• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Institutional Racism: The continued war on Black America

Status
Not open for further replies.

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,709
4
0
36
Nowhere, PA
These days with the endless tragedies we read in the news about murdered African Americans and slain police officers, I think it'd be a bit instructive if we can have a discussion on exactly how we got here. Where exactly does this anger come from? Why does it inspire some people to commit unspeakable acts? How do we fix what's broken?

In this topic, I encourage people to share their own experiences as a minority in this country. I hope people can post more statistics that I can add over time to the OP, in order to flesh out exactly how bad it really is. I think part of the problem is that depending on how and where you were raised, it is often quite difficult to comprehend how bad things remain. It's not just "social justice warriors" trying to find something to complain about. It's not simply lazy folk trying to avoid taking personal responsibility for their failures. It is most often about a country that has hardwired discrimination into its very marrow, to the point that it insidiously chips away at the opportunities minorities have in the country.

First a quick overview. I'm going to focus on the statistics and awful realities vs. black America, but they are not the only disenfranchised peoples. The only people worse off from a statistical point of view are Native Americans, and that's a whole other topic of statistics I can draw and put together. It's really bad there. And other groups, such as Hispanics, also frequently face horrendous institutional racism. But for the sake of demonstrating how bad it is and in order to stay relevant to the current events going on in this country, I'm going to focus on Black America.

___________________________________

A STATISTICAL PRIMER
___________________________________



● 60% of people in prison are ethnic minorities; 1 in 10 Black males in their 30s are incarcerated

(Note: Consider the implications. In order to impact change and get the draconian approach to justice fixed, you need to vote. Guess what you can't do when you're a felon?)



● 2027 black males are incarcerated per every 100,000 black individuals
● African Americans given 20% longer sentences for similar crimes as white individuals; 14.5% if you exclude sentences of probation.



● Young black males significantly more likely to be killed by Police (31 in a million v. 1.5 in a million); statistics show that the slayings are also done by mostly White Officers. But even Black Officers who do end up killing someone in the line of duty do so at a rate of 78% black.

(Note: I recommend going to this link and reading it, and explains why the difference is not merely related to, say, higher instances of crime in those communities)







● Black income gap, median income, unemployment, poverty rate is all disastrous compared to other ethnic groups. Wealth disparity between Blacks and Whites grew even larger during the Great Recession.




● Black children far more likely to live in areas of concentrated poverty; schools today are MORE segregated than they were in the 1980s.



● Blacks with a clean criminal background still have a massive handicap, even vs. White job seekers with a criminal background.



● Black folk who attended college about as likely to be hired as a White high school dropout.



● Blacks are far more likely to be selected for Capital Prosecution, aka Death Penalty. Literally, the country is systematically and institutionally choosing to kill Blacks.




● Mandatory Minimum Sentencing laws in this country crushing Minority communities; prosecution hugely disproportionately impacts Black and Hispanic communities.
● The Drug War has destroyed Black communities, irrevocably placing the government in a perpetual war with minorities despite a remarkably similar rate of drug use amongst most ethnicity including White.
● United States Sentencing Commission Report on Mandatory Minimum Sentencing (spoiler: It's screwed)



(Note:college students on the left, police participants on the right)

● The students were also shown photographs alongside descriptions of various crimes and asked to assess the age and innocence of white, black or Latino boys ages 10 to 17. The students overestimated the age of blacks by an average of 4.5 years and found them more culpable than whites or Latinos, particularly when the boys were matched with serious crimes, the study found. Researchers used questionnaires to assess the participants’ prejudice and dehumanization of blacks. They found that participants who implicitly associated blacks with apes thought the black children were older and less innocent. (*Credit: RDreamer)



● Black Students suspended more than three times as much as their white classmates (*Credit: RDreamer)




● From Punishing Race: A Continuing American Dilemma statistics above. It covers some of the same ground as The New Jim Crow, but enough different information that it is also worth reading. This can be illustrated even more strikingly, as in this graphic posted on The Atlantic's website by comparing it to other countries and the United States generally. (Credit: Mumei)



● And this all has to be read in the context of the decline in violent crime generally. (Credit: Mumei)

___________________________________

A BROADER HISTORICAL CONTEXT
___________________________________

By Mumei

Just as a caveat, this is just an overview of the things I could think of by the time I stopped rambling at two in the morning (damn you, Ami!). I'm sure there's something important that I'll forget to mention, and Lord knows there's more I don't know about yet.

