Support NeoGAF

[Miles Quaritch]

Good on MS for being accommodating and allowing Insomniac to keep the IP and support their vision.

Would be great if that extended to indies and the parity clause.

 

[TheUnsunghero26]

The fact that its available only on digital standalone could still be something to do with Microsofts deal for the original? Not that it matters 7 years later, admittedly.

No one seems to know what exactly happened with Mass Effect. We know Microsoft still had the publishing rights for ME1 even after EA bought Bioware, but we don't know know how EA got them back. I'd assume they either expired or EA bought them.

 

[SniperHunter]

Ratchets needs to die or be rebooted. The formula got old

 

[Acrylic7]

Sure, what the fuck does Insomniac actually know about the negotiations they were in, huh? There's no way anyone wanted to keep that IP. Oh, wait...

I read the OP and what I was saying is what publishers were lining up to snatch Sunset Overdrive from them? Money was a key figure in this deal.
I just dont see anyone not being able to make a deal because they just had to own Sunset Overdrive. Unless you were negotiating with a robot there was just no way.

Or maybe money wasn't the big deal, maybe MS just had the better deal of everyone else which is pretty much money related.

Even if you had a sure hit on your hands wouldn't a publisher want to do business with you even though they couldn't persuade you to sell the IP? Unless you had your back against the wall and they knew you couldn't go anywhere else then then that's another case but come on.

 

[Bsigg12]

Yeah, I have it myself. Didn't want to buy the collection, as I already have the sequels, and the digi-version was cheaper.

That makes sense.

The fact that its available only on digital standalone could still be something to do with Microsofts deal for the original? Not that it matters 7 years later, admittedly.

Probably, it must be standalone physical copies are only allowed to be published by Microsoft? Who knows though.

 

[markom58]

Microsoft #4TheDevelopers

 

[Steverulez]

Microsoft #4TheDevelopers

I dont think some indie developers would agree with that

 

[Beer Monkey]

Even with the buyout Microsoft was able to keep Mass Effect 2 console exclusive for a year after it shipped on 360. And it took five years to bring ME1 to PS3.

Anybody expecting to see a Sunset Overdrive game on a competing console within four years of now, if ever, is likely to be very disappointed.

 

[mreddie]

Microsoft #4TheDevelopers

Maybe but Indie developers tell a different story.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Microsoft #4TheBigNameDevelopers

fixed

 

[PsihoPerihelion]

Good to see them having the deal they really wanted.

So is there a clause, that Sony insists they won't publish a game unless they own the IP?

Is that a thing?

I think they do as even games they haven't fund are under their ownership. I think Heavy Rain is a good example. The game was suppossed to be on PC but then Sony went to publish the game and to own the IP, so now you have it only on PS3.

 

[Adry9]

Sadly that has never been an accurate measure of success.

Neogaf. Believe.

After reading the final hours of Titanfall it's clear that Titanfall, even as fun as it is, is a shell of the game that was originally intended/could have been.
SO seems to have had a much smoother dev cycle..

I think the problem with Titanfall is the lack of content. More game modes, maps & weapons and it would've an amazing shooter to spend a lot of hours in.

Have you seen Titanfall?

Long time without reding that one hahah

I doubt it will create much more than a small spike, if any. Gaming forums don't speak for the general population and you know that.

Yes, but I also haven't seen the general population getting and Xbox One to play Titanfall, have in mind that it was released on PC and 360 too. I don't think it's going to make millions, I just think it's going to make more people buy an Xbox One than Titanfall did.

Its definitely the best game I have seen for X1 or any of the next gen consoles so far. Well that has been revealed anyway

Totally. And to be honest after seeing the first trailer during last years E3 I wasn't even interested.

 

[abadguy]

MS took a chance on a crazy pitch and it looks like it could pay off for them.

Hopefully it does, game looks fun as hell and i love the art direction. I want to see more like it, as well as a sequel. It helps to dull the pain of knowing there will never be a true sequel to Jet Set Radio.( RIP Smilebit) Hopefully the games soundtrack is as good as it's art direction.

 

[LiquidSolid]

So is there a clause, that Sony insists they won't publish a game unless they own the IP?

Is that a thing?

