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Intel Core i9-12900K Alder Lake CPU "Destroys" AMD Ryzen 9 5950X In Single-Core & Mult-Threaded Benchmark Leak

dave_d

Member
I should ask, is it still the case with these benchmarks that you only get that if you use DDR5? (Which is something like $400 for 32GB) Is it still the case that you only get a slight improvement if you use DDR4?
 
Intel being Intel again!
No one doubts that Alder Lake will finally be the substantial upgrade that Intel was lacking in the last half decade, but people, just pay attention to "leaked" benchmarks before launch that may convince you to not buy into AM4 right now.

There's a new Ashes of Singularity benchmark where Alder Lake "destroys" :rolleyes: Zen 3, but this benchmark was made after the last update: https://www.stardock.com/news/50673...h-faster-load-times-and-major-balance-updates

Before the game/benchmark used only 8 cores, now it can use 16 cores.
The catch?



It's not 16 cores 32 threads, it's 16 cores 24 threads, this shit was tailor made for Alder Lake! Half of a Ryzen 5950X is gimped!
 

Reallink

Member
But 5950x also has access to 24 threads, just can't use all 32 of them. It's a fair ipc test. Tbf I dont know any game where you can take advanatge of 32 threads. Most don't make use of more than 8 still.

If that bench is true then 12 series is a beauty. https://www.techspot.com/news/91341-intel-core-i9-12900k-beats-ryzen-9-5950x.html


If real AMD's done, a Zen3+ refresh ain't even coming close to +40%. I don't even think the pre-zen era gap was that large.
 
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Armorian

Banned
We need to see other benchmarks. Rocket was amazing on some benches before release too.

But AL looks like a massive upgrade for Intel anyway.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
If real AMD's done, a Zen3+ refresh ain't even coming close to +40%. I don't even think the pre-zen era gap was that large.

AMD literally got 25-30% increase in IPC when they went from 3000 series to 5000 series. ANd that was with the first iteration of 3D vcache. Zen 3 is full chiplet. I think they will be fine and be pulling less wattage than intel is to do the same performance.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Intel being Intel again!
No one doubts that Alder Lake will finally be the substantial upgrade that Intel was lacking in the last half decade, but people, just pay attention to "leaked" benchmarks before launch that may convince you to not buy into AM4 right now.

There's a new Ashes of Singularity benchmark where Alder Lake "destroys" :rolleyes: Zen 3, but this benchmark was made after the last update: https://www.stardock.com/news/50673...h-faster-load-times-and-major-balance-updates

Before the game/benchmark used only 8 cores, now it can use 16 cores.
The catch?



It's not 16 cores 32 threads, it's 16 cores 24 threads, this shit was tailor made for Alder Lake! Half of a Ryzen 5950X is gimped!

Still a good IPC test though.
Its effectively fair...if not actually to AMDs advantage they only have big cores so the added thread count should advantage AMD.
Intel only have 8 big cores with 16 threads attached.
 
Still a good IPC test though.
Its effectively fair...if not actually to AMDs advantage they only have big cores so the added thread count should advantage AMD.
Intel only have 8 big cores with 16 threads attached.

No one doubts that finally Alder Lake will be good, but Intel have a looooong story with benchmarks, and these cores don't tell the TDP that Intel says will increase.

Anyway, seems like AMD is not concerned about competing with it for a time. They'll go with Ryzen 3D that should be good enough for everyone and take it's time before switching to the new sock that will require DDR5. People need to remember that Alder Lake will be expensive.
 

This really shows how much power and influence Intel really has, everyone is doing the most they can to make Alder Lake work.
It's worth a bit of discussion. Windows 11 and benchmark suits will tried to easy things for Alder Lake and try to show it a it's best, but old software will still work the old way, so there may be a disconnect between this theoretical performance and actual performance on most software. But for now what it's most strange is that Alder Lake is performing "bad" even in hand made benchmarks, what? How?

 
Intel has 8 Main Cores and 8 Small Cores and 24 Threads, where as AMD has 16 Main Cores and 32 thread yet still perform as well as the Intel solution. As I've said a million times before, Intel's design team is better than AMD's.
 
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SantaC

Member
Intel has 8 Main Cores and 8 Small Cores and 24 Threads, where as AMD has 16 Main Cores and 32 thread yet still perform as well as the Intel solution. As I've said a million times before, Intel's design team is better than AMD's.
Zen 3 will be 1 year old when alder lake comes out.
AMD design team is better than Intels considering they have 1/10 of the resources.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Zen 3 will be 1 year old when alder lake comes out.
AMD design team is better than Intels considering they have 1/10 of the resources.

Thats quite a silly metric.

