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[The Beard]

Please, correct me if I'm wrong: gay couples aren't getting married in churches, so can't see why Catholics care so much.

Because these religious asshats think this is the United States of Jesus.

 

[Mecha]

Any talk about spirituality is radical because its unproven. If things were figured out and faith was not needed . Life would suck lol

I wouldn't say life would suck, but a life without any scientific advancements would be boring. Luckily we won't have to worry about that because we will probably all die before all of life's mysteries are answered and scientifically backed. Even if we had unlimited time I doubt we would be able to comprehend some of the discoveries.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Gays now have the right to be married. But the past is not buried. That rainbow colored flag that they carried, can now be held, just a little less scary.
So many ignorant voices are heard. Uneducated bigots who's minds have not turned.
So many so quick to put their faith in a book, when the truth is so easy to see if they would just look.
I'm so happy to see that this change is finally here, but I am amazed that it took finally happen this year.
I'm so happy for all my brothers and sisters who can marry whatever, a misses or mister.
Progress has been made, here's to a new day. Fuck the haters, their time is fading away.

 

[Triggafinga]

why would life suck? I'm an atheist, so I don't think about any of that and life is great.

Also regarding the gender thing, how do you enforce gender roles? Honestly curious, do you make boys do "manly stuff while girls do "girly" stuff? If gender is already defined, wouldn't they find out everything on their own without guidance?

It's cool that you'd be fine with a trans family member btw.

Believing there is no God is powerful. Forces one to determine their own morality and takes faith to see the value in them and follow them.

If I had a boy I would paint there room blue, dress them in boy clothing and buy "boy" toys and gauge his response to those stimuli.

I would identify whether he saw me as a role model. If he imitated my movements ecetera.

 

[zelas]

To answer the OP's question, "Hate the sin, but love the sinner" is fundamental to Christian doctrine. Christians believe that human beings began as innocent, basically good creatures but have been corrupted over time by their own gravitation to sin, of which homosexuality (and really, all sexual behavior that is not procreative heterosexual coupling within a church-recognized marriage) is one. Their belief is not that homosexuals are evil for their lifestyles, but that they have given in to a sinful temptation that God intended them to resist. Much of Christianity, and this is true of religions as a whole, is about attaining some level of mastery of the self so as to transcend baser, more instinctual urges, with the promise that whatever hardship this brings upon one will pale in comparison to the more blissful afterlife one stands to inherit. In the context of religion as a tool of social and political cohesion and control, this makes sense - sex, drugs, gambling, rebellion, and other such things are potentially costly, destabilizing forces in human life, so having at least an ideal to try and shun these things and strive for something higher will leave a people better off than would a hedonistic embrace of all corporeal pleasures. Heck, I would argue that many individuals of my own less faithful generation are far too free and copious in their use of alcohol and drugs, and I sense a certain stagnation in many of them as a result. So to some extent, I honestly understand why these sorts of fleeting, shallow pleasures are downplayed in many religions the world over.

Anyway, in the time where Christianity came into being, "homosexuality" as a marker of identity, rather than behavior, simply did not exist. We understand now that there are those exclusively attracted to their own or to the opposite sex, and a very fine gradient in between. But in Ancient Rome, for example, the culture that ruled over the area where early Christianity first arose, the vast majority of gay folk - particularly those of the upper class, who would have been the moral "tastemakers", for lack of a better word - would still have been expected to marry, have kids, and pass the same milestones as any other Roman citizen because marriage, in that world, was not so much about the personal and the romantic, as in today's world, but about property rights, social standing, political ambition, and other such factors. A man, in such a society, would have had a certain degree of freedom to pursue extramarital romantic relationships, and while homosexuality might have been frowned upon, to a degree, it was really the passive homosexual partner that was met with the most scorn. In such a world, homosexual behavior was not understood as something fundamental to one's character, but as a "side dalliance", something that was part of one's personal life, rather than a matter of public importance. There is a wide variety of ways that societies have related to homosexuality, but in my own studying, this idea of it as something that one does in addition to the "real" things, a preference laid atop one's life rather than something a part of people's personal foundation, seems pretty common among many cultures, probably because, most of the time, that's what it WOULD have been. Given such a context, it's not hard to see how it might then have been understood as simply another earthly pleasure, to be discouraged and stamped out like all the rest.