It's not a clause, it's a policy. They spent a shitload of money building up Crash and Spyro into huge franchises before Universal ditched them, so they don't want it to happen again. Every game Sony publishes is owned by them, whether it's Heavy Rain, Demon's Souls, Ratchet & Clank, Journey, Rime or Everybody's Gone to the Rapture.

 

[Nightengale]

But MS don't have that same clause?

Obviously MS would rather own them as well, but it's clearly not a dealbreaker for MS compared to Sony.

MS is willing to forego ip ownership on a case by,case basis. Sony won't.

 

[Kaako]

I see a hungry dev team with their backs against the wall. That is a good thing in Insomniac's case.

 

[pixlexic]

Hopefully it does, game looks fun as hell and i love the art direction. I want to see more like it, as well as a sequel. It helps to dull the pain of knowing there will never be a true sequel to Jet Set Radio.( RIP Smilebit) Hopefully the games soundtrack is as good as it's art direction.

this game does have that dreamcast era vibe to it graphically. bright colors, Xtreme theme.

 

[Hockeymac18]

Maybe but Indie developers tell a different story.

Yea, but outside of the parity clause (which I hope they drop or at least re-work sometime soon), MS doesn't treat indies that badly. Self-publishing is allowed, and if you join the ID@Xbox program they give you a few dev kits. And they offer Unity for free for developers in the program (That's pretty cool).

this game does have that dreamcast era vibe to it graphically. bright colors, Xtreme theme.

Yea, I'm really liking that, too.

 

[VanWinkle]

I can understand both sides pretty easily.

The publisher doesn't want the developer to flee into the sunset once they get successful, but the developer doesn't want to be beholden to the publisher if the publisher loses interest.

Sometimes you can give an IP to a new team and have a lot of success there, especially if the developer blew up for reasons beyond the publisher's control, but the developer owning the IP also encourages the publisher to try and serve the developer as best as possible in keeping the series strong.

Definitely. I get why Sony wants to keep it, and I get why Insomniac wants to keep it. It's just unfortunate that Sony doesn't seem to have any leniency whatsoever with their policy, when Insomniac does (evidenced by making the Resistance and R&C games, including a new R&C just very recently).

 

[Omnistalgic]

It's amazing that Sunset Overdrive is goint to sell more Xbox Ones than Titanfall, who would've guessed.

Really now? Gaf is not as indication of sales and the game looks somewhat generic IMO...

Game can go either way...

Also think Sony should have just given them a pass on the ip because of the long history..

 

[coldfoot]

It's amazing that Sunset Overdrive is goint to sell more Xbox Ones than Titanfall, who would've guessed.

You should know better than that. GAF reception of a game has no correlation to its success or sales.
I might buy one, some posters here might buy one for it, but overall it's not the kind of exclusive that drives sales.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Really now? Gaf is not as indication of sales and the game looks somewhat generic IMO...

Game can go either way...

Also think Sony should have just given them a pass on the ip because of the long history..

Insomniac know very well why Sony does it though. It effected Insomniac too which is why they want to hold on to stuff themselves as well. Spyro is swimming in money now, Sony fluffed up Crash and watched other companies capitalize on their marketing by taking it for themselves. Look at Titan Fall, Microsoft buffed that thing up like a beast and now it will likely profit EA the most and help PS4 out.

For sony it's still probably better to fund their own projects like a possible Project Beast, and give Ready At Dawn that support for The Order. Microsoft usually work with 3rd party to make a lot of their exlusive deals. Lately they have been having 1st party building goals though.

 

[artist]

It's amazing that Sunset Overdrive is goint to sell more Xbox Ones than Titanfall, who would've guessed.

Time to add SO to the chalkboard, yes?

 

[Raist]

Sony probably wanted to keep the IP. Really unfortunate, as I would love to play the game.

I don't think the alternative was Sony.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

So Sony likely wanted the IP while Microsoft said go nuts. While Insomniac owns the IP, does this mean they'll pull a ME2 or DR2 and it'll jump to the PS4/PC?

That's what I'm personally hoping.

I would hate to miss out on this game.

What exactly was holding Insomniac back at Sony? Were they working under tight creative constraints?

