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[DevilWillcry]

Also outsourced doesn't always mean it's an awful game.

With Capcom....it reaaalllly does

 

[Fimbulvetr]

The baffling thing is that the Nintendo DS is by leaps and bounds the highest selling piece of gaming hardware in the United States, as well. Even the PSP, for how badly it's in the dumps now, has a very respectable LTD in the US. It suggests to me that there are quite a few people gaming on handhelds, but that, as usual, the hardcore audience by and large cannot see anything which they are not a part of.

Also it's impossible to play handhelds inside your own house. That's just crazy.

 

[TheKaeptain]

I'm sorry, but trying to suggest that western games industry is not making 'great games' is kinda false. western developers production is over the top this generation, evidently.

No, I am saying that production doesn't equal a good product. Which is why I brought up Hollywood and the excuse people use to dismiss foreign movies.

also, you realize that TGS 2010 is not about these 4 games you were talking about. where ever you look in TGS show floor you'll find crappy games mostly. this generation began since 2005, Japanese games industry was nearly non-existent in the next-generation scene and they are slowly keeping up. they're pretty much late at this point. I mean how many years left until we see the new generation systems?

btw, It's not Inafune who is concerned only, other Japanese developers have expressed the same negative opinions, such as Takahashi of Katamari Damacy.

The same can be side for E3. Majority of games are shit in general is my point. Inafune acts like everything in the west is better. There has yet to be a western game that can match the storytelling of SOTC and ICO, two games that were released last gen. At the same time there hasn't been an eastern game that can match the tech of ME2, U2, and GOW3. Which is what I meant when I said they both have their pros and cons. Something you must have missed in that two sentences you originally quoted. If Japan was so non-existent then why did MGS4 and Dead Rising do so well early in the gen? Are we also talking about handhelds too? Because they have been pretty dominate lately.

You're putting words into his mouth. He didn't say the Western games industry isn't making 'great games', he said they aren't making 'great games' all the time, which is such a true statement that I can't imagine why anyone would take issue with it.

You're right, you will find mostly crappy games on the TGS show floor. You will also find mostly crappy games at E3 and Gamescom. The reason for that is that statistically speaking, most games are crappy.

And you're bringing up Takahashi? Takahashi has always disliked the game industry, no matter which side of the ocean you're talking about. He has contempt for the business end of *anything* controlling the creative end of things.

Thank you.

 

[lightless_shado]

It allows you to take cover, but it's not really that useful. It's not like Uncharted or Gears.

Yeah thats what I mean. I was lead to believe that it was a very important game mechanic and it is, but coming from being able to climb whatever looked climbable,shooting while jumping, smoothly transitioning from a dive into cover--vanquish just seems too stiff(yes I get that he's basically in a robot suit but still)

There are things about it that I like such as the boss that transforms that you fight in the demo, and the game mechanics aren't broken or anything. They're solid as a rock, but I guess I was expecting something instead of more of the same. More explosions, more bullet time, more QTEs etc. Thats all I'm getting and I wish it had something different. Putting more spices on a piece of meat doesn't make it delicious. Putting the right spice does.

And it just feels like thats what most of these developers think they have to do to appeal to the west. It just becomes a daisy chain of one-upsmanship and everyone is trying to see how much of what they can cram into a game rather than taking a thing and doing it differently than anything else.

I was pretty excited for what mikami and suda51 would cook up, and what I ended up getting was basically travis touchdown with a scar and a gun running around in haunted rooms with absolutely no fear or anything. I don't get what type of game they are trying to make. He's in tight corridors but he's shouting at demons and pumping hundreds of rounds into them it makes no sense. Am I supposed to be scared or what? what audience is the game targeting? its not obvious.

Now if you take something like Ninokuni, it has a wonderful artstyle, what looks to be addictive gameplay and its very clear who the game is intended for. Same with last guardian. Even if a game is simplistic in nature, it should still do something. At least with TLG they're pushing the technical limits of the PS3 and making a believable world instead of just grabbing UE3 and trying to fit their artstyle on it and then call it a day.

 

[eznark]

How is there no demand? Look at Technomancer's post below yours.

Edit: And I see your response. Hmmm...

I'm not sure that's really true.

Come on. Your contention is that these sites see clamoring demand when they do post a handheld story but choose to shift focus away from those stories because they have some hatred of the platform? If there was money there, the enthusiast writers would cover it.

(Personally I love handhelds and the JRPG's that dominate the platforms. When it comes to consoles though, I think there is a real gap).

