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[Guess Who]

I don't see how it won't improve audio quality. Phone DACs are generally low quality and inadequately shielded, introducing all sorts of noise even before the signal has to travel down the wire. A standard for digital audio and wide market adoption of digital headphones (physically separating the DAC from the phone radio) can only improve audio quality.

This may have been the case a few years ago - and maybe still in some lower-end phones - but it hasn't been true for a while at the high-end, especially in iPhones, which seem to be the first high-profile phones to axe the headphone jack. Moreover I can't imagine why you would expect many headphone makers to use better DACs - now instead of $10-20 earbuds at least being driven by a decent DAC, they get to use whatever 10-cent piece of shit the manufacturer threw in to keep the price down.

 

[samn]

I don't see how it won't improve audio quality. Phone DACs are generally low quality and inadequately shielded, introducing all sorts of noise even before the signal has to travel down the wire. A standard for digital audio and wide market adoption of digital headphones (physically separating the DAC from the phone radio) can only improve audio quality.

I throw out headphones pretty much every other month due to wear and tear. So I buy cheap headphones. So the included DAC is not going to be great compared to what I have sat in my £500 iPhone all year round.

 

[sechsterangriff]

Audiophiles already use external DACs or dedicated DAPs with their headphones of choice.
This is the one group of users that doesn't benefit at all from this.

 

[Fox_Mulder]

thanks Apple

 

[mattwhite924]

I'm pretty sure that they can want to switch standards all they want, but the trs jack is so ingrained in society that I doubt they could pull it off. Everybody uses them. I'm sure that even if this goes though, there will be other companies that still use them and market it as a feature.

I really see this as a non-issue. The headphone jack isn't going anywhere for a long time.

 

[DOWN]

It's time to get on board with Bluetooth y'all. And if you insist on wired, USB C should be the way

 

[Aurongel]

Audiophiles already use external DACs or dedicated DAPs with their headphones of choice.
This is the one group of users that doesn't benefit at all from this.

I already use an AudioEngine D1 that connects through USB 3.0. No reason the bandwidth of USB-C can't handle that burden.

USB-C replacing the headphone standard bothers me less than Lightning because of the inherent ubiquity of USB-C over Lightning.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

It's time to get on board with Bluetooth y'all. And if you insist on wired, USB C should be the way

Skip skip pop pop, no thanks.

It's like travelling back in time to using a discman every time I hook anything up via Bluetooth audio.

 

[sechsterangriff]

I already use an AudioEngine D1 that connects through USB 3.0. No reason the bandwidth of USB-C can't handle that burden.

USB-C replacing the headphone standard bothers me less than Lightning because of the inherent ubiquity of USB-C over Lightning.

What I mean is I don't see how audiophiles benefit by forcing headphones with integrated DACs. Because that's what HDCP means, if they decide to enforce it.

 

[StarCreator]

Skip skip pop pop, no thanks.

It's like travelling back in time to using a discman every time I hook anything up via Bluetooth audio.

Hook up with what? And from how far away? I'm listening to music in my car via a $25 Bluetooth bridge as I write this and the sound output is leagues clearer than my phone's 3.5mm output. No pops or skips.

 

[Imbarkus]

Why does the headphone jack need a successor?

This is about more than moving new hardware, headphones, peripherals, and adaptors.

This is about DRM.

 

[TAJ]

If it really is about DRM then lol. Who the fuck is using an analog jack to pirate music?

 

[breadtruck]

Im okay with the current standard, thanks though

 

[Poimandres]

Seriously, just take a look at the connector on your phone. In most phones that came out in the past two years, it'll be the widest thing on there. We're at the point that the connector is literally defining the minimum thickness the phone can be, because the phones can't get any thinner while still being able to plug the damn thing in.

This is seriously a huge case of backwards technologies being allowed to persist to a ridiculous degree just because people can't be assed with the minor inconvenience of having to switch to something that would be a net benefit to everyone. I seriously can't think of any other old technology that has made it this far with so much resistance against switching. We stopped using coal locomotives. We stopped putting carburetors in car engines. Why the fuck are we still in the audio dark ages?



