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IGN: "A Link to the Past is the only Zelda game ever made"

I guess it's become cool to hate Ocarina of Time among some Zelda fans. The Majora's Mask & Link to the Past fans tend to be the most annoying. I think Ocarina of Time is the finest Zelda game ever made, I guess I'm not a true Zelda player seeing as how I went for the "obvious" answer.
 
I get the "first" Zelda game. I can kind of understand that.

But to call it the "only" and act as if "Well, I am obviously right" is ****ing stupid.
 
omg rite said:
Completely disagree. It was short, for a Zelda game, but that's okay. I didn't think objectives were unsatisfying and I thought it had some of the best dungeons in a Zelda ever.

Plus, I thought the dual world setup worked wonderfully. The world wasn't as small as it looked, as you could find all these little nooks and crannies all over the place.
Click to expand...
Well agree to disagree then I guess. I felt the dungeons were overly gimmicky and the dual world cheaply scripted in terms of progression... the whole thing felt like Zelda-lite on rails for 10-12 hours. Doesn't even rank next to the superior GB/GBC Zeldas.


omg rite said:
Wish Capcom were doing PH.
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Capcom's already proven they can't handle Zelda well enough on their lonesome. PH's in much better hands now.


jett said:
Majora's Mask is the exception, but it's still rooted in OoT gameplay which takes a ****load of cues from LTTP. :P
Click to expand...
OoT takes it general world design and progression from ALTTP... which are the exact elements MM throws out.
 
Anyone who calls Ocarina of Time "TOOT" should be shot...

ALttP is the best Zelda game. This is a fact. Here are the reasons why:

1) The most dungeons of any Zelda game.
2) The first Zelda title to feature multi-floor puzzles in dungeons.
3) The first Zelda title to have a dynamic story that progressed as you moved on, rather than a bland intro and that was it.
4) Most of the franchise's music was established in this game, including Zelda's Theme, The Lost Woods, the Fairy Theme, Ganon's Theme, etc.
5) First game to deliver to the true "feeling" of a magical kingdom due to SNES's graphical capabilities (for the time, for 2D graphics, it was awesome).
6) The hookshot, bombos medallion and the moon pearl.
7) Blending the Magic Meter system from The Adventure of Link with Zelda 1's top-down, item select gameplay - a staple for many games to come.
8) The game was not easy. It may be easy by today's standards, but I died 97 fricking times trying to beat it my first time. NOBODY beat ALttP without dying in 1992. Nobody. Even to this day, good luck beating it without dying (fairy in bottle users are cheaters).
9) Incorporation of spin attack and swimming were a first.
10) First game to use a "dual world" setup with the Light and Dark Worlds, sadly overused nowadays.
11) Best bosses, ever.
12) Tons of enemies - most in a Zelda game, ever I believe.
13) Introduced The Master Sword.
14) Introduced the Great Fairies.
15) Chris Houlihan room.
16) Introduced Kakariko Village.

I could go on...
 
jett said:
Majora's Mask is the exception, but it's still rooted in OoT gameplay which takes a ****load of cues from LTTP. :P

I never said if it was a good or a bad thing, I love both AoL and MM, just so you know.
Click to expand...

Likewise Lttp takes a shitload of cues from the original Legend of Zelda. That's why they are in the same series, you know?
 
drawn_toot_ling.jpg

hee hee, TOOT!
 
kammy said:
LTTP' DNA is all over every other Zelda. Its also the best looking. The world is more consistant and alive. Only MM comes close. TP seems more like a series of levels.
Click to expand...


You are insane, there is more activity in Castle town in TP then all of LTTP. Now Don't get me wrong I LOVE LTTP probably my number 2 or number 3 favorite Zelda. That said how ever you are completely wrong in that. TP seems like a cohesive world, a solid living world, I really don't see how you get it as a series of levels that makes no sense what so ever.
 
Personally I want to see a Zelda game that shakes the very foundation of the entire series. Zelda games are starting to become way too predictable. The only big shocker to me was from Majora's Mask, and it wasn't a good one (WTF?
4
dungeons? I know this game is about the sidequests and all, and that last dungeon was incredibly huge, but c'mon.) I know half of what is going to happen in the game before I even start playing it. I want a Zelda that truly shocks me and actually fixes the important issues of the previous game (OH DEAR GOD REAL COMBAT PLOX). I remember reading somewhere that Twilight Princess would be the last Zelda in the form we know it. I hope it's true.
 
Minish Cap was disappointing and easily the worst Zelda game ever made. As good as the Oracle games were Minish Cap and Four Swords makes me glad Capcom isn't doing the next handheld Zelda.