So, OP, the reason Christians say they don't hate gay people, despite disapproving of homosexuality and of gay marriage, is because one of the basic principles of their worldview is that all human beings are tempted to at least some extent by things and actions that fall outside what God expects of the righteous. What they think is that gay behavior is wrong and that those with the desire to engage in it have a religious duty to shun it, but they might be able to relate to the difficult struggle that comes with being a righteous person and understand that, outside of their sexual and romantic lifestyle, a gay person can be good in other respects.

As for why such beliefs persist? Because death is scary, religion comforts, and if Christianity helped them in one respect, and has been helping people for far longer than any modern concept of sexuality, then it's probably right in this other respect. I disagree, and resist those who would try to impose this philosophy via legislation, but I do at least understand it, somewhat.

Pretty sensible answer to OP's question.

 

[Soph]

I'm sorry about your friend, but I'm going to be objective about this. Your friend took the easy way out instead of moving away from his life he was born into to start a new one. It's going to be difficult to move out, make money, make new friends, but that's better than just committing suicide.

I'm also going to say that people aren't perfect, and that includes Catholics. His family was probably very angry and hateful towards him that forced him to do what he did. That is different from the OP image where that Christian isn't going to act on his judgement, and if he hated his friend, then they wouldn't be friends.

Hate and Judgement are very different things.



People take their own lives for a lot more reasons than that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, you're advocating he should've ditched all of his family and all of his friends he made in church / school / highschool, while he was brought up and identified himself as a catholic christian. Instead of suiciding, which is the "easy" way out", due to the sheer amount of hate and judgements he received from his catholic community?

I don't know what to comment on this. I just wish he lived in more enlightened times, where catholics are more inclusive, caring and loving for everyone, regardless of what their archaic book has taught them.

 

[Air]

this is what undersmines the entire christian platform for homophobia. show me where it says jesus hates gays...

it's fucking stupid. Jesus said to cast a stone if you are without sin... if you love jesus and want to be like jesus so much, why is this such a big issue for you? it's because you would rather hold onto incompatible man made social constructs just because you label yourself as conservative... you don't really give a fuck what jesus has to say.

Very true. It becomes more of a title than a lifestyle for a lot of people and they use the text to validate whatever opinion they've already formed on the matter.

You're joking, of course, but it's actually a great example. There is no Westboro Baptist Church equivalent that protests obesity. There is no WBP equivalent with signs reading "God hates divorcees." There is particular and special attention paid to homosexuality which suggests it's more than just another sin for many Christians.

It's important to point out that this isn't true of all Christians, just to be clear. Saying that some Christians are suspiciously concerned with homosexuality is not the same as saying all of them are. I'm sure there are plenty of genuine Christians who think of homosexuality no differently than they think of masturbation (i.e. both are bad but we all sin), and some may be in this thread.

This is true. There was a thread a couple months ago about whether religion is the cause of homophobia. I believe the answer is no, but it can create a justification for someone behaving in a homophobic manner. I think people in general nowadays are turned off by the notion of homosexuality and they freak out and in doing so you can see where different avenues of their beliefs come in.

1. They may think homosexuality is gross
2. They see homosexuals as an easy 'other' and differentiating yourself from people like that is easier to dislike them.
3. They look for religious justification to cement that they're right (without questioning whether their opinion on what the religion's words say are true at all).

But you're right, and those who know a bit more about sin, biblically will agree that everybody sins, no one is perfect etc. so I think the reason we don't see the other stuff brought up is because it's harder break away some sort of positive connection from it, I.e. Sex feels nice so it's good and God is good or some logic like that. Essentially they're not put in a position where their preconceived framework is being challenged by an outsider and may be more susceptible to its influences (not thinking critically about their justification for what wrongs they are doing). Ironically, the point of pretty much all things being a sin is that no one is perfect.

 

[NervousXtian]

It's probably worth discussing this broadly, frankly.

That statement is about as unjudgmental as one can possibly be if you espouse the beliefs that person holds.

One might make the argument that it is not possible to be unjudgmental when you are against something like homosexuality.