 

[Kinitari]

I do think that Japan seems to be in an interesting position when it comes to development. I won't begin to pretend to know anything about Japanese honour and that shit, but when it comes to development, Japanese developers probably (consciously or no) make games that are designed for japanese sensibilities. From my personal observation, a lot of Japanese concepts are not that global.

Maybe I am simplifying a complicated situation, but it seems like japanese developers have to pick the japanese market or the rest of the world - as it's very hard to do both.

 

[StuBurns]

Yeah thats what I mean. I was lead to believe that it was a very important game mechanic and it is, but coming from being able to climb whatever looked climbable,shooting while jumping, smoothly transitioning from a dive into cover--vanquish just seems too stiff(yes I get that he's basically in a robot suit but still)

There are things about it that I like such as the boss that transforms that you fight in the demo, and the game mechanics aren't broken or anything. They're solid as a rock, but I guess I was expecting something instead of more of the same. More explosions, more bullet time, more QTEs etc. Thats all I'm getting and I wish it had something different. Putting more spices on a piece of meat doesn't make it delicious. Putting the right spice does.

And it just feels like thats what most of these developers think they have to do to appeal to the west. It just becomes a daisy chain of one-upsmanship and everyone is trying to see how much of what they can cram into a game rather than taking a thing and doing it differently than anything else.

I was pretty excited for what mikami and suda51 would cook up, and what I ended up getting was basically travis touchdown with a scar and a gun running around in haunted rooms with absolutely no fear or anything.

I certainly agree on Suda's thing, I was expecting something a lot more crazy, and a lot more cool. A little disappointing.

 

[The Technomancer]

Not to the people who drive hobbyist website traffic apparently.

Hm, I'll concede that that's a possibility, but that doesn't mean it has to be that way. There's an audience there, hell, I first started visiting sites like IGN when I wanted information on games when I was like twelve.

 

[disappeared]

With Capcom....it reaaalllly does

Haven't tried Dead Rising 2?

 

[brandonh83]

Also it's impossible to play handhelds inside your own house. That's just crazy.

I've put in way more time on my DS/PSP this year than my PS3/360. Zelda: Spirit Tracks, Dragon Quest IX, MGS: Peace Walker, even just recently grabbed Dissidia and am having a blast with it. But, then again, those are just my kind of games. Inafune's comment is fucking retarded because people like different things. He's obviously noting how successful Western games are, but I personally like the Japanese-born franchises a lot more.

 

[cosmicblizzard]

Come on. Your contention is that these sites see clamoring demand when they do post a handheld story but choose to shift focus away from those stories because they have some hatred of the platform? If there was money there, the enthusiast writers would cover it.

(Personally I love handhelds and the JRPG's that dominate the platforms. When it comes to consoles though, I think there is a real gap).

My contention is that I don't think consoles are so extremely dominant that handhelds should be getting a fraction of the coverage. And yes, I do think some journalists and even entire sites hate handhelds.

Obviously I have no way of knowing for sure, and I'd be shocked if handhelds didn't start moving their way up on these sites when the 3DS releases, but right now it just seems like many are holding out on us.

 

[isny]

It's just that most of the United States is not a commuter culture in terms of public transportation. If you drive to work, you obviously can't play your PSP. Unless you're the passenger or carpooling.

I do see lots of people playing DS, Gameboys, and PSP's here on public transportation in Canada. If you're on a 45 minute commute a portable is a god send.

They still do

Man, growing up Capcom was like my favorite company. So many of my favorite games on Gameboy Color and Advance started up with that logo. Its kind of sad to watch now...

 

[Seda]

Best 2D Zelda.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Haven't tried Dead Rising 2?

Has anyone?

 

[Solid warrior]

You're putting words into his mouth. He didn't say the Western games industry isn't making 'great games', he said they aren't making 'great games' all the time, which is such a true statement that I can't imagine why anyone would take issue with it.

You're right, you will find mostly crappy games on the TGS show floor. You will also find mostly crappy games at E3 and Gamescom. The reason for that is that statistically speaking, most games are crappy.

And you're bringing up Takahashi? Takahashi has always disliked the game industry, no matter which side of the ocean you're talking about. He has contempt for the business end of *anything* controlling the creative end of things.

I apologize if I didn't understand him correctly. but I agree with Keiji Inafune, I think he is speaking the truth that Japan industry is 'five years behind'.

Western games industry have been more than great this generation IMO, they've got it all, next gen technology, great production values and overall quality, In comparison to the lagging Japanese games industry. I'm pretty sure at this point that the western games industry will lead on the new generation systems as well.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

One thing I've noticed is that the big Japanese developers are averaging fewer and fewer big console projects developed in-house.