I've had more 3.5mm cables break than USB cables and I used to plug in both on a daily basis in my car. I switched to Bluetooth partially because I didn't want to buy a 4th 3.5mm cable. One USB cable outlasted all three of the 3.5mm cables.

The fact that you are all in on Bluetooth audio suggests that you don't give a toss about audio quality. People with headphones worth several hundred dollars aren't going to want to buy new ones. Can you blame them?

Also, do you really think that phones are too thick? I'm pretty satisfied on that front. If I had a choice between a marginally thinner phone or one with a 3.5mm jack... well... seems an easy choice for me.

Anyway, I'm not against Usb C audio if it becomes a widely supported standard, has some benefits to audio quality, isn't prohibitively expensive, and doesn't lead to people getting dicked up and down with DRM. Let's see how it shapes up.

 

[Anion]

The fact that you are all in on Bluetooth audio suggests that you don't give a toss about audio quality. People with headphones worth several hundred dollars aren't going to want to buy new ones. Can you blame them?

Also, do you really think that phones are too thick? I'm pretty satisfied on that front. If I had a choice between a marginally thinner phone or one with a 3.5mm jack... well... seems an easy choice for me.

Anyway, I'm not against Usb C audio if it becomes a widely supported standard, has some benefits to audio quality, isn't prohibitively expensive, and doesn't lead to people getting dicked up and down with DRM. Let's see how it shapes up.

Could a simple updated headphone-to-phone wire be made? I would imagine many high end headphones have removable/replaceable wires. I know my $160 bose ones have it, so I would guess the much more costly ones have the same?

Anyways, I wish Apple would get rid of lightning all together and use USB C. Otherwise keep the jack lol.

 

[DOWN]

Skip skip pop pop, no thanks.

It's like travelling back in time to using a discman every time I hook anything up via Bluetooth audio.

That's not how Bluetooth works

 

[yanipheonu]

Alright, if we have to switch from headphone jacks (though why would you want to?), USB admittedly is the best solution. Hell, USB may actually be more commonplace than headphone ports at this point, and I'd assume you could get better sound quality out of it.

This is far more reasonable than any proprietary bullshit.

 

[Poimandres]

Could a simple updated headphone-to-phone wire be made? I would imagine many high end headphones have removable/replaceable wires. I know my $160 bose ones have it, so I would guess the much more costly ones have the same?

Anyways, I wish Apple would get rid of lightning all together and use USB C. Otherwise keep the jack lol.

That's actually a really good point! The replaceable cord with my Beyer's has extended their life greatly. Not sure if there would be complications supporting USB C in this way.

But yeah.... Apple can fuck off with their proprietary port.

 

[CorrisD]

I wouldn't mind replacing the audio jack with a higher audio quality port if everyone was onboard, they they aren't. Apple use their own similar connection but at a different size/connection port, and they are either going to do it via lightning or wireless, so that's already a large and popular phone maker out.

And then there's the whole taking up the charging port. Unless the USB-C headphone connection allows another to be plugged in the other side for charging or other uses it is a stupid design, same goes for Apple.

I'm not against updating things, but we'd be losing functionality of the actual phone and a port used across a massive amount of devices already existing.

 

[AstroNut325]

I welcome our new USB and wireless overlords.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

You have a funny idea of what the "truth" is. It's well known that the 3.5mm plug is dated technology.

Seriously, just take a look at the connector on your phone. In most phones that came out in the past two years, it'll be the widest thing on there. We're at the point that the connector is literally defining the minimum thickness the phone can be, because the phones can't get any thinner while still being able to plug the damn thing in.

This is seriously a huge case of backwards technologies being allowed to persist to a ridiculous degree just because people can't be assed with the minor inconvenience of having to switch to something that would be a net benefit to everyone. I seriously can't think of any other old technology that has made it this far with so much resistance against switching. We stopped using coal locomotives. We stopped putting carburetors in car engines. Why the fuck are we still in the audio dark ages?



