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[Sirpopopop]

You have to understand here:

India is in the right because:

A. Snowden.
B. DROOOOONNNEEEEZZZZZZ

 

[Udham]

Quoting again, cuz it's lost again:



And those who brought up issue of caste here...FYI Ms Devyani herself is a "Dalit".

 

[Aylinato]

I am not against the punishing or the arrest, if the diplomat has broken a law, punish her. But rather am against the way she has been handled, considering her official position.

This deserves a read to get some insight,



http://in.news.yahoo.com/devyani-files-paint-picture-of-us-apathy-054935742.html

She's a criminal. I'm sorry, here in America we treat everyone the same. (Unless your a banker/oil tycoon/rich 16 year old from Texas who kills 4 people)

 

[luxarific]

I haven't been quoted this many times...never.

Anyway, believe what you want to believe. I just presented my opinion here, which is shared by so many others in India.
Think about it, why would entire India rally behind Ms Devyani. Across the party lines, ideologies, right-wing left-wing, middle-path followers...everyone.

Are we all idiots? Or we all love to exploit our maids? Or we are just a jingoistic bunch?

And those who brought up issue of caste here...FYI Ms Devyani herself is a "Dalit".
Her father was an Administrator, so she may be well off but trust me it isn't easy to get where shes got, even if you have lot of money.

My guess is those two. If an American diplomat was exploiting their household staff and compounded the issue by lying about it, I would be very pleased if he was arrested and thrown into an Indian jail. I certainly wouldn't be defending the idiot.

 

[Aylinato]

Quoting again, cuz it's lost again:



And those who brought up issue of caste here...FYI Ms Devyani herself is a "Dalit".

A Dalit is a what?

 

[luxarific]

A Dalit is a what?

An "untouchable".

 

[Trojita]

I haven't been quoted this many times...never.

Anyway, believe what you want to believe. I just presented my opinion here, which is shared by so many others in India.
Think about it, why would entire India rally behind Ms Devyani. Across the party lines, ideologies, right-wing left-wing, middle-path followers...everyone.

Are we all idiots? Or we all love to exploit our maids? Or we are just a jingoistic bunch?

And those who brought up issue of caste here...FYI Ms Devyani herself is a "Dalit".
Her father was an Administrator, so she may be well off but trust me it isn't easy to get where shes got, even if you have lot of money.

Yeah this definitely sounds like a well reasoned reaction

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/devyani-khobragade-is-a-dalit-so-centre-reacted-late-mayawati/440249-3.html (The first time I went here a bunch of popups came up)

Devyani Khobragade was not only arrested on charges of visa fraud and handcuffed in public view last week but also stripped and searched in the police station in New York. Devyani was kept also in a lockup with common criminals and drug addicts.

Smarting under the humiliation, India retaliated strongly and took a slew of anti-US steps on Tuesday. India recalled all consulate personnel ID cards and made it clear that the law of strict reciprocity is in place. So if the US says that Devyani has limited immunity, a similar procedure will be applicable for US diplomats stationed in India.

India also withdrew all airport passes for consulates and embassy vehicles which mean they cannot get priority treatment and will have to park their vehicles as ordinary passengers after paying the fee. In another stern step authorities asked for all details including salaries paid to all Indian staff employed in US consulates, including those working as domestic help by the Americans families in India.

To determine if they're paying tax or not, India also asked for visa details of all teachers at US schools in the country and what they're being paid and details of their bank accounts. Delhi Police removed barricades setup outside the US Embassy and all import clearances for the Embassy have also been stopped, which means American diplomats cannot import anything.

 

[Aylinato]

An "untouchable".

The fact that she is being described as a whatever-the-caste system calls her is pretty damning in itself

 

[luxarific]

The fact that she is being described as a whatever-the-caste system calls her is pretty damning in itself

Well caste is India's great shame, as racism and slavery are the U.S.'s. Neither of us is "clean" in that respect. Pointing to Devyani's caste as a means of saying that she is somehow above caste or that her treatment of her maid isn't typical of how the wealthy treat lower socioeconomic classes in India is just stupid though.

