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[AstroLad]

Hardcore-gamers elitism is destroying videogaming.

To be fair, neither hate of casual gamers nor casual gamers themselves are actually destroying gaming. Both "issues" simply exist to make GAF that much more fun.

 

[Leonsito]

To be fair, neither hate of casual gamers nor casual gamers themselves are actually destroying gaming. Both "issues" simply exist to make GAF that much more fun.

Yeah, I was being dramatic, this gen is only destroying my wallet. But is ridiculous the amount of shit some type of games and gamers get on this forum.

 

[mentalfloss]

Hardcore-gamers elitism is destroying videogaming.

I once had a dog and his name was BINGO.

 

[Cipherr]

I agree with the part of the article that bashes the system I don't like, and I disagree with the part that bashes the game and console represented in my avatar.


Also why cant you ignore people by clicking on their name. Theres an option to add the person to your buddy list but no option to ignore?

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I agree with the part of the article that bashes the system I don't like, and I disagree with the part that bashes the game and console represented in my avatar.


Also why cant you ignore people by clicking on their name. Theres an option to add the person to your buddy list but no option to ignore?

You can do it from their profile page.

*shrug*

 

[Mr.City]

And this is why IGN is not known for their features.

 

[Esch]

terrible article, but nothing so awful that it should result in a sites banning. thankfully the ban didn't take.

This. I mean obviously it was stupid, but it's a fucking opinion piece, it should be taken with a large grain of salt. Plus it's IGN AU, and they tend to fall off the back of the bus all the time anyway. I don't see why this merits a banning of what is occasionally a pretty good site.

 

[TheGreatDave]

When is IGN ever good?

At least Gamespot is useful around E3 time.

 

[Esch]

When is IGN ever good?

At least Gamespot is useful around E3 time.

They get their hands on a lot of previews before other sites and such a great deal of the time, same with videos. I like that they write a lot in their reviews and previews for certain titles, but that's just me. I don't see what's so bad about the site overall. It has a lot of employees, and like any company or publication or whatever, some of them suck at life and their jobs. But IGN didn't get to be the biggest gaming journalism site on the web by collecting bottle caps, did they?

 

[bryehn]

Holy shit

 

[Sol..]

Hardcore-gamers elitism is destroying videogaming.

i simply cannot express with words how much i agree.






I agree.

 

[M3Freak]

So now IGN is unbanned?

 

[Vinci]

So now IGN is unbanned?

Aww. No fun. At least let it run a month or so.

 

[Egg Shen]

It's not the worst thing that I've seen on IGN, it makes certain interesting observations, but it makes a lot of uncomfortable assumptions. I'm not going to do a point by point analysis on why the list is full of epic fail, but the ones that I found amazingly short sighted were:

2) Unreal Engine Overdose

Using third-party engines as a development platform is not new. The fact that UE3 is currently the preferred technology for a number of developers is merely the latest trend in requiring a middleware solution driven by specific needs that it apparently fulfills. But the article cuts the knees out of its argument that it is a significant blame factor by the time it hits the second sentence, noting that "in the right hands" it can "make games sing".

The point can be made for ANY technology. Instead, the author wants to position the platform as the problem with his choice of titles.

UE3 isn't a trend that is destroying gaming. Poor game design built around it is.

9. STRONG FEMALE LEAD CHARACTER = EDGY, CLEVER AND DESIRABLE

The fact that certain developers choose to give their female leads the kind of sexuality that has always been shoved down the throats of both genders by advertising and entertainment media is not surprising. That it should suddenly be seen as a trend destroying gaming is. I guess I missed the part where the Boss decided to seduce Snake in the final battle as her "special move", or where Aika's breasts saved the day, stealing Vyse's thunder until later that night.

In his own example, calling the inclusion of Faith as pandering to the Asian American market trivializes DICE's vision for Mirror's Edge. The rest of the title's unique design bears their approach out.

The implication that a female lead's desirability rests solely on their physical assets as opposed to being "edgy and clever (smart)" is as ignorant as it can probably get, especially after lumping The Boss (MGS), April and Zoe (The Longest Journey, Dreamfall respectively) and longstanding characters such as Jill (Resident Evil) alongside Bloodrayne. And is a strong, female character cliched because Western developers are attempting to introduce an approach that Eastern devs have often long used as a strength in many of their titles, or because their efforts are being lumped by narrow minded marketers as a part of pop media with no hope of escape?

