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[VerTiGo]

This is some serious bull shit because I fucking love Accent Core for the Wii. I'm not playing it with the Wii-mote, using the GC controller. The game is awesome.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

Seems fair. They should have made the game actually play worth a damn, on the wiimote, since...you know, thats what everyone that bought a wii has. There really isn't a comparison to be made here, especially not one to Smash Bros. Nintendo is making sure that the game is playable on all controls. They have worked with various people, to make sure that it doesn't suck to play, and, has customizable controls, for all forms of controller. Wiimote, Wavebird, and CC, are all going to play like they should, and not like some half-assed attempt, with tag a long motion controls, for the hell of it.

 

[VerTiGo]

Seems fair. They should have made the game actually play worth a damn, on the wiimote, since...you know, thats what everyone that bought a wii has. There really isn't a comparison to be made here, especially not one to Smash Bros. Nintendo is making sure that the game is playable on all controls. They have worked with various people, to make sure that it doesn't suck to play, and, has customizable controls, for all forms of controller. Wiimote, Wavebird, and CC, are all going to play like they should, and not like some half-assed attempt, with tag a long motion controls, for the hell of it.

Guity Gear in particular is niche fighting series. A 2D fighter, something that only really appeals to the hardcore, if not an even more hardcore "hardcore" gaming crowd, which is unfortunately very slim in appeal. To those consumers, the ones who will buy the game, they will play the game the way its best played in which the depth of the game can be appreciated. Accent Core is my favorite game in the series to date.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

This is not the case, for what it's worth, with games like Samba de Amigo for Dreamcast or Guitar Hero for PS2 -- games that are, firstly, not ports; and secondly, do not have broken and unplayable modes involved but are in fact strictly designed for those extra controllers.

Samba didn't require the maracas, but pad control wasn't broken, either.

I agree with your point.

This is what I was thinking. Assuming the best way to play Brawl will be still with the GC controller (which of course comes separately), are they going to rate the game lower because you have to pay extra for the best control scheme? Probably not.

There's no reason Smash should map as horribly to the wiimote/nunchuk as this game does.

 

[FieryBalrog]

Joust, there's going to be a thread like this for every moderately hyped game on any system that gets a low score.

Dude, we have two threads full of whining that are about Donkey Kong Barrel Blast and a table tennis port from the 360.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

So it plays well with the CC then?

 

[MisterHero]

So it plays well with the CC then?

The best option there.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

The best option there.

Well that's alright then.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

One thing about this gen" All the D-Pad options suck ass so far. The Classic Controller is only a touch better than the unfixed 360's. PS3 better than both... which is sad.

 

[Narag]

i told you, N needs to packin CC controller in the future... its the truth.
I wonder if that will come next year.

I agree here.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

as a fairly long time guilty gear fan (got into it in ggxx original), it's pretty annoying seeing these wii-only people being all like "i'm a hardcore wii owner, and to PROVE my wii-hardcore-edness, THIS game will be a game i buy and enjoy and PROVE that wii is for hardcore gamers!" when it's pretty obvious these people weren't really into guilty gear before this (otherwise it makes sense to me that they would just get it for ps2 and use their stick just like with all the guilty gear games they've been playing). i have a wii, but i've been playing ggxx:ac import on ps2 and have no reason to get it for wii.

I own every version of a GG game released so far (including the DC one and that bullshit crap that was a DS game) and I started with the series back on the PS. I still bought the game for Wii because 1. It supports widescreen which the PS2 version doesn't, 2. I own both an Arcade stick that works on PS2, GC, and Xbox and there for works on the wii, and a CC.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I own every version of a GG game released so far (including the DC one and that bullshit crap that was a DS game) and I started with the series back on the PS. I still bought the game for Wii because 1. It supports widescreen which the PS2 version doesn't, 2. I own both an Arcade stick that works on PS2, GC, and Xbox and there for works on the wii, and a CC.

I thought both supported widescreen and 480p... Which is right?

 

[Glass Joe]

That's a score I disagree with. They should give it the 8.5 they say the game deserves, and in the review text point out how essential the classic controller is.

If not, then they need to go through their older reviews if they're going by this system.

