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Inafune: 'Japan industry even worse than 2009'; ex-2KCZ/MGSV dev: "Stop dramatizing"
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
Which games?
Do you play / like multiplayer?
The answer to the second question is probably where the disconnect comes. Western is focusing more and more on MP.
Again, that proves the point though. Nintendo has been failing in a lot of their attempts lately. And it still doesn't refute the point that one of their big holiday pushes is an HD remake, not a new game, and the rest are all re-hashed IPs.
There was more than AAAAAAAAAs and Indies once. Once upon a time, when the home console industry was in a healthy situation.
My answer, but not for the same reasons. Xenosaga 2 was dreadful and I hated Baten Kaitos, but Xenosaga 3 was actually pretty enjoyable, BKO was a lot more fun from what I played, and Xenoblade went on to become one of the primer RPGs of the generation.
We also had that turn around on FFXIV but that came at the expense of the old staff and much of SE being put on redevelopment duty. DMC2 was also a rough start for a new team but they found their footing with DMC3 and still made a well regarded game with DMC4 before getting to do something completely different with Dragon's Dogma.
No, more like "stop bitchin".
Tales of Xillia just came out this month, Shin Megami Tensei IV just came out last month...
Lol, no they don't. Plenty of genres that Japanese can still compete with and even easily exceed most western developers in
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Struggling to think of the many recent creative Japanese games full of discovery and magic, and not following a recipe.
blizzardjesus
Banned
No one from KojiPro should be allowed to comment on anything until they can make something that is not yet another Metal Gear.
Sakura
Member
Uncharted, TLoU, Bioshock, Halo, Gears, Spec Ops (is that AAA? Probably not), pretty much all the shooters I guess. I used to play a lot of multiplayer when I was younger, but it hasn't really evolved much. Especially now amongst FPS it's essentially the similar CoD style across all games.
UltraGunner
Banned
Yes Inafune I agree that the Japanese Industry is worse now than it was four years ago. You wanna know why? Because everybody was dumb enough to take your advice!
FonkyByNature
Member
It's great to see someone telling the truth about western gaming of the last couple of years. I'm really fucking tired of the same ol same cinematic, no gameplay, non fun crappy games. Ass Creed, COD and the many shitty games this gen comes to mind.
Japanese developers are the best at making adventure games by far. They have that sort of magic that brings you child memories.
Western developers are better at making action/multiplayer games. Both complement each other perfectly, but i don't know why, the Japanese industry this gen was empty in adventure/action/unique games... they all went to smartphones and 3DS... where's my Breath of Fire, Alundra, Shinobi, Phantom Dust of this gen ??? I'm happy there's at least Strider on the way, can't wait to play this !!!
Also, Itagaki needs to make a game, i miss this bastard.
Japanese developers are the best at making adventure games by far. They have that sort of magic that brings you child memories.
Western developers are better at making action/multiplayer games. Both complement each other perfectly, but i don't know why, the Japanese industry this gen was empty in adventure/action/unique games... they all went to smartphones and 3DS... where's my Breath of Fire, Alundra, Shinobi, Phantom Dust of this gen ??? I'm happy there's at least Strider on the way, can't wait to play this !!!
Also, Itagaki needs to make a game, i miss this bastard.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Pikmin 3 and Skyward Sword for me
.SporeCrawler
Member
1. Wonderful 101 is not really rehashed. Pikmin 3 is a game that was dormant for a very long time. DKC is the second game after a reboot of a subseries that existed in the SNES days. Mario 3D World is the first 3D mario game on the system and even if you count Mario 3D Land its the second in the subseries (of course you can always say Mario is all rehash but that argument really is not valid in my eyes as games like Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy or NSMB are vastly different). Wii Party U is the second entry in the series and Wii Fit U is the third entry in the series.
So yes its a very safe lineup (to be fair they need their guaranteed sales at the moment) but the output is there. Compare that to other japanese companies. Square enix used to have series other than Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. When is the last time we have seen a Saga, Mana, Xeno(not xenoblade) or Grandia game? Konami used to have other games than MGS, PES and Castlevania. Where is Contra, Silent Hill, Gradius, ZOE or Suikoden? Man it hurts me to think about Sega or capcom so ill just stop here.
Other publishers cant even bring new entries in their staple franchises let alone a new IP. Nintendo is actually a company that consistently does bring out new IPs. They just get ignored because people are busy accusing them of not releasing new IPs.
2. Please specify what you mean with failing in a lot of their attempts. they had a rough start with 3DS but turned it around now. They had a even worse start with WiiU but it looks like they will have a good lineup this winter?
man....
JordanN
Banned
He's making Devil's Third.
DigitalDevilSummoner
zero cognitive reasoning abilities
Games with Raiden in them.
First off Amaro admits that Inafune was completely right about the 360/PS3 generation.
Considering that his appeal for discretion is full out nonsense. It's been an incredibly long generation and Japanese devs have been stumbling throughout all of it.
And shitting on Western games? (and that's after making a big deal about 'humility'?) Complete bullcrap on his part.
Considering that his appeal for discretion is full out nonsense. It's been an incredibly long generation and Japanese devs have been stumbling throughout all of it.
And shitting on Western games? (and that's after making a big deal about 'humility'?) Complete bullcrap on his part.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
operation rainfall games for me
FonkyByNature
Member
I know, but i'm thinking the guy cancelled it because no publisher ? or maybe that will be a surprise for 2014 E3 ? I hope so. I still think Itagaki is one of the best Japanese developers in the world. He knows how to make games imo.
That last paragraph
ETHER
That part fits so damn well with Ubisoft's output for example
Yeah Rayman games are EXACTLY THAT. Who dares question GLORIOUS NIPPON?