 

[Mesousa]

Well caste is India's great shame, as racism and slavery are the U.S.'s. Neither of us is "clean" in that respect. Pointing to Devyani's caste as a means of saying that she is somehow above caste or that her treatment of her maid isn't typical of how the wealthy treat lower socioeconomic classes in India is just stupid though.

Not really.

She is the daughter of a big shot government worker. This is like saying that because Sasha and Malia wont come into the same contact with what the average black person in America will come into contact with, that America is not racist anymore.

Folks are lying if they say Devyani does not have privilege based on her family in spite of her caste standing.

 

[Cat Party]

The US arrests a suspected criminal, and India retaliates by going after teachers. Get fucked.

 

[Udham]

My guess is those two. If an American diplomat was exploiting their household staff and compounded the issue by lying about it, I would be very pleased if he was arrested and thrown into an Indian jail. I certainly wouldn't be defending the idiot.

I doubt that you have understood all the aspects of the case.
This isn't straight forward as it looks like.

This will be a good read:
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...sa-issue-indian-diplomat-arrest/1/331838.html

 

[Buzzman]

Are we all idiots? Or we all love to exploit our maids? Or we are just a jingoistic bunch?

I don't know, you tell me.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/devyani-case-third-instance-of-maids-accusing-indian-diplomats/1209568/

http://www.mapsofindia.com/my-india/society/human-trafficking-in-india-must-end

Close to 80% of the human trafficking across the world is done for sexual exploitation and the rest is for bonded labor and India is considered as the hub of this crime in Asia.

Kids especially girl and young women, mostly from Northeast are taken from their homes and sold in faraway states of India for sexual exploitation and to work as bonded labour by the agents who lure their parents with education, better life, and money for these kids . Agents do not send these kids to school but sell them to work in brick kilns, carpentry units, as domestic servants, beggars etc.

 

[Zhengi]

A Dalit is a what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalek

 

[mavs]

I am not against the punishing or the arrest, if the diplomat has broken a law, punish her. But rather am against the way she has been handled, considering her official position.

This deserves a read to get some insight,



http://in.news.yahoo.com/devyani-files-paint-picture-of-us-apathy-054935742.html

JUNE 24, 2013: Office of Foreign Missions (OFM) in New York informed, and its help requested in tracing Richard.

An intriguing part of the story is how difficult it became for Khobragade to file a Missing Persons Report with the NYPD. It was on the advice of the OFM, Khobragade went to file a missing person report at the police precinct concerned, but was told that she could not since Richard was an adult, and that such a report could only be lodged by a member of her family.

There's nothing intriguing about this. Why on earth would Khobragade be allowed to file a missing person report with the police for this woman? She doesn't have a right to know her whereabouts. You don't get to file missing person reports for people you aren't related to.

JULY 1, 2013: A woman claiming to be the Richard’s lawyer calls Khobragade to tell her that Sangeeta would not go to court only if, one, the Indian diplomat signs a 566 form authorising the maid to terminate her employment, and, two, change her visa status from government visa to normal visa, and, three, be compensated for 19 hours of work per day. Khobragade refuses to negotiate on phone, insisting that the caller first identify herself; the caller hangs up.

JULY 2, 2013: Khobragade informs the OFM about these developments in writing, seeking NYPD support in ascertaining the identity of the caller and her links with Richard, given that the conversations clearly indicate that the runaway maid has no intention of returning to India and seems keen to extort money by making false accusations.

No action is taken.

Khobragade files a written complaint with the Delhi Police against Sangeeta Richard and her husband Philip Richard, accusing them of cheating under Section 420 of the Indian Penal Code, and asking the police to book them for the offence and recover the maid’s official passport.

JULY 5, 2013: Khobragade files complaint of “aggravated harassment” with respect to the phone call received on July 1 for extortion and blackmail. No action taken by NYPD. Michael Phillips, Director (Human Resources) at the US embassy in New Delhi, is called by senior MEA official and briefed about missing maid, reports filed with the US State Department and NYPD, and the FIR filed in India against Sangeeta Richard. The assistance of the State Department and US Embassy is emphatically solicited in locating the maid and sending her back to India to pre- empt this being used as an immigration channel.

This probably backfired horribly on Khobragade, since the US is now prosecuting her for the crimes Richard was supposedly "falsely" accusing her of for the purposes of "extortion".

