MasterForm
Member
Yes, let's berate those that choose to do nothing when they have zero obligation to. Yes, let's call people who simply choose to mute, report, and move on "assholes."
Please, stop.
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If You Hear Someone Getting Harassed In An Online Game, Don't Stay Silent
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
Please, stop.
i watched all 13 minutes of that garbage. listen to the first minute and tell me if you actually think that guy is interested in listening to the "opposition", which is a weird term to give someone being harassed in an online game
Alex_Mexico
Member
Jesus H. Christ you're being serious!
Also: AlphaOmegaSin is a Gamergater douchebag.
You missed my point a bit. If you mute them they don't go away. Reporting them/sticking up for the harassed also makes it more likely the harasser will be held accountable for their behavior, and also shows the victim that people care.
There are other things to be done (like Blizzard being more serious about dealing with those reports) but she really isn't asking the community for much at all. Reporting takes seconds, calling people out takes seconds, even calling them out before muting them takes seconds.
the guy duckroll is responding to said he doesn't report them because his time is too precious.
No thanks. Alphaomegasin, Thunderf00t and Sargon of Akkad are not individuals that I want to "listen" to.
I'm not that much of a masochist.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Also it seems Overwatch on PC is significantly more toxic than on consoles. I can only vouch for PS4 but I've played that game on that insole for 100 hours and I've yet to come across any harassment towards a woman for being a woman. I'm sure it happens but it seems it happens way less.
Make of that what you will.
Make of that what you will.
MasterForm
Member
Ah, my mistake. Must've read over that too quickly. Still don't agree with "asshole" assignment. Selfish, yes. Asshole, not necessarily.
Alex_Mexico
Member
Thunderf00t has gone through a very strange turn of events since he attracted a lot of the alt right with his anti feminist videos but he also HATES Trump and constantly berates him on twitter. Such an interesting position he put himself in, lol. I enjoy seeing his "fans" feeling betrayed.
You seem very quick to want to dismiss that there is anything a community can do to improve things, and instead want to make fast driveby replies that the REAL problem is actually trying to care about this at all. Do you have more insightful contributions?
So far, asking for a wallpaper with Min Min butt, so I imagine he is done here
TPFInferno
Member
I think he is as interested as the Kotaku writer who labeled people who do not actively engage to stomp out this behavior as sexist/misogynistic.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
And now you get to have your fun nowhere near here!
At the very least. It doesn't even have to be much, simply complimenting someone on what they do in game, asking for help, just showing they are part of the team and that it is appreciated can make things things better overall for them or the overall atmosphere.
Even just preventing it from only being a negativity experience can help.
Even just preventing it from only being a negativity experience can help.
Tajaz2426
Psychology PhD from Wikipedia University
Someone should always speak up in these situations. You dont have to start an argument, your just making the person that is harassed feel like they arent alone.
It is a very simple concept, hopefully, most of you wouldnt watch someone get bullied and beat up in real life and you shouldnt stand by in a game lobby neither.
Ask the person to act with some kind of common decency, if they dont, at least the person that is getting piled on, knows their not alone. Next you can ask the person if theyre like to mute them and carry on a conversation with decent players.
That is what compassion is and how it should be. Just my opinion.
It is a very simple concept, hopefully, most of you wouldnt watch someone get bullied and beat up in real life and you shouldnt stand by in a game lobby neither.
Ask the person to act with some kind of common decency, if they dont, at least the person that is getting piled on, knows their not alone. Next you can ask the person if theyre like to mute them and carry on a conversation with decent players.
That is what compassion is and how it should be. Just my opinion.
MasterForm
Member
There is something a community can do. However, the community can only do so much. No, I do not have to engage with someone that is harassing another. I would however urge, the harassed person to ignore and report the abuser.
That is the extent of what I can do. What is an anonymous well-intentioned voice of reason to someone bent on making others have a bad time?
if you can point me to where she said people who were silent and sexist and misogynistic please do. as far as i saw she simply said that they were complicit in furthering the toxic environment and harassment in overwatch by not speaking out against it.