Many developers are already responsible for creating memorable female characters in strong roles on both sides of the world. We have long seen the same trends in film with Mira Sorvino in "The Replacement Killers", the ever iconic Signourney Weaver as Ripley, Joan Allen as Pamela Landy from the Bourne films, or Jodie Foster in "Inside Man". Should developers seeking the same be thrown into the same boat as those that pander to the most obvious demographic with tits and ass?

No, they shouldn't. Strong female characters shouldn't even be an argument or a category of their own. They should simply be good characters.

 

[Shiggie]

:lol :lol :lol
Tears, Tears oh god.

 

[Spire]

Hardcore-gamers elitism is destroying videogaming.

If this were true, gaming would have died in the late 80's. Gamer elitist assholes aren't any worse today than they were back then, in fact they were worse back then. Having some prick hog the SFII arcade machine and never let you play is a lot worse than some goon posting rants on an obscure internet forum.

 

[Vinci]

If this were true, gaming would have died in the late 80's. Gamer elitist assholes aren't any worse today than they were back then, in fact they were worse back then. Having some prick hog the SFII arcade machine and never let you play is a lot worse than some goon posting rants on an obscure internet forum.

Honestly, I think there's more of them now. Or at least more people identifying themselves as such. Perhaps not. I think the biggest problem isn't so much hardcore gamers but massive technophiles deciding to ride console rather than PC where it makes more sense.

 

[Bizzyb]

number 6 and 7 are flat out retarded

Mario Kart Wii has really good motion controls with the Wii Wheel. Sure it may not be as "tight" as a control stick but it works! and that's all that matters.

and Rainbow Dentist?? WTF is that? Mario and Sonic at the olympics was/is a good game and great as a party game.

Oh it was ok when Sonic was in Smash Bros Brawl but when he teams up with Mario in the Olympics it's a bad idea? Give me a fucking break.

EDIT: and number 9 comes off as fucking sexist. This is some disgraceful shit. I can't believe this actually got published

 

[Davey Cakes]

Honestly, I think there's more of them now. Or at least more people identifying themselves as such. Perhaps not. I think the biggest problem isn't so much hardcore gamers but massive technophiles deciding to ride console rather than PC where it makes more sense.

No, there's quite a bit more people identifying themselves as hardcore gamers these days.

Hell, back then the splitting of the gaming audience wasn't anything like it was today. You had crazy game-addicted maniacs, and you had everyone else.

The thing is, these "crazy game-addicted maniacs" didn't mind when "everyone else" played games. This is why arcades and NES systems both had their place. There was harmony. Nowadays, you have the hardcore gamers and everyone else (where "everyone else" now includes "casual gamers") and the hardcore don't want everyone else even near their hobby.

 

[LCfiner]

Oh well, I guess it couldn't last.

I never actually go to IGN for news so I wasn't affected by the ban. I just thought it was funny considering how juvenile most of their writing is.

 

[Threi]

If this were true, gaming would have died in the late 80's. Gamer elitist assholes aren't any worse today than they were back then, in fact they were worse back then. Having some prick hog the SFII arcade machine and never let you play is a lot worse than some goon posting rants on an obscure internet forum.

The difference is the elitist gamer assholes back then were very clearly elitist gamer assholes and nerds. Nowadays they tend to blend in with the mainstream gamer more, and thus try to speak as a representative of a group they aren't really in.

 

[Vinci]

No, there's quite a bit more people identifying themselves as hardcore gamers these days.

Hell, back then the splitting of the gaming audience wasn't anything like it was today. You had crazy game-addicted maniacs, and you had everyone else.

The thing is, these "crazy game-addicted maniacs" didn't mind when "everyone else" played games. This is why arcades and NES systems both had their place. There was harmony. Nowadays, you have the hardcore gamers and everyone else (where "everyone else" now includes "casual gamers") and the hardcore don't want everyone else even near their hobby.

This is probably exacerbated by the fact that apparently we're counting GTA as a hardcore game now. It's as if lots of casuals were suddenly promoted.

 

[ArtOfLife]

I don't really understand their point about Faith; if anything I'd have said she was a good example of a female character in a game. And I was pleased that the developers didn't throw in a shower scene, or a skimpy costume for you to select after you finished the game. She just looks like a normal woman in fairly standard sports clothes. The game was in first person anyway.

I can't believe they didn't mention the Dead or Alive girls and Rachel from Ninja Gaiden, and yet they consider Alyx from Half Life, The Boss from MGS, Claire Redfield and Faith to be 'offenders' or bad examples of women in games.