I'm currently reading Eric Foner's Reconstruction: America's Unfinished Revolution, 1863 - 1877, so out of inspiration I'll start ... just before there. The point that I made - that the gaps in wealth and imprisonment are not the product of individual choices so much as they are public policy and individual - isn't a story that starts in the twentieth century. It has to start with slavery. And while it is a truism that a slave is unpaid, the fact of the matter is that American chattel slavery made the textile-based industrial revolution possible, by providing nearly 90% of the cotton at their peak. It was American slaves whose individual production rate near quadrupled to match the increases of production at British textile mills. It was American slaves who were responsible for 60% of the value of all U.S. exports on the eve of the Civil War. And slaves weren't blind to this; from Foner:

We has a right to the land where we are located. For why? I tell you. Our wives, our children, our husbands, has been sold over and over again to purchase the lands we now locates upon; for that reason we have a divine right to the land. . . . And den didn't we clear the land, and raise de crops, ob corn, ob cotton, ob tobacco, ob rice, ob sugar, ob everything. And den didn't dem large cities in the North grow up on de cotton and de sugars and de rice dat we made? . . . I say dey has grown rich, and my people is poor.​

In fact, there were many slaves who believed that there would be division of land, because of arguments like this and because of experiences during the war such as Sherman's Field Order 15, which set aside the Sea Islands and a portion of the rice coast south of Charleston for the exclusive settlement of blacks. The freedmen believed that the land was theirs; Sherman said later that it was intended to be temporary. When the freedmen were finally told that they had to vacate the land, and were asked if they could "lay aside their bitter feelings, and to become reconciled to their old masters," the committee of freedmen responded:

General, we wants Homesteads, we were promised Homesteads by the government. If it does not carry out its promises its agents made us, if the government haveing concluded to befriend its late enemies and to neglect to observe the principles of common faith between its self and us its allies in the war you said was over, now takes away from them all right to the soil they stand upon save such as they can get by again working for your late and their all time enemies . . . we are left in a more unpleasant condition than our former . . . You will see this is not the condition of really freemen.

You ask us to forgive the land owners of our island. You only lost your right arm in war and might forgive them. The man who tied me to a tree and gave me 39 lashes and who stripped and flogged my mother and my sister and who will not let me stay in his empty hut except I will do his planting and be satisfied with his price and who combines with others to keep away land from me well knowing I would not have anything to do with him if I had land of my own - that man, I cannot well forgive. Does it look as if he has forgiven me, seeing how he tries to keep me in a condition of helplessness?​

And indeed, they saw things clearly. So, we have former slaves who have received none of the fruits of generations of labor without which this country would not have been possible. These same former slaves collectively have very little money with which to purchase land, even at depressed Reconstruction era prices, and this is such a cash poor region in the first place, and even good wages for agricultural work leaves workers desperately poor. The solution that worked for both sides at the time - though far better for the former masters - was sharecropping. But whatever the merits of sharecropping, its actual effect was to leave millions of black people in a state of debt peonage. By 1935, 77 percent of black farmers were landless (and half of white farmers, too). If you're interested in a lyrical, on-the-ground view of what life was like in the South at the turn of the twentieth-century, W.E.B. DuBois' The Souls of Black Folk is the place to start.

In spite of all of the obstacles arrayed against them achieving tenant farming, let alone ownership, black people still succeeded in acquiring land. By 1910, black farmers held title to approximately 16 million acres of land, and by 1920 there were 925,000 black farms in the country. This was the peak, and though there was a precipitous drop to 681,790 by 1940, this was attributable in part to ordinary causes. And yet. Between 1940 and 1974, the number of black farms dropped far more precipitously - by 93 percent - to 45,594. By 1997, it had dropped to a mere 18,000 black farmers who collectively owned less than 3 million acres - and if black farmers had left agriculture at the same rate as white farmers since 1920, there would still be 300,000 left. What's more, it was quite evident that this was not the result of ordinary market forces, but deliberate racial discrimination on the part of the USDA and the Farmers Home Administration. A Government Accountability Office report found that in 1994, 94 percent of all county committees had no minority or female representation, and had nearly 500 complaints, half of which were more than two years old. This was accomplished by preventing minority representation on county committees, by delaying, refusing, or preventing black loan applications; by giving enough black farmers enough rope to hang themselves financially, and then not the additional loans they would need to allow them to take advantage the opportunities they'd been presented with - in effect forcing them to sell to white farmers. There's extensive documentation of this discrimination, and the near total destruction of the black farmer is a product of that same obsessive Reconstruction-era desire to see black people as a landless, dependent class.

Of course, during the 1910s, a great many black people were traveling to the North. This is the Great Migration, when six million African Americans left the rural South for the North between 1910 and 1960. This did not go particularly well; read Douglass Massey's American Apartheid for first for an overview of the rioting and violence that took place. For illustrative purposes: Between 1917 and 1921, a black home was bombed every two weeks in Chicago. In additional to extralegal attempts at erecting new racial barriers, there were numerous methods through white-controlled institutions. As a measure of their success, I'd like to note at the outset that in the North before the migration, dissimilarity indices averaged 59.9 - and by 1940 this was 89.2. This means that 89.2 percent of African Americans would have to move in order to create complete (100%) integration (which as it turns out isn't what black people or white people say they want, but black people are interested in considerably more integration than white people have been willing to countenance). I also hasten to note the Taeubers' study, who found that contrary to the myths that white Northerners had told themselves about how the black migrants differed from the Northern-born black people, migrants post-World War II “were not of lower socioeconomic status than the resident Negro population. Indeed, in educational attainment, Negro in-migrants to northern cities were equal to or slightly higher than the resident white population.” Not only that, but they were also more likely to be married and to remain married, less likely to bear children out of wedlock, less likely to head single-parent households than Northern-born blacks, and more likely to be employed. The fault for the creation of the ghetto cannot be laid at the feet of black people who lacked the education, the desire to work, and the middle-class values necessary for them to succeed and integrate into the mainstream of Northern cities.

