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I'm struggling to understand how anyone could prefer DKC2 over DKC1

how wrong is this?


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ScOULaris

Member
I've recently decided to start a playthrough of Donkey Kong Country 2 in order to try and better understand how a sizable proportion of DKC fans could ever put it above the original on SNES.

You see, I was blown away by the original DKC when it released in 1994. It was an extremely solid and inventive platformer that resurrected an underutilized IP in a big way and packaged it all together with some of the best graphics and sound of the 16-bit era. I played that game to death and can still remember every nook and cranny by heart. When DKC2 came out one year later, my initial excitement for a sequel to one of my favorite platformers dulled quickly once I got my hands on a demo unit in a local Target.

Maybe it was the absence of Donkey Kong, himself, or maybe it had something more to do with the shift in tone from the original... but for one reason or another it didn't grab me enough to where I would've asked for it that holiday season. Then years and multiple console generations went by, and on occasion I'd try out DKC2 and DKC3 via emulation to see what I had missed. Whenever I'd try DKC2, I was always left with the same impression: it just doesn't come together as well as its predecessor.

33505-Donkey_Kong_Country_(USA)-1.jpg
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So now I am committing myself to playing through the entire game before passing final judgment on it, and as I go I am slowly starting to understand more of the game's appeal with fans of the series.

Here are some places where I feel it has improved upon the original:

  • Difficulty: The original is very fluid, fun, and presents its fair share of challenges later on in the game, but DKC2 is a little harder on average with its level design. As a seasoned platformer veteran, I like this uptick in difficulty. Just the way a sequel should be.
  • Structure: I like how DKC2 expanded on the progression structure that was already there in DKC1 in some small, but clever ways. Collecting gold coins (that mercifully respawn after deaths) that can be used toward Swanky Kong's quizzes to earn extra lives is a smart addition, as are several of the other Kong relatives or deviations that you come across on the maps.
  • Boss Design: I've only fought three bosses so far in the game, but it's already clear that more thought went into designing these encounters than those from the original. The fight with the sentient pirate saber was particularly noteworthy, and I can see how this style of boss-fight design inspired Retro Studios when designing Returns and Tropical Freeze.
Now that I've got those out of the way, here are some areas where I feel that DKC2 is a step back from the greatness of the original and ultimately why I think it's an inferior sequel overall:

  • Music: Yes, David Wise is a genius composer and his work on the DKC series is peerless in the genre, but for my money his presence is much more felt in DKC1. Music seems to be comparatively sparse in DKC2, both in its usage and its composition. It seems like they were focusing more on atmosphere in DKC2, mixing in ambient sound effects from the environment during lulls in the more subdued tunes. DKC1's tracks are fewer, perhaps, but they are all top-notch and put front-and-center on every level.
  • Level Design: One could argue that Rare was more experimental with the level design in DKC2, and that's commendable in its own right. However I don't think that it paid off in a lot of cases, and the end-result is a game where some great levels get lost in the mix with a bunch of experimental ones that rely too much on verticality and don't allow as much for fun, fast platforming. This is all very subjective, of course, but that's my take on it.
  • Graphics: I'm sure a lot of you are gonna scratch your heads over this one, but in my eyes the first game looks better on the whole. I think some of the models were imported into the game's sprite assets at a higher resolution in DKC2, but the game runs at a slightly lower framerate than the original and some of its character/enemy designs seem to lack the polish of those from the first game. I can't put my finger on what it is, but some of the enemies (and friendly animal mounts) look like the bad kind of 90's CGI, whereas the early Silicon Graphics assets in DKC1 all still look great to my eyes.

So there you have it. Now my opinions could change by the time I'm finished with DKC2, but as of right now I believe I'm a little under halfway through.

I made this thread because I often seen DKC2 praised as the superior game in the original SNES trilogy on here, and I'd like to have some light shed on that as I play through the game fully for the first time. Maybe you all can shed some insight that will increase my appreciation for the game as I go.
 