 

[Haunted]

Patrick Kolan may be a drooling trog, and IGN probably deserves it, but if we're going to ban big sites in protest I'd rather reserve it for something like Gerstmanngate. Ban sites for publishing shitty articles by staff writers with preadolescent reading levels and a lot more than IGN would have to go into the trash bin.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

[LCfiner]

I don't really understand their point about Faith; if anything I'd have said she was a good example of a female character in a game. And I was pleased that the developers didn't throw in a shower scene, or a skimpy costume for you to select after you finished the game. She just looks like a normal woman in fairly standard sports clothes. The game was in first person anyway.

I can't believe they didn't mention the Dead or Alive girls and Rachel from Ninja Gaiden, and yet they consider Alyx from Half Life, The Boss from MGS, Claire Redfield and Faith to be 'offenders' or bad examples of women in games.

yeah, you seem to be a bit late to this thread...

 

[NubCakes09]

And this is why I despise IGN.

 

[Threi]

wow i actually just read the thread (I read the article a while ago)

holy shit :lol

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

11. Videogame is not a word.

 

[GC|Simon]

 

[GameGamer]

So now IGN is unbanned?

That's why it pays to be a big fish.

 

[Anticitizen One]

OP, your meltdown at the end of the article was hillarious :lol

 

[JudgeN]

Honestly, I think there's more of them now. Or at least more people identifying themselves as such. Perhaps not. I think the biggest problem isn't so much hardcore gamers but massive technophiles deciding to ride console rather than PC where it makes more sense.

Well you gotta go were the games are, I can't get Final Fantasy/Star Ocean/etc on my PC a decade ago when the graphical arm race started to pick up. So these people had to jump ship to consoles, that's what made sense at the time. They just choose to stay were the games were at and the games are on consoles. So what did you want them to do or where did you want them to go?

 

[ShadyMilkman]

Heh, didn't realize it was initially banned over the Female Lead point.


Hahahah, some women here have some saaaaandy vaginas

 

[Captain Smoker]

Omg. xD :lol :lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

The only thing that list did was make me wish for an Eternal Darkness sequel.

 

[Vinci]

Well you gotta go were the games are, I can't get Final Fantasy/Star Ocean/etc on my PC a decade ago when the graphical arm race started to pick up. So these people had to jump ship to consoles, that's what made sense at the time. They just choose to stay were the games were at and the games are on consoles. So what did you want them to do or where did you want them to go?

Is the PC starving for games now? My point is that some of the growing pains we're experiencing this generation have a great deal to do with the demand of high-end technology when it wasn't really necessary or desired by the mainstream market. PCs are always in need of the highest end hardware, so it makes sense - given how well the PC market is doing right now - to not try and force the console market to be PC-lite. It offers different benefits and features, as it should.

 

[Darkpen]

aww, unbanned? Oh well, it was fun.

 

[Kaako]

Welcome back, ***!
:O

 

[Azelover]

So the way to prevent video games from becoming marginalized and treated like toys is to make toy-like games. Wait, what?

I guess I agree with the overall idea but the argument is structured really strangely. My problem is that there aren't very many bridge games for the Wii right now, which can help people new to gaming transition to the meatier stuff. No one is going to be able to go straight from Wii Sports to Mario Galaxy.

You're looking at it from a different perspective. You think gaming will be respected by being bigger and badder, when that's not the problem that needs to be tackled. You say Wii Fit is and Wii Sports are toy-like, and that's fine, but you're ignoring why it is they are instrumental in bringing respect to our industry.

And I know it will continue to be overlooked for the time being, but the inherent problem, besides people not playing games is the perception that it is a waste of time. Wii Fit and Wii Sports ought to be respected not because of storyline, not because of art, it's never going to become respected by those standards when other problems are still prevalent. Wii Sports and Wii Fit ought to be respected because they are designed in such a way as to contribute to society, rather than be perceived as retracting from it.

Instead of perceivably taking someone off society, it includes people, it sets out to make them healthier and giving fun to people who can't sport properly anymore(like the elderly), and making people want to gather not through an internet connection but through genuine interaction with one another, that's generally adding to society in its unique way. I don't think we ever will be respected by the standards of film, because we don't have it in the nature of our medium to have the focus be on stories and I don't think it should, we couldn't compete with it. But we can be respected as our own entity bringing contributions in different ways.

 

[kodt]

Mario Kart Wii has really good motion controls with the Wii Wheel. Sure it may not be as "tight" as a control stick but it works! and that's all that matters.