I see Sunset Overdrive(and Insomniac) like that pretty girl that got trashed in a bad relationship and then breaks up to get a rockin' new make-over and go raving with her new hot friends.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I read the OP and what I was saying is what publishers were lining up to snatch Sunset Overdrive from them? Money was a key figure in this deal.
I just dont see anyone not being able to make a deal because they just had to own Sunset Overdrive. Unless you were negotiating with a robot there was just no way.

Or maybe money wasn't the big deal, maybe MS just had the better deal of everyone else which is pretty much money related.

Even if you had a sure hit on your hands wouldn't a publisher want to do business with you even though they couldn't persuade you to sell the IP? Unless you had your back against the wall and they knew you couldn't go anywhere else then then that's another case but come on.

I don't know how much clearer Insomniac can make this. Owning the IP was important to them. So important that it clearly was a roadblock to going with certain publishers.

Read between the lines, and it's clear Sony had a shot at this, but balked at their nonownership of the IP in the deal. I'm not sure why this seems totally unreasonable to you. They didn't want to publish this big AAA title if they couldn't get some ownership of the IP. Microsoft, on the otherhand, has done these types of deals before (ME1, Gears, etc.).

 

[Killing_Joke]

I can see why MS isn't interested in owning IP's. But i wonder how many millions they had to pay to have Gears exclusive 3 times and buy the IP from them. I assume Sony can't afford to run business that way. Hopefully MS won't mind them porting it to PC.

 

[TheYanger]

As I'm not especially looking to own either system in the near future I hadn't even seen anything about SO before today, and I have to say, game looks like an absolute blast and a fantastic idea. Console wars be damned, looks like a really fun game and whether it pans out for MS or not to publish, I'm glad it's getting made so kudos to both studio and publisher.

 

[TropicanaTwista]

It's amazing that Sunset Overdrive is goint to sell more Xbox Ones than Titanfall, who would've guessed.

Highly highly doubt that. Its gonna be tough to cater this to the "dudebros" like a game like titanfall can. I also doubt this game will be marketed like titanfall.

Nothing against the game though, it looks fun.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Also it's not like Sony don't consult with Insomniac when it comes to IPs Insomniac developed. It seem like Sony value the creators on using their stuff. Insomniac seems very involved with the Ratchet movie for example, and may have even been asked if they were ok with a R&C movie being made.

Playstation All-Stars development seem to shine light on how Sony IPs are't at their fingertips since a developer that created the IP can say what the IP can and can't be used for, and how it can be used. Insomniac themselves seem pleased with the relationship with Sony.

That said Insomniac, like Sony, need and wants to build a portfolio of IPs. They can make you a great deal of money.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

Insominiac owns the IP? guess i'll wait for the PS4 or PC port

 

[Nightengale]

IP ownership is still a somewhat sensitive area in game publishing. I recall it being mentioned that every publisher except EA/THQ backed away from Respawn the moment they insisted on ownership of the Titanfall IP.

It's definitely an area of growing interest among independent developers, especially those with the capacity and capability to carve their own destiny. Thus we're seeing situations like Ryse, Destiny, Sunset Overdrive, Titanfall, etc, which are all IPs owned by the developer instead of the publisher.

Insominiac owns the IP? guess i'll wait for the PS4 port

Don't count on it. I expect the contract of SSO to have rights of first-refusal for sequels/ports, as well as an insanely long exclusivity period, if a period even exist.

Unless Sunset Overdrive bombs so hard that MS refuses to fund the sequel, then it may appear on PS4... though if MS refuses to fund it, I highly doubt EA Partners would, because that's probably the only publisher left who would fund another company's IP.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Insominiac owns the IP? guess i'll wait for the PS4 or PC port

Don't think out loud like this (well for a port).

I do wonder what they would do if they make a sequel though. Would Activision let them make it, Ubisoft? If they are in the sequel stage part one was successful and they won't be focus tested into the gray to look at Titan Fall for inspiration. Right?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Didn't EA shutdown the partners program earlier this year? Thought I read something about it not too long ago.

 

[Steverulez]

Insominiac owns the IP? guess i'll wait for the PS4 or PC port

You know port begging is frowned on right?