Not to mention EAD actually turned Four Swords into something good with Four Swords Adventures...


The free-flowing gameplay of LoZ is superior to the more ridgid ALTTP. The 'fleshing-out' in ALTTP detracted from the original play mechanic. LoZ had many novel ways of obstructing areas of the overworld, including having some areas be too difficult to play through unless you had a good sword, a ring, or sufficient skill at playing.
Click to expand...

I agree actually.. The original is still the best in so many ways. My favourites are Link's Awakening and Majora's Mask but the freedom and exploration of the first Zelda is just unmatched.
 
Shin Johnpv said:
You are insane, there is more activity in Castle town in TP then all of LTTP. Now Don't get me wrong I LOVE LTTP probably my number 2 or number 3 favorite Zelda. That said how ever you are completely wrong in that. TP seems like a cohesive world, a solid living world, I really don't see how you get it as a series of levels that makes no sense what so ever.
Click to expand...
But Castle Town doesn't have more (or much more) than Castle Town in OoT or Windfall in WW, and Clock Town laughs in its face. Having all the NPCs to make it seem like a town is nice, but too bad there is very little to actually do in the town.
 
LttP is good, but I've never liked its character art style much (the ingame designs, I mean), and its interface is primitive compared to any of the major Zelda games since it, and while its story is better than LoZ/AoL, it's still not exactly good... I didn't have an SNES until last year but got the game for GBA a few years back. Never finished it, because it was hard and I got bored... got the SNES version last year, and while I liked it a bit more than the GBA one (full-size screen, better music, no required use of shoulder buttons), I haven't finished that one either. Link's Awakening is still by far my favorite 2d Zelda (though OoT is the best in the series, LA comes second overall).

Link's Awakening > Oracle of Ages > LttP > Oracle of Seasons > LoZ (haven't played enough Four Swords/FS Adventure to count them, if they do count (probably not), and I don't have AoL or Minish Cap) ... of course though, they're all great games. :)
 
LTTP really did inform the design of the 3D iterations, no doubt. The basic game design and structure is all there, which obvious differences in setting, storyline, specific items and puzzles and, of course, the once brilliant 'Z' trigger combat.

The real game getting slighted here is the original. It was absolutely brilliant for its time, and it clearly set the basic design for the entire series. LTTP really refined the formula, but the first created a new type of open-world gameplay.

This writer is probably younger than me, and he might never have seen the first Zelda in its original context, but there is still a burden on him to learn about the lineage of the series before dismissing all but one of the installments.

All that said, it's no big deal. It's just a LTTP love-in, nothing to get worked up about.
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
I don't agree. The game they keep making over and over and over is Ocarina of Time.
Click to expand...

Which Zelda game was a remake of Ocarina of Time? The one with the 3 day time system and masks sub-quests ? the one set on the sea? or the one where link transforms into a wolf? never mind the new items and bosses and innovative dungeons in each game, no they're all just REMAKES.


STFU, please.
 
Chrono said:
Which Zelda game was a remake of Ocarina of Time? The one with the 3 day time system and masks sub-quests ? the one set on the sea? or the one where link transforms into a wolf? never mind the new items and bosses and innovative dungeons in each game, no they're all just REMAKES.


STFU, please.
Click to expand...


It's true! How can you not realize? Just like every Final Fantasy is a remake of the first one, because they are all fantasy role playing games in which you play as a character leading a party of other characters towards a certain goal.
 
The 3d games after Link to the Past added a fun combat system, nice cinematics, more complex NPCs, deeper narrative and pretty visuals. Everything else about the way a contemporary Zelda makes you play and think is in A Link to the Past. Its an epic adventure that every Zelda fan should play ESPECIALLY if they started playing in 1998 and think Ocarina of Time is the be all and end all of gaming. And they should bare in mind that it came out in 1991! If a game of the same scope and vision could be made today in 3D, with the same tight realisation, it would be incredible. That's why its still the barometer for me.

I've been playing through the original again on VC, and I agree, its influence should not be denied. An incredible achievement. But to me it will always be the skeleton on which LTTP was built.
 
The reviewer (Lucas) clearly said that he recognizes The Legend of Zelda as the first Zelda game, but that it's only a skeleton, while ALttP also got the meat.

Though I can't say I agree with him on some parts of the review. He just sees ALttP superior to other Zeldas, and really wanted to point it out. It's his opinion. Besides, even if he makes some weird reviews (this retro stuff) every now and then, his comics (Cubetoons) is funny stuff. You just need to know the IGN people to get most of the jokes...
 
ghostlyjoe said:
The real game getting slighted here is the original. It was absolutely brilliant for its time, and it clearly set the basic design for the entire series.
Click to expand...
Entire genre really.
 
shidoshi said:
Well, the N64 versions were crap. Haven't played WW, and can't yet properly judge Twilight Princess.

