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[gamerx]

Do you realize how important 2007 is to XBOX360, PS3, and PC? There are loads of high budget games being released this year that were started before the Wii craze. If too many of these titles fail at the hands of Wii, what message do you think that will send publishers? While we may see a whole slew of 2007 next generation games, that doesn't mean 2008 and beyond will be as kind to these machines. The market is still reacting to the Wii. 2007 is going to be a great year as these games were developed under different expectations, but beyond that, I fear for the industry.

How could publishers ignore the low cost development and high sales of Wii? F*ck the end product, it's all about the money. This is the video game BUSINESS, not an art show. If you aren't meeting sales numbers, what's the point? For those of us not taken by the Wii, this is upsetting.

It's a sad state of affairs when I am completely unable to form an argument here.

.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Dark, you're a good guy and passionate, but you're really overreacting here. The industry is NOT doomed, Long epics and cinematic titles will NOT go the way of the Dodo, and the Wii in first is not as bad as you're making it out to seem.

 

[JDSN]

- If you are not hardcore you are casual.

- If one company is successful the others will fade into oblivion.

- If there are "casual" games made there will never be any "hardcore" games.

But what about the "hardcore casuals"?

 

[KINGMOKU]

This thread is a fanboy heaven. A site reported that SOME developers are shifting SOME of their focus to development for Wii.

Gaf's logical conclusion, according to silly posters:
1) Its all over, Wii is going to win, we re the champions my friend
2) Its a lie and Wii is a fad, soon it will be all over, wait till you see what HD can do
3) OMG doom everywhere, gaming is dead, our precious hobby is destroyed by math calculators and exercise applications.

It is either black, or white, or blue or green or whatever!

Annoying Old Party Man

And you call yourself a Party-man. For shame.

 

[Eteric Rice]

My ideal industry would be the DS, the PSP, and the XBoy.

2/3s of the way there.

Indeed, handheld gaming is becoming cheaper, and in some cases "better" than console gaming. :|

 

[RiskyChris]

Of course not.

A more powerful Wii would suffice as competition. My issue is with the Wii hardware. I do not expect XBOX360 power from Nintendo, but something a bit stronger than the original XBOX with support for higher resolutions surely would not have broken the Nintendo piggy bank. That's from my perspective, though, not Nintendo's. They are loving the profit on every Wii sold...

Yes, I'm pretty sure everyone wanted at least support for upscaled HD resolutions. Not including it is not killing the industry, however.

 

[Pureauthor]

But what about the "hardcore casuals"?

They've committed mass suicide.

 

[maxmars]

Why the F*CK should those of us who own HDTVs suffer?!?! XBOX360 is perfectly functional on SD and HDTVs. Microsoft is supporting everyone. Nintendo is not. You certainly do not need to purchase an HDTV in order to enjoy XBOX360, but at least those who do have added benefits.

Dark10x, there's already TWO HD consoles out there, both will get complex, very polished and graphically stunning games, if anything because crappy looking games wouldn't resonate with their users. Enough with the bitching please!

I really like the option of having an inobtrusive and sturdy little console which works perfectly on SD (be honest, in SD the 360 and PS3 lose part of their charm, plus there's also games like Dead Rising that make it difficult to read stuff in SD).

 

[The Lillster]

Of course not.

A more powerful Wii would suffice as competition. My issue is with the Wii hardware. I do not expect XBOX360 power from Nintendo, but something a bit stronger than the original XBOX with support for higher resolutions surely would not have broken the Nintendo piggy bank. That's from my perspective, though, not Nintendo's. They are loving the profit on every Wii sold...

But most of the stuff that as come out on the Wii so far is PSP/2 ports, so how do we know how powerful it really is?

On paper it may seem weak compared to the other 2 systems, but that doesn't mean we won't get games with good graphics.

 

[Vagabundo]

Dark, you're a good guy and passionate, but you're really overreacting here. The industry is NOT doomed, Long epics and cinematic titles will NOT go the way of the Dodo, and the Wii in first is not as bad as you're making it out to seem.

Like water on passionate fire. I was waiting for your big wise avatar head to appear.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I do not expect XBOX360 power from Nintendo, but something a bit stronger than the original XBOX with support for higher resolutions surely would not have broken the Nintendo piggy bank.

