Gizmo_Monkey
Banned
the dlc for ninja gaiden was already on the disc you have to pay 800pts to unlock it. no way the new enviros and bosses and music would have fit into a 10mb dl.
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I'm sick of freaking DLC
- Thread starter Hwang Seong-Gyeong
- Start date
Diablohead
Member
10mb is still big to just "unlock" stored data, while the models and graphics may be from the game disc the data could be telling it how each stage is setup etc.Gizmo_Monkey said:
rollingstart
Banned
DLC that acts as an expansion pack are good. Example: Oblivion Shivering Isle.
DLC that is meant to nickle and dime your ass for bits of new content are bad. Examples: Stranglehold and Soul Calibur 4.
DLC that is free and included in patches because they are totally awesome are awesome. Examples: Burnout Paradise.
DLC Map packs that segment the community are mostly bad. Examples: Pretty much all shooters in the market.
DLC that is always on disk are FUCKING HORRIBLE. Examples: Soul Calibur 4 and Godfather.
DLC that is meant to nickle and dime your ass for bits of new content are bad. Examples: Stranglehold and Soul Calibur 4.
DLC that is free and included in patches because they are totally awesome are awesome. Examples: Burnout Paradise.
DLC Map packs that segment the community are mostly bad. Examples: Pretty much all shooters in the market.
DLC that is always on disk are FUCKING HORRIBLE. Examples: Soul Calibur 4 and Godfather.
starchild excalibur
Member
Gizmo_Monkey said:
This perfectly typifies a situation where it's perfectly okay to hate DLC. Seriously, I can understand if they didn't develop that extra content until after the game come out. But to include it on the disc that you already paid for just to charge you extra to access that?
How many other situations can you think of where that happens/is acceptable?
I echo the sentiment that the only things that deserve the DLC fees are extra songs (due to licensing costs) and significant additions to a game. Paying extra money for an alternate outfit is bullshit.
I agree with most people here saying that DLC is a bad thing for gamers. Last time I checked, maps, patches and stuff like that was something made out of love for the fanbase, not for because some crap ass companies like MS and Sony wants to rip off you even more. It's not like gaming is a cheap hobby in the first place.
I'm perfectly alright with games like Eden and SSHD. Actually I love that, but all that extra content like maps. It's free on the PC, stop giving me BS on why it shouldn't be on a console. It really just pisses users off even more which in the end probably will lead to more pirates downloading games. As a recent example you can take Wipeout Pulse. In Pure ALL the DLC was free, and remember that was before the PSstore. Then the PSstore launches, and all of a sort you have to pay insane prices for something that no more than 2 years earlier was completely free of charge.
I'm perfectly alright with games like Eden and SSHD. Actually I love that, but all that extra content like maps. It's free on the PC, stop giving me BS on why it shouldn't be on a console. It really just pisses users off even more which in the end probably will lead to more pirates downloading games. As a recent example you can take Wipeout Pulse. In Pure ALL the DLC was free, and remember that was before the PSstore. Then the PSstore launches, and all of a sort you have to pay insane prices for something that no more than 2 years earlier was completely free of charge.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
I bought a few tracks of Rock Band DLC, but quit that once Rock Band 2 was confirmed to be disc-based annual sequel bullshit. Won't ever be purchasing DLC again for a retail game.
Hwang Seong-Gyeong
Banned
They are selling you skins of equal quality that modders have made hundreds of for pretty decent money, it's ridiculous. Most DLC is absolute crap.
Christoff Yurievich
Member
because every track offered via DLC so far is going to be on the RB2 disc. right.DjangoReinhardt said:
Kitschkraft
Member
Linkzg said:
Fixed, but mostly a great post.
Being unable to play a game that you paid money for online because you didn't buy the 10 dollar maps that came out afterwords is fucking ridiculous. The people that have the new maps should be the ones that are placed in a separate area, instead, what usually happens is that the people who don't want the extra shit are booted off their game.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
"They are selling you skins of equal quality that modders have made hundreds of for pretty decent money, it's ridiculous. Most DLC is absolute crap."