Weltall Zero
Member
Who is this AlphaOmegaSin person? *googles*
... oh.
No, it hasn't. In this scenario the game is ongoing and so is the confrontation. Harassers aren't know for knowing when to quit with their shit. Even muting them in games that allow that doesn't prevent them from harassing you in other ways.
Several things, actually:
1) Support for the victim (why the fuck is everyone ignoring this? It's the crux of the article, letting them know you have their backs instead of allowing them to self-doubt and feel alone and helpless. Is basic empathy so utterly impenetrable to people?).
2) Lack of implicit "support by ommision" for the harassers.
Talk of "efficiency" makes little sense considering that "confront" and "report" are not mutually exclusive options. Unless your argument is that "report" is a more efficient option than "confront and report", which is pretty immediately falsified for several reasons like the fact that confronting the agressors publicly has a good chance of getting others to confront and report in turn.
Berserking Guts
Member
It's why I play with communication off. I'll occasionally dabble, dip in a toe, test the waters, but it almost always ends with me turning off chat. And I apologize if it sounds callous, but don't shame me for not wanting to get involved. I'm just here to play video games with complete anonymity. I have enough drama in my real life.
If you are willing to engage at all on any level, that improves the community. I think it is silly to jump on the "whyyyyyyyy should i argue with another dude" when that's not the point of the article. The problem is people staying completely silent and not wanting to talk to anyone at all when something bad happens. There's a time to ignore stuff and just play, and there's a time to stop and go "I should say something". You don't have to argue with the other person. You could just talk to the person being abused and say "He's a prick, just mute him, we got your back." in team chat or whatever. That makes a world of difference.
Weltall Zero
Member
And as a sort of meta-demonstration, I'm now relieved that I'm not the only one baffled at the lack of empathy shown by others in this thread.
Ascenion
Member
I get where the article is coming from, if you're entirely complacent you are absolutely not helping, but at the same time I can see myself actively stand up for a stranger. Passively? Yes. I'll say things like "mute that asshole" or "ignore them you're doing fine" but to actively go on the defensive and retaliate? Nah. If it's my friend then yeah I'll ether some racist/sexist/homophobic asshole and take pleasure in it. Otherwise the most I'll do is encourage them to mute/report and give an encouraging word. It's not my battle to fight or my friend to defend.
Not really, they are playing the PC version wrong. Nobody uses in-game voice chat on PC. People just hang out with their friends in private rooms to chat and while playing games.
To communicate with your team mates in-game you just spam the hello emote over and over. Then you do the couch and jump dance around them.
The author did commit the number one sin that sets people off. Bitching about other people's play styles and whining for a healer. The only response to this is saying, sounds good go ahead and switch to one.
TPFInferno
Member
"Permissiveness is tacit approval of this behavior."
She is saying that those people approve of sexist/misogynistic behavior.
Imbarkus
As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Here's a link with the timestamp to the callout I did recently if you're tl;dw on the link earlier.
It's fascinating because this guy is going on forever with poison about comp during the match, I call him out, one of the women on the team just says she agrees, and she is the one he counterattacks (while later admitting to being a father).
I'm not sure how to feel about the results. It only spurred him on to more hate. Looking back I didn't call him out further on the further, woman-specific hate. I was clicked off by then.
It's fascinating because this guy is going on forever with poison about comp during the match, I call him out, one of the women on the team just says she agrees, and she is the one he counterattacks (while later admitting to being a father).
I'm not sure how to feel about the results. It only spurred him on to more hate. Looking back I didn't call him out further on the further, woman-specific hate. I was clicked off by then.
You're a jackass.
Also you're a terrible teammate if you cannot stick up for your teammates.
MasterForm
Member
There's also viewpoint that muting should be the obvious first action. I want to believe that a lot of people are jaded now. They hear the abuse, are used to it by now and do nothing because it's white noise to them now. This doesn't make the inaction right, of course.
There's also party chats to take into consideration. Some players might not hear it at all to even take a stand. It's why people began flocking to those in the first place.
I'm all for consoling someone and telling them to take proper actions to handle their online abusers, but that's mainly because I hear them wasting their breath trying to argue with the abusers. They're only giving them what they want, a reaction.