Zelda Wii? Zero out of 10. It's unplayable without an add on controller (the $20 nunchuck). Guilty Gear? It's nearly unplayable without an add on controller (the $20 c.c.).

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Zelda Wii? Zero out of 10. It's unplayable without an add on controller (the $20 nunchuck).

The system comes with a nunchuk.

 

[BlackTyrano]

So they chose the score based on a just-for-fun addition to the game rather than the control mode the game was intended to use. Oh well, just proves that reviews are useless. It's not like I cared about any big-name site's fighting game opinions in the first place.

 

[Count Dookkake]

I haven't played a "new" 2-D fighter in a very long time. Why is this series good or of note? I have a CC and am planning on getting a Hori stick, so wonky waggle implementation is not a concern.

 

[Hours Left]

While I agree that some points should be docked for a poor control scheme, I think it's unfair to have the entire gameplay score judged solely on that one option, considering it's only one of multiple schemes.

Regardless if you need to buy an additional controller or not, all the control methods should be factored into the score. A fair reviewer would take all aspects of the game into account, not just the one that he or she deems will be the most used.

You wouldn't judge other games that often use various specialty controllers like that, so why this one? Because Aksys didn't bundle a controller with the game? That's not very feasible for a small upcoming company, especially when there is already two highly accessible options already on the market.

I think this sets a bad precedence for future Wii reviews on IGN, at least for this particular reviewer. Are all games going to be held to this standard? If you're going to take this stance, you should be consistant to retain your credibility.

What upsets me about this is that Guilty Gear is a great series. And to people who rely solely on review scores to dictate their purchases (a poor way to operate IMO, but many people do), they are going to breeze right by the context of the review and judge the game based only on an arbitrary number.

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

I mean I'm sure they took out a few points for the game coming out later and being more expensive with the only addition being something that sets the game back a little.

 

[jarrod]

with the only addition being something that sets the game back a little.

Outside the waggle control options, the Wii version offers a few other (small) additions...

+ widescreen mode
+ more stuff unlocked at outset
+ slightly better audio (unsure on this one)


... both US versions have the bug-fixes from the JP Wii version thankfully (and the memory wipe bug from both JP versions was fixed too). Both versions are also slightly censored too with blood being removed from what I understand (in both JP and US releases).

 

[Kintaro]

You wouldn't judge other games that often use various specialty controllers like that, so why this one? Because Aksys didn't bundle a controller with the game? That's not very feasible for a small upcoming company, especially when there is already two highly accessible options already on the market.

Tough shit. It's the Wii. The default control scheme of the system is the Wiimote + Nunchuck. If your game does NOT play well with that, it should be docked. If it comes with it's own controller, the game is judged by that. Period. You cannot score it based on an additional purchase you have to make outside of the game. That's all there is to it. Not everyone has the Classic Controller nor can you say that everyone should have to buy it. It's pretty easy to understand. Besides, the review said add 3 points if you're using the CC, so buck up there.

Or does the Wii now need two seperate review scores? "Score with Default Controls" "Score with CC"

 

[jmdajr]

WII IS ON A ROLL

 

[BlackTyrano]

Console wars bullshit fucks up good developers, part 2

 

[jarrod]

Tough shit. It's the Wii. The default control scheme of the system is the Wiimote + Nunchuck. If your game does NOT play well with that, it should be docked. If it comes with it's own controller, the game is judged by that. Period. You cannot score it based on an additional purchase you have to make outside of the game. That's all there is to it.

And once again, IGN didn't hold games like House of the Dead II, Sega Superstars, Dino Stalker or Steel Batallion: Line of Contact to this standard... so why hold the Wii release of GGXAC to it?

 

[jmdajr]

And once again, IGN didn't hold games like House of the Dead II, Sega Superstars, Dino Stalker or Steel Batallion: Line of Contact to this standard... so why hold the Wii release of GGXAC to it?

Fair enough I suppose.

( I don't think you could buy steel battalion without the controller.)

 

[jarrod]

( I don't think you could buy steel battalion without the controller.)

Steel Batallion no, but LOC was it's (semi)sequel... and it was only sold sans crazy $200 controller iirc.