More of Mumei's analysis

The Patrol

The Burnings of Schools, Killings of Voters, and the Spread of Misinformation

The Murder of Claude Neal

Lynching

A First Chance at Liberty

The Unfinished Monument of Denmark Vesey

Color-Blind Racism

The Taint of "A Birth of a Nation"

From Regular Racism to "Scientific" Racism

More Reading Material

(Credit: Cesspoolofhatred)

___________________________________

WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
___________________________________


In another neoGAF topic certain posters complained about why African Americans always seem to make everything about race when they don't see "color." But this color blindness is a unique privilege of White Americans. As you can see from the above, there is no way a Black American can choose not to see color. It's built into the very fabric of this country.

When just being Black means you're significantly more likely to be born into poverty, it impacts future opportunities. When being Black means you're more likely to be killed by law enforcement, to be segregated, to be put in jail and for longer periods of times... it impacts the possibilities in these communities. We haven't even discussed how White Flight in the 70s and 80s destroyed Black businesses/economies in some communities, and that's just as important a factor.

I used this example:

Amir0x said:
If you live 20 miles from New York City and your friend lives 200 miles from New York City, given equal traffic conditions and weather conditions, who will make it to New York City first?

Ok, that's easy. Now, let's say we go further.

Let's say we break your friends car down a bit, so it's barely running. And then we make sure that we strategically place police throughout the route, so that the person gets pulled over a few times. And then let's say we give your friend a map with wrong directions, so they intentionally get lost. And don't forget they're still 200 miles away.

How many of these people driving to NYC are going to give up trying to get to the city? A lot. Some will still make it. Others will have their car break down and get frustrated; someone else will get too angry after they get stopped by the police for the fifth time; someone else will give up when they end up getting lost. The end result after this crucible of obstacles is that your friends given these conditions are a whole lot less likely to make it to NYC.

A white person who is born into privilege literally 'earns' for free a billion different free passes in a society which is built around opening doors for them. They 'earn' what they get, but they 'earn' it within the structure of a society who has made it a crapload easier for them. It doesn't mean it will still be absent difficulty for them all, it doesn't mean everyone of them will be successful. It just means a whole heckuva lot more are going to make it through the filter.

It's bad, folks. And ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. If you want to understand the anger with Black Americans, here is where you should start: by taking a moment to imagine what it would be like to walk in their shoes.

African Americans live in a country where history class discuss World History - Greeks, Romans, Britain, Russia - and leave out the Africa altogether, outside of Egypt. Where 80% of the teachers they'll encounter are white. Where 4% of computer science bachelor degrees go to African Americans. In any field I can go to, I can show you a fucked statistic for African Americans.

But how do we fix this? There's a host of potential ways to do so, which includes ending mandatory minimum sentencing laws and ending the Drug War, but that's just a drop in the bucket. What would you guys think needs to change to start fixing this awful problem?
 

Pimpwerx

Member
Jun 7, 2004
26,261
1
0
305 'til I die
I don't need stats to tell me what I've lived. I've been accused of stealing my own bike when I was a teen. I've been beatup by cops and dumped in a hospital (with no arrest report) when I visited Dallas. I've also been arrested on bogus charges that later got dismissed. Racism is alive and real. I never experienced racism until I came to the US, and it'll never make sense to me. Where I came from, blacks are in the majority. So you can imagine, I feel some kinda way about this. PEACE.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Jun 18, 2009
62,408
10
1,115
I saw one of those insufferable clips of Fox the other day where they were talking about "why aren't these men there for their children" and I was just screaming to myself "maybe because they all got thrown in prison dumbasses"
 

Necrovex

Member
Jun 7, 2010
9,355
0
0
Killing Stop and Frisk would be a good first step. Seeing how in New York, a person can carry weed on them, if they don't take it out, yet if a cop forces a person to take out the weed, it becomes a crime then. That's pretty fucked up when these stops are usually focused on blacks.

But yeah, ending the Drug War would go a long way. To really have an impact though, people need to realize our criminal justice system is built to be extremely racist. If we, as a society, ignore this, the system will find a new way to punish non-whites.

Also, I appreciate you made this thread, Amir0x.
 

Daingurse

Member
Nov 21, 2012
16,743
3
570
AZ
Extremely impressive OP Amirox. I think there are a lot of things that need to be changed, that are outside of laws though. How do you change the prejudices and biases within people? I was raised to be very cautious around cops, because I'm a big tall black male. I think my very existence is seen as a threat in some law enforcers eyes, due to any number of preconceived biases or prejudices.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,709
4
0
36
Nowhere, PA
I don't need stats to tell me what I've lived. I've been accused of stealing my own bike when I was a teen. I've been beatup by cops and dumped in a hospital (with no arrest report) when I visited Dallas. I've also been arrested on bogus charges that later got dismissed. Racism is alive and real. I never experienced racism until I came to the US, and it'll never make sense to me. Where I came from, blacks are in the majority. So you can imagine, I feel some kinda way about this. PEACE.