Maybe that's true, but I'm not sure, so let's talk about it. As another example, many/most Christians also believe that not accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is a mortal sin. Do you feel this is arrogant and judgmental as well?

Maybe it is, but then, we're basically objecting to the entire concept of religion at this point: they believe certain things are true as an article of faith.

I'm okay with a christian who preaches tolerance. It'd be hypocritical of myself in my eyes to be openly critical to them for not following my beliefs for not buying into theirs. I draw the line at those who openly act against those who don't follow their beliefs though, if that makes sense.

Tolerant Christians, which honestly most of the new testament and Jesus's teachings are pretty tolerant of others, are fine in my book... but that's my view on just about anything.. if you aren't hurting others, or trying to force your beliefs on others.. do your thing.

I don't care if someone doesn't support gay marriage or approve of gays if they aren't actively do anything about it to others. It's their view to have.

Yes, this is definitely a problem for many or most. It's hard to argue that many Christians live by all aspects of the Bible.

Most Christians follow the rules of the new testament and view the old testament as outdated or for the Israelite, and that Jesus brought them into the rules of the new testament. Now there's those that believe that is false, and that the whole bible is the word of god so all most be obeyed.. but I think a majority of at least American Christians think that a lot of the old testament stuff is out right revolting to completely irrelevant in this day and age.

I'm an atheist as this point in my life, but years of church and Catholic school and forced bible study gives me a decent understanding of a lot of the arguments within the church's.

Anyhow, by all this I mean that when someone says they live by the bible, typically they mean they live by the teachings of Jesus.. not the old testament and it's long and drawn out text of conflicting and strange laws.

 

[Captain Europe]

It's just more salt.

 

[Unbounded]

How do they feel about same-sex couple's adopting? I bet they lose their shit.

They didn't really lose their shit, but they pretty much thought that the same-sex couple with an adopted child wasn't receiving as fulfilling a parenthood as a couple with a mother and father. They at the very least extended this to divorced couples and such, so they were at least somewhat consistent with their reasoning, I guess.

 

[bengraven]

Well, in fairness, it's considered a sin by their religion so by their thoughts you should be apologizing for your sin, praying it away, and never do it again.

Like divorce. Just ask god's forgiveness and return to your original spouse.

That's how it works, right?

 

[Shadow_FFVI]

People of faith that have any good sense will let God decide/judge and worry about their own salvation.

As a christian myself, I wholeheartedly agree. I basically just try to be a good person and respectful with everyone, irregardless of their beliefs or lifestyle.

 

[DekuLink]

If you are not judging or hating why bother doing this?
Why do you feel the need to share that you don't support gay marriage? How does it really affect you that they are allowed to marry? No-one will force you to marry one of the same sex as you.

of you are not judging them, why do you feel the need to tell them that you don't support them? I don't get it.

 

[Ahnez]

You're joking, of course, but it's actually a great example. There is no Westboro Baptist Church equivalent that protests obesity. There is no WBP equivalent with signs reading "God hates divorcees." There is particular and special attention paid to homosexuality which suggests it's more than just another sin for many Christians.

It's important to point out that this isn't true of all Christians, just to be clear. Saying that some Christians are suspiciously concerned with homosexuality is not the same as saying all of them are. I'm sure there are plenty of genuine Christians who think of homosexuality no differently than they think of masturbation (i.e. both are bad but we all sin), and some may be in this thread.

This point reminds me..
There is something I always wondered -

This kind of discrimination regarding homosexuality is nothing new, and it exists everywhere.
And certainly does not come only from Christians.

Even those who use religion to "justify" their hate are still just using it as a mask, I'm sure not all of them have this opinion just because of their religion

What I wondered is, why this happens? Why this specific topic can generate so much hate from some people?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

If you are not judging or hating why bother doing this?
Why do you feel the need to share that you don't support gay marriage? How does it really affect you that they are allowed to marry? No-one will force you to marry one of the same sex as you.

of you are not judging them, why do you feel the need to tell them that you don't support them? I don't get it.

There is no reason. Anybody who is sincere in not wanting to judge someone will simply not bring the issue up. It's not like Gays don't already know what the bible thinks about them.