Hold. The Wii is stronger than the Xbox. The results just aren't there yet.

 

[Parl]

You guys aren't getting it. Once developers start making Wii games, they lose their creative talent. They lose their artistic merits. They lose their ability to make good games. Iwata warned us - he said that with the waggle stick, the only limit is the developers' imaginations. Because of Wii, this is very limited.

 

[Eteric Rice]

http://www.konami.jp/gs/game/Dewy/index.html

Is that not good enough graphics? :|

(yes I'm whoring that game out)

 

[ziran]

http://www.marriedtothesea.com/052806/small-n-bitter.gif

:lol

Pretty much sums up this thread.

It's a sad state of affairs when I am completely unable to form an argument here. The f*cking Wii is destroying everything just as I said it would. I absolutely detest Nintendo for what they are doing, but there is NOTHING I can do about. Not a damn thing. The fact that something like Wii Sports, which I became tired of within 30 minutes and never really care to play again, is considered a f*cking killer app is distressing. People say graphics whores are shallow, but at least the games coupled with high-end visuals typically aren't. I can't say the same for most Wii games, though. Ugly AND simplistic.

I find games like Wario Ware or (insert Wii game here) fun on occasion, but they don't cut it for long. There will be great games for the Wii (and already are), but they are always going to be held back by the garbage Wii hardware. I would love for that to have no effect on my enjoyment, but it does.

Heh, oh well, at least the message boards are interesting in these times. Here's hoping Microsoft is able to put their gobs of money to use and stay in the race as PS3 is already a lost cause.

You see, this is how I feel about everything I've played on 360 and PS3, and most of gaming last gen. Point being, hardcore gamers have never really had a say on where gaming should go in the console arena. Sometimes they think they have because on occasions popular taste has run in parallel with theirs, but these are just coincidences.

Nobody posting on this forum is representative of the mass market, and more often than not has to 'make do' with whatever developers create and whichever way the industry goes. There is no destination where gaming should be headed, it's about entertaining as many people as possible and therefore making as much money as possible.

Sometimes you're in tune with popular taste, sometimes you're not.

The game industry has developed more and more into a boom-and-bust economy, or to put it another way a blockbuster economy. What if, because of a botched generation shift, everyone goes bust at once? It's good to have a safety net, one company that's moving a different direction while the other two move down the path expected by conventional wisdom. Because if conventional wisdom proves wrong all this specialized industry of developers and publishers has something profitable to fall back on. On top of that, the Wii doctrine itself argues against having a company's bottom line so perilously dependent on the success of high-budget franchises, and that's a good thing no matter what your preference in games is.

This doesn't mean the end of HD gaming, or the progress of cinematic game presentation. It's a crisis averted, and success on the Wii will eventually fuel future HD projects (though that may take a full generation to really ramp up).

I agree.

 

[hiryu]

Do you realize how important 2007 is to XBOX360, PS3, and PC? There are loads of high budget games being released this year that were started before the Wii craze. If too many of these titles fail at the hands of Wii, what message do you think that will send publishers? While we may see a whole slew of 2007 next generation games, that doesn't mean 2008 and beyond will be as kind to these machines. The market is still reacting to the Wii. 2007 is going to be a great year as these games were developed under different expectations, but beyond that, I fear for the industry.

How could publishers ignore the low cost development and high sales of Wii? F*ck the end product, it's all about the money. This is the video game BUSINESS, not an art show. If you aren't meeting sales numbers, what's the point? For those of us not taken by the Wii, this is upsetting.

I don't think you have to worry. The big Xbox 360 games will sell like gangbusters. Companies will make their money, but they will just have to make it on all the systems instead of just one. Sony will feel the brunt of this but as long as the big expensive games go multi platform they should be fine. There is still a very healthy market for big games with great graphics and big budgets. The market will be split more and we should see less of the quick cash ins on the 360 and PS3. All this means is that most of the games released on these systems will be great because a publisher can't afford to release crap anymore. If anything good comes out of this is hardware manufacturers will realize they can't sell systems at $400-$600 and expect very fast sales. This is a good thing in my opinion.