Statistics here are the type of thing White America needs to grasp just how insane it is for Black America. Black America doesn't need them, though, they live it. As you say, from your own experiences, there's no need for numbers charted on a graph... if you walk down and get beaten by cops for no reason, the anger is going to bubble to the surface. It's injustice!

I saw one of those insufferable clips of Fox the other day where they were talking about "why aren't these men there for their children" and I was just screaming to myself "maybe because they all got thrown in prison dumbasses"

Watching Fox News discuss any issue of race is infuriating. Probably best not to :(
 

Lynux

Member
Apr 26, 2008
73
0
0
I am in the process of reading Racism without Racists, a lot of this information seems familiar. I would recommend it to anyone wanting to have a deeper understanding of what Amir0x posted.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,709
4
0
36
Nowhere, PA
Killing Stop and Frisk would be a good first step. Seeing how in New York, a person can carry weed on them, if they don't take it out, yet if a cop forces a person to take out the weed, it becomes a crime then. That's pretty fucked up when these stops are usually focused on blacks.

But yeah, ending the Drug War would go a long way. To really have an impact though, people need to realize our criminal justice system is built to be extremely racist. If we, as a society, ignore this, the system will find a new way to punish non-whites.

Also, I appreciate you made this thread, Amir0x.

Stop and Frisk is a good one, yeah. One of the things I really think needs to change is how we access Higher Education in this country. We cannot forever go on having these prohibitively expensive institutions, the cost needs to be faaaar more heavily subsidized in some way.

Because as we can see if you're a minority and you are already being crushed by economic divides and institutional racism, that system is necessarily going to be even more unfair to you.
 

Zonar

Member
Feb 12, 2006
2,633
0
1,490
fox-walker.com
As a black man with a bachelor's degree, I am constantly hurt and frustrated with how this country treats us. The more I succeed, the less minorities i see around me, and I'm not even a VP of my company yet. Just middle management.
 

J10

Banned
Aug 2, 2010
11,263
0
0
No one who needs to read and understand and accept any of the information provided here is going to. Appreciate the effort all the same.
 

Spinluck

Member
Mar 29, 2012
31,206
0
0
Nice try Evilore!
Being black has put me in a bunch of uncomfortable situations that I had no control over, yes.

I hope someday when old white dudes aren't in charge of everything, that things might change for the better.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,709
4
0
36
Nowhere, PA
No one who needs to read and understand and accept any of the information provided here is going to. Appreciate the effort all the same.

That's pretty cynical, but even if you're right (and I think everyone should read and toss ideas back and forth over the issues minorities are dealing with) what suggestions would you make toward trying to get those who need to understand this stuff reading/learning about these things?
 

J10

Banned
Aug 2, 2010
11,263
0
0
That's pretty cynical, but even if you're right (and I think everyone should read and toss ideas back and forth over the issues minorities are dealing with) what suggestions would you make toward trying to get those who need to understand this stuff reading/learning about these things?

 
Mar 7, 2013
5,252
0
0
This is the best stats grouping I've seen on institutional racism. It really puts the mediocre one Vox did to shame. I hope people stop to read and think about this.
 

andthebeatgoeson

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2004
23,028
0
0
43
I think are reasonable people here in America that will see these things and help change. I'm hopeful.

Compared to 20 years ago, black lives taken by the police make headlines.

I still remember the 39th precinct scandal in Philly and that took years and terrible abuses to make headlines. You may or may not see improvement. We have a ton of progress to make. But I'm hopeful.

When I was in college, I was driving thru Atlanta, dropping a friend off, on our way to NCA&T. We went to the gas station. I do remember it was in the hood. 2 cars, probably 9-10 black guys. All in college. After 5 hours of driving, we get out of the car to stretch and gas up the car.

One of my friends opens the trunk to retrieve a CD or something and looks at all the luggage and says, 'look at all this shit'. We don't stay long and head back to the highway. Takes 3 minutes to get there and right before driving onto it, we are surrounded by 5 cop cars.

A 'tip' was called in that we were moving 'drugs'. 'Someone' saw us at the gas station, they thought is saying, 'look at all this shit' meant drugs. They asked to search our cars. We 'debated' whether to do it or not. The cops didn't get upset or aggressive. We told them we didn't have drugs and was just in college. Then I reasoned that refusing was going to make the trip worse.

We opened our bags and they let us go. U don't think they even searched the bags. Probably believed us. I think, most of the cops were black. We left after 15 minutes. Not A bad outcome, considering. But there's a few costs that are tough to be counted.

I would consider myself a patriot but not if the buffoonish manner seen on fox news. I'm glad for 'freedom'. I also think it's my right to not have any contact with the police if I do the right thing. Of course, I believe I was completely in the right and the cops were in the wrong. I made my 'mistake' the day I was born. Can't have too many black people in the same place or that heightens the threat. Can't have too many 'poors' in the same place or that heightens the threat. Too much drugs and they'll listen to crack head Ezell or witness #40.

Overall, I just keep it moving. But I do have the right to not be harassed. I do have the right to avoid the police if I'm innocent.
 

