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[Regulus Tera]

But Dead Rising is one of my favorite games this gen. I HAVE to support the sequel.

Either that or buy Civ 5.

Oh who am I kidding? I don't have time for games anymore.

The time you spend on gaf could be used to finish one game every two weeks.

 

[EXGN]

Wow, I'm surprised at the backlash.

I mean, I understand that Capcom's strategy may not be the most effective, but I don't entirely disagree with his assertion. Japan, with exception of Nintendo (and lets be real, having 30 years of brand recognition is an asset no other developer has), has largely become irrelevant.

I'm blanking on Japanese titles that have performed exceedingly well in the global market - oh wait, Capcom's Resident Evil 5 and Street Fighter IV.

 

[Canova]

I don't think Western developers feel that way. Plus he's not the first Japanese developer to mirror these sentiments.

This is like Japanese in the 18th-19th century all over again, they want to be like the West. It's sickening. The reason we fell in love with their games, is because they offer different flavors than what we already have here.

 

[Dennis]

But those platforms are, by and large, enormous moneysinks.

So everyone involved in this business, west and east are just complete idiots who can't make money on the consoles? Developers come and go, yet publishers stay generation after generation of losing money? I see nothing that indicates Activision, EA, Ubi, etc are going to give up consoles and focus on handhelds. What do you know that they don't?

 

[Regulus Tera]

I am at work.

If you have time to browse gaf you have time to play a handheld.

Ps you should get back to work.

 

[Sipowicz]

Why do they? Why can't western "hardcore" gamers play portables?

this

there have been some standout titles from western developers in recent years such as dead space and bioshock definitely. At the same time there's been some amazing japanese games like persona, dragon quest, layton, peacewalker and super mario galaxy. Dont discount them because a the ignorant cunts who pose as videogame journalists in america do. If you should ignore anything it's the shitty, retarded ramblings of the peopla at G4 or gameinformer.

japanese titles stagnating? have you fucking played a western game recently? the vast, VAST majority of them have incorporated shooting. shit they've put shooters into shooters so you can shoot while you shoot

 

[Pureauthor]

So everyone involved in this business, west and east are just complete idiots who can't make money on the consoles?

Well, I wouldn't say everyone, but yeah, most of them apparently have no idea how to run a business, as evidenced by the fact that they are losing lots and lots of money.

Developers come and go, yet publishers stay generation after generatin of losing money? I see nothing that indicates Activision, EA, Ubi, etc are going to give up consoles and focus on handhelds. What do you know that they don't?

Generation after generation nothing. The problem has only hit full force this generation (although the symptoms have always been present to anyone paying attention) in that development costs are simply too large to support the blockbuster model that the industry runs on.

 

[jetsetfluken]

Inafune is a wise man. Not sticking his head in the sand but rather acknowledging there is a problem and trying to call attention to it.

Japan is falling further and further behind on the HD consoles. What will happen next gen? They HAVE to change.

Why can't they just continue to do what they did best in the PS2 generation and before? Why should they attempt something they don't know how to approach, something half-assed just to kiss up to Western gamer's because their attention spans and open-minds have been sealed shut thanks to this generation's introduction of standardized broadband online play and shooter monopoly?

I think this generation has been a big change from the others, it's the first where many people (the casual shooter fans) are playing online games, and the same ones at that, every day. It's still sort of a novelty to these types, but what about the future?
By 2013 and beyond (next generation), will this novelty still keep their attention?

This generation has seen birth to the casual monopoly of short burst gameplay, but will that keep their attention? How long until they start craving genuine gameplay experiences again? The same people who extensively played the big RPG's of the PS1 and PS2 era have transformed into the drones who sit in front of console Call of Duty every day.