I've had more 3.5mm cables break than USB cables and I used to plug in both on a daily basis in my car. I switched to Bluetooth partially because I didn't want to buy a 4th 3.5mm cable. One USB cable outlasted all three of the 3.5mm cables.

You are delusional if you think its about thinner phones.

 

[Koyuga]

Switching to either USB-C or Apple's lightning connector sounds clumsy and inconvenient. I don't know why any consumer would actually want this.

 

[Jzero]

My Nexus 6P is ready. I already bought some Ossic X which use Type-C but someone better come out with an small adapter that allows me to charge and listen to music at the same time.

 

[Krejlooc]

Is this still a thing in "piracy?" People using 3.5mm jacks to output audio to copy songs for mass pirate distribution?

Maybe if you get all fancy. Myself, I just put a microphone up to the speaker and hit record.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

The thing I don't like about usb c is the actual port. The actual physical design of apples lightning cable is better. Break the cord when it's plugged in you just need to replace the cable. With usb you break it off when plugged in you might have to replace the whole port.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Switching to either USB-C or Apple's lightning connector sounds clumsy and inconvenient. I don't know why any consumer would actually want this.

they don't.

 

[jdstorm]

You going to put anything to back that up?



I see several. Firstly, is the choice between external and internal DACs. External DACs can support higher quality sound at the cost of being bigger and weightier but can also reduce device cost by offloading it to peripherals. Since it seems like it can support analog you can also keep the DAC internal to the device, just have a different adaptor plug, this may have use with something like a software-defined DAC.

Another is power. USB now supports bidirectional power so you can say charge a wireless set of headphones while using them (best of both worlds wired/wireless) or have larger audio equipment charge players/computers while in use.

Another is scale. This would presumably let even mobile devices output the highest end home theater quality audio and you could change the type and bandwidth to match the outputs attached (save data on crappy earbuds).

Another is peripheral support. You could incorporate a compass and gyrometer into a set of headphones easily and make a static sound stage. Great for games and other immersive experiences (think VR minus the visuals). This can also open up things like path finding applications using just audio. Intel themselves have a prototype for earbuds that read your heart rate. It just makes sense to stack functionality into headphones just like we do with other mobile devices.

*rabble*device size*rabble*

There's of course self-serving reasons to adopt too but it's super disingenuous to suppose there is no reason.

Well that's not creepy at all.

 

[StarCreator]

The fact that you are all in on Bluetooth audio suggests that you don't give a toss about audio quality. People with headphones worth several hundred dollars aren't going to want to buy new ones. Can you blame them?

Also, do you really think that phones are too thick? I'm pretty satisfied on that front. If I had a choice between a marginally thinner phone or one with a 3.5mm jack... well... seems an easy choice for me.

Anyway, I'm not against Usb C audio if it becomes a widely supported standard, has some benefits to audio quality, isn't prohibitively expensive, and doesn't lead to people getting dicked up and down with DRM. Let's see how it shapes up.

I use Bluetooth in a car with my phone as the audio source. Not exactly studio conditions there; it's an easy choice to go Bluetooth for ease of use during a daily commute.

I do, in fact, own expensive headphones as well, but I would buy another set if there was a standard digital input option supported by phones.

I think the people saying this is a ploy for widely implementing DRM are wildly overreacting. I think phone manufacturers are aware that DRM for audio is near-universally disliked, or else iTunes would still employ it.

Well that's not creepy at all.

Yes, because no one buys Fitbits or Apple Watches that do the same thing.

 

[Bboy AJ]

LOL called it

I want a new tag in a couple of years. 3.5mm grim reaper, new audio standard messiah. Each letter of the new tag should link to all the luddites who fought against my prophecy. I am your messiah, children.

Funny how the hostility towards me for killing 3.5mm has been tempered with overwhelming realization that I'm going to be right LOL

Anyway, USB C will be for audiophiles. We'll have a better wireless standard. It's not about a wired connection.