If you were asking me which versions of Zelda to care about, Link to the Past would be my first answer without hesitation. The GameBoy versions were also pretty good as well, though, but they were basically remakes of the SNES version, so hey.
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Eh?

Well I liked the GB/GBA games as much as LttP. Especially Link's Awakening.
 
The guy posted this on the IGN boards:

Hey guys!

I see that lots of people have taken the review for A Link to the Past pretty negatively, and I figured that would be the case. So, want to know why I wrote it in such a wild and different ways, peppered with ridiculously outlandish statements? Conversation.

I'm tired of the same old discussions every Monday, about "Nintendo sucks! When are they going to release GAME X?" and "The Virtual Console blows, because of blah blah blah." So here's a great, classic game that's really worth talking about and worth getting excited about. I could have written a really standard, by-the-numbers review of it, given it a great score and moved along. But why not take the opportunity to really examine the title in a different light, 15 years later?

Honestly, A Link to the Past isn't my favorite Zelda game. I think the 3D Zeldas have totally rocked overall, and I think they've done a ton to add to the series. But Twilight Princess, Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time do all copy the structure of A Link to the Past – you have a short intro period that takes you to and through your first dungeon area, then the game opens up to wider exploration, then you complete a handful of dungeons to collect some trinkets that will take you to a sequence of collecting the Master Sword, then something happens and you find that you've got a bunch more dungeons to trek through...we could keep going and going.

Honestly, you could see that even Nintendo is getting a bit used to the standard formula in Twilight Princess – when you get to grabbing the Master Sword, it's not even really handled with reverence any more. Oh yeah, go grab that blade in the pedestal in old forest area. I'm sure it'll be useful for something.

I never said that the Zelda games other than A Link to the Past have sucked. My point was that each one since has been basically a retelling of the same story, following closely to the same structure established in 1992. That point is even supported by some fans who argue against a cohesive timeline for the series – maybe there's no good way for these games to fit together chronologically because they really were never meant to. All just existing as their own tales, except for the few that directly flow into one another (Wind Waker -> Phantom Hourglass).

So, take the review how you will. There are plenty of you that think I suck, and I appreciate that. You guys are the ones who keep the conversations interesting, and I value it when you take the time to point out specifically what you disagree with about statements I've made, rather than just typing "Lucas blows" and clicking Post Reply. The bottom line is that A Link to the Past rocks, it should be respected for laying down the foundation followed by the series ever since, and you should download it.
Click to expand...

Summary:
-"I did it for the attention! :("
 
Good god now even I lost respect for IGN.

Now what gaming journalist website can I turn to for somewhat valid opinions? :(
 
JDSN said:
The guy posted this on the IGN boards:

Summary:
-"I did it for the attention! :("
Click to expand...
The guy doesn't need attention on the Wii forums on IGN at least. Everyone knows him already. We know he's a huge Elebits fan, and the Cubetoons comic creator. Like he said, he wanted to stir some shit up, so that it's not always the same stuff people are talking about (or more like whining). This forum is full of similar people who act like some über fanboys when it comes to some specific game or franchise, although they don't actually even like the game(s) THAT much.

(Btw, I'm not trying to defend the guy to no end. Like I said, I don't even agree with the guy in some points he made, but whatever.)
 
I absolutely agree with this. Everything was so balanced in that game. My biggest gripe with the newer games is that the accessory weapons have become so useless; you use them to solve specific puzzles but nothing more.
 
This is just another one of Lucas M Thomas' incredible displays of stupidity. I made a thread about his hilariously bad writing once before. I'm not entirely beyond doing it again.

If you look through his articles (especially on the DS channel), you're likely to find at least one or two major gaffs in each one -- blatant contradictions, glaring oversights, baffling turns of phrase, and really, really amateurish modes of opinion giving. And, most wonderfully, the guy isn't beyond using onomatopoeia in his write-ups (Zap! Zoom!).

(I won't go into detail now, but it is worth mentioning that this particular never-will-be, who runs the VC reviews, has framed the purpose of the reviews in a way that makes absolutely no sense. And, eventually, he admitted openly that his claims about the purpose of the VC reviews were insane and mutually exclusive. But, whatever.)

So, yeah, the guy is a friggin' joke. Taking him seriously is not a good idea.





EDIT
JDSN said:
The guy posted this on the IGN boards:

Summary:
-"I did it for the attention! :("
Click to expand...