Also, Insomniac have referred to it numerous times on their twitter feed as "not a timed exclusive, its an exclusive exclusive"

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Didn't EA shutdown the partners program earlier this year? Thought I read something about it not too long ago.

Yes, I think FUSE was close to the last game in it.

Edit: or maybe they just scaled it back by a lot.

http://gamingeverything.com/ea-partners-program-not-dead/

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Yes, I think FUSE was close to the last game in it.

Nice to know I didn't imagine it. Seems everyone but MS (and maybe Ninty) is unwilling to fund/publish IPs they don't own.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Nice to know I didn't imagine it. Seems everyone but MS (and maybe Ninty) is unwilling to fund/publish IPs they don't own.

Would that strategy be cheaper long term than opening up a couple more studios ?

Looking at it from a developer standpoint it's certainly enticing when the rights remain as your own

 

[Nightengale]

Nice to know I didn't imagine it. Seems everyone but MS (and maybe Ninty) is unwilling to fund/publish IPs they don't own.

Well, with Titanfall's success, I hope EA keeps on doing it. Much as I dislike EA, that's a good thing they have going for them.

THQ used to do it, but well.. the less said, the better.

Ubisoft has done it too with Stick of Truth, but I don't think we can take that as a precedence of them doing more things like this, because that was a handover from THQ.

Would that strategy be cheaper long term than opening up a couple more studios ?

Looking at it from a developer standpoint it's certainly enticing when the rights remain as your own

Rationally speaking, there's no way that MS will give up too much leeway, especially if you are not a studio of certain caliber to be able to negotiate your IP rights.

For what it's worth, State of Decay, Quantum Break, etc are MS-owned IPs instead of developer-owned, so it's really a case-by-case basis, even for MS... It seems that it's really only the bigger studios that can put their foot on the ground for IP ownership.

 

[Steverulez]

Would that strategy be cheaper long term than opening up a couple more studios ?

Looking at it from a developer standpoint it's certainly enticing when the rights remain as your own

Phil Spencer previously said to IGN that when you take into consideration the royalties of the developer (if not own by Microsoft) the costs of working with an internal studio or external studio aren't that different.

I think they do it because it gives them a chance to work with some top developers on interesting games (DICE pre-EA, Lionhead pre-buyout, Bizarre, Epic, Insomniac, Bioware, Remedy, Crytek...)

Well, with Titanfall's success, I hope EA keeps on doing it. Much as I dislike EA, that's a good thing they have going for them.

THQ used to do it, but well.. the less said, the better.

Ubisoft has done it too with Stick of Truth, but I don't think we can take that as a precedence of them doing more things like this, because that was a handover from THQ.

Ubisoft did it with Free Radical and Haze....!

 

[The_Afroman]

Where is the money hat gif?

Wait wait. Wrong gif. Either way gets the point across.

I am on board for this game. UGH. those fluid movements and colors.. just totally... make me happy in my special parts.

 

[Fornaximus]

Sony does like them some IPs. I would think that Microsoft would too, though. Guess it was more important to have a developer like Insomniac on their stage. Lots of optical value, having such a Sony-familiar developer under their umbrella.

 

[RalchAC]

Sony does like them some IPs. I would think that Microsoft would too, though. Guess it was more important to have a developer like Insomniac on their stage. Lots of optical value, having such a Sony-familiar developer under their umbrella.

After what happened with Spyro and Crash after the PS1 era, I'm not really surprised that they demand IP ownership for Sony published games.

If I were them I'd be really cautious with that stuff.

Insomniac really seems a good fit for Microsoft. A game like Sunset Overdrive diversifies their exclusive output. It looks quite different than most stuff they have in their pockets and, to be honest, it looks awesome.

I only hope they don't stop working on Ratchet and Clank too

 

[Lemondish]

After what happened with Spyro and Crash after the PS1 era, I'm not really surprised that they demand IP ownership for Sony published games.

If I were them I'd be really cautious with that stuff.

Insomniac really seems a good fit for Microsoft. A game like Sunset Overdrive diversifies their exclusive output. It looks quite different than most stuff they have in their pockets and, to be honest, it looks awesome.