I think JP should ignore trying to be something else, and re-focus on getting that "magic" back that we saw in early 2000's and before. Since then, big JP developers have split paths, things have dwindled, all in an attempt to 'catch up', or more importantly because of trying to target demographics that essentially don't know what they want. Many Western gamers didn't know or care whether MGS2 or Gran Turismo 3 were developed by Americans or Japanese, they bought it in truckloads because of what they offered. These are types of games that were not developed with the intention of trying to target a specific market. This is what needs to be brought back, this is part of that "magic" that's been lost in JP developers - the instance that there is no "target" demographic to be catered to or things to be watered down to appeal to one side or the other. The main goal needs to be making games with that special touch again, a touch that Western games, the ones they are trying to cater to solely for sales and attention back as the prime region developer, lack. There's a certain magic of JP developed games that Western ones just don't deliver this gen; this gen we are seeing many "disposable" experiences, ones that are talked about for the week of release then forgotten for the next big thing. Remember the legacy that so many of the AAA JP games last generation and before had?
Connections need to be made, studios re-grouped, or key JP people connected, an ideal situation is something like Platinum Games - grouping together multiple key members from now abandoned studios that produced some of the most interesting games of the last two generations.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Wow, I'm surprised at the backlash.

I mean, I understand that Capcom's strategy may not be the most effective, but I don't entirely disagree with his assertion. Japan, with exception of Nintendo (and lets be real, having 30 years of brand recognition is an asset no other developer has), has largely become irrelevant.

I'm blanking on Japanese titles that have performed exceedingly well in the global market - oh wait, Capcom's Resident Evil 5 and Street Fighter IV.

What's your definition of exceedingly well? RE5 tells me you're setting that bar really high, SF4 tells me you're setting it pretty low.

 

[InfiniteNine]

This is like Japanese in the 18th-19th century all over again, they want to be like the West. It's sickening. The reason we fell in love with their games, is because they offer different flavors than what we already have here.

Yes, the diversity really invigorated consoles last gen! I had both slices of the pie with a variation of titles in between, but not everyone is rushing to make the same damn thing. I'm pretty sure I don't need 8 different shooters for my consoles, and I don't need someone overseas trying to pander to that same demographic where they will clearly be beaten out by the competition.

 

[badcrumble]

Segata thank you for the term "westaboo" because I'm definitely going to be using that.

 

[Sipowicz]

Generation after generation nothing. The problem has only hit full force this generation (although the symptoms have always been present to anyone paying attention) in that development costs are simply too large to support the blockbuster model that the industry runs on.

I think that certain western publishers will be savvy with the 3DS as they've been savvy with the Wii and invest money in decent stuff. But others like take 2 and EA will flood it shovelware and shit iphone versions of multiplatform games. hell it's already started

 

[Regulus Tera]

bubububut what about my hd

3D will take the focus away from HD.

But hey be happy you got a job.

 

[Wallach]

What's your definition of exceedingly well? RE5 tells me you're setting that bar really high, SF4 tells me you're setting it pretty low.

Are they that different in sales? I thought SF4 was over 3 million.

 

[Windom Earle]

Inafune, no matter what bullshit you say I will always love you.

Unlike Kudo.

 

[Urban Scholar]

bubububut what about my hd

Oh sir, that ship has set sail remember?

 

[Wazzim]

This is like Japanese in the 18th-19th century all over again, they want to be like the West. It's sickening. The reason we fell in love with their games, is because they offer different flavors than what we already have here.

What? No that's not true. We bought their games because they were about the only good ones on consoles/handhelds, PC gamers never really played jpn games because the western ones were good already on PC.

 

[Blackace]

This is like Japanese in the 18th-19th century all over again, they want to be like the West. It's sickening. The reason we fell in love with their games, is because they offer different flavors than what we already have here.

I thought the reason was because they controlled the console market for so long you had little choice in the matter...


Now that console games are getting wrpgs and other western games my personally gaming library has very little games from Japan in it and I live here

 

[Urban Scholar]

Explain.

Oh sorry, I was making jest of Japanese market output on handhelds vs HD console titles.

