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Indy Game Development: any GAF'er ever make their own game, or even make money on it?
- Thread starter Mengy
- Start date
I did. It might not be ideal but it's fun. A 3D engine doesn't have to be that complex, depending on your requirements, and if you have some general coding experience and some knowledge of 3d graphics it's possible to get something up and running quite quickly and then build from that. Though I started making my engine a couple of years ago, long before I started coding for iOS and android, but I haven't really spent that much time on it in total.
And honestly, I get to spend so little time on coding compared to asset creation now that I'm just happy when I need to fix something in the engine
What tools do you recommend to someone learning C? That's the language we're being taught at University, and I'm just wondering what engine is most suited to it and also what the best direction to head in is for someone who isn't all that great at programming.
I've got experience in web based languages (HTML, PHP, JavaScript) if that helps.
Also I'd like to be able to work towards developing games for mobile platforms if that changes anything.
Thanks for any advice!
I've got experience in web based languages (HTML, PHP, JavaScript) if that helps.
Also I'd like to be able to work towards developing games for mobile platforms if that changes anything.
Thanks for any advice!
Do you have any experience with Java? If so that would be good. The HTML and PHP won't really help you and the JavaScript will help a little bit. And are you learning C or Objective C? A place that has great books is oreilly.com. They have great starter books in a lot of languages and they have a nice book on design patterns that you should look into once you learn a language.
It's straight up C I'm learning right now, so wouldn't it make more sense to move onto C++ next? That's what I've been told anyway, I was originally planning to take up Java, is it more useful in game development then?
C++ is more useful for developing big games, but you can develop games in Java or C#. Java and C# are very similar and easier to develop in than C++. C# right now though has XNA environment and Mono has environments based around Opengl.
Learning C well is going to benefit you immensely in the long run. Following up with C++ is a good idea, but you could also turn around and learn Objective-C if you want to work iOS. Java is easy to pick-up if you've been exposed to OOP, so you can kind of pick when or if you want to get into it.
C# is popular. XNA, Windows Phone, etc.
I agree that going on to C++ would make the most sense. Its more of a bitch doing things in C++ than in java or C#, but if he gets C++ down he'll be able to pick anything up. I haven't really been messing with C++ recently, but I remember array manipulation being way harder in C++ than in C#/Java because of referencing/dereferencing and you have to garbage collect manually.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Give them both a try, but I would -guess- Unity might be nicer for you since you're not afraid of scripting. I got the impression Construct was a drag-and-drop kind of development system, but I don't know much about it beyond that. Apparently it supports Python scripting.
If you go Unity though, you will probably need to mess with some simple 3D models, or mess with how to get 2D going. Either way, they're free and you should be able to find tutorials that will literally get you some simple game going in a weekend. Once you're past that point, hopefully you will have a better idea which one you like better.
Sounds like a plan. Thanks very much for the input.
AlphaTwo00
Member
Flat-shaded
Are there one man squads on unity? Right now I'm working on this "small project" by myself, and all the memory management, pipeline planning and what not is totally overwhelming. I was sold on the initial idea of getting things on screen as fast as possible with these tool packages, but the gap between "drawing stuff on screen" to "proper game, with menus, interface, etc" still seems way too big for some odd reason.
As far as I know neither C/C++ nor Java are used in existing "engines" per se, like Unity or UDK, but you can do sprite work with either one by using a library. C/C++ has SFML, Java has Slick 2D, and there are probably others as well. Depends on what you want to do.
Flat-Shaded is more awesome, but it must be harder to call as your "choosen style" instead of a "well .. i suck so my models look like this" look
Wireframe while looking worst, it pass the "choose art style" best than the flat one
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Indie-GAF, how do you stay focused?
I keep wondering off to vidja.
Help
I keep wondering off to vidja.
Help
Indie-GAF, how do you stay focused?
I keep wondering off to vidja.