Weltall Zero
Member
tac·it (tăs′ĭt)
adj.
1. Not spoken: indicated tacit approval by smiling and winking.
2. Implied by or inferred from actions or statements: Management has given its tacit approval to the plan.
3. Archaic Not speaking; silent.
"Not speaking up against something" vs "giving tacit approval" is a hair that you'd need a nanometer laser to split, but hey, feel free to die on that hill, even if it makes you look like a hilarious hypocrite for not splitting the treetrunk-sized hair that is "giving tacit approval" vs "being sexist and mysogynistic" in your own post.
If you choose to do nothing then when people call gaming a cesspool don't you dare stand up and cry "b.b.but not all gamers!" Sit your fence-sitting ass back down
I never get the chance! I've basically only played Overwatch for the past year in terms of online games and no one uses voice chat in EU servers because everyone is too insecure about their english. I haven't seen gender abuse in OW for the same reason I think. When I'm playing that is.
Weltall Zero
Member
That's the entire discussion, that you have a moral obligation as a decent human being. Don't use your conclussion as a premise.
GhostTrick
Banned
Thing is, can you adress the problem ?
As for me, I dont think you can change people. Too many people, too many countries. You'll always find idiots in competitive games.
Hence why I avoid communications in online games.
And if I was a woman, I'd be even more cautious. Basically:
The internet/being behind a screen makes a lot of people feel they can do whatever they want.
MasterForm
Member
Or that player knows that the mute button exists. They don't have to say anything when they know that there are mechanisms in place to make it stop.
TPFInferno
Member
I'm being hypocritical? Just as she states that permissive if tacit approval of behavior, her writing tacitly epxresses how she thinks people who don't actively engage are sexist and misogynistic.
Notice how I used the word tacit there?
permissiveness certainly isn't tacit disapproval. i still don't see how that says they're sexist or misogynistic as opposed to them being enablers for harassment and toxicity
Same. And I discovered way back in my Guild Wars 1 days that if you're just kind, women often make for better conversation and super dedicated teammates. The bar really is set so low that all you have to do is be genuinely nice and you'll often wind up with a really good pal.
On the other hand, there are tons and tons of times I've tried to be friendly to other male players only to get treated like garbage. I don't really understand it.
I really think that the best solution is to ignore these people and here's why. These people are after one thing and one thing only.
Attention.
They say those horrible things because they desperately seek attention. It makes them feel powerful and in control because they lack these things in their day to day lives. So by merely acknowledging that they exist, we're giving them exactly what they want. And as long as they get that acknowledgment, even if it's in the form of insults, they will stick around.
But what if they were always ignore no matter what they said? If they stop getting the attention that they crave, chances are that they will leave and seek attention somewhere else.
Attention.
They say those horrible things because they desperately seek attention. It makes them feel powerful and in control because they lack these things in their day to day lives. So by merely acknowledging that they exist, we're giving them exactly what they want. And as long as they get that acknowledgment, even if it's in the form of insults, they will stick around.
But what if they were always ignore no matter what they said? If they stop getting the attention that they crave, chances are that they will leave and seek attention somewhere else.
Why are there people arguing against this? Voice chat, a perfectly useful tool for online games, and has been completely tainted and absorbed by shitty assholes. Why is "just don't listen" considered the only acceptable way to tackle this? As if voice chat is going to become less toxic by avoiding it. Nah, if everyone chased these fuckers out, then there might be some social reinforcement in the notion that trolls have no fucking place.
Hardvlade
Member
I've seen this happen towards kids or "squeakers" on Destiny a lot. They immediately talk shit to them, treat them like crap and in some cases would boot them right before earning rewards (from finishing a raid) (LFG groups).
Not so much on Overwatch (yet), I usually encounter dudes just talking shit to each other, if someone is getting picked on. I simply speak up and say "hey dude that's not cool" if they continue to be an asshole, I encourage the one getting harassed to just mute/block.