 

[jmdajr]

Steel Batallion no, but LOC was it's (semi)sequel... and it was only sold sans crazy $200 controller iirc.

ahhh, I see.

well who knows.

Overall, I say guilty gear works far better with the ps2 controller anway.
I cant see the wavebird being good for this type of game. The layout just
doesn't work very well.

random:
how MS approved that d-pad on the 360 controller is beyond me.

 

[Alcibiades]

You cannot score it based on an additional purchase you have to make outside of the game.

I wonder Halo 3's scores would look like if they judged it based on what is packed with the 360:

System + 1 controller + XBox Live Silver


Since multiplayer requires you to buy an extra accessory not packed in with the system (and you shouldn't assume people have bought something extra that would enhance the titles they play) and online play requires you to spend additional money on a subscription, I'd say IGN should reconsider their score.

 

[jarrod]

ahhh, I see.

well who knows.

Overall, I say guilty gear works far better with the ps2 controller anway.
I cant see the wavebird being good for this type of game. The layout just
doesn't work very well.

random:
how MS approved that d-pad on the 360 controller is beyond me.

Well, agreed there... I actually prefer the DS2 d-pad to the CC, even if it's slightly smaller.

And yeah, the 360 d-pad is awful, SotN/SF2T/SPF2T are borderline unplayable with it imo. Then again, I haven't been totally happy with a console d-pad since the Saturn. :/

 

[Talamius]

And once again, IGN didn't hold games like House of the Dead II, Sega Superstars, Dino Stalker or Steel Batallion: Line of Contact to this standard... so why hold the Wii release of GGXAC to it?

A very good point. Dreamcast had the definitive versions of Marvel vs Capcom 2, Capcom vs SNK 2 and SF3: 3rd Strike for a long time. All of which are completely unplayable with the Dreamcast pad.

I wonder if eventually Nintendo will tell the hardcore gaming media to piss off. They're highly successful even with the consistently crappy review scores, so why should Big N cater to them at all? Which would you rather be getting publicity from: bad pub from IGN/Gamespot or great pub from USA Today/CNN?

 

[Unison]

I wonder if eventually Nintendo will tell the hardcore gaming media to piss off. They're highly successful even with the consistently crappy review scores, so why should Big N cater to them at all? Which would you rather be getting publicity from: bad pub from IGN/Gamespot or great pub from USA Today/CNN?

Oh, I am pretty sure that this has been happening for a few years, at least. Nintendo has been giving exclusives to major media outlets, while letting hardcore game websites pick up the scraps. They've targeted their trade show appearances toward the mass media, ignoring the needs of hardcore outlets.

The first such example that comes to mind was giving the exclusive reveal of the DS hardware to USA Today.

This probably explains at least some of the animosity that seems to exist between hardcore sites and Nintendo.

 

[VerTiGo]

The hardcore gaming media has been trained to perceive and critique games in a certain way thus when something radically different comes out it's not strange to see it receive tons of backlash, but then you see that it's going over well with consumers who seem to be enjoying the product. For instance, music critics panned Black Sabbath when they first hit the scene but they're easily one of the most revolutionary and most influential bands in history. The criticism of the vast majority changes with each generation.

 

[JJConrad]

The score is a joke. The CC is a standard accessory to the Wii that is both highly availible and widely used. There is no reason to dock points because it needs an accessory. Would anyone expect a game to get docked if it required any of the following:

multiple controllers
harddrives
memory cards
modems/online accounts
DLC
dance pads/ instruments
headsets
lightguns

IGN's proper responce should have been to rate the game based on all of the availible control methods and then stressed the need for the CC.

 

[Jammy]

Why don't people have a Classic Controller yet? The Virtual Console is churning out at least a couple instant-purchase worthy games each month. The controller is only $20 and it has hands-down the best symmetry and D-Pad going for it out of all the controllers out there.

 

[Gigglepoo]

People who are complaining in this thread clearly put more emphasis on review scores than review text.

 

[Of All Trades]

Steel Batallion no, but LOC was it's (semi)sequel... and it was only sold sans crazy $200 controller iirc.

