Are people buying laptops? I thought that market was getting squeezed by tablets?
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Intel Haswell reviews embargo lifted
- Thread starter longdi
- Start date
Are people buying laptops? I thought that market was getting squeezed by tablets?
I agree with only a 920 @4.1GHz. I don't even know when I'm going to have to upgrade this build and it's already 3 1/2yrs old.
Might be worth it by the time Skylake comes out
or if AMD somehow manages to move the game on.MikeE21286
Member
Yeah, my 2500k seems mighty fine
I've a machine with an i5 750 and I can't see any need yet either, still flies along.
I find the impact of the huge L4 cache interesting in the IGP benchmark. The Iris Pro produces nice, flat latency profiles for most of the benchmarks, and I think the cache may play a role in mitigating performance spikes.
Mihos
Gold Member
That site is for people like me who are building Steam boxes for every TV in the house.
Don't Crossfire yet, not until AMD gets new drivers out to fix it.
A better investment imo would be a single 7850 and then upgrade it in 2 years time to its successor.
Crossfire is currently bugged. In dual GPU setups the GPUs are supposed to take turns rendering frames (GPU1 take frame one, GPU2 frame two...) to nearly double the FPS, but with crossfire at the moment the two GPUs render pretty much the same frame at the same time so while the FPS is double the game isn't any smoother.
The pink frame is the extra frame gained by adding another GPU.
You can read more about it in this pcper article and you can read about the prototype driver AMD has here.
Here's a video comparing the 660ti and 7950 in dual GPU setup. The video is slowed down and it is important to note that the 7950 is more powerful and got a better FPS, but the SLI setup is able to space out those frames making the gameplay smoother.
1) Most on this forum that identify as PC gamers and pay attention to news threads like this do.
2) Yes it will, which demonstrates your lack of understanding. You can OC to 4.0 really easily with Sandy/Ivy on the stock cooler. Most people buy an aftermarket cooler anyway.
It's times like this when you need to re-examine who the audience is on NeoGAF.
OC3D did some overclocking in their Youtube review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xrLtjgbga5g#t=1714s
1.20V - 4.6Ghz - H100 with dual SP120's on an open bench - 91C
Are you fucking kidding me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=xrLtjgbga5g#t=1714s
1.20V - 4.6Ghz - H100 with dual SP120's on an open bench - 91C
Are you fucking kidding me
He seems like the only reviewer who got a bad chip. Not that his experience isn't going to be the norm, but most reviewers had good chips. Linus at NCIX has his OC guide, and their chip went to 4.6 at 1.2V right off the bat, at decent temps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CHs5_TdpXE
The chip lottery seems much more in place for Haswell
I have the intel 980x and nothing touches it. Even 4K video uses a small amount of power. Same with any game. I won't be upgrading for years to come.
I also have a 980x. When I bought it three years ago I was expecting 6 or even 8 core CPUs to become the norm in a few years. I'm surprised Intel is still happily producing quad core CPUs. There's no reason at all for me to upgrade my CPU, in particular when it runs fine overclocked to 4Ghz.
This is a chip lottery. The same thing with Ivy Bridge. If you think Ivy Bridge and Haswell are any different in terms of temps and OC potential, you are wrong. And if you think Intel will make Broadwell any better, in terms of OC/temps, you are wrong - especially with it's huge lead over AMD. Intel is marketing future chips for tablets and small PCs, in order to lower power usage and as a result battery life.
Intel sees there is better money to be made from that crowd, than the hardcore OC enthusiasts. This is all about silicon lottery, as it was with Ivy Bridge. I doubt we'll ever see another jump such as Sandy Bridge was in terms of overclocking or temperatures.
Won't they eventually have to bring 6 or 8 core CPUs as a standard for none Enthusiast platforms?
Intel sees there is better money to be made from that crowd, than the hardcore OC enthusiasts. This is all about silicon lottery, as it was with Ivy Bridge. I doubt we'll ever see another jump such as Sandy Bridge was in terms of overclocking or temperatures.
Won't they eventually have to bring 6 or 8 core CPUs as a standard for none Enthusiast platforms?
I think most PC gamers should just begin to accept that the Enthusiast platform of Intel chips is their future home.
I have $100 that says Ivy-E uses fluxless solder.
I have $100 that says Ivy-E uses fluxless solder.
That's just not true. Most reviews are showing really high temperatures.
I'm not sure I understand the question.
InsertCredit
Member
How does this translate to the E variants? Do the 3930 / 3960 / 3970 cpus scale nicely considering their SB architecture? (taking into account the increased density with more active cores)
If so, does it make any sense to wait for the IB-E release if you're interested in overclocking?
Excuse the many questions, just want to get my head straight about 2-3 year old hardware outperforming new stuff.