 

[Urban Scholar]

Now that console games are getting wrpgs and other western games my personally gaming library has very little games from Japan in it and I live here

Interesting, I looked at my library( 6 or so~) across my 2 consoles and all of them are Japanese games. I know it wasn't initial on my part but it maybe accounted for by my niche taste in gaming.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I mean, first of all, I reject the notion that Nintendo doesn't count. People only want to leave them out because they are a crippling blow to the argument. But okay, non-Nintendo Japanese games which I feel have done well (let's say 1.5 million+?) outside Japan this generation:

Deca Sports
Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition
Cooking Mama: Cook-Off
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Metal Gear Solid 4
Resident Evil 5
Street Fighter 4
Final Fantasy XIII
Soul Calibur 4
Dead Rising
Lost Planet
Devil May Cry 4
Cooking Mama
Mario & Sonic at the Summer Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games
Sonic Rush
Sonic Unleashed
Cooking Mama 2
Professor Layton and the Curious Village
Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days

And that is, again, leaving out Nintendo, which is basically the same as leaving out Activision and Take Two JUST BECAUSE.

 

[tino]

But Dead Rising is one of my favorite games this gen. I HAVE to support the sequel.

Either that or buy Civ 5.

Oh who am I kidding? I don't have time for games anymore.

I am with you I can not say no to Dead Rising 2. DR is probably still my favorite game of this generation.

To pay for my sin I must physically stop two people from buying DmC.

 

[Pureauthor]

I mean, first of all, I reject the notion that Nintendo doesn't count. People only want to leave them out because they are a crippling blow to the argument. But okay, non-Nintendo Japanese games which I feel have done well (let's say 1.5 million+?) outside Japan this generation:

Deca Sports
Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition
Cooking Mama: Cook-Off
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Metal Gear Solid 4
Resident Evil 5
Street Fighter 4
Final Fantasy XIII
Soul Calibur 4
Dead Rising
Lost Planet
Devil May Cry 4
Cooking Mama
Mario & Sonic at the Summer Olympic Games
Mario & Sonic at the Winter Olympic Games
Sonic Rush
Sonic Unleashed
Cooking Mama 2
Professor Layton and the Curious Village
Kingdom Hearts: 358/2 Days

And that is, again, leaving out Nintendo, which is basically the same as leaving out Activision and Take Two JUST BECAUSE.

You can't count Mario & Sonic at the _____ Olympic Games because they totally have Mario in the title!

 

[charlequin]

it seems like he has some sense of the general picture.

Well, except for the part where several companies who focus on handheld games oriented towards Japanese tastes are consistently profitable via that route despite the smaller size of the Japanese market, while almost all the publishers in the world who are oriented primarily towards the Western-style big-budget HD blockbusters are losing money every quarter due to the insane costs and highly polarized market associated with that style of development.

You only have to look at your current gen games collection to know something has definitely changed for Japanese game developers. In the old days (PS1/PS2) the majority of my games cames came from Japan, now it's the other way round.

People keep citing this as if it's in some way descriptive of truths about "Japan" and "the West" when it's actually descriptive of platform changes. This generation (after flirting with it on the OG Xbox) huge swaths of previously PC-only Western developers have become console-primary developers who put all their work out on PS360; simultaneously, tons of Japanese console developers have refocused their efforts on handhelds. Unsurprisingly, the result is that PS360 have a far lower proportion of ultra-popular Japanese games than previous consoles did.

My 360 collection is certainly far more tilted towards Western games than my PS2 collection was. I could draw some nebulous conclusion about the relative strengths of Japanese and Western development from that... or I could look over at the stack of 40+ Japanese-developed games for DS sitting next to them and see that focusing on one sliver of the market to the exclusion of others will produce a flawed perspective.

He should call you kitty.

Segata's lease doesn't allow cats.

Why? The West certainly isn't trying to appeal to everyone like Nintendo.

Yeah, that's what's funny to me about this conversation every time. "Japanese developers should appeal to everyone... including us Americans! And Western developers should... appeal to us Americans!" With no reference to appealing to any other portion of "everyone," of course.