No way, the motion controls were horrible, you couldn't even do a power slide reliably...

 

[SimpleDesign]

The difference is the elitist gamer assholes back then were very clearly elitist gamer assholes and nerds. Nowadays they tend to blend in with the mainstream gamer more, and thus try to speak as a representative of a group they aren't really in.

Pretty much.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

No way, the motion controls were horrible, you couldn't even do a power slide reliably...

Then you're doing it wrong.

And I hate IGN as much as anyone, but this started because someone got offended by a hardly-sexist remark? Wow, touchy subject apparently. Christ, chill out.

 

[Freshmaker]

No strong female leads: Gaming is a sexist, male-dominated medium.
A few strong female leads: This is cliche and uninteresting. Game developers need to get over their male guilt.

Bring in the bald muscle guy in power armor! Gaming's savior!

 

[KTallguy]

Instead of perceivably taking someone off society, it includes people, it sets out to make them healthier and giving fun to people who can't sport properly anymore(like the elderly), and making people want to gather not through an internet connection but through genuine interaction with one another, that's generally adding to society in its unique way. I don't think we ever will be respected by the standards of film, because we don't have it in the nature of our medium to have the focus be on stories and I don't think it should, we couldn't compete with it. But we can be respected as our own entity bringing contributions in different ways.

These kinds of statements make my blood boil.
Games can contribute more to society than being a tool for exercise, training, or simple parlor games.

They are not, or should not, be limited to simple distractions or amusements.
The impact that games has should not be limited to the emotions: happy & fun.
I'm not saying that games that invoke these emotions are bad, rather that we shouldn't limit ourselves.

There is so much more potential in the medium, as it's a two way, interactive experience.

What is currently limiting games is primarily accessibility and presentation.
As soon as those problems are solved, there is no reason that games can't eclipse movies to create more engaging and thought provoking experiences than any movie or book can.

Call me whatever the hell you want, but there are many, many directions that interactive games can go, and I'd like to see society explore all of them, not just the "happy fun" route.

Oh and IGN sucks. We need fewer "marketable" leads in gaming to begin with.

 

[Haunted]

Heh, didn't realize it was initially banned over the Female Lead point.


Hahahah, some women here have some saaaaandy vaginas

What part of your mind thought that this would be a good thing to post?

No way, the motion controls were horrible, you couldn't even do a power slide reliably...

Funny, since the power slide was activated with a button press.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Playing as either girls or guys is fine with me as long as the character isn't an empty head/non-entity. As to playing as hot chicks with large hooters, it's the same thing as with playing as men. I wouldn't want to play as a fat slob guy or girl either (unless it's Mario :lol). Nate Drake in Uncharted is supposed to be an everyman, but his model looks like a movie star.

 

[sugaki]

Hating IGN is only a sign you're a fanboy of some other pub, a nerd secretly jealous, or at worst a video-gaming elitist, which would mean you'd have no real-world friends.

IGN is a resource, it's not your savior, your mother, not the end-all-be-all to gaming. Just go in, find what you're looking for and get out. Not sure why people get so emotionally charged about articles from there. You're not marrying the site.

 

[djtiesto]

Glad to see the ban was relinquished... the article was pretty stupid (well, a good chunk of it namely the 'strong female character' thing... at least they didn't mention Alis in there because that would have pissed me off even more), but that doesn't mean one of the largest game sites should get censored.

 

[Haunted]

And if one more guy says that the ban was for this one article, I'll do something. It was the cumulation of shitty articles, editorials and reviews by IGN lately (they would've always been shit if it hadn't been for their insider news, but it got worse in recent times). This was just the last drop that made Dragona activate the filter.

Playing as either girls or guys is fine with me as long as the character isn't an empty head/non-entity. As to playing as hot chicks with large hooters, it's the same thing as with playing as men. I wouldn't want to play as a fat slob guy or girl either (unless it's Mario :lol). Nate Drake in Uncharted is supposed to be an everyman, but his model looks like a movie star.

They should have made Donut Drake the default, because that's what most gamers look like. But yeah, he's a likable guy for an action movie hero, but not an everyman.

 

[Vinci]

Glad to see the ban was relinquished... the article was pretty stupid (well, a good chunk of it namely the 'strong female character' thing... at least they didn't mention Alis in there because that would have pissed me off even more), but that doesn't mean one of the largest game sites should get censored.

As has been said before, it's not like ***'ing their name was wiping the site off the planet.