You keep trying to foolishly make a one size fits all statement about dlc and it's pretty stupid to do so. Some of the dlc is actually pretty well made, not overpriced, and enjoyable and yes obviously there is going to dlc that is crap it's kind of the nature of things. I think they'll start to understand when they see what people spend their money on.
You keep trying to foolishly make a one size fits all statement about dlc and it's pretty stupid to do so. Some of the dlc is actually pretty well made, not overpriced, and enjoyable and yes obviously there is going to dlc that is crap it's kind of the nature of things. I think they'll start to understand when they see what people spend their money on.
professor_t
Member
Linkzg said:
You forgot at least one category: DLC that requires payment at first but ultimately becomes free (a la Bungie's map packs).
I think this is one of the most sensible approaches (even though it still fragments the userbase).
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Because I should have to pay for songs I don't want on the disc in order to get the songs I do want. The engine disc should cost about $20, and I make my own setlist from there via DLC. Even charging $60 and giving me vouchers for DLC from the store is preferable.bune duggy said:
But keep defending anti-consumer tactics. Hey, do you know else is awesome? Text message prices!
Christoff Yurievich
Member
So you want an à la carte pricing structure? Interesting. I don't think they could convince the bands/management/labels to such an agreement because there aren't as many guaranteed sales via DLC as there is via disc.
and I'm defending anti-consumer tactics? I replied specifically to what you said about tracks on the disc vs. DLC. Thanks for changing what we were talking about.
as for text-message prices, I agree there. .5 minute debit to read or write a message? Outrageous, especially if you're one of those people who have to text every 2.3 minutes.
and I'm defending anti-consumer tactics? I replied specifically to what you said about tracks on the disc vs. DLC. Thanks for changing what we were talking about.
as for text-message prices, I agree there. .5 minute debit to read or write a message? Outrageous, especially if you're one of those people who have to text every 2.3 minutes.
Flakster99
Member
DjangoReinhardt said:
Good point.
Of course, a preset # of songs is key; using your example - 6 songs of your choosing for $10, 12 songs of your choosing for $20. This is something I can definitely get behind.
I like DLC. What some people don't take into account is that they compare horse armor (which you are an idiot if you buy, plus it's bugged). The GTA DLC is going to be an expansion pack. One thing is that I wish more DLC was free, but M$ wants monies. Really, only thing I consistantly buy is XBLA games and Map packs. Also, I wish there was matchmaking for Forge in Halo 3.
Also, sometimes, it costs a lot of money to make a game, and to cut the costs, they release more of the game. Here is the thing though. I haven't played a game where the copy felt "gimped" DLC is EXTRA, so they can charge for it. It adds life to the game. I think they should include more than 3 maps for $10, but considering the game only ships with like 10, it seems fair.
See, here is the thing about that, that pisses me off, but to me is like "These maps are coming out much later, but if you want to play them NOW, you have to pay.
Also, sometimes, it costs a lot of money to make a game, and to cut the costs, they release more of the game. Here is the thing though. I haven't played a game where the copy felt "gimped" DLC is EXTRA, so they can charge for it. It adds life to the game. I think they should include more than 3 maps for $10, but considering the game only ships with like 10, it seems fair.
See, here is the thing about that, that pisses me off, but to me is like "These maps are coming out much later, but if you want to play them NOW, you have to pay.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
I didn't change the subject. I am annoyed because the disc-based Rock Band 2 they announced meant that Rock Band wasn't going to be a platform. At worst, this should've been a "sell the razor cheap and get rich on the blades" situation. They've found a way to overcharge for both. A consumer-friendly approach would be to constantly patch older Rock Band discs and update the retail discs once a year (or whatever) so everyone is always playing the same Rock Band.bune duggy said:
Liara T'Soni said:
I don't even mind paying for the extra maps if the game is good and the new maps are quality offerings, but the fact remains that the player base will become fragmented into the haves and the have nots. So no matter you choose to buy or not buy the DLC, once the extra maps are out, the whole experience will automatically become worse due to the decreased user base within your segment.