Capcom and Konami for example. Street Fighter. Castlevania. Bionic Commando. Dead Rising. Silent Hill.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

And it just feels like thats what most of these developers think they have to do to appeal to the west. It just becomes a daisy chain of one-upsmanship and everyone is trying to see how much of what they can cram into a game rather than taking a thing and doing it differently than anything else.

Serious post this time; Maybe Mikami and his team just happened to come up with something like Vanquish, not to appeal to the west, but because they like it?

Hell, the design for Sam's suit is based on a more roboticized(for lack of a better word) Casshern rather than any of the assorted western space marine designs. The guy was even gonna have a dog sidekick and everything.

 

[eznark]

Hm, I'll concede that that's a possibility, but that doesn't mean it has to be that way. There's an audience there, hell, I first started visiting sites like IGN when I wanted information on games when I was like twelve.

IGN, 1Up and the blogs function almost purely as press release publishers. They'll also pass along whichever bits of bullshots or bulletpoints the publishers deem ready for marketing. They are the delivery system for gaming ad campaigns. That's really just about it.

The thing with portable games is that they generally don't have the same hype. Without the PR folks writing their material how could IGN or 1Up ever "write" a story on a portable game?

 

[flyinpiranha]

Meh, I agree. Besides Demon's Souls (is that Japan or Korea? Can we count that?) and DQIX I haven't been moved or wowed by anything coming from them. And upcoming GT5 ...

But again, I'd have to look at a list of games before making a final decision. But looking at all the games I do play and what I've owned and enjoyed for the past 5 years, there isn't much from Japan.

Not sure if my tastes have just changed or if Western developers are just doing that good ... probably both.

 

[Ranger X]

Who is surprised? It's not the first stupid things Inafune is saying.

 

[Vamphuntr]

With Capcom....it reaaalllly does

If Dead Rising 2 Case Zero is any indication of the quality of Dead Rising 2 then you are wrong. Wasn't Street Fighter 4 partly outsourced also? Mega Man Universe looks bad??? (ok Roll's design sure do)

Capcom is not dead yet.

They still have pretty good games coming soon too:

Marvel vs Capcom 3
Gyakuten Kenji 2
Dead Rising 2
Ghost Trick (out in Japan)
Okamiden
Monster Hunter 3rd portable

and some more I probably don't remember. I mean guys I can understand you don't like their games or Inafune but a least be fair.

 

[The Technomancer]

Best 2D Zelda.

Agreed. My second and third Gameboy games I ever played (After Pokemon Gold)
I bought Seasons at the local game shop, and when I beat it I knew I had to snag Ages as well.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I apologize if I didn't understand him correctly. but I agree with Keiji Inafune, I think he is speaking the truth that Japan industry is 'five years behind'.

Western games industry have been more than great this generation IMO, they've got it all, next gen technology, great production values and overall quality, In comparison to the lagging Japanese games industry. I'm pretty sure at this point that the western games industry will lead on the new generation systems as well.

So far the only thing I see on your list that most of Japan is almost always behind on is "next gen technology"(I assume by this you mean graphics).

 

[_Bro]

This Capcom hate is pretty dumb. But hey, I don't think REZ is a good game so what do I know about quality.

 

[ghst]

i hope by "western games" he means those nordic/eastern european masterpieces that claw their way up to the bottom of the steam chart after going on sale for the price of a sandwich.

 

[shintoki]

The baffling thing is that the Nintendo DS is by leaps and bounds the highest selling piece of gaming hardware in the United States, as well. Even the PSP, for how badly it's in the dumps now, has a very respectable LTD in the US. It suggests to me that there are quite a few people gaming on handhelds, but that, as usual, the hardcore audience by and large cannot see anything which they are not a part of.

You mean how COD is the biggest franchise, like ever. Or GTA. Or Halo.

Except last month, didn't NSMB DS put up another 100k. A title that is 4 years old and already sold well over 20million copies(much more than COD, Halo, and GTA). Mario Kart DS is another with a massive amount of sales.

 

[DevilWillcry]

I think his quote was probably distorted a bit by the journalist. He just wanted to express on how, according to him, Capcom is so much better than them because they want to appeal to westerners.

How does that make them better? It just makes them sound like hypocrites that are turning their backs on the style of games that made Capcom a major name to begin with. Why not simply evolve what made Capcom great, rather than radically and unnecessarily change the company's strategy? What gives Capcom the right to call out impressive devs like Team Ico and Level 5 when they have yet to prove their western strategy is even working? I guarantee you that the traditional Japanese developed fighting games from Capcom will be what keeps the company a float while the experimental outsourced shit bombs and underperforms.

