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IGN's The Orange Box Review (ps3)

Chrange said:
I can't figure out how the expense would be lower at all. You're still pressing X number of discs for that region, whether they include other region's languages or not.

The base costs for localization - the translation, etc... - don't change at all.

Having every region on one disc seems like just a means of filling up otherwise wasted Blu Ray space so that being forced to use the format for games seems more necessary.

I also find it extremely unlikely that any publisher would ever delay a game's release in major markets so they could include the localization for a small country on the disc. When a game is done and ready to press, they'll be cranking out copies to sell - not waiting for some last-minute translation work.
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It's the same reason that many video DVDs have multiple languages. The point is you have one master which serves all regions. The factory can stamp out 500,000 identical discs for the whole of Europe rather 3, 4 or even 10 separately mastered and certified discs for different languages. The labels might have to be different but the master is the same.

And only one master needs to be submitted to Sony for certification which also lowers costs. The downside is that you have to localize upfront rather than test the game's success in one region before considering whether to localize it for another. This means localization has to be part of the development and QA cycle, but it would still beat doing localization after the fact.
 
DrXym said:
It's the same reason that many video DVDs have multiple languages. The point is you have one master which serves all regions. The factory can stamp out 500,000 identical discs for the whole of Europe rather 3, 4 or even 10 separately mastered and certified discs for different languages. The labels might have to be different but the master is the same.

And only one master needs to be submitted to Sony for certification which also lowers costs. The downside is that you have to localize upfront rather than test the game's success in one region before considering whether to localize it for another. This means localization has to be part of the development and QA cycle, but it would still beat doing localization after the fact.
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But the point is, that 2 master dvds could have contained ALL the languages, with no detriment to the game. Pressing 2 dvds is still cheaper than pressing 1 blu-ray. Certification would still need to be done for all languages.
 
The Innocent X said:
But the point is, that 2 master dvds could have contained ALL the languages, with no detriment to the game. Pressing 2 dvds is still cheaper than pressing 1 blu-ray. Certification would still need to be done for all languages.
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Well first off, the PS3 uses Blu Ray discs for games so the issue of DVDs is moot.

But even if it weren't, HS (which I will use as an example) has 10Gb of sound for 11 languages. 11 into 10Gb means just under 1Gb of sound per locale. So assuming 8Gb available space on a DVD, the game data would have to be no more than 7Gb in order to fit. So that's 11 certified & mastered DVDs instead of 1 blu ray even assuming the game itself would fit. It certainly would not just be 2 DVDs unless this game consumes no space at all.

Are you so certain it would be cheaper? More likely, 6 or 7 languages would immediately get shitcanned to save money which is hardly good for those countries.

And that's just one title. Even if you could claim that HS could be squeezed onto a DVD, it doesn't mean Drake's Fortune could, or Resistance or MGS4 or whatever random title you wish to discuss.

Localization is obviously an advantage of the space that Blu Ray has over DVD. Maybe it's not a big deal if you speak English. It could be a very big deal if you're Spanish, German, French, Italian, Norwegian, etc. and must suffer 50% or more of your games being in a foreign language.
 
DrXym said:
Well first off, the PS3 uses Blu Ray discs for games so the issue of DVDs is moot.

But even if it weren't, HS (which I will use as an example) has 10Gb of sound for 11 languages. 11 into 10Gb means just under 1Gb of sound per locale. So assuming 8Gb available space on a DVD, the game data would have to be no more than 7Gb in order to fit. So that's 11 certified & mastered DVDs instead of 1 blu ray even assuming the game itself would fit. It certainly would not just be 2 DVDs unless this game consumes no space at all.
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Is that Dolby HD or Dolby Digital? Because theres going to be a big difference in space used there.
 
DrXym said:
Well first off, the PS3 uses Blu Ray discs for games so the issue of DVDs is moot.

But even if it weren't, HS (which I will use as an example) has 10Gb of sound for 11 languages. 11 into 10Gb means just under 1Gb of sound per locale. So assuming 8Gb available space on a DVD, the game data would have to be no more than 7Gb in order to fit. So that's 11 certified & mastered DVDs instead of 1 blu ray even assuming the game itself would fit. It certainly would not just be 2 DVDs unless this game consumes no space at all.

Are you so certain it would be cheaper? More likely, 6 or 7 languages would immediately get shitcanned to save money which is hardly good for those countries.

And that's just one title. Even if you could claim that HS could be squeezed onto a DVD, it doesn't mean Drake's Fortune could, or Resistance or MGS4 or whatever random title you wish to discuss.