 

[Mr_Appleby]

Nope every piece of music equipment worth a damn uses Aux 3.5

Damn it, just trying to fuck everything up and make me invest in pointless overpriced adapters

Every piece of music equipment my ass. Consumer grade portable music players use 3.5mm jacks. Prosumer upwards (mixing desks, audio interfaces etc) you will find 1/4" stereo jacks for headphones dominate.

 

[Poimandres]

I use Bluetooth in a car with my phone as the audio source. Not exactly studio conditions there; it's an easy choice to go Bluetooth for ease of use during a daily commute.

I do, in fact, own expensive headphones as well, but I would buy another set if there was a standard digital input option supported by phones.

I think the people saying this is a ploy for widely implementing DRM are wildly overreacting. I think phone manufacturers are aware that DRM for audio is near-universally disliked, or else iTunes would still employ it.

Bluetooth is definitely convenient in certain situations (car is a good one) so I see where you're coming from. I'm not going to be buying another set of headphones for this functionality though unless there is a very real benefit to sound quality (and the price isn't outrageous!). But, someone a few posts up bought up the idea of just getting a new compatible cord for the headphones instead of buying a new set which is far more palatable!

 

[Sniffynose]

So what I am getting out of this is they need to make people buy expensive new headphones with built in electronics to save some trivial amounts of space in their shitty phones that already bend if you keep it in your pocket...

L O L

 

[Wolf Akela]

Not a huge fan unless phones somehow have more than one port, or if there's gonna be some sort of audio/power splitter. I use my phone to listen to music while charging it, so that when I leave I always have full battery to last me whatever I do that night.

 

[pottuvoi]

Another is peripheral support. You could incorporate a compass and gyrometer into a set of headphones easily and make a static sound stage. Great for games and other immersive experiences (think VR minus the visuals). This can also open up things like path finding applications using just audio. Intel themselves have a prototype for earbuds that read your heart rate. It just makes sense to stack functionality into headphones just like we do with other mobile devices.

This is something I'm quite exited about.
Would be awesome for movies and games as you could follow actor in screen and so on.
There are lots of opportunities in having data/power in same cable.

 

[freenudemacusers]

LOL called it

I want a new tag in a couple of years. 3.5mm grim reaper, new audio standard messiah. Each letter of the new tag should link to all the luddites who fought against my prophecy. I am your messiah, children.

Funny how the hostility towards me for killing 3.5mm has been tempered with overwhelming realization that I'm going to be right LOL

Anyway, USB C will be for audiophiles. We'll have a better wireless standard. It's not about a wired connection.

Don't worry, in 5 years everyone will look at 3.5mm as they do vinyl. Old tech for Luddites or hipsters in college who need wall art.

 

[OriginalThinking]

This is only going to work if Apple use a wireless protocol which isn't Bluetooth. If they intend to push this, they'll need something which is superior. Unfortunately Bluetooth is beset by issues. Dropping the 3.5mm jack seems incredibly unnecessary.

 

[PartTimeWarrior]

Just let me stick to the 3.5 jack

I'm a simple man. I don't need a DRM cord that can try to block me from listening to some vaporwave

 

[Dead Man]

3.5 is used in so many things though, nobody wants to buy a dozen adapters.

 

[StarCreator]

This is only going to work if Apple use a wireless protocol which isn't Bluetooth. If they intend to push this, they'll need something which is superior. Unfortunately Bluetooth is beset by issues. Dropping the 3.5mm jack seems incredibly unnecessary.

Bluetooth is a constantly evolving technology. I'd be willing to bet most any issues you had with it have been resolved in newer iterations.

 

[funkystudent]

If it really is about DRM then lol. Who the fuck is using an analog jack to pirate music?

When I worked for a radio station it was how we could easily copy audio from random internet sources.


We also used mini discs to record stuff..... in 2012!




Also the music industry is a mix of paranoid control freaks + completely out of touch with the how people interact with technology. This makes perfect sense for them.