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[Neuromancer]

Remind me never to do anything to piss Jeff Green off.

 

[Oersted]

jealous much Brenda?

Thanks for being an example what is wrong with this industry.

It's still predominantly an industry by immature men for immature men unfortunately. What's really bad is people can't (won't) even realize it.

Are those these coregamers everyone is talking about?

 

[sakipon]

Maybe they should talk to the dancers themselves.

Many women I've talked to who dance for a living see it as empowering. They understand the sexualization and use it for their own gain. They aren't being taken advantage of, in fact, they are the ones taking advantage of a society who will pay a living wage to watch a women dance.

Anyway, food for thought. More than 2 sides to this debate.

I'm pretty sure the women in question are fine with dancing as a job. Dancers just shouldn't be hired for an event like this.

 

[Jay Sosa]

no pics?

 

[DR2K]

If there were scantily clad male dancers would they be as up in arms?

 

[freenudemacusers]

misandry claims another. it's no longer a man's forum.

rip

 

[Nekofrog]

Maybe they should talk to the dancers themselves.

Many women I've talked to who dance for a living see it as empowering. They understand the sexualization and use it for their own gain. They aren't being taken advantage of, in fact, they are the ones taking advantage of a society who will pay a living wage to watch a women dance.

Anyway, food for thought. More than 2 sides to this debate.

That is not at all the issue here, but thanks for trying.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Yes it was inappropriate to have these dancers at an official event and it shouldn't have happened, but that's it. No doubt Polygon and the Twitter PC brigade will turn this into some kind of sexism issue (oops, they already have).

 

[Tomat]

If there were scantily clad male dancers would they be as up in arms?

If that were the case I doubt this would be getting the attention is has been. It'd be a smaller more "Why the fuck are there dancers here at all?"

 

[robertsan21]

wow this world is going down the shitter. people get upset by anything these days, wtf.

 

[skip]

Yes it was inappropriate to have these dancers at an official event and it shouldn't have happened, but that's it. No doubt Polygon and the Twitter PC brigade will turn this into some kind of sexism issue (oops, they already have).

so you acknowledge it's a sexism issue and immediately whine about others turning it into a sexism issue. well done.

 

[JDSN]

She made a damn PLAYBOY game! Get off your horse, man.

Just because she was in a playboy game doesnt mean that she loves to watch strippers, and she if does love strippers, there is a chance that she might think its not inappropriate to see them on a supposed professional event.

Edit: Oh God, you were being sarcastic, kinda rough to know with some of the horrible responses going on.

Edit2: Oh shit, you werent being sarcastic!

 

[SkyOdin]

Maybe they should talk to the dancers themselves.

Many women I've talked to who dance for a living see it as empowering. They understand the sexualization and use it for their own gain. They aren't being taken advantage of, in fact, they are the ones taking advantage of a society who will pay a living wage to watch a women dance.

Anyway, food for thought. More than 2 sides to this debate.

Don't confuse people's personal reasons for doing things with systemic organizational or societal issues. Something like sexism within society or an organization is so big that it overwhelms and defines people's personal motivations. It doesn't matter if one woman is okay with something, since the issue affects every person involved, many of whom are not going to be okay with it.

 

[Just_myles]

I think black-tie event when I hear about a GDC party. Just me though.

 

[charsace]

She made a damn PLAYBOY game! Get off your horse, man.

What does making a game for playboy have to do with and IGDA gathering?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

That is not at all the issue here, but thanks for trying.

Yeah, that would be a valid observation if the contention was that dancing/modelling should be outlawed in favor of advocating that the girls find more respectable careers, as opposed to it being about the people that hired them for this event.

 

[Omikaru]

If there were scantily clad male dancers would they be as up in arms?

If men were a minority in the games industry, constantly subject to abuse/suspicion, treated as an object or a piece of meat by marketers, made to feel uncomfortable by the female majority, and whenever they spoke out they had to deal with ridiculous arguments like yours, then yes, probably.