 

[NervousXtian]

This point reminds me..
There is something I always wondered -

This kind of discrimination regarding homosexuality is nothing new, and it exists everywhere.
And certainly does not come only from Christians.

Even those who use religion to "justify" their hate are still just using it as a mask, I'm sure not all of them have this opinion just because of their religion

What I wondered is, why this happens? Why this specific topic can generate so much hate from some people?

It goes against the normal order people try to view life through, ie: Man + Woman = baby.

They view it as unnatural themselves, so they think it's wrong.

The problem with that view is that homosexuality is natural in a species, it's just atypical.

Keep in mind the bible even looked down upon infertile women (it was always women in the bible, they couldn't fathom it'd be the man's problem) as well as homosexuals.

It was about reproduction. Homosexuality went against that, as did someone being infertile. The point of marriage was to have children.

Ancient Egyptians considered a marriage complete at childbirth, not before, in example.

So take that view and twist in over thousands of years throughout different cultures, and sadly here we are... at least we are attempting to correct these views.

 

[Triggafinga]

Well, in fairness, it's considered a sin by their religion so by their thoughts you should be apologizing for your sin, praying it away, and never do it again.

Like divorce. Just ask god's forgiveness and return to your original spouse.

That's how it works, right?

I believe you should be led by a shepard.(Pastor/Priest/Father) I do not attend church often (currently) so my shepard is my relationship with God.

In the case of a divorce, I believe you should acknowledge your shortcomings, stay accountable for your initial decision to marry and execute to the best of your abilities. I use examples of Jesus being selfless.

If you fail at marriage you can ask for forgiveness and mean it. You can start anew and continue your walk with God.

Another Christian may think am crazy .

 

[Fenderputty]

t's actually not just homosexuality, it's any form of sex that isn't procreating life. That's why Catholics are against condoms, abortion, masturbation, any form of sexual activity that doesn't lead to having babies.

I don't think I've met a catholic who believes this themselves regardless of church doctrine. The church might be consistent but the members are not.

 

[BocoDragon]

This point reminds me..
There is something I always wondered -

This kind of discrimination regarding homosexuality is nothing new, and it exists everywhere.
And certainly does not come only from Christians.

Even those who use religion to "justify" their hate are still just using it as a mask, I'm sure not all of them have this opinion just because of their religion

What I wondered is, why this happens? Why this specific topic can generate so much hate from some people?

People tend to enjoy and support their own way of life. Their attitudes towards others may be dismissive or fearful without having built up an ideology of tolerance.

By the nature of our species being reproduced, we will, by definition, be a heterosexual dominant species. Homosexuals will be the minority in every society again and again. They are always at risk of being the rare outlier... And it shouldn't be that surprising that many societies individually come up with the idea that they are wrong or to be feared or corrected.

There may also be the possibility that the dominant heterosexual attraction to the opposite sex contains the implication of non-attraction to the same sex... And the majority projects their revulsion to same sex acts into other people as a moral proclamation.

All in all it's very primitive and immature reactions to a minority. The creepy part is how these base fears have been enshrined as rules in religions. For all this talk about how Christianity is about being a higher self resistant to sins... I think a lot of their moral rules are actually reinforcements about very primitive, illogical tendencies. All the moral rules align with a kind of populism that a majority of primitive people would probably agree with.

 

[Wynnebeck]

As a christian myself, I wholeheartedly agree. I basically just try to be a good person and respectful with everyone, irregardless of their beliefs or lifestyle.

Only thing you can do. Pray for people, try to live to God's standards, and be friendly to everyone. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Arkeband]

http://www.audacitymovie.com/

I wonder what brilliant fucking answer they cooked up that they can't show in their trailer.

Well, at least Ken Ham loves it.

As long as these kinds of people have the loudest voice in Christianity, you're going to be lumped together, that's just how it works.

 

[Thequietone]

Because these religious asshats think this is the United States of Jesus.

My cousin's priest told me that Christianity isn't a religion because it is the truth. I was thinking well if you aren't a religion you should give up your tax exemption status.

 

[Makai]

http://www.audacitymovie.com/

I wonder what brilliant fucking answer they cooked up that they can't show in their trailer.

Well, at least Ken Ham loves it.