 

[LyR]

“Japanese developers tend to work on inspiration, not so much on a set time schedule like the Americans,” Mr. Mikami said in an interview. “So when EA asked about the game month after month, we felt like loan sharks were coming after us.”

:lol

I love Mikami.

yea ... that's why games like Yakuza feel and play like last gen games (may I say clunky ?!)

and then this technology masterpieces like MGS4 with installations every chapter and then still somehow manages to have tons of loading screens ... the good ones like GT5 are the vast minority

inspiration !

 

[Vic]

Capcom is finally putting serious resources into the handheld market with their other series which aren't named Monster Hunter. If they're really aiming to internationalize their products offering, they'll have a better chance to succeed at it with the handhelds than on the HD consoles.

 

[Tiktaalik]

On my run just now I was trying to think of the reverse situation, if I was tasked with creating a game designed to appeal to the Japanese audience. It's quite difficult. It's hard not to just cut corners and simply design something you'd like, and so very quickly one can see how these Japanese/Western fusion titles often have only superficial changes to the games (ie. adding a big muscular guy).

I mean the first thing that popped into my head for this Japanese game was to add in an overwought inventory system. Yes that's in lots of Japanese games, but I'm sure it's not the key thing that's driving sales.

 

[Vinci]

And that is, again, leaving out Nintendo, which is basically the same as leaving out Activision and Take Two JUST BECAUSE.

I continue to love how developers and publishers alike look at Nintendo as some sort of magical kingdom in which wizards and ladies in the lake frolic and create wondrously successful titles from fucking pixie dust. It's been one of the more entertaining and frustrating aspects of this generation.

 

[Sadist]

Damn Inafune you arrogant prick.

Just take the train from Osaka to Kyoto. Problem solved.

 

[Owzers]

I don't want developers to migrate to handhelds really, atleast not with games that play better with controllers. I'm tired of game reviewers finding a polite way to say " it would play better with a controller." I can't picture western shooter devs looking forward to migrating their games to a one nub handheld.

 

[TreIII]

Just read Segata's Little Mermaid spoof and :lol!

Same here. Inafune is definitely a "poor and unfortunate soul". :lol :lol

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Same here. Inafune is definitely a "poor and unfortunate soul". :lol :lol

The only question is, which version of the Little Mermaid is he in, the Disney one or the original? Will he marry his handsome Western Prince, or will he turn into foam?

Spoiler

I had a follow-up song, a take-off of "Under the Sea" called "In the J-P" as sung to Inafking by Kamiya, but I don't want to abuse the joke.

 

[Vinci]

I don't want developers to migrate to handhelds really, atleast not with games that play better with controllers. I'm tired of game reviewers finding a polite way to say " it would play better with a controller." I can't picture western shooter devs looking forward to migrating their games to a one nub handheld.

Then we need reviewers who don't judge them in that way, but rather whether they are good in and of themselves. Of course that's what friends and family members are for - which seems to be the latest trend thanks to Nintendo. So, yeah... my point has been made for me by reality.

 

[jetsetfluken]

Just popped onto Capcom-Unity's site and first thing I saw was "FIRE Keiji Inafune" in the suggestion box. :lol

And one thing that stood out:

Platinum Games should be hired so they can make Devil May Cry 5 and scrap DMC with Ninja Theory. As for Keiji Inafune, as much as I want him out of Capcom, if that seems a little harsh, atleast change his post. Him at research and development makes him a large part of the decision making and direction. Keiji doesnt have a clue about what fans want. He doesnt know his iconic characters are loved like Dante, X and Volnutt. X and Volnutt were already not getting new games and now he's destroyed Dante too. If this game doesnt sell well, Capcom will stop making Devil may Crys too the way Onimusha is dead.

The truth hurts. Now we all understand the fate of why there has been no Onimusha games this gen.