 

[Stitch]

 

[Threi]

Put it this way:

Lovers of high end graphics are NOT stuck with poor visuals(Wii) - they have a choice
Lovers of new ideas are NOT stuck with the "same old same old"(360) - they have a choice
Lovers of great value are NOT stuck with expensive hardware(PS3) - they have a choice

You have a choice this gen - you are going to get a great library regardless contrary to popular belief, so there is really no need to be bitching.

AND FOR F**KS SAKE STOP TALKING IN GODDAM ABSOLUTES ITS REALLY PISSING ME OFF

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

You certainly do not need to purchase an HDTV in order to enjoy XBOX360, but at least those who do have added benefits.

To a lesser extent, but it's true for the Wii as well. I certainly was not getting widescreen 480p on my SDTV.

A more powerful Wii would suffice as competition. My issue is with the Wii hardware. I do not expect XBOX360 power from Nintendo, but something a bit stronger than the original XBOX with support for higher resolutions surely would not have broken the Nintendo piggy bank.

It's true that Nintendo could've done something more powerful for $250-300 and kept their new tricks... but so could've Sony and Microsoft. No one did, so Nintendo is able to get away with it this time.

 

[Parl]

My fear going into this generation was that all three platforms would go the HD route, they would all offer systems at price tags above $300, that all major (and some minor) developers would commit themselves to manufacturing these huge budget titles, and... the sales would look like this, except WITHOUT the Wii. Basically I worried that the entire industry would overestimate consumer's willingness to buy in, precipitating a major crisis among publishers who would find little ground to support the second and third generation of extremely expensive games.

The game industry has developed more and more into a boom-and-bust economy, or to put it another way a blockbuster economy. What if, because of a botched generation shift, everyone goes bust at once? It's good to have a safety net, one company that's moving a different direction while the other two move down the path expected by conventional wisdom. Because if conventional wisdom proves wrong all this specialized industry of developers and publishers has something profitable to fall back on. On top of that, the Wii doctrine itself argues against having a company's bottom line so perilously dependent on the success of high-budget franchises, and that's a good thing no matter what your preference in games is.

This doesn't mean the end of HD gaming, or the progress of cinematic game presentation. It's a crisis averted, and success on the Wii will eventually fuel future HD projects (though that may take a full generation to really ramp up).

More specifically, Wii will only be the leader if the the high-def, high-end, high budget route was a mistake. A mainstream approach got Sony 70% market share last time, if MS and Sony don't total 70% market share between them, then maybe HD was too early. If they don't get 50%, then it's a mistake. The industry would've continued to shrink in Japan, and would most likely shrink in the west because of higher prices.

If Wii is successful, then it also most likely shows that it helped the industry out too. Look at handheld gaming - booming!

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Well dude, if your industry can be killed off so easily, maybe there is something focking wrong with it.

Yeah. We call them Nintards.

 

[gamerx]

Put it this way:

Lovers of high end graphics are NOT stuck with poor visuals(Wii) - they have a choice
Lovers of new ideas are NOT stuck with the "same old same old"(360) - they have a choice
Lovers of great value are NOT stuck with expensive hardware(PS3) - they have a choice

You have a choice this gen - you are going to get a great library regardless contrary to popular belief, so there is really no need to be bitching.

AND FOR F**KS SAKE STOP TALKING IN GODDAM ABSOLUTES ITS REALLY PISSING ME OFF

Just stop viewing this thread you "have a choice."

 

[Threi]

Just stop viewing this thread you "have a choice."

ok i lied its more "moderately annoying".

its just a stupid trend i see with people who are passionate about a topic.

its like "if you aren't black then you are white" and vice versa

 

[speedpop]

Last few pages of this thread has it all.

9/10.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

Of course not.

A more powerful Wii would suffice as competition. My issue is with the Wii hardware. I do not expect XBOX360 power from Nintendo, but something a bit stronger than the original XBOX with support for higher resolutions surely would not have broken the Nintendo piggy bank. That's from my perspective, though, not Nintendo's. They are loving the profit on every Wii sold...

Seriously. I detest how that Nintendo are the company to have been so successful and simultaneously been the company to so roundly reject the HD revolution.

Even if they had simply included more power to produce clean HD visuals, it would've been sufficient IMO.

But instead, it's the GC and a bit more... but in the hands of lazy developers often ends up even below the standards the GC brought to the table. And that is what bothers the hell out of me.

