Support NeoGAF

[Jawmuncher]

If I had to play BOTW without a map, that game would go straight into the trash. To me, this argument is like "is using gps cheating". The only time I'd say maybe is if you use it for a game that has no map feature, and you have to use an outside source. But even that in my book is stretching it. Since 90% of the time, the game will be about player skill and not knowing where to go.

 

[leng jai]

This premise doesn't make any sense since the vast majority of games are designed around the fact that players have access to a map.

 

[SanSebastian]

I thought about this as well.
It's maybe just not that challenging.

In order to keep a map with quest-markers out, they would need to revamp their quest-system.

Say, instead of saying "Can you kill that monster for me?" and then the location is put on the map, you get informations about the area. "It's near the waterfall under the city." And then you would have to look for hints and marks.

Would make players focus more on the surroundings and the actual world.

But i don't know if it would actually be more fun or rather a pain in the ass.

 

[ConfirmationBiased]

If there's a map, it's probably there for a reason.

I will say though, drawing a map by hand can be a lot of fun. Especially makes exploring new Minecraft worlds more interesting. It doesn't matter if it's not accurate as long as it FEELS accurate. Like a medieval map.

 

[Qasiel]

Yeah, it's not cheating if it's part of the game design. I wouldn't even call it cheating if you made your own map (or notes) if you feel the game necessitates it.

 

[Cleve]

Using the sheika slate in any way is cheating. Magnesis, Cryonis, all cheats. Jumping and climbing also cheats.

 

[depths20XX]

What the fuck is up with some of these questions on here lately? Is using a basic game feature cheating? Did you even think about that before posting?

 

[mieumieu]

I play my RPGs with a steering wheel.

LGR played GTAV with a pinball controller

And Doom with a pool cue controller

What the fuck is up with some of these questions on here lately? Is using a basic game feature cheating? Did you even think about that before posting?

Basically if you are not a masochist you are cheating in life.

 

[SCB3]

Well Maps are a real life thing, so no, I don't consider them to be cheating

 

[Giftofgab24]

A game with slightly inaccurate or "blurry" maps would be an interesting experiment.

Nier: Automata. There's actually some script making a joke about it. I don't know where the hell I am half the time. Amazing game though.

 

[L.O.R.D]

Irrelevant to the thread but the bolded made me think of my uncle who is very old school i.e. not good with technology and says uses the word "cheating" when I use Google maps to get to a destination.

also irrelevant to this thread,but if i ask people for a place,will that also be considered a cheating?

 

[franklyshankly]

I thought about this as well.
It's maybe just not that challenging.

In order to keep a map with quest-markers out, they would need to revamp their quest-system.

Say, instead of saying "Can you kill that monster for me?" and then the location is put on the map, you get informations about the area. "It's near the waterfall under the city." And then you would have to look for hints and marks.

Would make players focus more on the surroundings and the actual world.

But i don't know if it would actually be more fun or rather a pain in the ass.

Many old games were already like this. I played wow like this for years until they updated the map and quests system. To me it was definitely just a pain in the ass and people developed location mods and websites to look up exactly where to find stuff instead of spending 30 minutes wandering aimlessly so it didn't even have the effect that you mentioned.

 

[elixia]

I thought about this as well.
It's maybe just not that challenging.

In order to keep a map with quest-markers out, they would need to revamp their quest-system.

Say, instead of saying "Can you kill that monster for me?" and then the location is put on the map, you get informations about the area. "It's near the waterfall under the city." And then you would have to look for hints and marks.

Would make players focus more on the surroundings and the actual world.

But i don't know if it would actually be more fun or rather a pain in the ass.

it's definitely the latter

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

I wouldn't say they are cheating, I mean some games are bloody massive these days and we would never find anything without a map.

 

[jet1911]

I thought about this as well.
It's maybe just not that challenging.

In order to keep a map with quest-markers out, they would need to revamp their quest-system.

Say, instead of saying "Can you kill that monster for me?" and then the location is put on the map, you get informations about the area. "It's near the waterfall under the city." And then you would have to look for hints and marks.

Would make players focus more on the surroundings and the actual world.

But i don't know if it would actually be more fun or rather a pain in the ass.

Ever played Morrowind? Quests were exactly like that.

 

[Famassu]

Of course not. Maps are used for navigation. Maps have useful information like, say, the locations of things. Of course it's nice to have SOME things be more vague and require some exploration and using ones brains a bit more, but not everything needs to be hidden behind more or less obscure hints.

 

[jimboton]

I thought about this as well.
It's maybe just not that challenging.

In order to keep a map with quest-markers out, they would need to revamp their quest-system.

Say, instead of saying "Can you kill that monster for me?" and then the location is put on the map, you get informations about the area. "It's near the waterfall under the city." And then you would have to look for hints and marks.

Would make players focus more on the surroundings and the actual world.