By the way even if Khobragade is not guilty of those crimes, Richard will still not be guilty of extortion. Merely having a reasonable belief that Khobragade is guilty is a defense against charges of extortion, and since Khobragade was arrested and is in jail that belief is clearly reasonable.

 

[scsa]

Yeah this definitely sounds like a well reasoned reaction

The central election to elect the prime minister is coming up in May, and the opposition is already breathing down the government's neck for being too soft and indecisive on almost everything. To counter the opposition PM's nomination impending attack via a well timed speech, the government has reacted to this sharply. This is a much deeper and dirtier game than what you can make out from reports. The party in power has already lost all state elections which happened 2 weeks ago , and as a sign of things to come, are responding in any which way they can. They are losing out in all opinion polls, and want to demonstrate taking a stand. No matter, how foolish it maybe.

Regarding the security barricades being removed, they were not needed to be removed. I'll give you that. As an ex-employee of British High Commission, I can attest that measure can bring up a major security hazard. Though , the US embassy is probably even more guarded than the Indian Parliament.

Regarding the caste system comments, it is like saying other countries are full of dumb blondes who only want to fuck and the only thing college kids do is fuck and have beer. India is an extremely tough country to decipher due to the insane diversity of people here, and can't be objectively commented upon till the time someone lands up here and sees it for themselves.

And regarding the who gives a shit about women in India comments,

BANGALORE, India — IN India today, the rapes of women, from children to grandmothers, are daily news. Frothy television programs on sentimentalized family values are interrupted by advertisements for a new smartphone app: VithU, which allows women in danger, at a double press of a power button, to send an S O S alert with their location to predesignated friends and family members.

Universities are debating requiring students to abandon jeans and adopt formal dress codes, as though the trappings of civilization are needed to hold at bay the anarchy of sexual violence. Twelve-year-old schoolgirls are attending rape awareness seminars, in a death of innocence.

Indian cities are awash with feral men, untethered from their distant villages, divorced from family and social structure, fighting poverty, exhausted, denied access to regular female companionship, adrift on powerful tides of alcohol and violent pornography, newly exposed to the smart young women of the cities, with their glistening jobs and clothes and casual independence — and not able to respond to any of it in a safe, civilized manner. This is the world of women under siege, the medieval world of the walking undead, the rise of the zombies, targeting females rich and poor. For women, at least, winter is coming.

In this context, it might appear odd to examine any other variant of the Indian male. But it is important to do so and to do so now. To bear witness to an alternate male reality that also pervades India on a daily basis.

This is what I witnessed on a recent flight from Kolkata to Bangalore. The plane was typical of budget air travel: full of businessmen and mothers. The smart flight attendants were young men. The pilot, captain of the flight deck, was a woman. This is not an uncommon combination in India these days. I was struck instead by the behavior of the male passengers.

In most countries, a woman clambering aboard a plane with a fretful infant and turning a crowded row of six into a de facto row of seven is usually met with hostility. Here, every other row seemed larded with these women and their babies. But those stuffy Indian businessmen — men of middle management, dodging bottles and diaper bags and carelessly flung toys — they didn’t grumble. Instead, up and down the plane, I saw them helping. Holding babies so that mothers could eat. Burping infants and entertaining toddlers. Not because they knew these women, but because being concerned and engaged was their normal mode of social behavior. So, I will say this — Indian men can also be among the kindest in the world.

Women know this. When I asked my friends and acquaintances — both Indian and expatriate — about their perceptions of Indian men, they mentioned intelligence, wit and a reverence for learning. Others described gregarious partners who knew how to relax and enjoy themselves. All of them talked about commitment and caring. One said, “I love that he is deeply concerned about his parents.” An Englishwoman said of her long-term Indian partner, “He makes me feel cherished and taken care of in a manner I never experienced in the U.K.” Another said of her father, “He supported my mother through their marriage, through her job, with the kids, her health, everything.” A 16-year-old schoolgirl echoed this: “You feel safe with them. No matter what, they will see you home safely.”