 

[Pokeylongo]

Hay guyz did you here the wii cant do graphicks well?

 

[P90]

It's a sad state of affairs when I am completely unable to form an argument here. The f*cking Wii is destroying everything just as I said it would. I absolutely detest Nintendo for what they are doing, but there is NOTHING I can do about. Not a damn thing. The fact that something like Wii Sports, which I became tired of within 30 minutes and never really care to play again, is considered a f*cking killer app is distressing. People say graphics whores are shallow, but at least the games coupled with high-end visuals typically aren't. I can't say the same for most Wii games, though. Ugly AND simplistic.

I find games like Wario Ware or (insert Wii game here) fun on occasion, but they don't cut it for long. There will be great games for the Wii (and already are), but they are always going to be held back by the garbage Wii hardware. I would love for that to have no effect on my enjoyment, but it does.

Heh, oh well, at least the message boards are interesting in these times. Here's hoping Microsoft is able to put their gobs of money to use and stay in the race as PS3 is already a lost cause.

Help me to understand why you (and others ) are so upset. The Wii is selling well. DS is the biggest monster in the history of gamin. "Non-games" are selling well, especially in Japan. Other developers want to take advantage of the larger marketshare of the Wii and DS so they can make money. Marketshare, i.e. consumers, is/are determining where resources will go. It has happened every generation, except in the case of money hats. Nintendo is not ruining gaming. It appears the market is saying that gaming tastes have changed. Some people won't pay top dollar for consoles and games that don't look much better on their present tvs. Maybe you should hang out at your local Target and beat the snot out of the next person that buys Cooking Mama because complaining here won't change the market.

Keep in mind that "casual" games fund "niche" and "hardcore" games or even some mainstream games, as in the case of Yu Gi Oh making it possible for Kojima to have the budget he needs to make MG games.

If you don't like the products being brought to market find another hobby, I guess. Forget Guitar Hero, buy a real guitar. Oh wait, Guitar Hero really is a "non-game".

 

[KINGMOKU]

"From hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee." - Moby Dick, Wrath of Khan, moku.

 

[Neomoto]

Why the F*CK should those of us who own HDTVs suffer?!?! XBOX360 is perfectly functional on SD and HDTVs. Microsoft is supporting everyone. Nintendo is not. You certainly do not need to purchase an HDTV in order to enjoy XBOX360, but at least those who do have added benefits.

No ofcourse you don't "need" to (I own a HD tv too btw), but I think most people who have a Xbox360 are hardcore gamers that are also early adopters. This shows in the high software sales in the US and such, most have HD TV's and a subscription for Xbox Live. If you do not have Xbox Live you are missing out on a lot on the console imo, and having a HD TV is "pretty handy" for the 'next-generation' experience, right? And Microsoft is supporting everyone yes, but that comes with a higher pricepoint. I admit though, that the Wii could most likely output 720p without a higher pricepoint. But then you have the problem that the graphics are "bad" or very basic in hd because it lacks the raw hardware power for great hd graphics (and for that to happen the price would go up and the concept of Wii would suffer greatly), so people will be unhappy no matter what. You ignored the lionshare of my post btw, it doesn't matter but now it only looks like you're just downplaying stuff for the sake of doing it.

 

[LCGeek]

No ofcourse you don't "need" to (I own a HD tv too btw), but I think most people who have a Xbox360 are hardcore gamers that are also early adopters. This shows in the high software sales in the US and such, most have HD TV's and a subscription for Xbox Live. If you do not have Xbox Live you are missing out on a lot on the console imo, and having a HD TV is "pretty handy" for the 'next-generation' experience, right? And Microsoft is supporting everyone yes, but that comes with a higher pricepoint. I admit though, that the Wii could most likely output 720p without a higher pricepoint. But then you have the problem that the graphics are "bad" or very basic in hd because it lacks the raw hardware power for great hd graphics (and for that to happen the price would go up and the concept of Wii would suffer greatly), so people will be unhappy no matter what. You ignored the lionshare of my post btw, it doesn't matter but now it only looks like you're just downplaying stuff for the sake of doing it.