Necrovex

Member
Jun 7, 2010
9,355
0
0
Stop and Frisk is a good one, yeah. One of the things I really think needs to change is how we access Higher Education in this country. We cannot forever go on having these prohibitively expensive institutions, the cost needs to be faaaar more heavily subsidized in some way.

Because as we can see if you're a minority and you are already being crushed by economic divides and institutional racism, that system is necessarily going to be even more unfair to you.

Higher education can expand to more than just minorities in the county, white Americans can easily benefit from this too, considering most Americans are poor (even though most of them are too foolish to even recognize this fact). Education is *the* most important aspect in building an advanced, developed society, and it's sickening many in politics and in the country downplay its significance.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Dec 26, 2012
20,934
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
No one who needs to read and understand and accept any of the information provided here is going to. Appreciate the effort all the same.

Some people will not care (especially racists). But it's middle class white America that has apathy, that you want to win over. They make up the majority of the US (well not all middle class) and they are the ones that are allowing this to continue to happen, because they I. Don't know it's a problem. II. Don't believe it's a problem. III. Don't think about it, since it doesn't directly impact them.

Saying that these stats are pointless, is really I dunno. IMO education is an answer. Information is an answer. It's not going to solve issues over night. And yeah, I think if this continues the rate it's going, it might end up resorting to violence. I get that too. No one is trying to say that this is the only solution so accept it. But saying information and education has no place, and is pointless. Yeah. I don't agree with that.
 

Shamrock7r

Member
Sep 25, 2005
8,224
3
1,155
What does "segregated schools" mean?

Is it deliberate or does it mean something else?

Not segregated in the official sense that there is a law allowing them to ban certain ethnicitys at the school, but I imagine it has to do with location of the schools and their surrounding neighborhoods.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,709
4
0
36
Nowhere, PA
What does "segregated schools" mean?

Is it deliberate or does it mean something else?

Here is a good description from the Economic Policy Institute which made the statistics:

Social and economic disadvantage – not only poverty, but a host of associated conditions – depresses student performance. Concentrating students with these disadvantages in racially and economically homogenous schools depresses it further. Schools that the most disadvantaged black children attend are segregated because they are located in segregated high-poverty neighborhoods, far distant from truly middle-class neighborhoods. Living in such high-poverty neighborhoods for multiple generations adds an additional barrier to achievement, and multigenerational segregated poverty characterizes many African American children today. Education policy is constrained by housing policy: it is not possible to desegregate schools without desegregating both low-income and affluent neighborhoods.

However, the policy motivation to desegregate neighborhoods is hobbled by a growing ignorance of the nation’s racial history. It has become conventional for policymakers to assert that the residential isolation of low-income black children is now “de facto,” the accident of economic circumstance, demographic trends, personal preference, and private discrimination.

But the historical record demonstrates that residential segregation is “de jure,” resulting from racially-motivated and explicit public policy whose effects endure to the present. Without awareness of the history of state-sponsored residential segregation, policymakers are unlikely to take meaningful steps to understand or fulfill the constitutional mandate to remedy the racial isolation of neighborhoods, or the school segregation that flows from it.

More at link

And re: institutional racism, The Supreme Court in 2007 made it even more difficult to integrate than it already was:

In 2007, the Supreme Court made integration even more difficult than it already was, when the Court prohibited the Louisville and Seattle school districts from making racial balance a factor in assigning students to schools, in situations where applicant numbers exceeded available seats (Parents Involved in Community Schools v. Seattle School District No. 1, 2007).

The plurality opinion by Chief Justice John Roberts decreed that student categorization by race (for purposes of administering a choice program) is unconstitutional unless it is designed to reverse effects of explicit rules that segregated students by race. Desegregation efforts, he stated, are impermissible if students are racially isolated, not as the result of government policy but because of societal discrimination, economic characteristics, or what Justice Clarence Thomas, in his concurring opinion, termed “any number of innocent private decisions, including voluntary housing choices.”

Really the link in this post of mine is a goldmine on the subject and others, it's a great read if you're curious.
 

Kathian

Banned
Jul 16, 2014
4,788
0
0
American Black Rights has basically been tepid since the 80s; too much talk of segregation from all sides as if this is a good thing, political tribalism and the fact that the American political system is fixed by design behind two parties and no one else.

I think we need to look at why some groups progress and why in the past civil rights were won, today I feel theres too often a blame game and the games of describing successful black people as white are really terrible.

The positive I feel is that its young faces we see protesting the events today. So hopefully things can change and people can start viewing others as individuals rather than a race.

The first thing that needs to go is the disgusting term 'African American'. Everyone knows its wrong but its used across society, needs to be ditched. They're black, you can not tell someones background from the colour of their skin.
 

Piecake

Member
Jun 11, 2004
16,157
0
0
American Black Rights has basically been tepid since the 80s; too much talk of segregation from all sides as if this is a good thing, political tribalism and the fact that the American political system is fixed by design behind two parties and no one else.

I think we need to look at why some groups progress and why in the past civil rights were won, today I feel theres too often a blame game and the games of describing successful black people as white are really terrible.

The positive I feel is that its young faces we see protesting the events today. So hopefully things can change and people can start viewing others as individuals rather than a race.