Help
I just started work on an old project I've been wanting to do for ages, but never managed to finish. (It's also been over a year since I've done anything which even remotely smells of programming, apart from a few quick commandline tools)
I'm making progress for once, mainly due to the deadline I've set myself. "I will have a working prototype by the end of the month with these, these, these and these features." Now I just code and knock a feature (or one of the things the feature really needs, like better collission detection etc) off the list every day or two.
Indie-GAF, how do you stay focused?
I keep wondering off to vidja.
Help
In all honesty, I think it's about planning. When you know what you're doing, and what comes next, each step done is rewarding + you don't lose time. Because after all, making a game is a long process and especially if you're alone or a small team. Without planning you can't stay focused and work effectively for almost a year.
Indie-GAF, how do you stay focused?
I keep wondering off to vidja.
Help
Similar to Turfster. Write ideas down as soon as you get them, put them in a document. That way you don't get creator's block and can keep going rather than sitting down to think (which never works). All your good ideas will come when you're taking a shower or something, not at hour 3 of a coding sprint (though you might find out it doesn't work like you thought). Having a well of written ideas helps because you can also start prioritizing. You might notice you need X in place before Y and again having it right there to keep you on track and to make the game as interesting and playable at all stages makes it easy because as soon as you ask "what's next" you'll lose motivation.
Getting in a key feature instead of wasting all your time on art can also boost motivation. I just got sideways digging into my game and something about it helped it click and I was very pleased with myself. Seeing those milestone check marks and the game suddenly spring to life is a great way to feel good. Just keep them small and granular. Something you can sit down and work through in an hour or two.
Also my experiment this time is to get builds out to GAF. I think getting feedback and having something "out there" should also make me more motivated.
This has happened to me a LOT. It's pretty much why I plan my stuff now.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Yeah, this.
Also: don't stress about it looking Official until the time comes. Trying to make a skeleton design doc is hell if your idea is still evolving. My group's first project got delayed about a year because of this.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Thanks guys, it's definitely something I'm really struggling with.
I'll sit down to a blank .cs and stare for a few minutes and just durp -- then launch battlefield 3 / league of legends.
The next day at work I curse myself because of all that progress I could have had done already.
I'll sit down to a blank .cs and stare for a few minutes and just durp -- then launch battlefield 3 / league of legends.
The next day at work I curse myself because of all that progress I could have had done already.
Can anyone point me towards any Java tutorials or books that you would personally recommend? I've been curious about programming for a little while (mainly for games, but general purpose is important if it can get me a job) since I don't have a creative bone in my body and really want a hobby of some kind. A friend of mine on the forums is a coder and has expressed interest in producing Android games, it would be cool to join him.
Even if I just end up making a simple old space shooter, my first goal, where are the best places to learn?
Even if I just end up making a simple old space shooter, my first goal, where are the best places to learn?
Teknopathetic
Member
"I'll sit down to a blank .cs and stare for a few minutes and just durp -- then launch battlefield 3 / league of legends."
I never even get to opening the code editor. Though, when I do open the code editor, it's straight to business. My problem with motivation is that I hate looking at an ugly game, I really can't stand having placeholder stuff in there, but the stuff I make isn't much better than cubes and spheres anyway.
I never even get to opening the code editor. Though, when I do open the code editor, it's straight to business. My problem with motivation is that I hate looking at an ugly game, I really can't stand having placeholder stuff in there, but the stuff I make isn't much better than cubes and spheres anyway.
Try to use something like Getting Things Done, break what you want to do into manageable goals and be able to check them off when you complete them. Write down the things you want to do and don't let them clutter up your head. A to-do list is much more reliable than your brain.
I have to echo the sentiments that having a list of things you want to accomplish (in piece-meal fashion - items should be small enough that you can make significant progress on at least one of them when you sit down and start coding) helps a lot.
For me, it's the difference between loading up the code editor, humming and hawing about what I should do now, and then just doing something else, versus loading up the code editor, humming and hawing about what I should do now, and then remembering I have a list of what I want to get done!