If you're a completist and must have everything in a game.. i suggest you don't buy RockBand.
This is a bullshit argument for many reasons:
1) Most of the RB1 songs can be exported to RB2.
2) The DLC works on Both
3) The disc version of RB2 is probably $60.. which is 60 / 84 songs = 71 cents per song.. which is FAR cheaper than the $1.99 or so that most songs costs in the store
This is a bullshit argument for many reasons:
1) Most of the RB1 songs can be exported to RB2.
2) The DLC works on Both
3) The disc version of RB2 is probably $60.. which is 60 / 84 songs = 71 cents per song.. which is FAR cheaper than the $1.99 or so that most songs costs in the store
Nuclear Muffin
Banned
DjangoReinhardt said:
It is a platform though since all DLC music works with both games and you can copy all of your music from the RB1 disc into RB2.
RB2 is really being brought out to accomodate the drum kit expansion and to streamline the interface.
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
Are they patching RB1 with the features of RB2?koam said:
Are all of the songs on the RB2 disc going to be made available in the store for download? Are all of the songs on RB discs going forward going to be made available in the store for download? At the same price as they are available for on the disc?
71 cents for a song I don't want is 71 cents too much.
Christoff Yurievich
Member
what he said.koam said:
AwakenedCloud
Member
DjangoReinhardt said:
They're giving you 100 songs (84 on disc/20 free DLC songs) for 60 bucks and you're complaining?! Just be glad it isn't Namco or a different division of EA.
DjangoReinhardt said:
It sounds like you don't like how they're handling Rock Band as a "platform", which is understandable. But how does that lower the quality of Rock Band's DLC? You can stick with Rock Band 1 and still enjoy any new songs that are released as DLC. If the songs/features of Rock Band 2 aren't worth it to you, then you're not forced to upgrade.
If there's any DLC that I feel safe investing in, it's songs for Rock Band.
DjangoReinhardt said:
Then don't buy any music games period. It's not like there's been a major music game that allow you to do what you suggested.
What's next? A fighting game that cost $20 and let you buy the fighters that you want? $1 for a character that I don't play is $1 too much.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
"Are they patching RB1 with the features of RB2?
Are all of the songs on the RB2 disc going to be made available in the store for download? Are all of the songs on RB discs going forward going to be made available in the store for download? At the same price as they are available for on the disc?
71 cents for a song I don't want is 71 cents too much."
How did you bring yourself to buy the first one then? Or were all those songs just gold?
Are all of the songs on the RB2 disc going to be made available in the store for download? Are all of the songs on RB discs going forward going to be made available in the store for download? At the same price as they are available for on the disc?
71 cents for a song I don't want is 71 cents too much."
How did you bring yourself to buy the first one then? Or were all those songs just gold?
DjangoReinhardt
Thinks he should have been the one to kill Batman's parents.
The quality of the DLC is affected as soon as they tie songs exclusively to a disc iteration, or when songs have features that can only be accessed by purchasing the new version of the "platform". The only people who benefit from their platform model are EA and their shareholders. It is not good for consumers, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be better other than EA will gouge because they can get away with it.Struct09 said:
DjangoReinhardt said:
Point your anger in the right direction, MTVGames and Harmonix make the calls on DLC and licensing. EA just distributes (not publishes) and co-markets the game.
I don't see how it's unreasonable that there's songs on the RB2 disc that you can't get as DLC. Yeah, it kind of upsets their idea of a "platform", but they still have to sell copies and make money. As awesome as it would be to pay $20 for an upgrade to the base Rock Band 1 game, the fact is that it wouldn't sell as well as a disc-based sequel would. And it's just that - a sequel. A sequel where any DLC you bought for the first iteration has not gone to waste.