The first thing that needs to go is the disgusting term 'African American'. Everyone knows its wrong but its used across society, needs to be ditched. They're black, you can not tell someones background from the colour of their skin.

I read an interesting article a while back saying that black rights movement became tepid since they focused the majority of their effort trying to retain and/or expand affirmative action. The problem being, is that actually doesn't fix anything substantial and only impact a small few. That was actually the main reason why it passed, because it was a worthless bone that Nixon (i think) could throw to black voters.

I think terms should be left up to individuals. I personally agree with you, since I would be weirded out if someone called me European-American. LIke what? I am not a real American? Still, I've known people who think black is a horrible term and that they should be called African American, so...
 
Oct 16, 2009
4,271
149
1,105
Canada
Wow, bravo on the OP. Great work.

Anyone know how this data compares to Canada?

I'd like to see this too.

All based on my experience:

For 1st Nations people, probably the same.
For Black Canadians it largely depends on region from what I hear from friends.

I live on Vancouver Island and one of my friends who is black from the deep south US told me it took a lot of time for him to come to terms with the fact racism isn't the issue it is down there. It took time to adjust to realize when shopping if an employee asks "if you need help", they are actually offering help, not being pulled over for black and driving, etc etc.
Another friend from Jamaica told me in Toronto, shit was bad for him and on par with Northern US states; However in BC people are far more accepting.
 

dan2026

Member
Jul 10, 2012
11,213
1
0
At least now more people are starting to get angry about it.

Cops are still getting away with murder, but I believe(hope) change is on the horizon.
 

ssolitare

Manbaby: The Member
Jan 12, 2009
17,096
2,008
1,180
Sad thing is that many of the majority will have no feelings towards these statistics and testimonies because it doesn't affect them. But yet they'll still shout meritocracy from a certain standpoint. How does one get most of the majority to see and care?
 

Mononoke

Banned
Dec 26, 2012
20,934
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
shows how fucking rasict this system is. straight up!


who can deny that?

Racists, people that are idiots and have a persecution complex. Those that think racism is over and that people should just stop whining and work hard.

Sadly, too many people like that. But the way I see it, we don't need them anyways. I think the bigger trick is getting the larger public to understand care. They are too apathetic or not educated on the matters.
 
Jul 6, 2005
607
0
0
Some solutions are....pretty simple. Equal funding for all public schools, free higher education, end the drug war, blanket ban on all hand guns (including police), guaranteed employment.

But how many of those will ever be put into law? The problem isn't the difficulty of finding solutions (we already know what to do), but our unwillingness to go through with them.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
Sep 12, 2013
6,629
0
0
It's bad, folks. And ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away. If you want to understand the anger with Black Americans, here is where you should start: by taking a moment to imagine what it would be like to walk in their shoes.

African Americans live in a country where history class discuss World History - Greeks, Romans, Britain, Russia - and leave out the Africa altogether, outside of Egypt. Where 80% of the teachers they'll encounter are white. Where 4% of computer science bachelor degrees go to African Americans. In any field I can go to, I can show you a fucked statistic for African Americans.

But how do we fix this? There's a host of potential ways to do so, which includes ending mandatory minimum sentencing laws and ending the Drug War, but that's just a drop in the bucket. What would you guys think needs to change to start fixing this awful problem?

Whereas i agree on the rest of your post and i find this shit disturbing in a supposed first world country, can we skip the bullshit please? We study history in progressive ways while focusing on the most important center of the world at every time: First the Sumerians, then Egypt, Middle eastern cultures, then China, India, Greeks, Roman, then again Middle East, then back to europe: dark ages, renaissance etc... If you focus on europe and middle east more it's just because our culture derive from there, may you be white green or purple. It's not a matter of excluding other cultures, because you can find even on simple schoolbooks (at least mine had a lot of the less studied world history), but of placing priority on understanding the culture of the place you've grown in, with all the bad and the good things it has.

I'm not sure why everyone need to blame every single aspect of the world of racism. Focus on what actually matter: glass ceilings and sistematic discrimination by the police and legal sistems, income disparity, lack of social policies to help poors. Accusing history books of propagating some racist agenda, or placing them alongside actual serious issues is insulting to every single teacher in the world who do its job of trying to make people understand where our society came from, the error of our ways, and the way to avoid making those mistakes again. Disrespect don't breed respect, the same way ignorance don't breed understanding.
 

NYCmetsfan

Banned
Apr 24, 2010
22,725
0
0


Must read for all. Especially white america, even those that consider themselves progressive. This book will make you realize how easy racist thinking is and how pervasive it really is. Symbolic racism is evil.

Its not only an american phenomenon but the book focuses on that

At least read up on what symbolic racism is. Its the predominate form of injustice and racism in this country today when open bigotry is disallowed
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolic_racism
 

Amir0x

Banned
Oct 27, 2004
103,709
4
0
36
Nowhere, PA
Whereas i agree on the rest of your post and i find this shit disturbing in a supposed first world country, can we skip the bullshit please? We study history in progressive ways while focusing on the most important center of the world at every time: First the Sumerians, then Egypt, Middle eastern cultures, then China, India, Greeks, Roman, then again Middle East, then back to europe: dark ages, renaissance etc... If you focus on europe and middle east more it's just because our culture derive from there, may you be white green or purple. It's not a matter of excluding other cultures, because you can find even on simple schoolbooks (at least mine had a lot of the less studied world history), but of placing priority on understanding the culture of the place you've grown in, with all the bad and the good things it has.