Some of the metldowns here are epic. I don't think how some of you can say that Mikami was that much better on that regard. He also made quite a number of dumb comments before, especially in the PS2/GC era.

And wtf with the guy that said Namco Bandai was so much better. Sure they will published Project Dark but if you ask them about bringing Tales Of to the west they will show you their middle finger. They are also working with Ninja Theory on a game.

Namco may not consistently bring one series overseas, but they don't publicly bash the entire Japanese gaming industry in favor of a looney unproven outsource strategy. At least when Namco signed Ninja Theory they let them do something original rather than rape one of their own IPs.

 

[Owzers]

i really really really really want a good Resident Evil game

 

[Solid warrior]

Meh, I agree. Besides Demon's Souls (is that Japan or Korea? Can we count that?) and DQIX I haven't been moved or wowed by anything coming from them. And upcoming GT5 ...

But again, I'd have to look at a list of games before making a final decision. But looking at all the games I do play and what I've owned and enjoyed for the past 5 years, there isn't much from Japan.

Not sure if my tastes have just changed or if Western developers are just doing that good ... probably both.

same here.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Inafune saying crazy things for pass few years has been fun to watch .

 

[randomkid]

All I want to say is that I'm kind of astonished that a well-informed article like this was written at the Times of all places. I can see why Schiesel's occasional reviews make it in, but it's pretty surprising to see references to Ninokuni and Suda 51 in the old Gray Lady.

 

[Calcaneus]

Japanese devs are better off making the games they want to make, instead of chasing the elusive "western gamer". We're still here, make good games and we'll buy them.

There's nothing wrong with taking good ideas from western games, but they shouldn't be sacrificing their own style for something they think appeals to us. I think Vanquish is a good way of taking what looks like a "western-influenced" concept and adding your own style to make something just as cool. Quantum Theory is absolutely not the way to do it.

 

[Gospel]

Megaman Legends 3 will look and play like Gears of War then.

 

[slade]

Capcom was my favorite videogame company going all the way back to the NES until this douche took over. Inafune has been good for Capcom's bottom line but I don't like what he is doing with some of Capcom's top franchises. Also, they have yet to create a really top level franchise like DMC, Onimusha, VJ or RE this gen. Sorry, but middling games like Dead Rising or Lost Planet are not going to cut it.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I apologize if I didn't understand him correctly. but I agree with Keiji Inafune, I think he is speaking the truth that Japan industry is 'five years behind'.

Western games industry have been more than great this generation IMO, they've got it all, next gen technology, great production values and overall quality, In comparison to the lagging Japanese games industry. I'm pretty sure at this point that the western games industry will lead on the new generation systems as well.

I'm confident that in the next generation, the company with the best-selling software will be Japanese, just like it is now. I'm also confident that Japanese developers will continue to focus on handheld platforms because that's what makes the most sense in their home market, and that Western developers will continue to focus on expensive blockbuster-type popcorn affairs because... they like going out of business, I guess.

 

[disappeared]

Has anyone?

Case Zero's been up for about two weeks.

 

[jman2050]

I apologize if I didn't understand him correctly. but I agree with Keiji Inafune, I think he is speaking the truth that Japan industry is 'five years behind'.

Western games industry have been more than great this generation IMO, they've got it all, next gen technology, great production values and overall quality, In comparison to the lagging Japanese games industry. I'm pretty sure at this point that the western games industry will lead on the new generation systems as well.

Personally I find the ridiculous proliferation of shooters over the past two gens from western devs to be cannibalizing game quality as a whole. It's pretty much the second coming of the late 80's-early 90s platforming boom where you have a few elite titles that execute the conventions of the genre well and a whole bunch of nothing that merely takes up space. Hopefully like back then the bubble will burst sooner rather than later. Japanese devs trying to ape their success doesn't help things either.

 

[Keikoku]

Japanese developers seem to be unable to get paste the "we're inferior this generation" thing. Am I the only one who thinks these days are over ? Except from HD JRPG maybe (and the problem is more about quantity than quality), but I'm looking forward to a lot of japanese games, and I enjoyed a lot of them during this generation of consoles. TGS surprised me in terms of announcements of new games like Ashura's Wrath.

 

[Vamphuntr]

How does that make them better? It just makes them sound like hypocrites that are turning their backs on the style of games that made Capcom a major name to begin with. Why not simply evolve what made Capcom great, rather than radically and unnecessarily change the company's strategy? What gives Capcom the right to call out impressive devs like Team Ico and Level 5 when they have yet to prove their western strategy is even working? I guarantee you that the traditional Japanese developed fighting games from Capcom will be what keeps the company a float while the experimental outsourced shit bombs and underperforms.
.