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/
I can't say for certain if it's any good (sorry, I know you wanted personal recommendations here) but if I'm wrong with this suggestion I'm sure someone will say so
. Also keep in mind the most important thing: no matter what book/tutorial/video series you use, the most important thing is practice. Be sure to keep coming up with simple projects to design (not necessarily games to begin with) and do them to the best of your abilities based on what you've learned thus far.
For me, it's the difference between loading up the code editor, humming and hawing about what I should do now, and then just doing something else, versus loading up the code editor, humming and hawing about what I should do now, and then remembering I have a list of what I want to get done!
You might want to start with the "official" tutorials. They probably don't go anywhere near as in-depth with complete beginner stuff as a book might, but they're likely worth a glance at least:
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/
I can't say for certain if it's any good (sorry, I know you wanted personal recommendations here) but if I'm wrong with this suggestion I'm sure someone will say so
. Also keep in mind the most important thing: no matter what book/tutorial/video series you use, the most important thing is practice. Be sure to keep coming up with simple projects to design (not necessarily games to begin with) and do them to the best of your abilities based on what you've learned thus far.You might want to start with the "official" tutorials. They probably don't go anywhere near as in-depth with complete beginner stuff as a book might, but they're likely worth a glance at least:
http://docs.oracle.com/javase/tutorial/
I can't say for certain if it's any good (sorry, I know you wanted personal recommendations here) but if I'm wrong with this suggestion I'm sure someone will say so
Oh no, don't be sorry! I have a bad history with official tutorials for software etc, that's all. I often find it very unhelpful, going back to stuff like Dark Basic. Will definitely go through these then.
I'm the worst person to answer this, but allocate part of your schedule ("This Saturday afternoon I will spend 4 hours focusing on an XNA tutorial", or something like that), or set a deadline. Make yourself sit down and at least start, and that can help keep you going for a bit if you're like me. Try doing things like ludum dare (next one in April?), or global game jam (in a couple of weeks), or the stencyl competition (ends in a couple of days), or the unity competition that already ended. That will give you a hard deadline, where you theoretically put something together no matter what and hopefully learn things along the way.Indie-GAF, how do you stay focused?
I keep wondering off to vidja.
Help
*edit* Like other people have said, I also try to keep TODO lists and game ideas even if they're just in simple text files. That way if I get distracted for a week I still can come back and read what I was planning to do next.
AlphaTwo00
Member
This. I've got stickies on the osx dashboard with a list of any ideas that I need to do. They range from simple features that I needed to do like "load icons on buttons" or bugs that I run into and don't feel like fixing right away, to macro features to be implemented later. This way, even if I don't feel like tackling one feature, I can still go at something else, so I'm always making progress.
BudokaiMR2
Member
I just need time. I have finally got a solid plan for the prototype I want to build.
Hopefully I can bribe some of my coders with bottles of whiskey so they will help me build it.
But yeah I just wish my actual job would start to stabilize to the point where I am not constantly working/testing games whether I am at work or home. I want to work on something on my own in my freetime.
Not sure when that is gonna happen though. heh
Hopefully I can bribe some of my coders with bottles of whiskey so they will help me build it.
But yeah I just wish my actual job would start to stabilize to the point where I am not constantly working/testing games whether I am at work or home. I want to work on something on my own in my freetime.
Not sure when that is gonna happen though. heh
Hey guys. I'm thinking about doing a minecraft x diablo clone... and this thread has made realize that, maybe I can get something off the ground by myself.
Of course the problem is the same as everyone else; minimal programming experience... but I just feel as though if I could get basic 3D and blocks in place, then I'll be able to build on that in a very significant way.
Question is; what programming language would you guys go for with that kinda game? Unity*flash... HTML5? C++/C# or Java?
Of course the problem is the same as everyone else; minimal programming experience... but I just feel as though if I could get basic 3D and blocks in place, then I'll be able to build on that in a very significant way.
Question is; what programming language would you guys go for with that kinda game? Unity*flash... HTML5? C++/C# or Java?