Strong familial commitment is not a phenomenon restricted to the urban middle classes. Migrant laborers care for wives and children, and still send money home to their parents. The young woman who was gang-raped on a New Delhi bus on Dec. 16 had a village-raised father who supported her ardently. This part of the story is so unsurprising, it rarely makes the news.

Let me introduce the Common Indian Male, a category that deserves taxonomic recognition: committed, concerned, cautious; intellectually curious, linguistically witty; socially gregarious, endearingly awkward; quick to laugh, slow to anger. Frequently spotted in domestic circles, traveling in a family herd. He has been sighted in sari shops and handbag stores, engaged in debating his spouse’s selection with the sons and daughters who trail behind. There is, apparently, no domestic decision that is not worthy of his involvement.

There is a telling phrase that best captures the Indian man in a relationship — whether as lover, parent or friend: not “I love you” but “Main hoon na.” It translates to “I’m here for you” but is better explained as a hug of commitment — “Never fear, I’m here.” These are men for whom commitment is a joy, a duty and a deep moral anchor.

At its excessive worst, this sensibility can produce annoyances: a sentimentalized addiction to Mummy; concern that becomes judgmental and stifling; and a proud or oversensitive emotional landscape.

But when it is at its best, the results, in women’s lives, speak for themselves. If the image of the Indian female as victim is true, so, too, is its converse: the Indian woman who coexists as a strong survivor, as conqueror, as worshiped goddess made flesh. Indian women have served as prime minister and president. They head banks and large corporations. They are formidable politicians, religious heads, cultural icons, judges, athletes and even godmothers of crime.

Modern India has a muscular democracy and a growing economy, both of which have significantly transformed the lives of women. But female success, in a place like India with complicated social structures and a tradition of the Old Uncle Network, doesn’t happen in isolation. A successful woman is very likely to have had a supportive male in her life: a father, a spouse, a friend, a mentor.

For his part, the Indian male, when nested in family and community, is part of a domestic tapestry that is intricately woven and vital, it seems, to his own sense of well-being. Take that away from him, hurl him away — and a possible result is a man unmoored, lost, adrift and, potentially, a danger to himself and to his world. Disconnection causes social disengagement and despair — and the behavior that is the product of alienation and despair.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/opinion/sunday/the-good-men-of-india.html?_r=3&

On topic, the case seems to be much deeper than initially presented.

 

[luxarific]

Folks are lying if they say Devyani does not have privilege based on her family in spite of her caste standing.

I agree.

This isn't straight forward as it looks like.

It pretty much is. People defending her should be embarrassed.

I have to say I am heartened by the statement of the prosecuting U.S. District Attorney in New York, himself an Indian-American.

One wonders whether any government would not take action regarding false documents being submitted to it in order to bring immigrants into the country. One wonders even more pointedly whether any government would not take action regarding that alleged conduct where the purpose of the scheme was to unfairly treat a domestic worker in ways that violate the law. And one wonders why there is so much outrage about the alleged treatment of the Indian national accused of perpetrating these acts, but precious little outrage about the alleged treatment of the Indian victim and her spouse?

....

Finally, this Office's sole motivation in this case, as in all cases, is to uphold the rule of law, protect victims, and hold accountable anyone who breaks the law - no matter what their societal status and no matter how powerful, rich or connected they are.

Bring it, Mr. Bharara.

 

[Jeels]

Yeah this definitely sounds like a well reasoned reaction

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/devyani-khobragade-is-a-dalit-so-centre-reacted-late-mayawati/440249-3.html (The first time I went here a bunch of popups came up)

Acting like children...

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Haha lethal weapon 2 references immediately. I love it. I literally watched every movie in the series just this past week. And India's reaction to this goes a little far from the sounds of things.

 

[Udham]

It pretty much is. People defending her should be embarrassed.

I have to say I am heartened by the statement of the prosecuting U.S. District Attorney in New York, himself an Indian-American.
Bring it, Mr. Bharara.

But you still haven't read it.

Ok. Now lets wait and see how the drama unfolds.

 

[mavs]

I agree.



It pretty much is. People defending her should be embarrassed.