-Better Music
-Better Collectibles (DK Coins)
-Better Level Design (debatable, but secrets were hid better)
-Lost World
-Better Boss Battles
-Better Mine Kart Stages

There's plenty of reasons.

DKC is a great game but DKC2 is the best game ever created.

EDIT: You may disagree with some of my points, but I would be surprised if anyone argued that DKC1 had better collectibles, boss battles, or music
 
Better more colorful graphics, the pirate theme of the game is more appealing than the island theme, more levels with more variety, more and better implemented secrets, better and more melodic music, dixie + hovering = win.

The original impressed me with the graphics and music, but the gameplay was too simple and basic. DKC2 improved all that.
 
I am absolutely with you, DKC2 was a let-down from DKC1 and on a side note I'm always stunned when people criticize DKC1. I recently re-played it with a buddy of mine and it was incredible. It's not quite SMW, but it is a fantastic game with great music and level design.
 
I prefer the game because obtaining the 102% was fun. Collecting the DK and Kremcoins was fun and unlocking the True Ending via the Lost World was an awesome feeling. I also vastly prefer playing as any Kong that isn't actually DK. That being said I still prefer DKC3.
 
I genuinely believe DKC2 bests the original in every area. Level design, music, bosses, animal buddies, secrets....you name it.

That being said, I have a very strong fondness for the original game, mainly due to nostalgia and the fact that it's such a basic, pick-up-and-play platformer. So much so that I might actually prefer it to its sequel...but a lot of that is the nostalgia talking.

But, let's be honest with ourselves for a moment....Retro's two DKC games are the best. :)
 
I have a hard time understanding how people view these games as a fun game period... Going back and replaying them, you have issues like severe hitbox problems, graphics that have not stood the test of time (aside from a few really impressive effects like the water levels in DKC2), and a difficulty curve that ramps up hard and never seems to get to a satisfying point like in Mario games.



In short: Everyone has opinions man.
 
DKC1 is a fine game but DKC2 really does surpass it in terms of collectables, level design, bosses, music, etc.

So yeah, gotta disagree with you there, OP.
 
I think it's up there with Uncharted 2 as one of gaming's greatest sequels. I mean, it's tough to think of an area where DKC2 doesn't improve on the original. Collision, level design, music, secret design, enemy design, boss fights, atmosphere, playable characters (Diddy/Dixie>DK/Diddy), level count, etc. It's the perfect sequel, my favorite SNES game, and one of the best 2D platformers ever with one of the best soundtracks ever and undoubtedly the best secrets ever.
 
All three games are actually very different and I like them all.

DKC definitely started spinning the wheel.

Personally I can't understand people liking DKCR, but we like different things I guess.
 
People secretly like grimdark stuff better than adventures in the jungle.

That's actually the exact reason why I prefer DKC2 over everything else and why I couldn't stand Returns/Tropical Freeze; it seems like Retro had zero interest in maintaining the atmosphere of the SNES titles.
 
Sticker Fucking Bush Symphony

DKC2 has better music overall, but some of the music doesnt really fit the stages for me.

For example, Lockjaw's Saga does not belong to a water level to me, just as much Stickerbrush does not fi Bramble Blast and it would fit way more in a water level in my opinion.

So in the matter of music fitting the stages I think DKC is better than DKC2
 
- Collision detection was much better.
- Dixie can fly.
- Greater diversity of gameplay mechanics thanks to variety of animal buddies and Dixie flying.
- Better graphics.
- Better music.
- Pirate theme is superior.
- No cheap bugs like a barrel hitting a secret entrance just barely out of screen and it not registering.
- Takes jabs at Sonic and Earthworm Jim.
- Longer.
- Secret world.
- Secret ending.
- World map not being a last-week-of-the-project rush job.
- Overall more polished experience. (For instance screen fades to black when you die instead of abruptly cutting to black. Just little touches like that everywhere).
 