There is something beautiful and hilarious about a hack freelancer, with about as much talent and editorial wit as a high school newspaper editor, deciding to pull some kind of intentional attention grab. Brilliant. This guy is officially my favorite IGN writer.
 
What a retarded review. It seems like IGN is just farming out a lot of their content to high school kids these days. Nothing against high school kids, if they can write a cogent opinion without resorting to attention whoring.
 
TSA said:
Anyone who calls Ocarina of Time "TOOT" should be shot...

ALttP is the best Zelda game. This is a fact. Here are the reasons why:

1) The most dungeons of any Zelda game.
2) The first Zelda title to feature multi-floor puzzles in dungeons.
3) The first Zelda title to have a dynamic story that progressed as you moved on, rather than a bland intro and that was it.
4) Most of the franchise's music was established in this game, including Zelda's Theme, The Lost Woods, the Fairy Theme, Ganon's Theme, etc.
5) First game to deliver to the true "feeling" of a magical kingdom due to SNES's graphical capabilities (for the time, for 2D graphics, it was awesome).
6) The hookshot, bombos medallion and the moon pearl.
7) Blending the Magic Meter system from The Adventure of Link with Zelda 1's top-down, item select gameplay - a staple for many games to come.
8) The game was not easy. It may be easy by today's standards, but I died 97 fricking times trying to beat it my first time. NOBODY beat ALttP without dying in 1992. Nobody. Even to this day, good luck beating it without dying (fairy in bottle users are cheaters).
9) Incorporation of spin attack and swimming were a first.
10) First game to use a "dual world" setup with the Light and Dark Worlds, sadly overused nowadays.
11) Best bosses, ever.
12) Tons of enemies - most in a Zelda game, ever I believe.
13) Introduced The Master Sword.
14) Introduced the Great Fairies.
15) Chris Houlihan room.
16) Introduced Kakariko Village.

I could go on...
Click to expand...

these are mostly just arbitrary points though. just because it was the 'first' game to do something doesn't make it the best. I guess it depends on the era you're playing it. If there is a game that is 'strictly' better, that is, it's identical, but with some additions (doesn't really happen strictly all that much in the video game world, but a good example would be Mario Allstars) that don't change the gameplay...which is teh better ganme?teh one that is stictly better, or the one that did it first?
 
mrkgoo said:
these are mostly just arbitrary points though. just because it was the 'first' game to do something doesn't make it the best. I guess it depends on the era you're playing it. If there is a game that is 'strictly' better, that is, it's identical, but with some additions (doesn't really happen strictly all that much in the video game world, but a good example would be Mario Allstars) that don't change the gameplay...which is teh better ganme?teh one that is stictly better, or the one that did it first?
Click to expand...

Don't worry, TSA is a hack anyway. The crap he tries to pull on his site..
 
LttP is a remake of LoZ
OoT is a remake of LttP
TP is a remake of OoT

lolamirte?

But seriously now, there's definitely a strong connection between these four titles. It's like they are basically all a retelling of the same story, only with quite a bit of differentiation between them. Just like real legends are told too. Arguably, you could leave out LoZ, since it's storytelling was a bit too simplistic to be really included with the other three. Also, it lacks some of the fundamentals that were introduced by LttP. Fundamentals which then became standards for the 'main' iterations of the series.

It's basically the story/legend of this young boy/man who gets chosen by the Gods/Goddesses through the Triforce of Courage to combat evil,
in all cases personified by Ganon(dorf) who wields the Triforce of Power
, by means of the Master Sword (aka the Blade of Evil's Bane) and Princess Zelda who wields the Triforce of Wisdom, so the holy land/kingdom/realm of Hyrule can be saved while the Dark World/Twilight Realm/Sacred Realm/Golden Land is kept at bay. To achieve this, he first has to collect three magical artifacts from three dungeons to gain access to something important. Afterward, the hero gets thrown into his real quest which consists of trekking through another 6-8 dungeons and collecting artifacts from them so he can reach the source of evil and defeat/kill/banish it.

Sure, both OoT and TP added more elements to this overall tale (OoT introduced the Gerudo, Goron, Kokiri and Sheika; TP introduced the Twili and Midna) and both of them played around with the alternate world theme a bit
(OoT turned it into a dark future; TP turned it into a seperate kingdom with it's own royal family and society)
, but the fundamentals of the story are always the same.
All the way up to Ganondorf plotting a scheme against a royal family to gain absolute power.