Not so much on Overwatch (yet), I usually encounter dudes just talking shit to each other, if someone is getting picked on. I simply speak up and say "hey dude that's not cool" if they continue to be an asshole, I encourage the one getting harassed to just mute/block.
Nydius
Member
The mute button doesn't make the behavior stop, it's just the equivalent of putting fingers in one's ears. That's the issue. You can cover your eyes, plug your ears and insulate yourself as much as possible but that doesn't do ANYTHING to help change people's behavior. In many cases, it just emboldens them, especially once they learn they've been blocked/muted.
natethegreat409
Member
I'm playing a game to escape reality, not try to fix the world. Sorry man I have too many responsibilities to tackle that.
Also as a previous troll in WoW, it only made it more fun for me when people fought back. If no one would bite I'd just shut up. I was never racist or sexist, just an asshole to people.
My trolling was 12 years ago when i was like 15. So no need to tell me how i am part of the problem. I grew up and quit.
I was very happy with one match last night, where one player kept hurling hideous abuse at the Symmetra on our team, and we all started dogpiling onto them for being a horrible person, and started focusing on assuring they kept getting killed as quickly as possible.
Symmetra then got play of the game. And the griefer ragequit. We were all very proud.
GhostTrick
Banned
Public voice chat has been. I feel like this is why group chat and tools like discord/skype/teamspeak/mumble became popular: To avoid random idiots.
I mean, randoms can be insufferable as a guy, I cant imagine how it is for a woman. Oh in fact, I have an idea: Add to the insults and toxicity, harassement and sexism.
Yes, this is how we engender empathy and improve the tone of conversation around games.
MasterForm
Member
How does that make it the fault of the silent player who has chosen to cut to muting from the onset? I can't change the way someone chooses to act online. They know what they're doing. They know that they're saying horrible things. How is my telling them the obvious going to change their deplorable behavior? It won't because they want reactions.
I do step-in in real life, or at least I did when I was in school and I encountered bullying. I still do try to cut through bullshit narratives, which demean the contribution, perspective, insight of others I see as being ignored or undervalued but I haven't encountered bullying or been bullied in a long time.
But idt I would step in in competitive online. I did when I was a guild officer in an MMO, but those were people I "knew" and to whom I was responsible. Competitive play with randoms...I don't do it currently and haven't much in the past, but my instinct is to just not use VC there and that's probably what I'd do if I picked up a game like that again in the future.
And I can't say that has nothing to do with my limited experience of it being full of homophobic slurs alongside obnoxious whooshing sounds, weird monologues, and animal calls. So that decision would be averting my eyes in part. I can't deny that.
But idt I would step in in competitive online. I did when I was a guild officer in an MMO, but those were people I "knew" and to whom I was responsible. Competitive play with randoms...I don't do it currently and haven't much in the past, but my instinct is to just not use VC there and that's probably what I'd do if I picked up a game like that again in the future.
And I can't say that has nothing to do with my limited experience of it being full of homophobic slurs alongside obnoxious whooshing sounds, weird monologues, and animal calls. So that decision would be averting my eyes in part. I can't deny that.
I stick up for people in chat in games like heroes of the storm because quite honestly, team morale is literally a factor that needs to be managed sometimes. You may need to talk people down before they throw the game. It sounds insane that I would even need to do this, but it's true. Being positive and getting people to back off each other gives you a better chance of winning the game.
However in those cases it's almost always someone complaining about a hero pick or someone else's play, not general bullying about their gender (it's text only). I'd imagine it'd be hard to dissuade some asshole who has decided he's going to be sexist because it's just bullying at that point and not really a reaction to anyone's play.
Maybe if they received push back every single time they try shit that might eventually put them off, I don't know.
However in those cases it's almost always someone complaining about a hero pick or someone else's play, not general bullying about their gender (it's text only). I'd imagine it'd be hard to dissuade some asshole who has decided he's going to be sexist because it's just bullying at that point and not really a reaction to anyone's play.
Maybe if they received push back every single time they try shit that might eventually put them off, I don't know.
Basically 100% this. Call gross shit out and help people who feel bullied or harassed feel like they're not alone. Seems like the most common sense thing in the universe to me.