It's not exactly straightforward. The US-India relationship is very important, and it's pretty shocking that the US would risk this kind of damage over underpaid domestic help. I can't imagine how dodgy visas for maids could be so harmful that multiple US agencies would take this step, so there has to be more to this story. Some ideas:

1. Due to past incidents, there is a serious lack of trust between the US and Indian diplomatic staff
2. Richard has contacts within the US government, or contacts who can influence the actions of the US (seems unlikely, but possible)
3. There are serious problems with the overall US-India relationship
4. DHS has become extremely cranky regarding visa violations and is lashing out

This is a pretty weird story, even if Khobragade is clearly in the wrong.

 

[Hilbert]

It's not exactly straightforward. The US-India relationship is very important, and it's pretty shocking that the US would risk this kind of damage over underpaid domestic help. I can't imagine how dodgy visas for maids could be so harmful that multiple US agencies would take this step, so there has to be more to this story. Some ideas:

1. Due to past incidents, there is a serious lack of trust between the US and Indian diplomatic staff
2. Richard has contacts within the US government, or contacts who can influence the actions of the US (seems unlikely, but possible)
3. There are serious problems with the overall US-India relationship
4. DHS has become extremely cranky regarding visa violations and is lashing out

This is a pretty weird story, even if Khobragade is clearly in the wrong.

6. Because submitting false documents in order to under pay an employee at illegal levels is disgusting and illegal?

The fact that she is a maid is irrelevant, she was an employee.

Multiple US agencies because it involves a foreign citizen in a somewhat diplomatic capacity?

 

[mavs]

6. Because submitting false documents in order to under pay an employee at illegal levels is disgusting and illegal?

The fact that she is a maid is irrelevant, she was an employee.

Multiple US agencies because it involves a foreign citizen in a somewhat diplomatic capacity?

This isn't the first time this has happened with Indian diplomatic staff though. For some reason it was resolved without arresting the diplomat before, and this time it wasn't. So I wonder whether anything is different now.

 

[luxarific]

It's not exactly straightforward. The US-India relationship is very important, and it's pretty shocking that the US would risk this kind of damage over underpaid domestic help. I can't imagine how dodgy visas for maids could be so harmful that multiple US agencies would take this step, so there has to be more to this story. Some ideas:

1. Due to past incidents, there is a serious lack of trust between the US and Indian diplomatic staff
2. Richard has contacts within the US government, or contacts who can influence the actions of the US (seems unlikely, but possible)
3. There are serious problems with the overall US-India relationship
4. DHS has become extremely cranky regarding visa violations and is lashing out

This is a pretty weird story, even if Khobragade is clearly in the wrong.

You do realize that what she did is illegal, yes? She should be deported at the very least. I'm looking forward to all her dirty laundry coming out in court though.

 

[stormplyr]

I am not against the punishing or the arrest, if the diplomat has broken a law, punish her. But rather am against the way she has been handled, considering her official position.

This deserves a read to get some insight,



http://in.news.yahoo.com/devyani-files-paint-picture-of-us-apathy-054935742.html

Yeah, no. Nice try though. Nobody is going to take this post seriously based on your past posts in this thread. I'm not surprised people are actually defending the rich Indian consular. I'm curious to learn what some of your castes are.

 

[Udham]

This isn't the first time this has happened with Indian diplomatic staff though. For some reason it was resolved without arresting the diplomat before, and this time it wasn't. So I wonder whether anything is different now.

Last time the maid absconded on the same day Diplomat was flying back to India...though she did sue him.
There is a serious loophole which is being exploited so they get to stay in the US.

 

[FStop7]

I think there is only one victim here, and that is Ms Devyani.

Ms Richard has betrayed the nation for her dollar dreams. For her it is absolutely not about minimum wages, its about Green card and compensation. She already has her husband and kids flown to US. Only thing she has to do now is serve her former employer's head to her overlords as a trophy.

This has been repeated so many times that its becoming a cliche. Last one which sued Malhotras, accused them of so many things I dont even believe. And yet she stayed with them for 3 years, only the day they were setting sail back to India, she started feeling exploited.

Seek professional help.

 

[AstroNut325]

The mental gymnastics supporting the consular are quite entertaining. And it's also quite entertaining that people are claiming India is behind the consular.

 

[Udham]

I'm curious to learn what some of your castes are.

/Giggles

This must be the typical case in which we all upper caste-ers supporting another upper caste person, right?