 

[Dennis]

Just popped onto Capcom-Unity's site and first thing I saw was "FIRE Keiji Inafune" in the suggestion box. :lol

Weeaboos sure can get butthurt.

 

[djtiesto]

As someone who almost exclusively plays Japanese games, and has stopped paying attention to the west, I echo others sentiments that you should "stick to what you know". I love how people constantly say Japan is dying and isn't innovating, yet they choose to ignore the DS and PSP (or even niche HD console releases like Valkyria Chronicles and Resonance of Fate). So a Japanese dev doesn't want to spend $50 million on their game? It's probably for the best considering how often I hear about western studios closing down because the single game they were banking on to be a hit failed in the marketplace. Or because business considerations mean you are pretty much forced to make an FPS because "that's what sells". (hell even western RPGs have been getting FPS/shooter elements shoehorned in).

Sticking to the handhelds and reasonable budgets is very smart, especially in these days of a shrinking Japanese gaming marketplace (and demographic troubles)... this is much more preferable IMO than desperately trying to force western aesthetics and gameplay on your titles to try and make it big over in the west. Though one thing that I agree with Inafking on is about trying to push into the Chinese/Korean markets. From what I've gathered, other Japanese media is popular over there, and Japanese products seem like they would resonate well over there with an effective-enough push (though of course there is shit like piracy to deal with). Hell look at Korean console development, in its start 90% of the games were total ripoffs of Japanese products

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Weeaboos sure can get butthurt.

So can Westaboos. Stop acting like there's a difference.

 

[The Technomancer]

Spoiler

I had a follow-up song, a take-off of "Under the Sea" called "In the J-P" as sung to Inafking by Kamiya, but I don't want to abuse the joke.

That's fine, just thinking of that made me :lol

 

[ElFly]

Outsourcing isn't going to help japanese developers now, because all the western outsourcing companies left are, at best, mediocre.

If they think their development process is at fault, they should lift some high level managers/designers/producers from the west, and put them on charge of their japanese teams.

 

[brandonh83]

song

my god. sometimes when I'm driving and get bored I start singing this shit. now I'm going to have to memorize these new, superior lyrics. little mermaid treasure trove song ftw.

errr maybe I should have put this in one of those confessional threads.

 

[charlequin]

That's fine, just thinking of that made me :lol

Inafking it's beastly / where it ain't east-ly / take it from meeeeee

 

[TreIII]

The only question is, which version of the Little Mermaid is he in, the Disney one or the original? Will he marry his handsome Western Prince, or will he turn into foam?

Unless the likes of Ono and Takeuchi are truly Inafune's "Flounder" and "Sebastian" respectively, I think the best thing Inafune can hope for is to become a "child of the air". :lol

Spoiler

I had a follow-up song, a take-off of "Under the Sea" called "In the J-P" as sung to Inafking by Kamiya, but I don't want to abuse the joke.

[/QUOTE]

DO EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET.

 

[A Twisty Fluken]

[]http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t67/SegataSan/355923-inafune_large.jpg[/IMG]
(Maybe GAF's right. Maybe there is something the matter with me. But I just don't see how a region that makes such wonderful things could be bad.)

little merawesomeness

<3

 

[V_Arnold]

And here we are again.
West vs East.
Japanese "appeal" vs. Western "appeal".

I have a theory: it is all about the intrusion.
I have a Halo Reach box next to me. The huge blockbuster has a few soldiers in its cover. It does not matter if I prefer french army over the US Navals - and it does not matter if my favorite hairstyle is more extravagant than the new Dante's. If I prefer to play with an action game, and want to jump into the action, chances are I will have no problem playing with Halo Reach. Or Killzone 2. Or Call of Duty. Or Bad Company, for that matter.