IF you have two soccer teams.
Team A has more money so buys the best players available till they have a winning 11
Team B has less money so cant buy as many "best" players.
In the match Team A beats Team B
Which is the better Team?
 
Zen 3 will be 1 year old when alder lake comes out.
AMD design team is better than Intels considering they have 1/10 of the resources.
When AMD starts struggling, they just make it smaller. Intel has been on their coat tails for some time now on 14nm+ (repeating) while AMD shrinks their chips to be marginally better. AMD chips aren't THAT much better.
 
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SantaC

Member
Thats quite a silly metric.

IF you have two soccer teams.
Team A has more money so buys the best players available till they have a winning 11
Team B has less money so cant buy as many "best" players.
In the match Team A beats Team B
Which is the better Team?
What a bunch of nonsense. So intel is amazing now because they took ONE year to counter AMD?

Zen 3 is a technical marvel. Much better than intel ever done.
 
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SantaC

Member
When AMD starts struggling, they just make it smaller. Intel has been on their coat tails for some time now on 14nm+ (repeating) while AMD shrinks their chips to be marginally better. AMD chips aren't THAT much better.
How ironic since the intel fanboys always said in the past that intels node was equal TSMC.
 

ViolentP

Member
I got no horse in the race and for me, performance is king. When I update my PC, I always go with the current powerhouse. In this case, it looks like the 12900K. Thems the breaks.
 

Rikkori

Member
Like I've been saying all along! So we can basically expect Zen 3 V-Cache to maintain the crown with ease, plus we don't have to use the shitty new windows either AND it will be cheaper overall. Win/win/win.

 

FireFly

Member
When AMD starts struggling, they just make it smaller. Intel has been on their coat tails for some time now on 14nm+ (repeating) while AMD shrinks their chips to be marginally better. AMD chips aren't THAT much better.
If you consider a 19% IPC improvement on the same process (Zen 3) to be marginally better, then prepare to be disappointed by Alder Lake.
 
If you consider a 19% IPC improvement on the same process (Zen 3) to be marginally better, then prepare to be disappointed by Alder Lake.
It's not like AMD is blowing Intel out of the water with their performance. For instance, in gaming, the 10900K is neck and neck with the 5950X. The 5950X has 16C / 32T the 10900K is 10C/20T. In my opinion, AMD not only lowers the process size, but also ups the core and thread count. Meanwhile Intel's design did not require getting shrunk, nor did it require extra cores although it does need more power to achieve these tasks. I personally believe Intel's chips are better designed than AMD's and at 10nm (intel) we will see quite the comeback.

As for menial tasks, the 5950X is no slouch and the metrics show it. Neither processor is really a bad processor, but there was a reason intel was on top for so long and will reclaim their spot.
 
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FireFly

Member
It's not like AMD is blowing Intel out of the water with their performance. For instance, in gaming, the 10900K is neck and neck with the 5950X. The 5950X has 16C / 32T the 10900K is 10C/20T. In my opinion, AMD not only lowers the process size, but also ups the core and thread count. Meanwhile Intel's design did not require getting shrunk, nor did it require extra cores although it does need more power to achieve these tasks. I personally believe Intel's chips are better designed than AMD's and at 10nm (intel) we will see quite the comeback.

As for menial tasks, the 5950X is no slouch and the metrics show it. Neither processor is really a bad processor, but there was a reason intel was on top for so long and will reclaim their spot.
1.) Gaming is a very specific use case as it is heavily latency dependent, and until Zen 3 Intel had an advantage with their ring bus architecture. Notice that Rocket Lake was barely faster than Comet Lake in gaming, despite substantial IPC improvements elsewhere (maybe around ~10% overall). Also so far the rumours point to Alder Lake having lackluster gaming performance, so with their new V-Cache technology AMD may ironically do best against Alder Lake in gaming.
2.) AMD has increased IPC by 41% over just 1.5 process node shrinks, which blows Intel's historical rate of improvement out of the water. They are not further ahead because they were in a huge hole with Bulldozer, and basically needed to increase IPC by 80% (!) just to get even with Skylake.
3.) Intel was stuck with 14nm for a long time, but it wasn't the same process. They were continually refining it to get higher and higher clocks, and have been outclocking both AMD and their own 10 nm process until this upcoming generation. So I would say Intel was staying relevant precisely because of their process advancements on 14nm.
4.) Even on 10 nm, Intel wasn't able to match the power efficiency of Zen 3's mobile processors. We will see what happens with Alder Lake, but on the desktop it doesn't look like their high power consumption is going away.
5.) Lets maybe wait until the reviews before declaring that Alder Lake will destroy everything. Intel declared that Alder Lake would have 19% better IPC than Rocket Lake on average, and in their own chart we can see what looks like some substantial performance regressions.