 

[Maxim726X]

It's a male oriented hobby. Males like scantly clad women.

I guess I should be careful not to say much else or else I'll get banned for disagreeing with the popular opinion here.

PS- It may have been completely and utterly tasteless, but that by itself does not make it sexist.

 

[HappyHunting]

If there were scantily clad male dancers would they be as up in arms?

I'm pretty sure the male guests wouldn't be too happy. Your example only shows short-sightedness

The issue is the industry is pandering to a single demographic thus segragating the other.
It's also a disturbing trend which I am glad is being brought to light more and more. The more public this kind of stupid behaviour becomes the more things will be done to prevent them and change insues.

 

[freenudemacusers]

If there were scantily clad male dancers would they be as up in arms?

I'm sure a lot of dudes would be wondering why scantily clad male dancers were there. I mean, duh.

 

[unbias]

I see what you're saying, but usually when one leaves an organization under such means, it's because there's nothing it can do to win them back. I think the statement of leaving because the inner workings are so backwards as to make such grandiose mistakes sends a pretty clear message to all watching; that the IGDA isn't worth your patronage or time. That's pretty nuclear.

But, if, in her mind, that organization is THAT BAD, then perhaps it's not worth our time and attention.

Ya, for sure. I think so many times advocacy groups(the organization, not the people necessarily) come to this weird conclusion that they are not replaceable with a better organization. I think it is a unhealthy mindset to think you have to stay and change the company, because it is just so valuable. Leaving, and creating a market for a better advocacy group, is to me, much more effective because it allows for a better foundation, which is much more important for a advocacy organization(as we have seen in non gaming iterations).

 

[Kuroyume]

It starting to feel like Puritan times again.

We can't both coexist? You have well dressed female developers in attendance and some fun scantily clad ladies?

This hypersensitivity regarding females in gaming is starting to get ridiculous. It's worth celebrating women in the industry and it's worth talking about how they're represented but you can't just have one view point and not the other. All forms of expression should be allowed.

 

[catmincer]

She made a damn PLAYBOY game! Get off your horse, man.

Playboy is inherently sexualised and she would have known this so that seems irrelevant.

However an industry party is not an appropriate event to sexualise regardless of the gender of the dancers.

 

[Paul Alexander]

I don't doubt that is what would have happened. But do you disagree with what I said the reaction would be if they left out of "indignation" like PLAYBOY game maker BR?

Is this meant to be some sort of smoking gun? That because she participated in the making of a game with sexual content she has surrendered the right to criticize the inappropriateness of certain types of behavior with sexual content involved? Consent and context matters. The alleged wrongheadedness of it isn't merely that there were scantily clad dancers, it was where they were and what they were doing there.

To debate the relative skimpiness of their outfits or compare them to cheerleaders is to misunderstand the nature of the debate.

 

[Valnen]

If men were a minority in the games industry, constantly subject to abuse/suspicion, treated as an object or a piece of meat by marketers, made to feel uncomfortable by the female majority, and whenever they spoke out they had to deal with ridiculous arguments like yours, then yes, probably.

You realize there are a lot of women into that kind of entertainment too right?

People calling for firings over this are ridiculous, maybe they should experience what it's like to be jobless before they say such things.

However an industry party is not an appropriate event to sexualise regardless of the gender of the dancers.

Why not?

 

[Mystic_Wanderer]

Just because she was in a playboy game doesnt mean that she loves to watch strippers, and she if does love strippers, there is a chance that she might think its not inappropriate to see them on a supposed professional event. Mind you, the gay stripper point you are trying to make doesnt even make sense.

What's more damaging to women:

- Making a ridiculously sexist game like Playboy, and removing one of the lone influential (dunno this woman, I am assuming she is influential) female voices in a position like she had.

- Women getting paid to dance at a party.


This woman can never speak about feminism ever with any sort of credibility for having made the playboy game.

 

[mentalfloss]

I'm not defending the party, but isn't it possible that the organizers can simply acknowledge a mistake and not do it again next year?