I only hope they don't stop working on Ratchet and Clank too

I don't understand this. This article seems to be implying that they initially intended to be multiplatform, right? That would mean they pitched to multiplatform publishers. After all, they went multiplat with Fuse, so why would they stop there? Approaching Sony wouldn't fit in with that plan so much.

The way the article reads, it wasn't until they were convinced by the Xbox vision that they decided to make it exclusive, and at that point they were likely swayed by the then erroneous belief that Microsoft would launch first with a better box and dominate Sony. Much like we believed was behind Titanfall's exclusivity.

Does that represent the situation better? I don't think this suggests that Sony wouldn't let them keep their IP. I honestly doubt they even approached Sony if they were never interested in being exclusive in the first place. I doubt Sony would turn them down over that.

 

[PanicFreak]

After what happened with Spyro and Crash after the PS1 era, I'm not really surprised that they demand IP ownership for Sony published games.

If I were them I'd be really cautious with that stuff.

Insomniac really seems a good fit for Microsoft. A game like Sunset Overdrive diversifies their exclusive output. It looks quite different than most stuff they have in their pockets and, to be honest, it looks awesome.

I only hope they don't stop working on Ratchet and Clank too

The only world where Insominac stops working on R&C is if they have a mega-hit elsewhere. If SO is huge, they will probably stop R&C dev similar to Chair and Shadow Complex.

 

[MikeE21286]

Very interested in the title

 

[Chuck]

I doubt they pitched it to EA...

 

[Nightengale]

Does that represent the situation better? I don't think this suggests that Sony wouldn't let them keep their IP. I honestly doubt they even approached Sony if they were never interested in being exclusive in the first place. I doubt Sony would turn them down over that.

Assuming they never approached Sony to begin with, the more realistic outlook is that they knew Sony wouldn't forfeit IP rights to them no matter what, so talking about it is useless from the get-go.

There's never ever been an instance post-Playstation 1 era where Sony has published/funded a title that they don't own the rights to. I don't think it's as simple as what you'd think. Sony lost rights to multi-million franchises because of those ers. That's why there's never any question, whenever Sony publishes a game, in that they own the IP, be it Heavy Rain, Hohokum or Rapture.

And though this might sound insulting to Insomniac, if Sony ever were to change their policies on that... it won't be Insomniac's game that convinces them of it.

 

[Lemondish]

Assuming they never approached Sony to begin with, the more realistic outlook is that they knew Sony wouldn't forfeit IP rights to them no matter what, so talking about it is useless from the get-go.

There's never ever been an instance post-Playstation 1 era where Sony has published/funded a title that they don't own the rights to. I don't think it's as simple as what you'd think. Sony lost rights to multi-million franchises because of those ers. That's why there's never any question, whenever Sony publishes a game, in that they own the IP, be it Heavy Rain, Hohokum or Rapture.

And though this might sound insulting to Insomniac, if Sony ever were to change their policies on that... it won't be Insomniac's game that convinces them of it.

That makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up.

I guess what we think we know about those early days of the two systems also plays a factor. It seemed to me that everyone thought Sony would be DOA against Microsoft's next Xbox which would release first and be more powerful. What would have been a fantastic coup de grace by Microsoft by bringing Insomniac on board has now, to me, seemingly turned into an uphill battle. Had Microsoft actually released first with a more powerful machine, having Insomniac's next game exclusively would have been an awesome move by Microsoft if only Sony would just follow through with doing nothing.

Sadly for them, that didn't happen. PS4 is the dominant machine on the market, not only in sales but in relative power. Those things combine to create the perfect storm that continues to elevate PS4 sales over Xbox One through word of mouth and the demand for the same system your friends have. Given this new reality, which few expected would happen, I think Insomniac cannot take full advantage of their traditional fanbase.

I've loved Insomniac since Ratchet & Clank on PS2. I quite enjoyed Resistance and even gave them the benefit of the doubt to try out Fuse (thankfully there was a demo). I would have followed them into Sunset Overdrive. I can't now. Those reasons that would have convinced me to do so now no longer exist and have all dried up when Microsoft released a more expensive, less powerful console with a myriad of bad ideas surrounding how it treated consumers.

 

[Traumnovelle]

...