 

[besada]

But you still haven't read it.

Ok. Now lets wait and see how the drama unfolds.

I read it. Which part was supposed to convince me that things aren't as they seem? Accusations from the criminal in question? An unwillingness by U.S. authorities to arrest someone for not committing a crime? Seriously, what in that article do you think is going to change anyone's mind?

Rather than cite the entire article, list the parts you think have bearing and make an argument. don't just post an article and then accuse people of not reading it because they don't agre with you.

 

[Syriel]

This isn't the first time this has happened with Indian diplomatic staff though. For some reason it was resolved without arresting the diplomat before, and this time it wasn't. So I wonder whether anything is different now.

This probably could have been settled back in Sept when US State Dept reached out to the Indian consul in an attempt to get things resolved.

If you read the Indian media, they state that the consulate took this as an offense and rebuffed the offer.

Basically Richard (the maid) demanded what was due to her under US law.

Khobragade refused and attempted to bring false extortion charges against the maid, presumably to silence her. Her office also had the maid's Indian Passport revoked.

Revoking a passport is a fairly serious move. Governments do not do it lightly. The last time the US did that to a citizen was with Snowden. Is India's government that afraid of what Richard has to say? Because we know the US government is afraid of Snowden.

It should not noted that the amount the maid asked for ($10,000 US) doesn't come anywhere near the level of a bribe. In fact, it is roughly $10/hr for six months of work at 40 hours a week. Assuming the maid was paid $3.13/hr and worked more than 40 hours per week as is alleged, there is no way the $10,000 could possibly be a "bribe" as Khobragade claims. Rather, it looks a lot like the amount Richard was allegedly underpaid.

Had Khobragade been willing to resolve this back in September when the US State Department reached out, none of us would have ever heard about it.

 

[Kinyou]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Yvonne_Fletcher

Damn. That's just not right

 

[mavs]

Last time the maid absconded on the same day Diplomat was flying back to India...though she did sue him.
There is a serious loophole which is being exploited so they get to stay in the US.

If that loophole requires diplomatic staff to break US law, it seems like the correct way to close the loophole is to stop breaking US law.

This probably could have been settled back in Sept when US State Dept reached out to the Indian consul in an attempt to get things resolved.

If you read the Indian media, they state that the consulate took this as an offense and rebuffed the offer.

Basically Richard (the maid) demanded what was due to her under US law.

Khobragade refused and attempted to bring false extortion charges against the maid, presumably to silence her. Her office also had the maid's Indian Passport revoked.

Revoking a passport is a fairly serious move. Governments do not do it lightly. The last time the US did that to a citizen was with Snowden. Is India's government that afraid of what Richard has to say? Because we know the US government is afraid of Snowden.

It should not noted that the amount the maid asked for ($10,000 US) doesn't come anywhere near the level of a bribe. In fact, it is roughly $10/hr for six months of work at 40 hours a week. Assuming the maid was paid $3.13/hr and worked more than 40 hours per week as is alleged, there is no way the $10,000 could possibly be a "bribe" as Khobragade claims. Rather, it looks a lot like the amount Richard was allegedly underpaid.

Had Khobragade been willing to resolve this back in September when the US State Department reached out, none of us would have ever heard about it.

That's interesting. State is doing damage control now, but we'll get to see whether they are on the same page as the prosecutors when they decide on granting Khobragade full diplomatic immunity.

 

[Udham]

I read it. Which part was supposed to convince me that things aren't as they seem? Accusations from the criminal in question? An unwillingness by U.S. authorities to arrest someone for not committing a crime? Seriously, what in that article do you think is going to change anyone's mind?

Rather than cite the entire article, list the parts you think have bearing and make an argument. don't just post an article and then accuse people of not reading it because they don't agre with you.

I would suggest the timeline bit is good. I couldnt quote easily as Im on mobile.

---
Demand from Richard was 10000$ AND ordinary passport. She was on Official passport and that might be the reason it was revoked when she absconded.

revoking passport is no biggie.

 

[Udham]

If that loophole requires diplomatic staff to break US law, it seems like the correct way to close the loophole is to stop breaking US law.

This is a very good point. And moving forward there should be something done about IBDAs

 

[AndyD]

Bring it, Mr. Bharara.