Edit: Just to add, high core/thread counts make almost no difference for gaming. If the 5950X is AMD's best gaming processor, it's due to better binning and having the highest boost clock, not the fact it has 16 cores. That comes back to Intel's clock advantage on 14nm.
 
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Kenpachii

Gold Member
if zen 3 used DDR5 and PCIE5, would it be comparable to Alder Lake? Just a hypothetical question

ddr5 adds more bandwidth for the cpu so i would say so.

edit

actually readed your question wrong thought you asked if ddr5 gets added would it improve zen 3 performance.

However alder lake is a different architecture so no it won't unless zen 3 performs the same as big cores on alder lake which we yet have to see.
 
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M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
if zen 3 used DDR5 and PCIE5, would it be comparable to Alder Lake? Just a hypothetical question
Well no, because Alder Lake has different architecture in big/small cores. We don't know how it works on Windows...

Itś Unix based systems, which works with this scheme for over 10 years. So there is quite a bit of maturity there.
 
Well no, because Alder Lake has different architecture in big/small cores. We don't know how it works on Windows...

Itś Unix based systems, which works with this scheme for over 10 years. So there is quite a bit of maturity there.

Isnt Zen's performance based on RAM bandwidth and its frequency? DDR5 supposedly goes up to 6-8Ghz (not sure on exact numbers) ?!!!
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Isnt Zen's performance based on RAM bandwidth and its frequency? DDR5 supposedly goes up to 6-8Ghz (not sure on exact numbers) ?!!!
Sure it could help, however with memories, there is this issue with increasing frequency, there is also increase of latency. In my honest opinion IT should move from 2 channel memory system, towards 4 channels in mainstream.

Also if you take slowest memory you can find and fastest, the performance delta is going to be max 10%. So I don't think it's that big of a deal.
 

TheAssist

Member
How much of that performance improvement comes just from the faster DDR5 Ram?

Sorry I did not read the thing, but would be nice to know how they compare with the same RAM since we know CPU performance also goes up with faster RAM
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
250W is actually insane, for bit/LITTLE architecture, which does not have like a double of the cores of the competing products. Holy shit.
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
I can understand now why the Intel CEO was looking so confident. There's is no competition from conventional house heating solutions, everybody is going Intel this winter.

Imagine if they slammed 16 big cores on that chip holy fuck. But yea this explains why they watercooled it in the first leak.
 
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marquimvfs

Member
So, I was the only one here that didn't know that the LITTLE cores don't support hyper threading? For me, thats a relevant information...
 

martino

Member
Intel being Intel again!
No one doubts that Alder Lake will finally be the substantial upgrade that Intel was lacking in the last half decade, but people, just pay attention to "leaked" benchmarks before launch that may convince you to not buy into AM4 right now.

There's a new Ashes of Singularity benchmark where Alder Lake "destroys" :rolleyes: Zen 3, but this benchmark was made after the last update: https://www.stardock.com/news/50673...h-faster-load-times-and-major-balance-updates

Before the game/benchmark used only 8 cores, now it can use 16 cores.
The catch?



It's not 16 cores 32 threads, it's 16 cores 24 threads, this shit was tailor made for Alder Lake! Half of a Ryzen 5950X is gimped!
Lol ? and this hasn't front page of hardware site ?
there clearly is a problem then.
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
So, I was the only one here that didn't know that the LITTLE cores don't support hyper threading? For me, thats a relevant information...

It's going to be interesting when a game uses 9 cores or even 10 cores. how those big cores are going to behave.
 

Kenpachii

Gold Member
Intel being Intel again!
No one doubts that Alder Lake will finally be the substantial upgrade that Intel was lacking in the last half decade, but people, just pay attention to "leaked" benchmarks before launch that may convince you to not buy into AM4 right now.

There's a new Ashes of Singularity benchmark where Alder Lake "destroys" :rolleyes: Zen 3, but this benchmark was made after the last update: https://www.stardock.com/news/50673...h-faster-load-times-and-major-balance-updates

Before the game/benchmark used only 8 cores, now it can use 16 cores.
The catch?



It's not 16 cores 32 threads, it's 16 cores 24 threads, this shit was tailor made for Alder Lake! Half of a Ryzen 5950X is gimped!

Holy shit haha
 

squarealex

Member
"The spec TDP of Intel CPUs pertains to the power draw at stock frequencies. When the CPUs boost to higher “Turbo Frequencies”, the power draw increases considerably. This power state or profile is called PL2 (Power Level 2) while the stock (marketed) power state is called PL1"
Jesus Christ... my Ryzen 7 5800X only consumns 115W on Turbo Boost.


EDIT :



Welp...Intel definitely too greedy
 
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