Hwang Seong-Gyeong said:
I agree with this somewhat because supply and demand doesn't exactly work the way people think it should in digital distribution. There are Call of Duty 2 maps that still cost money. How much have these sold in the past three months? Probably next to nothing, but it is a file sitting on a server, not a disc in a case taking up shelf space.
I bought the map packs that came out for Halo 3 and COD4 in April. In terms of time spent with either, the $10 for each was a drop in the bucket, but it gets annoying when I realize I've never played any of the H3 legendary maps outside of the specific DLC playlist, and people veto the COD4 maps they paid for just to end up with another incredibly boring game on Bloc.
I'm not going to buy additional content in multiplayer games again until I can actually chose what kind of map rotation I'd want to play on. That isn't going to happen until dedicated servers are used. So basically, that isn't going to happen.
There hasn't been any single player DLC I've been interested in yet. I'll see how the GTA IV content on 360 pans out. If it's a lot of space bucks for something that only equates to a few hours of game play, I'll pass.
This hardware cycle is full of "anti-consumer tactics" but the few enthusiast forum posters they put off are nothing compared to the number of people that put up with it. If it is making them more money, they don't care. The best you can hope for is good use of it rather than the completely indefensible crap (Soul Calibur 4).
jamesinclair
Banned
bune duggy said:
Because some people arent music elites and play through all the songs. And songs on a disk are less than half the price that the DLC songs are, + the entire engine.
104 songs for $60
or
104 DLC songs for $208
Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Even if I hate half the songlist, 52 songs for $60 is a better value than DLC.
And you know what, you cant know if youll like a song until you play it. Like it on radio doesnt always equal a good game song. And some songs make for awesome game songs even if youd never heard it before.
Example:
I had never heard "Pride and Joy" by Stevie Ray Vaughan before GH3. if it were on a DLC list, I probably wouldnt have bought it, but now its one of my favorite songs in GH3.
I was excited to play "Take this life" by In Flames because I love the band, but the song isnt very fun to play.
Son of Godzilla
Banned
DLC that's locked on disc but the disc sold at discount (Like Beautiful Katamari) = Good.
More games should be like this.
More games should be like this.
DjangoReinhardt said:
There are plenty of people on this thread with a lot of pointless and useless bitching.
I can start with those complaining of games going up $10 even though dev costs have skyrocketed, even though games have been at $50 for way too long considering inflation.
Gaming is a cheap hobby, not free, but cheap. Try cars, racing, golf, boating, the list goes on.
I had to point you out specifically because you are barking up the wrong tree. Rock Band is a platform. They can't just rely on 100% DLC, disks have to come out periodically. How about you hammer at Guitar Hero? They have band versions planned like crazy, DLC isn't compabitible between any of them. Then you have Rock Band which is insanely consumer friendly. All DLC is forwards and backwards compatible, you can import all of the old songs from RB1 and DLC all into a new game structure which will expand the benefits even more. They want to get 100 songs ready for release but can't so they will do 80 songs then offer 20 songs by xmas for free (this is so absurd IMO, I feel this must just be a rumor.)
Honesly if you want to bitch rail against horse armor. I am sick of all the whining around here for good things. Map packs have almost all went free after a few months..that is fine. Games go gold and DLC can start...they have plenty of time to work on things to have some ready at launch and it isn't a scam.
There is plenty of DLC which is useless and overpriced. But who cares? no one makes you buy it. I don't know, I agree stupid costumes and such should be free, but it isn't like there was some "good old days" that this happened in the console world.
Gbeav said:
Yeah, my scrip runs out in 09. When it runs out I'm fucking done too. I am sick and tired of the consoles. I have spent a lot of money this gen. I bought a new Pc and got plenty of games. MS needs to make some serious changes to the 360 business model. First and foremost, the thing needs to be 199 dollars for the pro.