But i don't know if it would actually be more fun or rather a pain in the ass.

nah, who wants a potentially interesting quest about using your wits to hunt a monster haunting the city's underbelly when you can just race to a marker in the minimap kill whatever, get your xpees, check another entry of your questlog and be done in all of 5 minutes. You don't want to waste your time just looking at the scenery for stuff when you could be making progress! That's just for masochists ..

 

[kswiston]

I can see not wanting to use the mini map built into the the HUD, but no map at all? How many hundreds of hours would it take to beat BotW? What the hell would you do if you get stuck in a ravine? Reload from an earlier save?

The game world is monsterously huge.

 

[HK-47]

A game with slightly inaccurate or "blurry" maps would be an interesting experiment.

The GOAT Thief games do this with their maps. If Garret or the contractor dont have a good idea of the layout of the area you are trying to infiltrate it will be less detailed. Thief's use of maps is one of its subtle brilliant elements other games just totally ignored.

 

[shmoglish]

Today in "Questions only Neogaf can ask...."

 

[entremet]

I think this is where the all Souls all the time obsession goes wrong.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

What the heck of course not.

Please let me know what these valid points for using a game mechanic being considered cheating are.

This.

 

[Hairsplash]

In game maps do not shown everything. They record the places you have gone. Consider Horizon Zero Dawn or GTAV's map...

It is not cheating.

 

[Unaha-Closp]

Using any and all things implemented by the people who make a game into their game cannot be classified as cheating. It's like saying using your eyes to see is cheating at life - damn you Evolution for giving us eyes. If they put in a map they put it in for use. I may not be seeing the nuance I grant you if you think it is.

 

[Jacobson]

i'd totally get lost in any game without a map.

 

[andymcc]

I mean, even the original LOZ had mini maps for dungeons as part of HUD.

In addition to towers, camera hints and food buffs, did BOTW also invent sanctioned cheating?

In game maps do not shown everything. They record the places you have gone. Consider Horizon Zero Dawn or GTAV's map...

It is not cheating.

And in GTA and BOTW, the maps are blank until you actually visit the areas...

 

[Zen_Arcade]

"couple days", not "days".

Cheating was the wrong word here, I guess. But while the maps do help with progress, it takes away a bit of the excitement of finding something on your own by exploring.

A couple days is in fact days.

You don't have to use a map if you feel that it somehow spoils exploration, but I feel like you're probably in the minority there and it's not cheating in any way.

 

[SmokedMeat]

A map isn't cheating. Even the original game gave you a map.

People who feel a map is cheating shouldn't be using any sort of "lock on" abilities when playing nor should they use the camera to check out their surroundings that might normally be obscured by one's vision.

 

[score01]

Op this doesn't make any sense. A map is a tool the creators of the game provide you with. How can using it ever be considered cheating? What next? Using the action button in an action game?

 

[HK-47]

A map isn't cheating. Even the original game gave you a map.

People who feel a map is cheating shouldn't be using any sort of "lock on" abilities when playing nor should they use the camera to check out their surroundings that might normally be obscured by one's vision.

In fact isnt a third person camera kinda cheating? It lets you see much more than Link should be able to see.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

"Is the fact that you can magically carry 76 items at a time including weapons, shields, armor and food considered cheating?"

 

[foltzie1]

Is a compass and a Rand McNally map cheating in real life?

 

[Belker]

Not cheating if it's in the game, but maps can alter the way we play.

The Ghost Recon WildlandsGAF Xbox group has this discussion whenever someone new comes into a game with us. First we state that we're playing on hardest difficulty - and then we say the minimap is off, but markers are on.

Markers allow you to spot and tag an enemy so there's an alertness indicator above their head (and class type).

The size of this indicator doesn't seem to change a great deal at different distances, so there can still be some ambiguity in an enemy's location in terms of depth in a enemy base - how far in they are. The marker gives a better idea of their vertical and lateral position.

So why not the minimap? Because then we'd have complete information. We'd see the markers andenemies as orange map-dots in our immediate surounding, whether they're in the room ahead or on the corner of a building.

Because Wildlands can be played in various ways - action, stealth, planned, freeform - we're settling on a HUD that has the best rules for the way we want to play at that moment. I think it could feel a little bit like cheating if we decided to play in a certain way, but enabled map information that wasn't in that spirit.

Of course the issue is that by removing the minimap we lose access to its compass. We're also forced to try call our position by describing buildings and locations, but many of which feel like generic assets - which is why having a minimap with buildings only would be useful.

I think that would support our desire for careful, planned, gameplay against difficult enemies, and give us just enough information to play smoothly.

 

[Devilgunman]

"Is the fact that you can magically carry 76 items at a time including weapons, shields, armor and food considered cheating?"

Yes, and people whine like a baby when Fallout punishes them with over-encumbrance. I can't imagine the outcry when an open-world game has no map.