I never ever said that made them any better. Inafune never said that the Last Guardian was crap, that Level 5 blew or whatever. I think you need to relax a bit. A journalist spoke with him and he told them he wasn't impressed with a he saw. That doesn't mean he hated everything. He didn't attack anyone personally. On the other hand you said it was Crapcom so...

 

[sixteen-bit]

I wonder what Inafune's favorite game of last year was. Anyone know?

 

[lightless_shado]

Serious post this time; Maybe Mikami and his team just happened to come up with something like Vanquish, not to appeal to the west, but because they like it?

Hell, the design for Sam's suit is based on a more roboticized(for lack of a better word) Casshern rather than any of the assorted western space marine designs. The guy was even gonna have a dog sidekick and everything.

Would honestly have preferred the casshern thing. Don't like the whole Ex football player all american tough guy. We get enough of that in the west.

And rather than setting it in america against america's nemesis second only to the nazis, maybe they could've set it in another part of the world. Europe, south america, or even Africa.

I won't presume to try and say what was going through their heads when they made the game(I'll admit it was dumb of me to think that their intention was to appeal to the west first and make a fun game second) but you can see how I'd have arrived at that conclusion given that they haven't shown anyone in the game speaking japanese in any trailers to my knowledge, and no japanese characters have been shown(as far as I can recall) and furthermore platinum games isn't that big of a studio, and there's a lot of money to be made in the west if dead rising, MGS4, and the like is any indication.

So yeah they could have just thought "yeah it will be a bonus if this game appeals to the west, but we're making an action game only" but I just find that harder to believe. If they wanted to go with a Casshern like character, then by all means they should've just gone all the way with it. It would really have been awesome to see someone try a game where you get a canine companion and it actually works out(unlike dead to rights). He could even be a playable co-op character. That would've been so awesome.

Western developers will continue to focus on expensive blockbuster-type popcorn affairs because... they like going out of business, I guess.

Modern warfare 2, and bad company 2 did well didn't they? I'm pretty sure they made back the costs of making those games.

 

[Jin34]

I apologize if I didn't understand him correctly. but I agree with Keiji Inafune, I think he is speaking the truth that Japan industry is 'five years behind'.

Western games industry have been more than great this generation IMO, they've got it all, next gen technology, great production values and overall quality, In comparison to the lagging Japanese games industry. I'm pretty sure at this point that the western games industry will lead on the new generation systems as well.

The biggest thing I would want Japanese devs to learn from the West is online coding. But I mostly want them to stay far away from western devs since they unfortunately put most of that tech to make the most homogeneous gaming experiences. So much technical know how mostly put to use for mostly one genre or two.

 

[I AM JOHN!]

The Capcom hatred that's been bouncing around here recently is ridiculous, but man alive, Inafune sure is dumb.

 

[cvxfreak]

Capcom is at its best when they stick to their expertise and sensibilities. That's why RE5, SFIV and MHP2G are their best selling games this generation.

For Capcom's sake, I hope Dead Rising 2 doesn't bomb.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

And rather than setting it in america against america's nemesis second only to the nazis, maybe they could've set it in another part of the world. Europe, south america, or even Africa.

This is probably the only aspect of the game influenced by appealing to the west, actually.

Originally the enemy was supposed to be China but someone in marketing thought Americans wouldn't be able to relate to China being an enemy.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

You're putting words into his mouth. He didn't say the Western games industry isn't making 'great games', he said they aren't making 'great games' all the time, which is such a true statement that I can't imagine why anyone would take issue with it.

You're right, you will find mostly crappy games on the TGS show floor. You will also find mostly crappy games at E3 and Gamescom. The reason for that is that statistically speaking, most games are crappy.

And you're bringing up Takahashi? Takahashi has always disliked the game industry, no matter which side of the ocean you're talking about. He has contempt for the business end of *anything* controlling the creative end of things.

Ninety percent of everything is crap.

 

[Kusagari]

Can't blame the dude. He was stuck in Capcom's booth most of the time so he must have seen the DmC trailer 50000 times.

 

[DR2K]

I just want RE6 starring Jill Valentine and Claire Redfield and all is forgiven!

Wait until Ninja Theory finishes with DMC.

 

[jman2050]

Wait until Ninja Theory finishes with DMC.

Don't even joke about that.

 

[gdt]

I don't know what it is exactly, but I've certainly played less Japanese games this gen than ever before. This gen is absolutely the West taking over (aside from Nintendo <3, who seem to be able to make global games rather than East vs West).

Kinda sad, as a kid everything I owned was from the East.

Not saying there aren't any Japanese games I'm looking forward to (there are some, of course), but it's just the way it is.