HD graphics did you decide to blurt this out because of PR or something? HD or higher resolution is nothing new to gaming, well not pc games. Furthermore nothing makes a game necessarily hd except a resolution. Doom3 on the pc still looks great at any resolution if the texture quality is bumped same with many other games even older games still look good. As long as a game is built with textures that don't get assier as your screen res goes up almost anything can be made into hd with a resolution change. I hate when people trot out the HD phrase and try apply it to all graphical aspects of a game instead of what it was intended for. This is a console slogan phrase that needs to die off.

All three console are gimped, seems most here just like to acknowledge it for Wii. PS3 and 360 aren't offering the poly jump we saw from the previous gen and the fillrate jump we did see which is only a few times is all eaten by that lovely HD you guys just had to have. What we settled for was more shaders and better texturing for the most part with a meager poly count jump in comparison to last gen. Btw n64 offered about 150k in polys most last gen was RS with 22mil math makes that about 147 times the amount of polys. Not that I'm complaining but if I get really picky about thing or unrealistic it's easy to take this path when actually see how much we jumped in all areas of graphics last gen to compared to this both are big but this is definetly less.

 

[M3d10n]

Even if they had simply included more power to produce clean HD visuals, it would've been sufficient IMO.

No, it wouldn't. You guys would still be bitching about blurrier textures, lack of normal mapping on every surface, HDR. Look at all the bitching and nitpicking in 360/PS3 comparison threads.

 

[mclem]

This thread is so awesome it'd actually be worth reading again. :lol :lol

At the rate this is going, Sony could put in a "Lake of Fanboy Tears" outside of Sony HQ.

Tsk, Sony rip-off Nintendo *yet again*. Nintendo installed one a good ten years ago.

 

[DSN2K]

don't think people should worry, likely what will happen is the Wii income publishers make will pay for 360/ps3 development.

 

[Pureauthor]

don't think people should worry, likely what will happen is the Wii income publishers make will pay for 360/ps3 development.

They're going to use the profits they earned to make games with a higher investment and a greater risk of lower returns? What?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Even if they had simply included more power to produce clean HD visuals, it would've been sufficient IMO.

They designed a cheapish console for the lowest common denominator, and decided HD is not a wise use of finite hardware or software resources. If for whatever reason they'd decided to spend more money per Wii, it wouldn't have been to further modify the GameCube hardware to increase its specs to be more HD-friendly for the low percentage who could take advantage of it. They'd include a second controller or more flash storage first. They could've even increased the speed of their processors or added more RAM, but by foregoing HD all of that would be beneficial to those among the SD majority. 720p or better was at the bottom of their list of concerns.

 

[LCGeek]

They designed a cheapish console for the lowest common denominator, and decided HD is not a wise use of finite hardware or software resources. If for whatever reason they'd decided to spend more money per Wii, it wouldn't have been to further modify the GameCube hardware to increase its specs to be more HD-friendly for the low percentage who could take advantage of it. They'd include a second controller or more flash storage first. They could've even increased the speed of their processors or added more RAM, but by foregoing HD all of that would be beneficial to those among the SD majority. 720p or better was at the bottom of their list of concerns.

It wasn't a concern period from what iwata and nintendo's engineers have stated in various interviews. Once size, power consumption, and price became a huge factor in wii for graphics they gimped the system way quicker than the gc was, ironic because we ended up with a superset of it.

 

[haircut]

They're going to use the profits they earned to make games with a higher investment and a greater risk of lower returns? What?

For the love of making fantastic HD games-as-art experiences and to reward the true gamers.

 

[Krowley]

I assume that projects that have been started in the past six months have been much more geared toward Wii. Some of these are mainline games in major franchises. We haven't heard about them yet because they are so early in development. Just an assumption, and we'll see if its borne out in the next 18 months or so.

I decided to go through this thread and found this post.

There is actually clear evidence of that with two recent announcements... Rygar and Soul Calibur legends... Both games are so early that we've only got concept art which suggests they probably started on them AFTER the wii released. I think we'll see more announcements like this in the next few weeks... Games that are so early that they can't even show screenshots. Other devs will wait till they can show something more substantial, which means it may be next year or late this year.

Those two announcements in particular give me a lot of hope about the future of 3rd party support for the system. They're exactly the kind of games I was hoping to get.

Edit// oh yeah... I also wanted to say that moku's new avatar is awesome.