Alexios
Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
That makes no sense... the models can be qually good, or bad, in either mode... And doing them smooth shaded instead of flat would be like flipping a switch... Neither choice says anything about the skill of the person doing them and both lack UV mapping and texturing which is what would need more time and additional skills...
Anyway, I'd go for flat shaded but you could always let people switch between smooth, flat and wireframe...
Teknopathetic
Member
I don't think he's saying flat-shaded says something about the skills of the person making the models, only that it seems more apparent that someone deliberately chose wireframe graphics as an art style which I think is a fair assessment.
Flat-shaded. It's one of the reasons I think the original Star Fox is superior to the sequels. That and the music.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
Everyone hates these, but they are the best way to cut the slackers from the vine.
Acrylic7
Member
I downloaded Gamemaker lite a few days ago. Going to try my hand at making an rpg. If I like how things turn out I will purchase the full version.
My only problem so far is my procrastination.
At the moment I'm studying up on my pixel art. It doesn't seem that hard to me. Also trying to create another story without using one of my OC's. But since I already have a story and world for them I might just use them. ehh/
My only problem so far is my procrastination.
At the moment I'm studying up on my pixel art. It doesn't seem that hard to me. Also trying to create another story without using one of my OC's. But since I already have a story and world for them I might just use them. ehh/
Indie-GAF, how do you stay focused?
I keep wondering off to vidja.
Help
My biggest problem is that I just get sick of my projects after a while. I tend to make quite traditional games that needs a lot of content and x number of levels before I can release them. I keep thinking I should make games with lots of random generated stuff or games that can go on forever without much content, but those kinds of games doesn't really interest me in general so I can never get really excited for it in the first place, and then I sit cursing myself for it when I'm drudging through leveldesign and environment art for weeks.
I just can't imagine how some people, like a lot of the big name indie developers, can keep working alone on the same thing for 3-5 years. Even when I've worked in big projects, I start getting really sick of the game after six months or so and faster when I'm working alone. For Helium Boy I only spent about 2-3 months on it (apart from the work I did on it years ago when I made the first version) but it felt like forever and I was ready to give up several times, and I'm starting to feel the same way about my new game.
I just think about the hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of hours of work, and how quitting would be throwing that all away. = (
You probably should. Any time you can cut in your production probably = rewarding.
Have you tried making smaller games? 2D games?
I have a similar "problem" to your but I find myself to really making "NES-like" games and such smaller projects, as long it's of a genre of games I love.
This. I came close to putting about 60 hours into my Flash contest entry, and by the end there was just absolutely no shortage of things I was driving myself to do. The game had long since stopped being "fun" for me to play, much less work on (as the mechanics were done with, the levels were made, etc) thanks to bugs starting to pop up seemingly everywhere.
But also, there is something to be said for not forcing yourself into the act of game-making. Before that contest, there was no hurry to do much of anything, and other than programming just to program, I wasn't working on anything. Then, it just sort of happened that I got a spurt of real motivation, and went to town over the course of 5 days. I was so focused I barely slept.
So maybe for some people, it's about just waiting for that motivation or that one great idea. For others, it's probably accruing enough experience in their language of choice so that they can make that great game, with only technical ability holding them back.
But if you're stuck with an empty .c, .cpp, .cs, .java, dot whatever file, it's really probably not time to be working on that yet.
edit: By the way, I really recommend that anyone who has that great idea and is just learning to program to stick to console-apps and write a few simple games first. BlackJack (real blackjack, 52 cards, suit names etc), Tic-Tac-Toe, Battleship, and maybe a text-adventure are all great ways to start, and don't require a single graphic from start to finish. They're a lot more challenging than they seem at first, and teach you a lot about little things that you'll absolutely need to know when you go at that 10,000 line+ game.
Also, don't get hung up on graphics too early in the development stage, especially if you're like me and are rather shit at art 
It's a lot easier to just make your game feature complete with programmer art and then just replace the graphics/add sound/whatever.