LoC required the controller because it was an online add-on, not a sequel. The IGN review even specifically states that you have to own SB, and says the total cost is $250 as a result.

The IGN review of HotD2 specifically states that the game is shit without the gun, and it's not like dc.ign was a particularly balanced website. But hey, if I go back 8-9 years for reviews from people who I don't think even work at IGN any more, I'm sure I can find examples of shoddy reviews.

The IGN review of Dino Stalker has a score of 4.0; I'm not even sure if the game can be played without the guncon. But yeah, IGN sure was giving Dino Stalker a pass with that 4.0, and I'm sure if they docked it two more points it would have made all the difference in the world.

The IGN review of Sega Superstars is a "glowing" 7.0, and the game requires the eyetoy and even says so on the box.

Any other examples you'd like to share, or do you need to be further embarassed?

 

[RavenFox]

You gave the score away! Why did you spoiler it then?

Actually I heard Guilty Gear's controls for the Wii were really goddamn awful. It doesn't really matter if you have a Classic Controller, but there are some poor souls out there who can only go at it via the Wiimote, so I guess the review is just for them. Maybe they should've put the disclaimer "Add three points if you own a Classic Controller" or somesuch thing.

lol

 

[jarrod]

LoC required the controller because it was an online add-on, not a sequel. The IGN review even specifically states that you have to own SB, and says the total cost is $250 as a result.

The IGN review of HotD2 specifically states that the game is shit without the gun, and it's not like dc.ign was a particularly balanced website. But hey, if I go back 8-9 years for reviews from people who I don't think even work at IGN any more, I'm sure I can find examples of shoddy reviews.

The IGN review of Dino Stalker has a score of 4.0; I'm not even sure if the game can be played without the guncon. But yeah, IGN sure was giving Dino Stalker a pass with that 4.0, and I'm sure if they docked it two more points it would have made all the difference in the world.

The IGN review of Sega Superstars is a "glowing" 7.0, and the game requires the eyetoy and even says so on the box.

Any other examples you'd like to share, or do you need to be further embarassed?

Nitpick all you like, doesn't change the fact this is the first time IGN's docked points for a control scheme that necessitates an additional hardware purchase. They're holding this game to a different standard than any other game they've ever reviewed, even those with similar circumstances... if anything's embarrassing, it's your vast diversity of grasping excuses here.

Also, Line of Contact was adding all new content, it's not simply an online append disc.

 

[Of All Trades]

I wonder Halo 3's scores would look like if they judged it based on what is packed with the 360:

System + 1 controller + XBox Live Silver


Since multiplayer requires you to buy an extra accessory not packed in with the system (and you shouldn't assume people have bought something extra that would enhance the titles they play) and online play requires you to spend additional money on a subscription, I'd say IGN should reconsider their score.

What accessory is missing for Halo 3? Hell, it even comes with a 48-hour XBL gold trial card.

Seriously, you fools need to realize that all your "counter-examples" are products that have at least one SKU which includes the accessory required for the score given. If there was a SKU of GG that included the CC, then that would be the "default" package, with the non-controller version being the one for existing CC owners.

 

[jarrod]

Seriously, you fools need to realize that all your "counter-examples" are products that have at least one SKU which includes the accessory required for the score given.

Well, except all the ones I've been listing. :lol

 

[Scrubking]

Nitpick all you like, doesn't change the fact this is the first time IGN's docked points for a control scheme that necessitates an additional hardware purchase. They're holding this game to a different standard than any other game they've ever reviewed, even those with similar circumstances... if anything's embarrassing, it's your vast diversity of grasping excuses here.

Also, Line of Contact was adding all new content, it's not simply an online append disc.

QFT

 

[jarrod]

And if HOTD2 is a bit too old for you... well, I guess we could use HotD3 as a more recent counter-example. :lol

 

[Auron_Kale]

I was playing this game over the weekend using the nunchuk/wiimote (I was playing at Gamestop & didn't have access to my classic controller) and then I found myself playing GGXX on my ps2 and strangely found myself being able to perform moves & combos on the wiimote just as well as on the dualshock.