To make a long story short: I think that's what he meant when he said that LttP is the only Zelda game ever made. Yes, it's a hyperbole, but he is true in the sense that LttP's basic plot and (gameplay) structure is exactly the same as in OoT and TP, the other two 'main' iterations in the series. So LttP really did lay down the groundwork for at least those two titles.

Also, arguments could be made to include TWW and Minish Cap within the 'main' line of titles as well. In many respects, TWW has a lot in common with LttP/OoT/TP storywise, but Ganondorf's role is kind of different
and Hyrule has sunken beneath the ocean
. Also, it doesn't share the same structure of dungeons like Lttp/OoT/TP, though it comes kinda close (rushed development could be blamed for this). The Minish Cap has a different main villain and a different 'sacred blade', even though their basic roles are comparable to the villain and weapon from the 'main' games. Also, both of these games lack the dual world setup
(though sunken Hyrule could sort of count as the alternate world in TWW and the Minish World in MC's case)
.

Bottom line:
'Main' series: (LoZ) LttP -> OoT -> TP (TWW, MC)
'Alternate' games: AoL -> LA -> MM -> OoA/OoS (TWW, MC)

I think it could even be argued that LoZ doesn't belong to either of these. It could be considered a seperate game which established the most basic formula of the series (ie. skeleton).

Oh, something I'm now wondering about after typing this in regards to TP's storyline:
was it just me or is the Triforce never even mentioned ONCE in the entire game? Hell, it's role was incredibly small period!
 
My Arms Your Hearse said:
I don't agree. The game they keep making over and over and over is Ocarina of Time.
Click to expand...

What? The only one close to being a remade OoT is TP. And it doesn't even do that very good.


I love LttP. I loved the items, the art, and the world. Seemed so amazing. The story too (as much as most of you may laugh), and the final battle with Ganon was totally satisfying. Music is probably the best of the series so far too.
 
I didn't feel much Ocarina of Time in Twilight Princess at all. Maybe the first couple of hours until after the first temple but not much after that.
 
dont know if anyone mentioned (didnt read every single post) ... but how is Wind Waker the same formula? It seemed vastly different than ocarina and alltp. The only simular game is twighlight princess and ocarina ... which I think is a great thing ... go figure
 
genjiZERO said:
I absolutely agree with this. Everything was so balanced in that game. My biggest gripe with the newer games is that the accessory weapons have become so useless; you use them to solve specific puzzles but nothing more.
Click to expand...

I feel that LttP was the game that had one-off items.

jarrod said:
Capcom's already proven they can't handle Zelda well enough on their lonesome. PH's in much better hands now.
Click to expand...

Even after Oracle of Ages/Seasons?

Xav said:
I guess it's become cool to hate Ocarina of Time among some Zelda fans. The Majora's Mask & Link to the Past fans tend to be the most annoying. I think Ocarina of Time is the finest Zelda game ever made, I guess I'm not a true Zelda player seeing as how I went for the "obvious" answer.
Click to expand...

I've always thought the least of Ocarina of Time for various reasons, and for the record, I'm a Link's Awakening kind of guy. (Though MM was sweet.) Lack of enemies, slow pacing in many puzzles, and hand-holding off the top of my head.

Thirded on the Zelda II-style revisiting. If anyone here meets Miyamoto within the next few months, can they ask him if he and/or his team have thought of revisiting that style of gameplay, even if only for a remake? I'd appreciate it lots!
 
Since LttP? Majora's Mask is the only one to prove him wrong...

I also didn't see him mention it. So maybe he does consider MM a unique game in the franchise
 
The one thing the 3D games haven't matched is the action of the 2D games outside of the boss battles. Twilight Princess is getting closer, but I want to see the screen full of enemies, and be under constant assault/danger when I go into a new area. Things are much more puzzle based instead of twitch action now. Kinda the same thing that happened to Mario when he went to 3D.

And as many steps forward as LTTP took from LOZ, it took some steps back, especially as far as non-linearity goes.
 
Gattsu25 said:
Since LttP? Majora's Mask is the only one to prove him wrong...

I also didn't see him mention it. So maybe he does consider MM a unique game in the franchise
Click to expand...

That, and Zelda II.

R0nn said:
'Alternate' games: AoL -> LA -> MM -> OoA/OoS (TWW, MC)
Click to expand...

Lol. Those, sans TWW and MC perhaps, are my most favorite in the series.
 
cartman414 said:
I feel that LttP was the game that had one-off items.
Click to expand...

really? You could use the items to do almost anything - arrows, hoow shot, magc wands - all could be used anytime you wanted. In the 3D games you couldn't do that nearly as easily. I never understood the point in having both a grappling hook and a hookshot
 
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