I'm not sure why everyone need to blame every single aspect of the world of racism. Focus on what actually matter: glass ceilings and sistematic discrimination by the police and legal sistems, income disparity, lack of social policies to help poors. Accusing history books of propagating some racist agenda, or placing them alongside actual serious issues is insulting to every single teacher in the world who do its job of trying to make people understand where our society came from, the error of our ways, and the way to avoid making those mistakes again. Disrespect don't breed respect, the same way ignorance don't breed understanding.

First, peoples migrated out of Africa to populate the European and Middle Eastern nations. Sources of culture derive from Africa.

Second, you greatly misunderstood the point. It's an issue of compounding negative stereotypes about certain races. If you go through history and read all about cultures which are non-Black, it is easy to jump to the conclusion that there is something fundamentally missing with Black contribution. In the context of a society which continually puts an extremely low value on Black lives, it is important to promote a greater understanding of the FULL picture of the world.

Third, even in the context of historical analysis about European and Middle Eastern countries, America has a massive issue with trying to white wash negative implications about the country while inserting increasingly inaccurate and highly politicized facts about the way this country was actually founded.

So, in short.

1. Due to the low value society places on Black Lives, we have to make an extra effort to demonstrate the importance of Black History on the world. And Black civilizations have made a massive contribution. Similarly to the way affirmative action may not always seem fair, we still have to find ways to improve the statistical odds of Black employment and education.

2. This country has enough of a problem already with erasing negative history toward minorities, as the most powerful textbook states assert increasing political control over what students get to learn.

3. I do find it amusing the idea of which culture is more "important" in the world. How would you scale that importance, and what factors would you use?
 

Mononoke

Banned
Dec 26, 2012
20,934
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
First, peoples migrated out of Africa to populate the European and Middle Eastern nations. Sources of culture derive from Africa.

Second, you greatly misunderstood the point. It's an issue of compounding negative stereotypes about certain races. If you go through history and read all about cultures which are non-Black, it is easy to jump to the conclusion that there is something fundamentally missing with Black contribution. In the context of a society which continually puts an extremely low value on Black lives, it is important to promote a greater understanding of the FULL picture of the world.

Third, even in the context of historical analysis about European and Middle Eastern countries, America has a massive issue with trying to white wash negative implications about the country while inserting increasingly inaccurate and highly politicized facts about the way this country was actually founded.

So, in short.

1. Due to the low value society places on Black Lives, we have to make an extra effort to demonstrate the importance of Black History on the world. And Black civilizations have made a massive contribution. Similarly to the way affirmative action may not always seem fair, we still have to find ways to improve the statistical odds of Black employment and education.

2. This country has enough of a problem already with erasing negative history toward minorities, as the most powerful textbook states assert increasing political control over what students get to learn.

3. I do find it amusing the idea of which culture is more "important" in the world. How would you scale that importance, and what factors would you use?

Why aren't you a teacher?
 
Nov 17, 2005
45,404
1
1,010
As a black man with a bachelor's degree, I am constantly hurt and frustrated with how this country treats us. The more I succeed, the less minorities i see around me, and I'm not even a VP of my company yet. Just middle management.

The problem is, you can't "graduate" out of being stereotyped either. When I see people like Questlove (a millionaire that is on TV every night) write things like this:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/07/questlove-trayvon-martin-and-i-aint-shit.html

or the President of the United States having jokes like this:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/sony-hack-amy-pascal-scott-756438

made about him, it's no wonder that I (also a Black professional) get judged everyday of my life, no matter where I go as a color first, and a man second. Elevators, walking down the street, shopping in the markets (places like Whole Foods and Trader Joe's are particularly challenging when Shopping While Black...).

I understand when Quest talks about the pressure to constantly "convince" White people that they don't have to be concerned, as though I did something wrong. I am also part of a group of which to be judged. I don't get to be just an individual. It's something that I think my White peers take for granted. Something I think would go a LONG way in race relations.

Here is an example of what I mean in regards to simple things we systematically can't do: Have a bad day at work in corporate America.

I have a friend (that is White) who had a bit of a mini meltdown at work. Lost his patience, stormed out yelling and screaming. Ok. No big deal for him. People chalked it up to him having a bad day, as they should have and no one associated that to 1) him as a person or 2) White people in general. This is what should have happened. He is a good dude and he was having a bad day.

Now, had I had that exact same reaction, it is my belief that not only would it have not been chalked up to me having an isolated, bad day, it WOULD have been associated directly to me being the "angry Black man" (a sigma that NEVER goes away) AND it would have furthered grouping Black people as one connected stereotype.

How do I know? I have seen it happen in the past to someone else who dared show emotion. After that day, there were constant whispers about how "angry" this person was, even though the guy is one of the most even tempered, cool people I know.