Point is: these games are non-intrusive games. You do not have to say "dumb". No! Not dumb, but quite the opposite: intelligently designed so they do not put up a barrier to the players, limiting their userbases to only those who like the design of their world or their main characters. Japanese games, imho, are much much more intrusive. Somone posted that games from this gen have yet to present better stories than ICO/SOTC. Are you high? Are you insane? It is as niche as it can get. Maybe not as niche, as that would be Killer 7. But the point is: japanese developers were always ready to create strong visuals, strong and unique themes. Problem is, that if you dwell into the non-mainstream, you wont get 2+ million sales easily. Hell, even with Bayonetta, they had to have such an excellent game engine for everyone in hack'n'slash genre to love their game. They dug up all the bullshit they could find inside Platinum Games's studio to create that "story", and still, the game was so good by itself that it did not even matter.

Capcom, Crapcom, Capgod or Crapgod aside - Resident Evil is the perfect example of how to do a non-intrusive game. You are a human. Zombies come. You shoot them down. It does not matter if you get why Wesker became crazy, all you need to really know is that HIS eyes are glowing, yours do not - therefore you will most likely have to kill him at some point. That is what makes it easy for any person not growing up with animes and manga series to accept what is presented to him/her. Same goes with Gran Turismo. Biggest driving franchise in the world. Cars, driving - that cannot be stylized enough (Auto Modellista, omg...) to make it feel like an alien world for anyone in the west who likes cars.

Japanese developers will have to get past their viewpoints about "appeals", and start looking at the overall designs. I am looking at another box in my shelf: it is Final Fantasy XIII. As much as I wanted to love its design, I just could not understand why I had to browse through countless pages of datalog to get what the hell they were talking about in the cutscenes.

The problem is: universal praise is easy to get when you have a design like one I described in this post. Halo, COD, GeOW, KZ, etc. Chances are, if you are a shooter fan, you will like at least the half of these.

But with Japan-specific games? So easy to run into problems.
What is best this year? Final Fantasy XIII? Nier? Resonance of Fate? Three games from this year, all three getting praised by some and hated by a lot more players. Is all 3 bad? No. They are unique enough to find their base - but they are too unique to find universal praise. Unlike with, say, Mass Effect 2.

THAT is what japanese developers and publishers would want to look into, I think.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Inafking it's beastly / where it ain't east-ly / take it from meeeeee

Out in the west they code all day, after release they patch away
while we devotin' full-time to hostesses
in the J-P!

 

[Kintaro]

In this thread:

Inafune is a fool.
Western Gamers are even more selfish than originally believed.

 

[Vinci]

I mean, I understand that Capcom's strategy may not be the most effective, but I don't entirely disagree with his assertion. Japan, with exception of Nintendo (and lets be real, having 30 years of brand recognition is an asset no other developer has), has largely become irrelevant.

The Wii's success was not built from Nintendo's brand recognition. Two of the best-selling games of all time are Wii Sports and Wii Fit - which are both brand new IPs this generation. Try again.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

And here we are again.
West vs East.
Japanese "appeal" vs. Western "appeal".

Stuff

So.... lowest common denominator?

 

[[Nintex]]

I was waiting for Inafune to say shit like this again. Such a shame that one of the few developers who sees that the gaming industry has to 'change' has the worst possible changes in mind. We now know why Capcom is slowly sliding down the drain, mostly because Inafune has a hard time convincing the higher ups and they shouldn't listen to him. "They think developers are stupid" yes Inafking you are stupid but the guy who put you in charge of Capcom R&D is even more stupid.

I wonder what Kobayashi is up to, possibly talentlessly hacking away at Resident Evil 5.5 while Jun Takeuchi is sneaking around at Platinum Games to look for ideas.

 

[V_Arnold]

So.... lowest common denominator?

Why do I have a hunch that you mean this as something pejorative?
You can have a nice looking christmas-tree without overdesigning it. I am pretty sure every one of us have seen an overdecorated christmas tree when one of us in the family said "okay, let us put some decorations down from it, it is too dense now with them". The developers have to stop sometimes and see if they have been overdecorating their tree or not. That does not make their tree look dumb.