This is like asking why people prefer Crash 2 over Crash 1. Mechanically, graphically, and musically its all flat out better and more interesting.

I replayed the entire trilogy recently and i can safely say even with gimmicks that dont work out in DKC3 id still rather play it over 1 because the polish is there.
 
DKC1 is just a straight-up bad game to me, honestly. Terrible level design that is overly simple and repetitive. Lazy bosses. Some of the worst hit detection in an era full of it. Enemies that appear out of nowhere with no time to react. Worthless secrets that are just copy-pasted. Dated visuals that look muddy. You get the drill.

DKC2 is a flat out masterful game. Easily one of the best titles on the SNES. How Rare managed to make such a massive improvement for the original is beyond me.
 
Music: Yes, David Wise is a genius composer and his work on the DKC series is peerless in the genre, but for my money his presence is much more felt in DKC1. Music seems to be comparatively sparse in DKC2, both in its usage and its composition. It seems like they were focusing more on atmosphere in DKC2, mixing in ambient sound effects from the environment during lulls in the more subdued tunes. DKC1's tracks are fewer, perhaps, but they are all top-notch and put front-and-center on every level.
DKC2 is probably my favorite game OST of all time. DKC1 is great as well but it's not even close to the greatness of the sequel IMO.

For me, DKC2 is the superior game, the only thing i don't like is Dixie. I prefer the Donkey + Diddy combo, plus i liked how at leas one of the characters was big and chunky. In DKC2 you have 2 characters that look very similar.
 
Aquatic Ambience vs. Stickerbush Symphony thread...

Aquatic Ambience is stupidly overrated despite how fantastic the song is. Its in DKC1, DKC3 GBA, Returns and Tropical Freeze.

Stickerbrush got a shitty Brawl remix and got squandered in Tropical Freeze because it doesnt even play on the bramble level.
 
I like DKC1 for what it is but I find it to be very rough around the edges. It feels more like the creators were proving they could do something technologically first and making a compelling game second, whereas by DKC2 they had already proven themselves and instead moved to create the best game they could out of the engine they had made.
 
DKC1 ranks dead last in my ranking of all the DKC games (Rare and Retro):

DCK2 = Tropical Freeze > DKCR >> DKC3 >>>>>>>>> DKC1

Even back when I was a kid, DKC1 felt like a half-baked prototype with fiddly controls and lame level design after playing DKC2 and DKC3.

Something I love about DKC2 is how each level feels different. You're not just going left to right, but in many levels you're also going right to left and climbing up and down (something perfectly encapsulated in the second level and pretty much every even-numbered level). The levels are designed around the acrobatic nimbleness of Diddy and Dixie, which feel so much tighter than the heroes did in DKC1.

Their handling, combined with enemies arranged for chain combos, puts you in a zen-like state as you flow through the levels. The gimmicks here were also the best Rare ever did — always fun and never unfair. And the DK Coins and Bonus Barrels are so much more rewarding to find than the secret rooms in DKC1.

Of course, all of the creative stuff is superior. Crocodile Isle is one of the most atmospheric places in videogames. I rank it up there with other great worlds like Bloodborne's Yharnam, BioShock Infinite's Columbia and BioShock's Rapture. Just wonderfully realized, and populated by a great cast of characters. And the music by David Wise! Possibly the best OST ever.

I could go on and on. DKC2 is to DKC1 like Empire Strikes Back is to A New Hope. Bigger and bolder... Darker, yet more heartfelt. An analogy I also use for Majora's Mask vs. Ocarina of Time.

*starts humming Forest Interlude and dreaming of a foggy moonlit forest*
 
I agree with you.


Also, in my eyes true graphics of DKC got progressively worse.


Maybe it was just my young ignorant eyes, but I remember thinking that at launch.
 
I mean there's nothing for me to add for team DKC2 that hasn't already been said, it's so much more well rounded.
The one point from the OP I can get is that DKC1 definitely has more stages that allow for easier to attain speedy play, like straight to the point run to the right jump n' roll.
 
