS confirmed that the 'family members' will be able to have their own separate libraries? Sounds to me that it is really designed for sub accounts to have access to the main account's library and only that library.

 

[M3d10n]

No, because no matter how they massage it, it's still a convoluted online-only console like OnLive. I can never be comfortable with the fact that the access to "my" games could be revoked remotely at any moment.

 

[jet1911]

I'm wondering, for someone living in a foreign country hoping to play games in their native language, what would the best option be? If you were to, say, purchase the console in that region, would you have access to English versions of the games? It is fully digital so I feel like it should be easy to do that. I haven't caught wind of any information on this.

With PS4 I will purchase it in the US and either import games or simply buy them locally just like PS3. Easy.

If I were to pick up a Bone at some point, however, it's still not clear how I would actually play games in English.

Well you could import from the UK I guess(you'll be in France, right). Or if you set your Xbone dash in english I suppose you'll download games in english if you buy digitally.

 

[Walshicus]

With all these restrictions and online checks in place I do not see it as I buy games, instead I do a long time rental. The price I'm willing to pay for the game is therefor based on this perspective.
On Steam the games are generally cheaper than they are on consoles, although, the same thing applies there; I generally buy the games for a price suitable for a long time rental.

I doubt the price of the games for the Xbone will be much cheaper than for the 360.

I think the point of this thread is that game-sharing will make the effective price cheaper. If you have a single friend in the sharing list, you've halved the amount you need spend per game. Naturally the amount of utility you get out of the system is dependent on how similar the taste in games you share with your friends is.

 

[Kyon]

I'm not even interested in game sharing. This seems like something MS came up as last minute damage control due to panic mode settling in.

No thanks MS, I don't care about sharing, the games I care about I buy.

That's exactly what it is to me. That is the only positive thing I see people using . PS3 already did this tho so it's not new.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Micheal Bolton has spoken

That no talent ass clown?

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

No, you still don't own the game. How is it ever okay?

What about Steam/XBLA/PSN/any other DRM'd digital purchase?

 

[smr00]

I don't care about fucking offline gaming. I don't live in a ghetto where my internet goes out every 2 seconds.

And yeah I will put my 4 close gaming friends into my family share and will be able to give them access to my large library of digital games. That is not possible for me with Steam.

1. You don't speak for the world, you don't care? cool story bro, millions do.
2. Only people in the ghetto have shitty internet? I live in a upper class area and have unreliable internet, know why? Because location doesn't fucking matter.
3. Awesome, share games with just 4 people. I should have the right to give, trade or sell my disc based games. One of the BIGGEST appeals to gaming consoles is the used market.

If you want a xbox one that's your choice.

Retail was already "transformed" with digital-only purchases like Steam and Origin games on PC, or DLC cards on consoles. This is just another step toward finishing the job.

PC =/= consoles. Do you know why the console is so appealing to so many people? Because they don't have unlimited bandwidth, fast connections etc. This job of digital only on consoles isn't going to happen for a very, very, very, very long time because the market is COMPLETELY different. Hardcore gamers aren't the target audience.

 

[Freki]

Well lets see - the right to own, share, sell, borrow, pass on to, collect, manage, .. as it could be executed right now becomes an acquiescence to register our friends for 30 days, lie that they are family members, hope that MS isnt enforcing the 3000 miles rule to strictly, or actually enforcing the "family" part of the deal - and then forever cross our fingers that 10 doesnt become 9, 8, 7, 6, ... While account sharing might become illegal, MS can ban at will. MS defines what "abuse" in this system will be, ... How many friends can access your "library" at once. Also how many "families" can you be part of?

Much of a control freak MS?

MS isn't "balancing", MS is enforcing.

MS is killing gaming culture and replacing it with a model after their own spitting image.

Basically it boils down to trust - do you trust Microsoft....

 

[Bedlam]

As long as the online-checks are still in place, nothing will ever be okay.

What about Steam/XBLA/PSN/any other DRM'd digital purchase?

I can play those without asking the platform manufacturer each and every day.

 

[Camp Lo]

I don't care about fucking offline gaming. I don't live in a ghetto where my internet goes out every 2 seconds.

And yeah I will put my 4 close gaming friends into my family share and will be able to give them access to my large library of digital games. That is not possible for me with Steam.

 

[gofreak]

That would only work if every disc was unique, which will never be the case.

I believe you can already tag discs with uids. If not I would prefer to wait until NFC tech is viable, if it isn't already. Or just put a 'digitisation' code in the box that can be linked and unlinked from an account.

Isn't family sharing the reason things like the 24 check in and installing games/transferring of licence from disc to account exists?

It's not. And it's certainly not why it's mandatory. If this was about benefits they should treat it additively, as something users can opt into if they want those benefits. Or not. Until they give that choice, it is not about user flexibility.

 

[Partition]

Is your tinfoil hat ready for it?

Why do we have to label people as conspiracy theorists just because they don't feel comfortable having a camera constantly on all the time? Is such a worry really that far fetched given MS's complete cooperation with PRISM?

 

[Eric the Red]

Am I still only paying for a game license or am I buying the game?

It doesn't solve their problems.

What about Steam/XBLA/PSN/any other DRM'd digital purchase?

We're talking about discs not XBLA.

 

[VanquishUK]

Microsoft don't deserve my money.

 

[TacosNSalsa]

Didn't Sony already have something similar until they decided to cut it from something like 10 to about 2? It was called system activation though. If Sony were to just up that number a bit plus their adoption of day one digital and along with the games given to you by PS+ I think they would have a pretty good answer to what Microsoft is proposing ..

 

[Moussuki]

everything will be OK as soon as the box is hacked, which I expect to be much quicker than other systems due to incentives and antuconsumer stance..

 

[PJV3]

Absolutely not, MS need a spanking like Sony took, they need to focus on gaming not ownership.

 

[sono]

No because it doesnt help me buy used...

 

[Dizzy]

Nope. I couldn't care less about game sharing. I want my games to work the old fashioned way.