Right now the Enthusiast series has 6 cores on their CPUs. While they keep 4 core CPUs to the standard CPU cycles (Sandy Bridge, Haswell, etc.) Won't they have to bring the same specifications they are using now to a larger crowd (i.e. future tick-tock cycles will start with a base 6 cores, rather than the 4 cores we see now). While future xxx-E CPUs will go on to 8 or 12, the mass consumer CPU such as the i5 and i7 will have a mandatory 6 core CPU. Maybe when 6 cores becomes mainstream, we could see potentially better temps and OCing. Or is my speculation off and the 4 core CPU will remain the standard for the foreseeable future?
E variants are better, but also $200-300 (depending on where you live) more expensive, they overclock great and have 6 cores with good temps.
I would definitely love to do an E build in 3-5 years. But I'm an enthusiast that loves to OC and get even 1-5 fps out of a CPU. For me it's worth it, for others it might not be.
Also I would wait for IB-E if you are interested into OCing, I'm sure they will get way better temps, than Haswell gets.
Yeah, most SB-E processors (3820 being the cheapest) clock in the 4.8-5.0 range as long as you have the cooling to deal with it. It's not like Haswell/Ivy with a heatwall though.
Ivy-E should be a fairly minor upgrade over Sandy-E, the main benefit is native PCI-E 3.0 support. Right now, it's a crapshoot on whether the motherboard will flash to PCI-E 3.0 with SB-E and NVIDIA.
The enthusiast platform also had a quad core though.
I don't think what you are suggesting is necessarily the case. Not that it isn't, but there's just nothing to say that is the history.
We've had Hex Cores on the enthusiast platform since 1366 with the 980x and the... 950? 970? The non-extreme one. We've had 4 consumer releases since then with no hex processors.
*edit*
Also, the big thing about SB-E that I like is 40 PCI-E lanes. With SSD's inevitably moving in that direction over the next two years, I don't want to have to share a measly 16 lanes between a card or two and then a PCI-E SSD. The PLX lane multipliers are an okay option, but you have to pay an arm and a leg for a motherboard that has a good PLX solution.
InsertCredit
Member
Thanks. Just did a quick google search and it looks like as long as you're running PCI-E 2.0, you're not going to be running into much (any?) roadblocks?
Why does Intel refuse to make the 6 core CPUs a standard, especially since it offers better performance, at better temps, and has great OCing potential. Instead we who don't want to spend $500+ on a CPU, or hell just don't care about the E variant are stuck with such crap with what we have with Ivy Bridge and Haswell.
Also to add insult to injury, I will bet my left nut that Broadwell won't change that much either.
Intel is starting to piss me off. I really hope AMD just comes out with some godly CPU, which will cause Intel to finally do something insane as when the Core2Duo and Core2Quad series came out. Man I loved my Q6600, it was the best CPU I've ever had, great OC potential on air, and it was quad core. It worked great up until this past year. That's 5 years of beautiful co-existence.
Sandy Bridge E. 6 cores, great ocing potential and pretty good temps. I would love to have that in the mainstream CPU cycle, versus the Haswell we have now.
What are you basing this on?
But 1155 SB overclocked great too. The issue with heat was the switch from fluxless solder to glued on with TIM. Delidded Ivy's perform great.
Not enough demand at all for it to become the norm.The 920 has been around for 4-5 years now and is still decent which just shows how little demand there is for performance now a days. Casual PC users are fine with dual cores. For gamers, game are barely using 4 cores to their potential then you add the fact that new consoles will use weak CPU's which means that games will be developed around that. Only the professional market really needs 6 core and above but it is a small market which means $$$$.
Exactly. The applications that need that many threads are few and far in between. The folks that want that extra power can pay for it with their enthusiast platform. They then get the benefit of quad channel memory and 40 PCI-E lanes.
There's absolutely no one who needs a $200-300 12 thread processor. People who need that kind of compute power would end up going for whatever $500-600 part is, or even look at the EP platform with dual xeons. The 8350 sits at $200, and provides amazing compute power for the price as well. Games need super high single threaded performance, and that's what Intel continues to not only do well at, but make consistent gains year after year.
The theoretical person that would buy this consumer socket 6 core processor is extremely niche, Intel doesn't gain very much by offering one.
The heat issue, as noted, is as simple as removing the top of the processor and putting some Liquid Pro in there. If that's a bit too scary, chances are, you don't really need that overhead such a process would unlock.
Yeah, it's not worth buying a new chip over.
You could score an 1155 motherboard fairly easy online, even watch the B/S/T thread here on GAF.
I don't know why you would anticipate an AMD CPU launch until AMD gets itself back to parity with Intel. A 2500k is a fine processor for gaming and is completely fine if you are on a single card setup.
Intel is clearly putting their R&D into mobile so their mainline processors are adopting strengths needed by mobile processors. Lower power draw = more battery life. It would be nice to see another CPU jump comparable to Sandy, but I'm fine keeping my 3770k around for awhile and just upgrading my graphics continually. Plus I like the z77 Mpower board's looks more than the z87, so I good for me.