Localization is obviously an advantage of the space that Blu Ray has over DVD. Maybe it's not a big deal if you speak English. It could be a very big deal if you're Spanish, German, French, Italian, Norwegian, etc. and must suffer 50% or more of your games being in a foreign language.
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The point of discussion was why this game specifically didn`t have a spanish dub on the 360. We aren`t talking about HS, I specifically said that some games make good use of BD, but not this one. The sound in OB, is probably less than a couple of hundred megs per language (this isn`t a 7.1 lossless track we're talking about). This game could easily have been put onto 2 DVDs, at very little or no extra production cost. The reason why it wasn't localised was not to do with space in this case.
 
I need more info on Team Fortress. The reason I didn't buy this on 360 is because I won't be playing it on Xbox Live. If its jacked up on PS3 as well, then there's no reason not to get the 360 version.
 
Kyoufu said:
The last thing PS3 needs right now is software being boycotted by potential buyers.
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yeah, but when such software has been boycotted by people who developed it sending out a inferior product it's not really an hard choice
 
theBishop said:
I need more info on Team Fortress. The reason I didn't buy this on 360 is because I won't be playing it on Xbox Live. If its jacked up on PS3 as well, then there's no reason not to get the 360 version.
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Well you can bet it won`t have dedicated servers, EA aren't going to pay for that.
 
theBishop said:
I need more info on Team Fortress. The reason I didn't buy this on 360 is because I won't be playing it on Xbox Live. If its jacked up on PS3 as well, then there's no reason not to get the 360 version.
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If you want TF2, get it for PC, even if it can only be run at 15FPS. Even if you were willing to pay for live, the connection on the 360 version is a crapshot. Some games it's perfect, others it's a stuttering freakshow.
 
Defuser said:
Why should I buy the game when valve already planned it to die?
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If you lived in a small town with only one movie theater, and that movie theater's projectionist is always late changing the reels, should you still pay money to see No Country For Old Men?

The answer is yes.

Buy the game, because fundamentally, they're that good.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
If you lived in a small town with only one movie theater, and that movie theater's projectionist is always late changing the reels, should you still pay money to see No Country For Old Men?

The answer is yes.

Buy the game, because fundamentally, they're that good.
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I disagree. Games don't go stale. Wait until you have a decent enough computer and then take the plunge. Why ruin the experience for yourself with this half assed port? Play something else until you can get a PC that can run it.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
If you lived in a small town with only one movie theater, and that movie theater's projectionist is always late changing the reels, should you still pay money to see No Country For Old Men?

The answer is yes.

Buy the game, because fundamentally, they're that good.
Click to expand...

Holy shit, that movies #15 on imdb! And I didn't even hear about it!
 
Aaron said:
I disagree. Games don't go stale. Wait until you have a decent enough computer and then take the plunge. Why ruin the experience for yourself with this half assed port? Play something else until you can get a PC that can run it.
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Well, you're talking about moving to another town with a better movie theater. What if you can't? I know I'll never have a decent PC that runs The Orange Box because I'll probably never not get a Mac.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
If you lived in a small town with only one movie theater, and that movie theater's projectionist is always late changing the reels, should you still pay money to see No Country For Old Men?

The answer is yes.

Buy the game, because fundamentally, they're that good.
Click to expand...

I would drive to see the movie, or wait for the HD-dvd/Blu-ray. Some things are worth doing properly.
 
Seventeen seconds for a respawn in Portal? Seventeen? Jesus Christ. Don't even attempt the medal challenges then, or some of the advanced chambers.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Well, you're talking about moving to another town with a better movie theater. What if you can't? I know I'll never have a decent PC that runs The Orange Box because I'll probably never not get a Mac.
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Then buy the PS3 version. Or 360 one. Problem solved.

Or at least play the flash Portal.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Well, you're talking about moving to another town with a better movie theater. What if you can't? I know I'll never have a decent PC that runs The Orange Box because I'll probably never not get a Mac.
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If the first experience with a game is bad it can make you hate that game. We (humans) form opinions rather fast and stick with them.

So I think UT3 instead would be a better buy. We should encourage good ports and condemn bad ports.
 
Quite dissapointing that such a good set of fantastic games might get cockblocked by technical problems.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
Well, you're talking about moving to another town with a better movie theater. What if you can't? I know I'll never have a decent PC that runs The Orange Box because I'll probably never not get a Mac.
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There's always Boot Camp. That's how I play HL2 on my Mac.
 
BenjaminBirdie said:
I already got the 360 version, Day One. I'm just trying to keep my metaphor propped up which, as usual, is pretty difficult.
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Your metaphor is excellent but I missed the info that you've already played Portal.
 