So when shit as simple as having a bad day at work are so disproportionately weighted (by people that are and would consider themselves reasonable and NOT racist) how is it surprising we have such a hard time in greater society, no matter how much success we have attained?
 
Nov 4, 2011
8,584
2
725
Because I'm on my phone cant go into depth. So this is overly simplified view of mine.

Still existent racism at the institutional level, leads to a poor socioeconomic statistics, which leads to poor education levels which has literally become cyclical from one generation to e next generation.

This should all have diminished over time, yet, it has not.

Why? A mixture of apathy and really, the american thought process... I have mine, fuck everybody else... That's not to say no fault falls on the minority side.

There are people that choose to plateau instead of seek more, but again, a lot of this stems from all the above because they have no choice but to give up.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Dec 26, 2012
20,934
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
One thing that really bothers me, is how people try to find rationalization for problems. Especially of race. You look at something and say: this is happening. BUT BUT...this is the reason it is...

It's fine to have certain discussions about possible reasons. But why it's always this default thing. And why after there is stats to back it up, people continue to do it. I don't get it. Why is it so hard to admit that, something is happening that is very bad. Why does it always need to be explained away.

The classic thing I see is: when a black person walks down the street, people get nervous. Clench their purses or feel uneasy.

BUT BUT...it's because the person is a man. And like Men are always scary when it comes to women. The person was probably really tall, or looked mean. That is the reason.

Uh huh. This clearly isn't an overall issue we've seen time and time again and not related to how we perceive people of a race/background.
 

entremet

Member
Dec 6, 2008
85,707
384
1,455
Another issue is that poverty leads to cycle of victimization.

For example, a poor young black youth caught for drugs will have lack of access to legal services.

Public defenders are overworked and have no resources. And most cases don't even go to trial, which is a travesty of the Constitution.

Yet when there's poverty and lack of knowledge of the legal system, a young black male is a severe disadvantage.
 

Mononoke

Banned
Dec 26, 2012
20,934
0
0
Los Angeles, CA
Another issue is that poverty leads to cycle of victimization.

For example, a poor young black youth caught for drugs will have lack of access to legal services.

Public defenders are overworked and have no resources. And most cases don't even go to trial, which is a travesty of the Constitution.

Yet when there's poverty and lack of knowledge of the legal system, a young black male is a severe disadvantage.

People like to act like, history/past actions doesn't still impact people today. Like, even if Racism was not a thing anymore (it is). But let's just argue there are no racist laws, and no racist people. Due to the American racist system in the past, entire generations of Black Americans were denied access to the middle class.

Almost all people at one point, had ancestors that started out in the lowest class. But each generation could get work, and then the next generation could move up. So the children of their parents, could eventually get better education. They could get a great job. Then their kids could have so much opportunity,privilege, access to education/resources and so on. This is how most people make it to the middle class.

For almost a 100 years, black Americans were cut out of this. They were denied it. That means most of the people in the lower classes, are going to be black or minorities. And statistically speaking, there is higher crime rates in lower class due to poverty leading to a lack of resources, education, and opportunities. All of this comes together.All of this has cause and effect.

So I hate when people try to say, black Americans have a higher crime rate then other by choice. It's something they choose. That's ignoring the fact that, we have very racist laws that specifically are slanted against black Americans. But even that aside, it shows a complete lack of understanding of the complexity of this issue and how history and past actions have a profound effect on things.

People seem to want to ignore history, and the effects it has after the fact. Yep, racism ended in the 60s. So blacks should just be able to work hard and better themselves. Yeah how about no.
 

Coins

Banned
Jul 20, 2007
5,010
0
0
St. Louis, Missouri
Racism is easy to understand. Slaves gave a huge prosperity boost to whites enabling them to accumulate vast wealth which got handed down from generation to generation. This is called "old money" now. No one had to pay wages, health costs, or anything associated with employees. This was a huge advantage for white people and ensures that whites go to college, fall into jobs through family owned businesses, etc. Its a jumpstart that whites still utilize today. Blacks on the other hand werent really even recognized as people until the 60s. The whole black population has had to recently start from zero. Its impossible to do. Whites dont want to share their wealth. They dont even know they dont want to share their wealth. Its just how people have been taught to behave.

Since blacks have had to start from zero wealth, whites (knowingly or unknowingly) view blacks as worthless. Not in the sense that they could live or die and it wouldnt matter, but in the sense of "how can i benefit from you?" Blacks are statistically poorer so therefore have no value to people who have value and want to increase it. Again, whites dont even realize, I believe, that they think this way. Affluent white people also view poor whites the same way. Its just way worse with blacks because of my point earlier that blacks started with zero wealth after slavery. In society today, I also believe this mindset has infected black minds as well. I really believe that young black males view other black males as having no value.

How do you change this?

Free education for everyone.
Free healthcare for everyone.
Free job training for everyone.

Make the white majority see value in black america.

Its not going to happen, though, because if everyone has value, then no one gets to feel special.

I guess im blaming capitalism in the end? I dont know. Please forgive me if my post is offensive. Im making an honest post. I really believe it comes down to how much we value people, which in itself is horrible because im basically saying to make things right you have to make people view other people as having value. Its sad that we dont concern ourselves with things we view as valueless.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.