As long as these kinds of people have the loudest voice in Christianity, you're going to be lumped together, that's just how it works.

"Were you there?"

 

[Truelize]

Honest question here...

So does my religious beliefs stop me from being genuine when I say that I support the freedoms of all mankind?

Do I have to denounce my beliefs to be happy to see other people happy?

 

[Thequietone]

Honest question here...

So does my religious beliefs stop me from being genuine when I say that I support the freedoms of all mankind?

Do I have to denounce my beliefs to be happy to see other people happy?

No, it does not stop you from being genuine. Others see it differently and think that if they let gays marry that they are going to be punished by God, so they can't be happy for them.

 

[nib95]

To answer the OP's question, "Hate the sin, but love the sinner" is fundamental to Christian doctrine. Christians believe that human beings began as innocent, basically good creatures but have been corrupted over time by their own gravitation to sin, of which homosexuality (and really, all sexual behavior that is not procreative heterosexual coupling within a church-recognized marriage) is one. Their belief is not that homosexuals are evil for their lifestyles, but that they have given in to a sinful temptation that God intended them to resist. Much of Christianity, and this is true of religions as a whole, is about attaining some level of mastery of the self so as to transcend baser, more instinctual urges, with the promise that whatever hardship this brings upon one will pale in comparison to the more blissful afterlife one stands to inherit. In the context of religion as a tool of social and political cohesion and control, this makes sense - sex, drugs, gambling, rebellion, and other such things are potentially costly, destabilizing forces in human life, so having at least an ideal to try and shun these things and strive for something higher will leave a people better off than would a hedonistic embrace of all corporeal pleasures. Heck, I would argue that many individuals of my own less faithful generation are far too free and copious in their use of alcohol and drugs, and I sense a certain stagnation in many of them as a result. So to some extent, I honestly understand why these sorts of fleeting, shallow pleasures are downplayed in many religions the world over.

Anyway, in the time where Christianity came into being, "homosexuality" as a marker of identity, rather than behavior, simply did not exist. We understand now that there are those exclusively attracted to their own or to the opposite sex, and a very fine gradient in between. But in Ancient Rome, for example, the culture that ruled over the area where early Christianity first arose, the vast majority of gay folk - particularly those of the upper class, who would have been the moral "tastemakers", for lack of a better word - would still have been expected to marry, have kids, and pass the same milestones as any other Roman citizen because marriage, in that world, was not so much about the personal and the romantic, as in today's world, but about property rights, social standing, political ambition, and other such factors. A man, in such a society, would have had a certain degree of freedom to pursue extramarital romantic relationships, and while homosexuality might have been frowned upon, to a degree, it was really the passive homosexual partner that was met with the most scorn. In such a world, homosexual behavior was not understood as something fundamental to one's character, but as a "side dalliance", something that was part of one's personal life, rather than a matter of public importance. There is a wide variety of ways that societies have related to homosexuality, but in my own studying, this idea of it as something that one does in addition to the "real" things, a preference laid atop one's life rather than something a part of people's personal foundation, seems pretty common among many cultures, probably because, most of the time, that's what it WOULD have been. Given such a context, it's not hard to see how it might then have been understood as simply another earthly pleasure, to be discouraged and stamped out like all the rest.

So, OP, the reason Christians say they don't hate gay people, despite disapproving of homosexuality and of gay marriage, is because one of the basic principles of their worldview is that all human beings are tempted to at least some extent by things and actions that fall outside what God expects of the righteous. What they think is that gay behavior is wrong and that those with the desire to engage in it have a religious duty to shun it, but they might be able to relate to the difficult struggle that comes with being a righteous person and understand that, outside of their sexual and romantic lifestyle, a gay person can be good in other respects.

As for why such beliefs persist? Because death is scary, religion comforts, and if Christianity helped them in one respect, and has been helping people for far longer than any modern concept of sexuality, then it's probably right in this other respect. I disagree, and resist those who would try to impose this philosophy via legislation, but I do at least understand it, somewhat.

This is a pretty sensible post in response to the OP, irrespective of whether people necessarily agree or not.

 

[Arkeband]

"Were you there?"

Supposedly it's to help Christians verbalize why they don't agree with gay marriage but without sounding like total assholes.