Why does the necessary response have to be a termination of jobs?

Why do we have so little faith that people can change?

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

so you acknowledge it's a sexism issue and immediately whine about others turning it into a sexism issue. well done.

The issue here is one of taste and professionalism, not sexism.

Hiring dancers for a party is not sexist. For some events it's totally appropriate and even encouraged.

 

[unbias]

Just because she was in a playboy game doesnt mean that she loves to watch strippers, and she if does love strippers, there is a chance that she might think its not inappropriate to see them on a supposed professional event. Mind you, the gay stripper point you are trying to make doesnt even make sense.

Ya, just because you make a playboy games doesn't mean that she cant get mad/offended at the unprofessional and "boys club" appearance the party had. The 2 are not related, at all, really.

 

[Madness]

It's an IGDA gathering, not a bachelor party. Do you really need to think about whether scantily clad go-go dancers would be appropriate or not?

It's a fine line in America these days. I'm one of those guys who has no problem with using sexuality to sell products or create hype.

But you'd think an organization that represents women as well as men, would be more mindful about throwing such a party.

 

[Omikaru]

I'm not defending the party, but isn't it possible that the organizers can simply acknowledge a mistake and not do it again next year?

Why does the necessary response have to be a termination of jobs?

Why do we have so little faith that people can change?

This is the second year in a row that it's happened.

 

[SkyOdin]

It's a male oriented hobby. Males like scantly clad women.

I guess I should be careful not to say much else or else I'll get banned for disagreeing with the popular opinion here.

PS- It may have been completely and utterly tasteless, but that by itself does not make it sexist.

Who decreed that it was going to be a male-oriented hobby? The fact that gaming is perceived as a male-oriented hobby is a huge part of the problem in the first place. All it does is damage the industry's possible consumer base, and limits its potential.

 

[MC Safety]

What does making a game for playboy have to do with and IGDA gathering?

Well, it's a non-sequitur, really, but the Playboy game was pretty offensive in its depiction of women.

Oddly, the best part of the game was trying to compose an issue of Playboy and maximize its quality.

 

[freenudemacusers]

I'm curious what is a worse insult: idiot or sexist?

 

[gryz]

you guys are being dumb. there need to either be no dancers, or both male and female dancers for all to enjoy. i think most of you would feel weird if you went to an event and there were only a bunch of naked dudes dancing around.

 

[skip]

The issue here is one of taste and professionalism, not sexism.

I will play along. explain how this incident was done in bad taste and unprofessional.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

It starting to feel like Puritan times again.

We can't both coexist? You have well dressed female developers in attendance and some fun scantily clad ladies?

Can you explain what tangible benefits there are to having dancers at such an event outside of "hey, us guys love having eye candy around no matter the time and place." I get that employing attractive women in various states of undress is a popular hook for many bars and clubs, but that doesn't mean that it's always appropriate.

 

[Paul Alexander]

This woman can never speak about feminism ever with any sort of credibility for having made the playboy game.

Okay...You've revealed you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[charsace]

It starting to feel like Puritan times again.

We can't both coexist? You have well dressed female developers in attendance and some fun scantily clad ladies?

This hypersensitivity regarding females in gaming is starting to get ridiculous. It's worth celebrating women in the industry and it's worth talking about how they're represented but you can't just have one view point and not the other. All forms of expression should be allowed.

What the fuck are you going on about? What do paid dancers have to do with female members of the game industry?

 

[Mystic_Wanderer]

It's not unrelated. It shows she is hypocritical.

But that doesn't fit in with some of your pre-determined narratives, so of course, her making one of the most sexist games in recent times is unimportant. Got it.

 

[nampad]

Forbes has a picture to the story: http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpi...da-party-at-gdc-brings-on-the-female-dancers/


I for one am not offended and think this is overblown.

 

[JehutyRunner]

Official statement from IGDA.