Sure the wiimote controls made it feel like I was going to have carpel tunnel after a few rounds (seems that 3 is my max. with waggle), but it wasn't too bad. Haven't tested the game out with CC controls yet, but I'm sure they'll probably be better than the wiimote option only.

 

[Of All Trades]

Nitpick all you like, doesn't change the fact this is the first time IGN's docked points for a control scheme that necessitates an additional hardware purchase. They're holding this game to a different standard than any other game they've ever reviewed, even those with similar circumstances... if anything's embarrassing, it's your vast diversity of grasping excuses here.

Bullshit. Ignoring the fact that you're acting like a fucking baby over a number (rather than review text), every example you've provided is specifically designed to work with hardware that is packaged in at least one SKU, with HotD being the only exception and, again, it's a fucking dc.ign (masters of impartiality that they were) review from over eight fucking years ago.

Also, Line of Contact was adding all new content, not simply an online append disc.

All new content for online play. There was no single player content for LoC.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Someone's got a chip on his shoulder about DC IGN. Turn you down for a job or something?

 

[Of All Trades]

Well, except all the ones I've been listing. :lol

Do you really think games that require an accessory to be played at all should be docked for standalone versions?

Really?

And if HOTD2 is a bit too old for you... well, I guess we could use HotD3 as a more recent counter-example.

You mean the HotD3 IGN review where they specifically state that playing with the controller is just as good as the light gun?

Do you even read reviews or do you just see a score and make up the content in your head?

 

[Unison]

Bullshit. Ignoring the fact that you're acting like a fucking baby over a number (rather than review text), every example you've provided is specifically designed to work with hardware that is packaged in at least one SKU, with HotD being the only exception and, again, it's a fucking dc.ign (masters of impartiality that they were) review from over eight fucking years ago.

Plenty of Virtual Console games require an additional controller purchase that isn't bundled with the game (obviously), but the games aren't docked in any way.

Why should Guilty Gear be judged differently than those?

 

[jarrod]

Bullshit. Ignoring the fact that you're acting like a fucking baby over a number (rather than review text), every example you've provided is specifically designed to work with hardware that is packaged in at least one SKU, with HotD being the only exception and, again, it's a fucking dc.ign (masters of impartiality that they were) review from over eight fucking years ago.

Again... there's also HotD3, which came packaged all by it's lonesome and didn't even see a SEGA released accessory in the states. Or Sega Superstars (no EyeToy SKU), Dino Stalker/RE Dead Aim (no Guncon SKU), PSO (no Keyboard SKU on any platform)... the only real bullshit here is your ineffectual, inaccurate whining to the contrary.

All new content for online play. There was no single player content for LoC.

Regardless, it never came bundled with that needed controller. You also didn't need to orginal SB to play it, so at worst it was an upgraded rerelease (a la SF2T or something) rather than any sort of append or upgrade disc.

 

[Of All Trades]

Someone's got a chip on his shoulder about DC IGN. Turn you down for a job or something?

lol. Hell, I'm pretty sure IGN staff apologized for dc.ign reviews after the DC died.

 

[Kintaro]

Plenty of Virtual Console games require an additional controller purchase that isn't bundled with the game (obviously), but the games aren't docked in any way.

Why should Guilty Gear be judged differently than those?

:lol This is a joke right?

 

[Of All Trades]

Plenty of Virtual Console games require an additional controller purchase that isn't bundled with the game (obviously), but the games aren't docked in any way.

Why should Guilty Gear be judged differently than those?

The VC tells you what controllers you need before you buy the game.0

Again... there's also HotD3, which came packaged all by it's lonesome and didn't even see a SEGA released accessory in the states. Or Sega Superstars (no EyeToy SKU), Dino Stalker/RE Dead Aim (no Guncon SKU), PSO (no Keyboard SKU on any platform)... the only real bullshit here is your ineffectual, inaccurate whining to the contrary.

So you're saying that games which can be turned on but not played in any way because they require an accessory should be docked, even if the box says "requires <accessory>?

Regardless, it never came bundled with that needed controller. You also didn't need to orginal SB to play it, so at worst it was an upgraded rerelease (a la SF2T or something) rather than any sort of append or upgrade disc.

So you're saying that I can play LoC (actual gameplay) without the SB controller? Really?