Oh, and it's made by the 'banana is an atheist's nightmare' guy!

 

[Moza]

Just an observation from a non American but why is there such a stigma on people who are against same sex marriage. There are many many many important issues that have completely polar opposite opinions, ones that affect a lot more people than the title of marriage yet none carry such a stigma when supporting one view or opinion.

For eg:
Healthcare: 2 very different opinions and something that affects a lot more people and their lives than the title of marriage yet you arent considered a bigot or ridiculed for either opinion.

Capital Punishment: 2 opposite sides again and an issue that actually takes a life not just a title. Again no real issue if people have differing opinions.

'War of Terror': Again different opinions and something that directly impacts millions of lives, yet you arent called a bigot or a murderer for 1 side of an opinoin.

Gun Laws: 2 very opposite and very passionate opinions yet you can openly say you support implementation of strict gun laws or not without have such a label.

It just seems that what began as trying to fight intolerance or prejudice has really just turned into showing intolerance and prejudice to a different group of people.
People can have different opinions, you don't live their life and they don't live yours. If someone wants to make a rainbow profile pic then good one them, if someone wants to have that as their profile pic then they can do that also. People on both sides need to seriously get off their high horse.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I don't see the connection between being judgemental and being hateful.

And I can tell you why Catholics are against homosexuality. It's actually not just homosexuality, it's any form of sex that isn't procreating life. That's why Catholics are against condoms, abortion, masturbation, any form of sexual activity that doesn't lead to having babies.

So if the man is sterile, he shouldn't have sex with his wife?

 

[SaviorX]

I've heard a lot is statements along the lines that the gay marriage issue will "cause a civil war", yet I'm confused as to who would be on what side and what the opposition really is.

Is it right v. Left? Homosexual v. Heterosexual? North v. South? Christian v. Non-Christian? I'm totally lost, but then again so are the minds of those even mentioning civil war.

 

[Fenderputty]

The sane vs the insane

 

[Gnome]

Just an observation from a non American but why is there such a stigma on people who are against same sex marriage. There are many many many important issues that have completely polar opposite opinions, ones that affect a lot more people than the title of marriage yet none carry such a stigma when supporting one view or opinion.

For eg:
Healthcare: 2 very different opinions and something that affects a lot more people and their lives than the title of marriage yet you arent considered a bigot or ridiculed for either opinion.

Capital Punishment: 2 opposite sides again and an issue that actually takes a life not just a title. Again no real issue if people have differing opinions.

'War of Terror': Again different opinions and something that directly impacts millions of lives, yet you arent called a bigot or a murderer for 1 side of an opinoin.

Gun Laws: 2 very opposite and very passionate opinions yet you can openly say you support implementation of strict gun laws or not without have such a label.

It just seems that what began as trying to fight intolerance or prejudice has really just turned into showing intolerance and prejudice to a different group of people.
People can have different opinions, you don't live their life and they don't live yours. If someone wants to make a rainbow profile pic then good one them, if someone wants to have that as their profile pic then they can do that also. People on both sides need to seriously get off their high horse.

It's possible to create a cogent argument on these issues, while gay marriage on the other hand, boils down to religion oppressing a group of people. That or simply being uneducated on homosexuality.

 

[Shaanyboi]

"Yes, we love you, yes we are still friends....

we just don't agree with the notion of you having equal rights as us, nor do we agree with the idea that your expression of love should be viewed the same in the eyes of God because reasons. BUT WE STILL TIGHT THO!"

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Just an observation from a non American but why is there such a stigma on people who are against same sex marriage. There are many many many important issues that have completely polar opposite opinions, ones that affect a lot more people than the title of marriage yet none carry such a stigma when supporting one view or opinion.

For eg:
Healthcare: 2 very different opinions and something that affects a lot more people and their lives than the title of marriage yet you arent considered a bigot or ridiculed for either opinion.

Capital Punishment: 2 opposite sides again and an issue that actually takes a life not just a title. Again no real issue if people have differing opinions.

'War of Terror': Again different opinions and something that directly impacts millions of lives, yet you arent called a bigot or a murderer for 1 side of an opinoin.