Bonus: it's also a lot easier to find artists to work with you if you have something to actually show them.
It's a lot easier to just make your game feature complete with programmer art and then just replace the graphics/add sound/whatever. Bonus: it's also a lot easier to find artists to work with you if you have something to actually show them.
I used to make lot's of 2d games back in the day but I had the same problem then. Once the main mechanics were done I started loosing interest. Of course I never had the same pressure to make lot's of content until I started selling games on iPhone/android market.
I've been a bit tempted to do something 2d again soon, but there's really quite enough indie devs making pseudo-retro games already, and honestly the graphics in my new game are so quick to make that I don't even know if making a nes style game would be much faster anyway, (apart from animation that is).
Maybe I just need to team up with a leveldesigner, since that's were I usually get stuck.
Emphasis added, this is very much the way I feel. I like 2D games, I buy them, play them regularly enough, but when it actually comes to making them myself I feel completely disenchanted about the entire ordeal knowing 1) everyone else is doing them, 2) everyone else is doing them better and 3) nobody is doing 3D well. It doesn't even mean that I do 3D well, since I'm no artist, but when it actually comes to working in 3D space with a powerful enough API I feel relatively at home, and I feel like I'm using my skills as a programmer and mathematics ability to do things that 2D developers don't necessarily want to do, and in almost all cases cannot do without that Z axis.
jump_button
Banned
A little update just about done making a Prototype so the basic stuff up and working just need tweaking and plan out the platforming and puzzles
its not being distracted for me and i always try and put thing off
This is probably the biggest hurdle for the indie developer: motivation (or lack of).
I have never finished a project. I usually quit when the mechanics are in place. I guess the motivation goes away when the fun part is made.
I'm currently working on a project for about 14 months now and although I'm tired of it, I'm not gonna quit. It's a XNA game tha't I can't even put on XBox indie market (the program is not avaliable in my country), so probably the game will never get published. I'm not really sure what are my motivations at this stage except to prove to myself that I can finish something.
I'm really looking forward for the release date (probably in 3 months from now) and show it to the GAF community and get some feedback.
AcceptableGhost
Member
Nearly opposite for me, the most fun for me is when it gets to the point where it is just me and an editor making levels.
You can release it on pc. You can get it on other systems like the iphone/android/mac if you port it to mono.
AcceptableGhost
Member
edit: you fixed who you quoted
Just to beat the motivation/self-discipline horse to death, that was one thing that really impressed me about Notch. I'm sure he has flaws and faults and isn't the best programmer ever and some people hate him etc. etc. etc., but watching the last two Ludum Dare competitions, especially the one where he wrote the pseudo-doom engine by hand, he seems to have crazy self-discipline, at least for short-term projects.
In part I imagine it is because he has enough experience to remember how things like 3D engines and tiled RPG engines are made, so he does not have to sit there too long and look everything up on the internet, but in part he just sat there and MADE everything, apparently ignoring crazy people on the chat and whatever else was going on, ending up with a fairly complex game from the 48-hour period.
In part I imagine it is because he has enough experience to remember how things like 3D engines and tiled RPG engines are made, so he does not have to sit there too long and look everything up on the internet, but in part he just sat there and MADE everything, apparently ignoring crazy people on the chat and whatever else was going on, ending up with a fairly complex game from the 48-hour period.
Once I get into the editor I waste hours per week just reshaping things or even restarting whole things because I want it perfect. If you do it long enough your whole view of perfect starts getting changed tho, and when you look back at your so called perfect creation vs the original you created you just want to punch yourself in the head...
I have this experience so many times :/
cooljeanius
Member
Looks inspired by Cave Story.
A little update just about done making a Prototype so the basic stuff up and working just need tweaking and plan out the platforming and puzzles
its not being distracted for me and i always try and put thing off
I think he was referring to porting your XNA effort since you can't put it on XBLIG.
jump_button
Banned
yeah a little I think its the white face and big colour eyes, the Gameplay nothing like Cave Story but, and its how I draw alot
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