 

[ksamedi]

I cant believe that some people still dont see the mass appeal of the Wii. HD graphics mean nothing if the games are too complex for most gamers. In fact, the Wii is the only console that is designed for mass market, the 360 and PS3 were designed with internet hype.
The Wii was made small and silent to stay in the living room, it was made power efficient to constently stay on while nobody notices it and implement WiiConnect24. WiiConnect24 in turn makes the channel interface possible and opens up lots of oportunities for developers to reach a broader market. Even the onboard Wifi was included with Nintendos mass market approach (to keep the Wii in the livingroom). They even increased the consoles power while doing all that too keep the hardcore happy. On top of all that, they made a controller thats much more easier to use for most people than the 360 or PS3 controllers, and while its easier to use it can do much more complex gameplay than 360 and PS3 controllers. Im really in awe with what Nintendo did with this machine, its as mass market as it gets.

 

[RiskyChris]

don't think people should worry, likely what will happen is the Wii income publishers make will pay for 360/ps3 development.

Publishers will use Wii profits to make games that don't make profits?

It's an oversimplification, but why wouldn't Wii profits go to games that have better return on the dollar?

 

[Jamesfrom818]

don't think people should worry, likely what will happen is the Wii income publishers make will pay for 360/ps3 development.

 

[JDSN]

don't think people should worry, likely what will happen is the Wii income publishers make will pay for 360/ps3 development.

Is this "Bargaining" or "Denial"?

Edit: Oh ok.

 

[Dascu]

For the love of making fantastic HD games-as-art experiences and to reward the true gamers.

Yes, because non-HD games are not art. Okami, ICO, SotC, Wind Waker, Zelda TP, Killer7, RE4, MGS3, etc. all agree with you on that.

No, I'm not promoting that we stick to inferior technology, I'm saying there's no reason that the dated hardware on Wii means there can't be deep or artistic games on it. There's only a threat that developpers will stay away from making such games because it wouldn't fit the userbase. The Wii is a good chance for lower-budget developpers to create some good, artistic games. Also remember that because of the lower hardware specs, developpers could try to counter the HD graphics of other consoles by creating more artistic games (e.g. through cel-shading). Time will tell how it goes. Besides, I don't think X360 and PS3 support will just come to a halt.

 

[Krowley]

I'm just waiting for Atlus RPG's..

The wii seems like a perfect fit for that company... Just looking at SMT: Nocturne, it was a great game (best rpg on ps2 IMO) but the production values were sort of primitive.. It was all about artstyle.

I doubt if they're relishing the idea of making games for the HD consoles. They just don't seem like the kind of company that would be ready to make that jump.

 

[haircut]

Yes, because non-HD games are not art. Okami, ICO, SotC, Wind Waker, Zelda TP, Killer7, RE4, MGS3, etc. all agree with you on that.

Only HD allows games to approach the true vision of the artist.

Normal resolution is fine if you don't care about this sort of thing/don't take your gaming seriously.

 

[Threi]

Only HD allows games to approach the true vision of the artist.

Normal resolution is fine if you don't care about this sort of thing/don't take your gaming seriously.

my avatar is laughing at you

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Only HD allows games to approach the true vision of the artist.

Normal resolution is fine if you don't care about this sort of thing/don't take your gaming seriously.

... joke post?

Nobody can seriously think that way can they?

 

[Krowley]

Only HD allows games to approach the true vision of the artist.

Normal resolution is fine if you don't care about this sort of thing/don't take your gaming seriously.

Surley this is sarcasm...

 

[SouthernDragon]

Here's hoping Atlus makes more games for Wii. Trauma Center is excellent.

 

[Pureauthor]

I'm just waiting for Atlus RPG's..

The wii seems like a perfect fit for that company... Just looking at SMT: Nocturne, it was a great game (best rpg on ps2 IMO) but the production values were sort of primitive.. It was all about artstyle.

I doubt if they're relishing the idea of making games for the HD consoles. They just don't seem like the kind of company that would be ready to make that jump.

I seem to recall hearing that an SMT game was in development for next-gen consoles...

Anyway, I don't think Atlus would worry too much. They know the majority of their hardcore fanbase will go where the games go.

 

[LCGeek]

Surley this is sarcasm...

On this board can you ever be sure of something like that?