Intel is clearly putting their R&D into mobile so their mainline processors are adopting strengths needed by mobile processors. Lower power draw = more battery life. It would be nice to see another CPU jump comparable to Sandy, but I'm fine keeping my 3770k around for awhile and just upgrading my graphics continually. Plus I like the z77 Mpower board's looks more than the z87, so I good for me.
I'm anticipating steamroller in the hopes that it is the chip that gets it back into parity with Intel. Obviously if it was still below my 2500k I wouldn't upgrade.
Coming from a long time AMD fan, that right there is a pipe dream. At least as far as per thread performance goes (which is what you want for gaming).
If it's competitive (Sanby Bridge IPC) and is overclockable that might be all it needs to do.
If they get their 30% IPC improvement over Piledriver it should be.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
So when is the next 6-core E chip coming out again? For some reason I thought it was gonna be sometime this year, but now that I think about it, I really have no idea. It should still use LGA2011, right?
ElectricThunder
Member
What is ARM up to lately, if at all, in this race to the future? Last I heard they had yet to broach the desktop space per se, and had an A-15 thing coming that was supposed to cover a fair bit of ground in terms of the mobile world up to that point, but now I see something called an A-57 kicking about or coming?
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a50/cortex-a57-processor.php
If things continue this sort of relative coasting on the desktop front in terms of AMD and Intel...won't they essentially "get there" at some point with the tricky caveat being very little historical software support versus x-86 and whatnot? I mean, there's almost nobody else left on the hardware front on this spectrum save the odd niche that is Freescale, with the barrier of entry to any future folks being quite high right?
Even without competition over money, the world needs these capabilities and power just in general as a thing to strive for in terms of progress since there is still such a long way to go.
http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a50/cortex-a57-processor.php
If things continue this sort of relative coasting on the desktop front in terms of AMD and Intel...won't they essentially "get there" at some point with the tricky caveat being very little historical software support versus x-86 and whatnot? I mean, there's almost nobody else left on the hardware front on this spectrum save the odd niche that is Freescale, with the barrier of entry to any future folks being quite high right?
Even without competition over money, the world needs these capabilities and power just in general as a thing to strive for in terms of progress since there is still such a long way to go.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7021/introducing-the-dualcore-haswell-skus
Embargo lifted on dual core Haswell.
Embargo lifted on dual core Haswell.
longdi
Banned
It seems like Haswell will be sticking around until 2015?
No mention about the 14nm Broadwell tick.
Hope you like your heatwall and dead non-k overclocking..
http://vr-zone.com/articles/long-li...-a-midterm-refresh-is-on-the-cards/33920.html
No mention about the 14nm Broadwell tick.
Hope you like your heatwall and dead non-k overclocking..
http://vr-zone.com/articles/long-li...-a-midterm-refresh-is-on-the-cards/33920.html
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Keeping an eye on Ivy-E like a Hawk. I see no reason to upgrade right now if it costs almost 600 like my 3930k.
I let this go before, but I want to add a bit on this. You can often undervolt and overclock Intel processors (if not going for extreme settings).
A real nerd delight is hooking the computer up to a Kill-a-watt and just playing around with different combos. Because there's always a sweet spot before performance/watt drops off a cliff. And even if you don't want that sweet spot and are just looking for maximum efficiency, you can usually undervolt and still over-clock a little if you went that way. And if you're not overclocking, undervolt that baby. Again, kill-a-watt is great for this. Because you'll find there's a spot where undervolting further brings almost zero benefit. So you won't accidentally go too far (with no benefit) and make it unstable for no reason.
For what this thread is about, which is a retail release of a desktop processor, I do think a majority of people who care about this also care about overclocking potential.
The big deal with Sandy compared to previous chips was that 4.5-5.0GHz was a huge leap in performance. When per-clock increases are in the 3-10% range, as they have been since the first Core series were released, bigger gains can be had through overclocking.
With how simple they've made it, it's become much much more common to do this. A vast majority of the people in the PC thread do it, and those are the type of people who buy retail desktop parts.
Even those who purchase pre-built gaming machines have them pre-overclocked from the factory. How many people are going out there and buying some shitty Dell tower nowadays? Seems like you're going to either buy a laptop or a hardcore gaming PC, there's not a lot of room in between anymore like there used to be.
If this thread was about laptop chips, I might understand where you are coming from. But the 'lol at overclocking' mentality seems to come from people who are completely out of touch with the PC gaming enthusiast world.
This is GAF, not a cross section of the greater public.
Mr. Wonderful
Member
It seems like Haswell will be sticking around until 2015?
No mention about the 14nm Broadwell tick.
Hope you like your heatwall and dead non-k overclocking..
http://vr-zone.com/articles/long-li...-a-midterm-refresh-is-on-the-cards/33920.html
Look closer.
There is no 14nm Broadwell tick for LGA sockets, which we already knew. Broadwell is BGA only.
What this does tell us, however, which is news to me, is that desktop users will also be getting some kind of refresh in 2014. I wonder what it will bring? Higher clocks? Or maybe new feature support, like (dare I dream) DDR4 or SATA Express.