SporeCrawler
Member
Wonderful 101
its the most recent i can think of and its glorious
I'm playing them on consoles. Most of the great Japanese games this generation have been on consoles or in arcades despite all the talk about handheld library superiority.
Pinko Marx
Banned
You pick out one game is if it contradicts what Amaro was saying.
It bombed massively.
Amano directly specifies AAA titles. Ubisoft titles like Far Cry 3 or Assassin's Creed.
Ohohohohoho. Right click save as.
The original question has nothing to do with sales.
1.
Wonderful 101 = Platinum, not Nintendo, but then they didn't really advertise it very well
DKC = Old IP
Pikmin 3 = Old IP. Good game, but not worldwide smash.
Mario 3d World = Old IP.
Yes, but it's what, Mario Kart 8?!
Wii Fit U may be DOA as that was a casual thing and that crowd may be gone. Even then, rehash.
By the way, I'm all for re-hashing. I'm not against it like a lot of people in this thread. I want re-hashes galore AND new games. However, the point here is that Nintendo is all about the re-hash and bringing them up in any kind of way to show current Japanese innovation is laughable at best, nauseating at worst.
And I am bitter Wonderful 101 appears to be failing because that thing looks great, but even then it wasn't by Nintendo, just funded, and they didn't exactly go nuts on advertising it.
And the fact it's bombing massively IS an inditement to Nintendo since they failed to get behind it until the very last minute. Where were you E3 blowout?
You can't even say that, though. There was, what, a half-year drought? And they themselves admitted they underestimated HD development?
That's why it's insane to bring them up in this thread of all threads when they themselves admitted HD caught them unawares.
They do, on 3DS for the most part. I'd agree with you on that part. And that's where I'd say Japan is kicking ass....on the cheaper to develop for, less competition from the West, mobile devices devoted to gaming.
It's for those same reasons that I'd say you have to separate the two, though. You can't include mobile / devoted handhelds to this argument because it's not the same thing to make and advert games for them as opposed to a modern HD device (and if Inafune tried, I'd join you and say he's wrong).
Eh, see above. 3DS has no place really, imo, in this thread, since designing for it is probably much simpler than an HD device.
As for them having a good lineup this winter? I'd call it stable and a known, even good quantity, but it's not going to draw in new people or revitalize the U, so in that sense Inafune is right.
Remember, his argument isn't simply "our games suck". It's that they're failing in the industry, which has nothing to do with the quality of individual titles.
He talked about AAA games, and I was thinking of all recent Ubisoft AAA games
You seem pretty mad over this! Rayman is not AAA - AAA in terms of budget and release
1st Course
Member
JP devs are not less talented than western devs but they are definitely less ambitious than them.
You don't see JP pubs funding new shiny AAA IPs like Watch_Dogs or Destiny, instead they just keep putting their money on the same 15+ old successful IPs while shitting out cheap iOS garbage every once in a while.
The Souls games are probably the biggest new IPs that came out of Japan this gen and even those probably don't count as AAA games (speaking about budget here).
The problem is with JP pubs and JP devs.
You don't see JP pubs funding new shiny AAA IPs like Watch_Dogs or Destiny, instead they just keep putting their money on the same 15+ old successful IPs while shitting out cheap iOS garbage every once in a while.
The Souls games are probably the biggest new IPs that came out of Japan this gen and even those probably don't count as AAA games (speaking about budget here).
The problem is with JP pubs and JP devs.
SporeCrawler
Member
are we talking about quality or sales?
lets look at the post my post was answering to
if good games means high sales then id say animal crossing new leaf.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
This is so on point.
A lot, not all, of western AAA output is extremely formulaic, something I believe can be largely attributed to a misguided focus on metascores as a metric of quality and user expectation.
Obviously as budgets have risen publishers have become increasingly conservative and risk averse, but the reality is that what is considered to be "safe" is the sort of title that the enthusiast press gets excited about.
This is the downside to having a critical establishment that rather than standing for a set of aesthetic and philosophical standards and ideals, has instead aligned itself with the audience it is supposedly serving.
What may have started out notionally as an attempt at consumer advocacy has instead turned into an echo-chamber driving games (and genres) towards enshrined formulas and, in the end, stagnation.
More like western is focusing more on adding MP in a ploy to make it seem like the game has replay value, but really it's just a tacked on mode with no substance or fun.
not_so_special
Banned
you need to play soul sacrifce them
Completely subjective on your part and ridiculous attempt to negate the very real truth that a lot of people like multiplayer.
Not even saying it's not true for some games, but it's still both subjective and missing what a lot of people want.
SporeCrawler
Member
Wonderful 101 is funded by Nintendo. Similar to Sony funding Resistance or MS funding Sunset Overdrive. its considered first party published. And i specifically said that games like mario or donkey kong are old IPs. I only said that they are not as rehashed as you say they are.
The series is friggin 20 years old.
may is not a fact. also its the third entry in a series. The last game was out 4 years ago.
Nintendo also makes a lot of new Ips like Xenoblade, Last Story, Pandoras Tower, Captain Rainbow, Fling Smash, Pushmo, Wonderful 101, Nintendoland etc. etc. As I said course they want their guaranteed sellers.
They made the game possible when nobody was willing to fund it. It wouldnt even exist if nintendo didnt cough up money for it.
I said they had a half year drought.
handheld or console. games are games imho.
I think thats about where we can agree upon.
we were talking about output and i said while i agree that the output wasnt there for the initial 6 month they have returned to their old output. sales? who knows.
Far Cry 3 did a lot of weird/interesting things with it's story and the devs followed it quickly with Blood Dragon. So yeah complete nuts to Amano there as well. And yeah I do get antsy about people shitting on other people's good work like Amano did with his dumbass spreadsheet comment.
All of this is subjective, so...yeah.
Xenoblade?