DKC1 had better snow levels, I'll give it that. I love me a good snow level. Otherwise though, I think DKC2 has it soundly beat.
 
There's so much more depth in clever level exploration (and even some mechanics) in DKC2. The main reason I see DKC1 as worse is the plain level design. Most levels feel incredibly flat and too straight forward. Some have really interesting ideas, but boring execution. It feels like a game that nailed base mechanics down, but everything else feels more like a proof of concept. DKC2 feels like they took the concept and made it a "finished game." The only part of DKC1 where I thought it was both really clever in idea and actually nails the execution is the final boss, whereas every time I play through DKC2 I'm constantly thinking "damn, the way they pulled that off is really clever" all throughout.

I like DKC1 for what it is but I find it to be very rough around the edges. It feels more like the creators were proving they could do something technologically first and making a compelling game second, whereas by DKC2 they had already proven themselves and instead moved to create the best game they could out of the engine they had made.

DKC1 is just a straight-up bad game to me, honestly. Terrible level design that is overly simple and repetitive. Lazy bosses. Some of the worst hit detection in an era full of it. Enemies that appear out of nowhere with no time to react. Worthless secrets that are just copy-pasted. Dated visuals that look muddy. You get the drill.

DKC2 is a flat out masterful game. Easily one of the best titles on the SNES. How Rare managed to make such a massive improvement for the original is beyond me.

Pretty much these (though I do feel DKC1 is an ok game)
 
I played them properly for the first time recently and I think 2 is undoubtedly better. The level design is more fun and less annoying, the music is so much better and while 1 had outstanding visuals, I felt like 2's were more creative. So much of 1 felt like it was about firing yourself out of barrels over bottomless pits and the collision detection felt weird. 2 had that as well for sure, but they were regulated to the levels with Stickerbush Symphony so it balances out.
 
DKC1 was the first game I ever owned and the first one I finished by myself, so it holds a very special place in my heart. I believed for a long time that it was better than the sequel too, but as a kid I never got to beat DKC2, and I only managed as an adult. And it wasn't until then that I really started to appreciate why 2 is so widely revered.

I hate the notion that DKC1 is "objectively bad", but I have to admit its level design is only serviceable with some exceptions where it's pretty good. Meanwhile I think 2 is legitimately one of the finest platformers ever and surpasses the original in every possible way. I mean, okay, one very specific thing DKC1 has over it is its final boss music, but that's about it.

I think DKC1's graphics haven't aged all that well either. Character sprites look great but the backgrounds look really 'artificial', like I see them and think "well those are pre-rendered BGs alright" while DKC2's stages look very convincing and 'alive', it's really impressive.

DKC2 felt extremely inventive too in comparison, there's a lot of variety in the stages with a couple of gimmicks here and there without ever feeling like anything but a fine platformer, which is impressive. Same with the music, it feels more experimental and I think there's not a single track in the game that I don't consider impressive, and Wise nailed the feel of every stage in such a precise way with the tracks that it gives every level a great sense of atmosphere. It's simply incredible.

I could go on all day but yeah. DKC1 is not bad by any means, but 2 is simply leagues ahead from it and a lot of platformers out there.
 
DKC1 blew my damn face off when I got it in '94. One of my favorite games ever. Never got into 2 or 3 though, for some reason. As a kid I think the lack of Donkey Kong was a big selling point.

I got DKC1 and KI for Christmas that year. I think that was my best Christmas ever, video game wise.
 
DKC1 is far superior in my opinion. The music and atmosphere are incredible. Fucking love it.
 
DKC1 has artificial difficulty because the monsters take about half second to spawn when the screen scrolls. So by the time you see it, there's a good chance you're already unable to dodge.

For this reason alone I prefer DKC2.
 
Prefer dkc1 as well. My problem with dkc 2 is the same problem i have with crash 3 - too much emphasis on mini games. I liked dkc 1 and crash 2 best in both series for how straight forward they are.
 
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