Indeed.

 

[besada]

I would suggest the timeline bit is good. I couldnt quote easily as Im on mobile.

---
Demand from Richard was 10000$ AND ordinary passport. She was on Official passport and that might be the reason it was revoked when she absconded.

revoking passport is no biggie.

Revoking a passport is no biggie? How ridiculous can you be. Having your passport revoked while you are in a foreign country creates a potential for serious trouble, from jail to deportation.

And, again, what part of the timeline do you find exonerates her, or puts this in a different light? The part where Khobragade tries to file false charges against her housekeeper? The trumped up theft charges Khobragade filed, days after the whole thing started? The part where India could have handled this through diplomatic back channels, but instead decided to get huffy and blow it up into an international incident?

Seriously, which part of that list do you think puts Khobragade or the Indian government in a good light?

 

[stormplyr]

/Giggles

This must be the typical case in which we all upper caste-ers supporting another upper caste person, right?

I was expecting this sort of post.

 

[Pastry]

I would suggest the timeline bit is good. I couldnt quote easily as Im on mobile.

---
Demand from Richard was 10000$ AND ordinary passport. She was on Official passport and that might be the reason it was revoked when she absconded.

revoking passport is no biggie.

You wouldn't demand money if you were illegally underpaid?

And how would you feel if you had your passport revoked? It'd be no biggie?

 

[radios shipping overview]

/Giggles

This must be the typical case in which we all upper caste-ers supporting another upper caste person, right?

More like average Americans inexplicably supporting the lifestyles and living habits of one-percenters.

 

[Syriel]

I would suggest the timeline bit is good. I couldnt quote easily as Im on mobile.

---
Demand from Richard was 10000$ AND ordinary passport. She was on Official passport and that might be the reason it was revoked when she absconded.

revoking passport is no biggie.

Exactly. She was demanding the back pay that she was legally owed (as noted earlier, the calculated sum is based on the promised minimum of $9.75/hr - has Richard demanded back pay to cover the full $4500/month that Khobragade had promised it would have been a much higher amount) and a plain-old, regular, no special privileges passport. The kind of passport that every citizen is entitled to get from their government.

Richard was hardly asking for anything out of order.

She was simply asking to be made whole. She wasn't even asking for the maximum possible dollar claim. She wasn't asking for damages. She wasn't asking for a special passport.

It's difficult to believe that Richard is in this for the money given the rather restrained nature of her claims.

 

[Jeels]

/Giggles

This must be the typical case in which we all upper caste-ers supporting another upper caste person, right?

Well...

Ms Richard has betrayed the nation for her dollar dreams. For her it is absolutely not about minimum wages, its about Green card and compensation. She already has her husband and kids flown to US. Only thing she has to do now is serve her former employer's head to her overlords as a trophy.

Ya, shit like that sounds like how some people equate people on foodstamps to welfare queens. So yes, there are racist undertones to your statements.

To be honest with Indians harping on and on about how modernized they've become and how they are now major players on the world stage, I always thought they were way past caste but it looks like with you referring to yourself as an "upper caste" that is not the case at all.

 

[GaimeGuy]

India has been ignoring foreign diplomats' immunity as of late.. http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/diplomatic-immunity-in-peril/article4526523.ece


Furthermore, isn't this arrest a counter-claim against filings initiated by the indian diplomat within the US? That's an exception where diplomatic immunity is waived under article 32(3) of the vienna convention.

Seems like hte US is trying to make a point to India about the vienna convention, and India is responding by going scorched earth (The Vienna convnetion explicitely gives responsibility for embassy security to the hosting nation).

 

[Lamel]

Seriously, read about the caste system in India if you haven't - the whole caste system dynamics is apartheid-like in nature.

I know what the caste system is like, but people brought it into this thread without any basis at first, just as knee jerk reactions. "India? Must be caste system."

I already agree she should be punished and shouldn't be above the law.

 

[NH Apache]

India has been ignoring foreign diplomats' immunity as of late.. http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/diplomatic-immunity-in-peril/article4526523.ece


Furthermore, isn't this arrest a counter-claim against filings initiated by the indian diplomat within the US? That's an exception where diplomatic immunity is waived under article 32(3) of the vienna convention.