The Innocent X said:
The point of discussion was why this game specifically didn`t have a spanish dub on the 360. We aren`t talking about HS, I specifically said that some games make good use of BD, but not this one. The sound in OB, is probably less than a couple of hundred megs per language (this isn`t a 7.1 lossless track we're talking about). This game could easily have been put onto 2 DVDs, at very little or no extra production cost. The reason why it wasn't localised was not to do with space in this case.
Click to expand...

Volume Manufacturing wins..

Printing 1 million copies of a single DVD will be cheaper than printing 500k of one and 500k of another.. (substitute Bluray)

And how do you know the inner workings of Valve and EA and the reasons for/against the localization? You are just making assumptions here.

extra point: Statistics have shown that properly localized games always sell better than they would if not localized.

(not specifically targetting anyone) Please enough with the Bluray has More languages because Sony Forces it Conspiracy crap... you're starting to look rediculous.
 
I agree with the score. If the technical aspects are starting to interfere with the gameplay, points should be deducted.

If you really think that the enjoyment level you get from the PS3 version is on par with that of the PC version (barring the few odd cavemen who run it on 5+ year old hardware), think again.
 
The Innocent X said:
It does indeed, and that is why it is far cheaper to produce a number of dvds over a single blu-ray. But again, that was not the issue at hand.
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And you know this because..??

Do you know the cost of manufacturing DVD - Bluray? or are you simply ASSUMING it must be some humongous difference?

we all know dvd is cheaper to produce.. but how much so is unknown... its also relative.. and having multiple discs also ads to the over head of many versions of discs flying around the place.
 
Seriously i CANT believe this shit isnt running 720p (even 1080p!) AA4X 60fps.

When half life 2 was available on xbox 1 i said something like...."i think ill wait for next gen systems to play it in its full glory in HD, 60fps stable with FSAA"

jeezz, i was so full of dreams :lol
 
I watched my friend play some of episode 2 and portal and on his crappy PC. It run fairly smooth, just lots of tearing and some framerate issue in the larger fights with lots of stuff happening. I'm fairly sure the ps3 version will run at least that well, so I'm grabbing it eventually.
 
f@luS said:
Seriously i CANT believe this shit isnt running 720p (even 1080p!) AA4X 60fps.

When half life 2 was available on xbox 1 i said something like...."i think ill wait for next gen systems to play it in its full glory in HD, 60fps stable with FSAA"

jeezz, i was so full of dreams :lol
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HL2 Ep2 is about 3 times as shader intensive as the original HL2. Add better (bigger) textures and you can see where all the performance went.
 
This has to be the most difficult choice EVER.

[infinite]I want to play those games.. but I don't want to support shit ports.. but I want to play those games... but I hate Newell and EA.... but I did enjoy even the Xbox port of HL2 so.... so what? It's another half-assed job, vote with your money... yeah but PS3 games need to sell, and what if there's a patch?.... Fuck the patch, 17 seconds when you die in Portal... b....b...b..b. but I want to play and I have it pre-ordered.. [/infinite]

ARG!
 
deepbrown said:
Harsh...reviewers only just know what framerate is. Didn't stop them from gushing over SOTC.
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SOTC pushed the PS2 hardware beyond its limits coding right to the metal and using every cheat and trick available, PS3 version of HL2 @ 30 fps on the other hand...
 
erick said:
HL2 Ep2 is about 3 times as shader intensive as the original HL2. Add better (bigger) textures and you can see where all the performance went.
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and yet it runs flawlessly on a quite "not new" computer.
 
sphinx said:
The 360 version of this game game received 9.5 and it's considered by many the game of the year.

this is yet one more case of PS3 just getting a lazy port, isn't it?
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It's funny when a lazy port of a great game is still pretty darn good. If only more multiplatform games could make similar claims.
 
IGN said:
Even in Portal, a short title that often requires a little trial and error, this problem is massive. The 360 version takes about three seconds to load your last checkpoint if you die. The PS3 version takes seventeen. It hurts.
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Must be because of Cell, eh Gabe? :lol
 
So why in the blue fuck isn't Sony sending programmers over to EA and whoever else is drumming out ports to give them a ton of assistance for things like this? It's been no secret that EA was hitting a snag bringing The Orange Box over the the PS3. If Cell is so complex, why not send in some experts to help developers marry their technology to the new platform?
 
I wonder if the person reviewing this for IGN installed the game to the hard disk.

I think this is one of those issues that is VERY subjective and needs to be seen in person on how terrible the issue is with the framerate. We have seen this with the response to the game so far, while the general consensus is that there are definite issues, especially in Episode 2, that some reviewers felt the game was "unplayable" while others said the game is totally fine...
 
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