As many of you know, the IGDA was a co-presenter of the Yetizen party Tuesday evening. We recognize that some of the performers' costumes at the party were inappropriate, and also some of the activities they performed were not what we expected or approved.

We regret the IGDA was involved in this situation. We do not condone activities that objectify or demean woman or any other group of people. One of the core values of the IGDA is encouraging inclusion and diversity.

Obviously we need to be more vigilant in our efforts. We intend to be so in the future.

 

[Kuroyume]

Can you explain what tangible benefits there are to having dancers at such an event outside of "hey, us guys love having eye candy around no matter the time and place." I get that employing attractive women in various states of undress is a popular hook for many bars and clubs, but that doesn't mean that it's always appropriate.

Maybe it's to helps lighten the mood and make it festive. It's a "party" after all not a funeral service.

What the fuck are you going on about? What do paid dancers have to do with female members of the game industry?

It's a party. What do YOU not comprehend?

 

[unbias]

The issue here is one of taste and professionalism, not sexism.

Hiring dancers for a party is not sexist. For some events it's totally appropriate and even encouraged.

It is both. Hiring dancers, specifically for men, in a crowed with mixed genders, for a advocacy group for developers is sexist. It isnt sexist in a "women dont belong" but in a "this is really a boys club" kind of way. It isnt overt but it is a giant light shining on the people who planned the event, essentially implying that the women are not in their minds when setting these things up.

The professionalism is a massive problem though, I agree, and is probably a large reason why this crap happens, but it was sexist, just not a blatant statement of sexism, but more of a disregard for the women in/for/wanting with the orginization.

 

[AkuMifune]

It's an IGDA gathering, not a bachelor party. Do you really need to think about whether scantily clad go-go dancers would be appropriate or not?

It's a fine line in America these days. I'm one of those guys who has no problem with using sexuality to sell products or create hype.

But you'd think an organization that represents women as well as men, would be more mindful about throwing such a party.

Yeah, I think a lot of people are missing the context.

She just got done with a panel discussing how difficult it is for women to get into and maintain respect within the industry and how have to struggle for equality, then immediately afterwards the IGDA has their annual officially sponsored event party that basically has strippers in it. Gee, why is it so hard for women to get respect when the IGDA itself is so ignorant to it's own misogyny?

 

[Paul Alexander]

Forbes has a picture to the story: http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolpi...da-party-at-gdc-brings-on-the-female-dancers/


I for one am not offended and think this is overblown.

you might feel differently if you were a female IGDA member.

 

[Tomat]

It's an IGDA gathering, not a bachelor party. Do you really need to think about whether scantily clad go-go dancers would be appropriate or not?

It's a fine line in America these days. I'm one of those guys who has no problem with using sexuality to sell products or create hype.

But you'd think an organization that represents women as well as men, would be more mindful about throwing such a party.

This is valid question that shows just how silly the whoever planned this party is. It's a professional event. Scantily clad dancers is not the first thing I think of when I think of professional event... unless of course, it's a professional scantily clad dancing event or something.

I don't deny that there is sexism in the video game industry (although I do not speak from first hand knowledge. I'm a college student, I have never worked in the industry), so I hope nobody interprets this post as me lessening the importance of the issue, which was not my intention.

 

[Joe Molotov]

If there were scantily clad male dancers would they be as up in arms?

I'm sure we'll never find out.

 

[Maxim726X]

Who decreed that it was going to be a male-oriented hobby? The fact that gaming is perceived as a male-oriented hobby is a huge part of the problem in the first place. All it does is damage the industry's possible consumer base, and limits its potential.

From what I've read, it's a 60/40 split (M/F), so it is predominantly a male-oriented hobby.

And that's where the marketing dollars are aimed at mostly

 

[Sibylus]

So the sponsor pulled this juvenile crap not once, but twice? Is the IGDA asleep or complicit?

So female dancers being PAID and CHOOSING to dance for men who want to have a good time stirs another pointless sexism debate? This isn't feminist, this is misandry.

Be honest: did you strain a muscle with this ass-pull?