Gun Laws: 2 very opposite and very passionate opinions yet you can openly say you support implementation of strict gun laws or not without have such a label.

It just seems that what began as trying to fight intolerance or prejudice has really just turned into showing intolerance and prejudice to a different group of people.
People can have different opinions, you don't live their life and they don't live yours. If someone wants to make a rainbow profile pic then good one them, if someone wants to have that as their profile pic then they can do that also. People on both sides need to seriously get off their high horse.

Enough of this. There are members of the LGBT community that have spent their whole lives lying to themselves and others about who they are out of fear. We've faced torment ostracism, and even death because of it, being called out for being a bigot is nowhere near on the same level, people who are complaining about persecution are blowing it out of proportion because they can't handle that society doesn't want to deal with their hateful bullshit anymore.

 

[SeanR1221]

So if the man is sterile, he shouldn't have sex with his wife?

It's not my view but I was in catholic school for 12 years.

When that question was asked the teacher would either

1.) get really uncomfortable and change the subject

2.) double down and reaffirm that sex is only meant to procreate.

 

[Moza]

It's possible to create a cogent argument on these issues, while gay marriage on the other hand, boils down to religion oppressing a group of people. That or simply being uneducated on homosexuality.

A religious person can say the same thing to you though in regards to being uneducated on their faith and beliefs. It's a 2 way street. I mean when people bring up issues like Abortion, Euthanasia or Capital Punishment then the whole 'its just religion' argument also gets shoved in their face also.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

A religious person can say the same thing to you though in regards to being uneducated on their faith and beliefs. It's a 2 way street. I mean when people bring up issues like Abortion, Euthanasia or Capital Punishment then the whole 'its just religion' argument also gets shoved in their face also.

It's no secret what the Bible thinks about homosexuality, believe me.

 

[Moza]

Enough of this. There are members of the LGBT community that have spent their whole lives lying to themselves and others about who they are out of fear. We've faced torment ostracism, and even death because of it, being called out for being a bigot is nowhere near on the same level, people who are complaining about persecution are blowing it out of proportion because they can't handle that society doesn't want to deal with their hateful bullshit anymore.

I'm not arguing the pain those people have faced but you just did some crazy good selective reading. Why ignore my entire point. Are you saying the other issues I posted dont have many people who have suffered greatly or even died because of them?

What about the families that can't afford healthcare and the pain they suffer. Why isn't arguing against free nationwide healthcare seen as pure selfishness.
What about the thousands upon thousands of innocence lives lost because of war and the millions of families it has affected. Is their pain not great? Their loss of life? Why isn't promoting war seen as a great atrocity?
What about the man who loses his life from a wrongful conviction? Tell me a greater pain than that. Why aren't pro capital punishment people regarded as bigots or fools?

 

[cameron]

A post from another thread (all due respect to the member; just using the post to draw a parallel):

He said he despises religions, not the religious.

And like I said my religion makes up a large part of my identity and my worldview. Saying he hates my identity and my worldview but he's just fine with me personally is kinda nonsense.

Do Christians who follow the notion of "hate the sin, love the sinner" agree with the above? ("hate the religion, love the religious" being nonsense?)

 

[Moza]

It's no secret what the Bible thinks about homosexuality, believe me.

The Bible teaches that the act of homosexuality is a sin. Same as any sexual intercourse outside of a hetrosexual marriage. The bible also says that a man can never hate the sinner. Only the sin. If you are educated on the Bible you'd know that Jesus' time was mostly spent with sinners and was a great defender of them but never a promoter of their sin. That's all that profile pic is saying. I understand that it might be difficult to comprehend for some but it's similar to if your best friend was to do something to someone else that you considered wrong (for eg, lets say he cheated on his gf or wife). Do you completely hate him/her, never speak to him again or judge him for the rest of his life? Or do you stay a friend with that person and be kind yet at the same time never promoting or be in approval of their actions?

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I'm not arguing the pain those people have faced but you just did some crazy good selective reading. Why ignore my entire point. Are you saying the other issues I posted dont have many people who have suffered greatly or even died because of them?