Thing is, I am definately the Village Idiot. I bought everythin for the 360. Cost me over a grand.
Also started playing Conan and love it. For all the money I spend on Conan, at least I get my moneys worth. If I hadn't got a new PC I'd still be spending tons on 60 dollar games.
Those of you who complain about DLC that is already on the disc, in those particular instances, would you have actually been happier if that particular content HADN'T been on the disc in the first place?
I mean, it's one thing if the game itself feel incomplete, but if the game is complete, who the fuck cares where the DLC was located?
I'm opposed to nickel and diming DLC that makes you buy every new outfit seperately, etc., but the attitude of "the devs made it on a certain day, therefore I am ENTITLED to it" is just plain silly, because we are generally talking about things that, if they didn't exist in the first place, you never would have missed.
I mean, it's one thing if the game itself feel incomplete, but if the game is complete, who the fuck cares where the DLC was located?
I'm opposed to nickel and diming DLC that makes you buy every new outfit seperately, etc., but the attitude of "the devs made it on a certain day, therefore I am ENTITLED to it" is just plain silly, because we are generally talking about things that, if they didn't exist in the first place, you never would have missed.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
DLC is just another act of aggression in the open declaration of war on gamers that is this generation.
Just say "no" to this gen!
Just say "no" to this gen!
Son of Godzilla
Banned
DLC is fun. For the price of a processed meat on bread you can have some neat hats in a videogame. Who can say no?Segata Sanshiro said:
Gizmo_Monkey said:
That's what I was going to say...McDragon said:
I was expecting it to be small, and end being just an "unlock key"..but when I saw the over 100MB size, I was like..hmm..maybe there's "something" actually in there..
In my case, I don't mind..
If I want it..I download it..
If I don't..well, I don't..
Some people act like they are too weak..and just seeing "new downloadable content" makes them click and get that amount deducted from the credit card....just because it's there.
1) Most DLC is a complete and total ripoff
2) People are clearly buying the trash, and the gamerpics, and the content on the disc, and the day 1 DLC, or they wouldn't bother trying to sell it
3) Therefore we're fucked regardless of how we 'vote with our money'
4) I'm off to buy some NG2 gamerpics and SC4 costumes, WOOO. MS points aren't really money, so it's basically free
2) People are clearly buying the trash, and the gamerpics, and the content on the disc, and the day 1 DLC, or they wouldn't bother trying to sell it
3) Therefore we're fucked regardless of how we 'vote with our money'
4) I'm off to buy some NG2 gamerpics and SC4 costumes, WOOO. MS points aren't really money, so it's basically free
DjangoReinhardt said:
This is an INCREDIBLY narrow perspective of the rhythm game industry. It is used as a tool for introducing people to music that consumers may or may not have heard. If it wasn't for Rock Band 1 I wouldn't love Rush, The Who, Smashing Pumpkins, The Clash, Boston and The Cars as much as I do today. You can argue that everything should be suited to the user's preference, but then you lose the whole "introduce your senses to new sounds" appeal. Maybe your stubborn and feel your musical preferences are immune to new-found music introduced to you through a rhythm game?
Oh and for the record, I wouldn't be surprised if we never see Rock Band 3 (at least not for a few years). Harmonix is known for their "innovate and then perfect" approach. They had two games, FreQuency (2001) which innovated, and then Amplitude (2003) which perfected. This was followed by Guitar Hero I (2005) which innovated (greatly), and then Guitar Hero II (2006) which perfected the mechanics. They moved on to Rock Band (2007), which yet again proved to be innovative (by a massive titanic amount) and they are now completing this with Rock Band 2 (2008) which isn't much of a drastic change from the original game, but will be designed to perfect the system. Don't be surprised if the project after Rock Band 2 isn't Rock Band 3. We may not even see another Harmonix project till the next generation of consoles.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
GH: Rocks the 80's only perfected the perfection.