Seems like hte US is trying to make a point to India about the vienna convention, and India is responding by going scorched earth (The Vienna convnetion explicitely gives responsibility for embassy security to the hosting nation).

Is there an international body that enforces the Vienna convention? The UN?

 

[Aylinato]

Is there an international body that enforces the Vienna convention? The UN?

There's the international court, I think? I know there's at least one or two other semi governmental international structures, but cannot recall offhand.

 

[AstroNut325]

I would suggest the timeline bit is good. I couldnt quote easily as Im on mobile.

---
Demand from Richard was 10000$ AND ordinary passport. She was on Official passport and that might be the reason it was revoked when she absconded.

revoking passport is no biggie.

I read that at least three times and it still boggles my mind. How about we try an experiment? Go to a foreign country, and have India revoke your passport. Then report back how insignificant it truly is.

 

[Udham]

Can we please read properly?

1. Few guys are going here like "oh so you are supporting Ms Devyani...so whats your caste?".
So they are implying that all her supporters belong to same caste (presumably upper) such as Ms Devyani.

Forget the caste. It doesnt matter in this case. Neither I brought it up. Just informed people here that Ms Devyani herself comes from Dalit community.
Ok?

2. Again someone made a claim that when passport are revoked it must be Edward Snowden like shit.
So may I ask is it only Edward snowden whose passport was revoked in history of america?
How about other fugitives, history-sheeters, ex-cons?


In Richard's case, she had an "official" passport. As soon as she become an absconder, it was obvious that India like to put a check on her movement.

 

[Piecake]

Can we please read properly?

1. Few guys are going here like "oh so you are supporting Ms Devyani...so whats your caste?".
So they are implying that all her supporters belong to same caste (presumably upper) such as Ms Devyani.

Forget the caste. It doesnt matter in this case. Neither I brought it up. Just informed people here that Ms Devyani herself comes from Dalit community.
Ok?

2. Again someone made a claim that when passport are revoked it must be Edward Snowden like shit.
So may I ask is it only Edward snowden whose passport was revoked in history of america?
How about other fugitives, history-sheeters, ex-cons?


In Richard's case, she had an "official" passport. As soon as she become an absconder, it was obvious that India like to put a check on her movement.

Because people are trying to rationalize why anyone in their right mind would take Devyani's side because its either that or misguided nationalism.

But hey, it makes perfect sense to defend someone who lies about the salary she is paying her servant and then claims 'blackmail' when the servant actually wants to be paid what was ON the visa.

It also makes perfect sense for the New Delhi police to order the maid's arrest (absconded, lol) when, what exactly was her crime? Wanting to be paid what was stated in her contract? How evil!

It makes even more sense for the Indian government to remove barriers from the US embassy that could threaten the lives of those people working there and take actions against perfectly law abiding people.

But hey, I guess some people need to defend their country at all costs so that it doesn't 'lose face'. Problem is, is that anyone who does that looks a whole hell of a lot worse since it makes it seem like India condones Devyani's actions, instead of calling her for what she is, a criminal who lied and falsified government documents and exploited her servant (allegedly).

 

[Tallshortman]

It's not exactly straightforward. The US-India relationship is very important, and it's pretty shocking that the US would risk this kind of damage over underpaid domestic help. I can't imagine how dodgy visas for maids could be so harmful that multiple US agencies would take this step, so there has to be more to this story. Some ideas:

1. Due to past incidents, there is a serious lack of trust between the US and Indian diplomatic staff
2. Richard has contacts within the US government, or contacts who can influence the actions of the US (seems unlikely, but possible)
3. There are serious problems with the overall US-India relationship
4. DHS has become extremely cranky regarding visa violations and is lashing out

This is a pretty weird story, even if Khobragade is clearly in the wrong.

Despite cases where the rich do sometimes get off, the vast majority of Americans are glad to see the case not being swept under the rug just because it's a maid. The diplomat is no more a human being than "underpaid domestic help". Besides, the government doesn't have much legal ground to intervene at this point. If it's found that the diplomat is innocent, great. Otherwise she should be treated like any other person since she doesn't have full diplomatic immunity.