What about the families that can't afford healthcare and the pain they suffer. Why isn't arguing against free nationwide healthcare seen as pure selfishness.
What about the thousands upon thousands of innocence lives lost because of war and the millions of families it has affected. Is their pain not great? Their loss of life? Why isn't promoting war seen as a great atrocity?
What about the man who loses his life from a wrongful conviction? Tell me a greater pain than that. Why aren't pro capital punishment people regarded as bigots or fools?

Arguing against free healthcare is seen as pure selfishness by a lot of people, promoting war is seen as dangerous, innocent being killed the death penalty is seen as awful, etc.

I'm not really seeing what kind of point you're trying to make. It sounds like you haven't actually been paying attention to the discussions you're using as examples.

People who are against same-sex marriage are seen as bigots now because their is no objective or rational reason to be against it. Pretty much every argument that was thrown SSM has ties to intolerance or bigotry. It's not a very nuanced subject.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

The Bible teaches that the act of homosexuality is a sin. Same as any sexual intercourse outside of a hetrosexual marriage. The bible also says that a man can never hate the sinner. Only the sin. If you are educated on the Bible you'd know that Jesus' time was mostly spent with sinners and was a great defender of them but never a promoter of their sin. That's all that profile pic is saying. I understand that it might be difficult to comprehend for some but it's similar to if your best friend was to do something to someone else that you considered wrong (for eg, lets say he cheated on his gf or wife). Do you completely hate him/her, never speak to him again or judge him for the rest of his life? Or do you stay a friend with that person and be kind yet at the same time never promoting or be in approval of their actions?

The image wants the ability to directly judge somebody without any of the consequences that come with it. There is no reason to bring up what the bible says about sexuality if you don't wish to make your friend feel like they're being judged.

 

[Moza]

Arguing against free healthcare is seen as pure selfishness by a lot of people, promoting war is seen as dangerous, innocent being killed the death penalty is seen as awful, etc.

I'm not really seeing what kind of point you're trying to make. It sounds like you haven't actually been paying attention to the discussions you're using as examples.

People who are against same-sex marriage are seen as bigots now because their is no objective or rational reason to be against it. Pretty much every argument that was thrown SSM has ties to intolerance or bigotry. It's not a very nuanced subject.

I disagree that people with pro war, pro capital punishment, pro privatisation of health care are seen as awful though. I see those issues openly discussed many times without any side truly getting labeled as bigots or fools or down right horrible people that you would want nothing to do with.

I understand your view in regards to your final sentence but you can only have that view if you completely dismiss someone's religion or someone's view on a 'natural family'. Just like how religious people can completely dismiss your ideas as being irrational to them. There are people against IVF because it isn't natural, there are people against surrogate mothers, etc. Just because something doesn't seem rational or objective in your eyes doesn't mean that it doesn't for someone else.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't see the connection between being judgemental and being hateful.

And I can tell you why Catholics are against homosexuality. It's actually not just homosexuality, it's any form of sex that isn't procreating life. That's why Catholics are against condoms, abortion, masturbation, any form of sexual activity that doesn't lead to having babies.

90% of US catholics support condoms. Fuck guess Catholicism just became the smallest religion in the US.

 

[RM8]

I would answer with: who cares? I don't think people should marry when they're too young, or for money, or for a visa, or whatever - but as someone who isn't a meddlesome jerk, I don't go around telling people I disagree with their marriages. So kindly shut up and get over it.

 

[TheAwesomePossum]

A few of the posts in this thread got me thinking. Wouldn't being a gay Christian really suck? You're basically repressing your sexuality until you die.

 

[Guileless]

Hillary Clinton said it best she she said, "“Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman."

 

[Fenderputty]

Hillary Clinton said it best she she said, "“Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman."

Should I list all the comments STILL being made by the current crop of righties?

Why do people bring this up? When did she even say that?

 

[Easton Dark]

A few of the posts in this thread got me thinking. Wouldn't being a gay Christian really suck? You're basically repressing your sexuality until you die.

People kill themselves because of it.

It's not a fun time.

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

Hillary Clinton said it best she she said, "“Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman."

So? got any quotes that aren't years old?

Not to mention, marriage hasn't always been 1 guy one girl. It's had about as many poly unions as it has two party ones, not to mention women literally being treated as chattel for a good chunk of history so far as marriage is concerned.