Support NeoGAF

[Steve Youngblood]

Also wow @ people celebrating obesity. I am all for loving who you are, but that does not mean that you should not make a better change for your body and mind.

Who is celebrating obesity?

 

[Devolution]

Also wow @ people celebrating obesity. I am all for loving who you are, but that does not mean that you should not make a better change for your body and mind.

Who the fuck is celebrating it? Where does this line of shit come from? There is a difference between being nothing but a critical self-righteous douche about body size and actually trying to gauge why obesity is such a fast growing issue and how we can change that without making obese or overweight people feel like dog shit.

 

[Deified Data]

But they already hate themselves.

Some do. Can't stop until they all do, eh?

Who is celebrating obesity?

The black and white worldview of these people prevents them from seeing any difference between tolerance of obesity and embracing it outright.

 

[KHarvey16]

LOL at comparing obesity to autism. One is a choice. The other isn't.

SeanR1221 chose to be obese as a child? Maybe he can answer that for us.

SeanR1221, were you obese as a child because you decided to be obese? I know when I was a kid I told my parents what to buy from the age of 2 months, so personally everything I ate as a kid was up to me. But was it the same for you?

 

[SeanR1221]

i'm sure repeatedly telling them to stop being weak and lazy would work wonders

That's my 0.00/hr rate.

I'll gladly write a behavior plan and do consult time with anyone here willin to pay me my actual rate.

I give you snarky comment a 2/10 on the funny scale.

 

[Dr.Guru of Peru]

LOL at comparing obesity to autism. One is a choice. The other isn't.

Obesity is as much a choice as being poor.

Chances are you're poor. Whats your excuse for that?

 

[kehs]

If you people want to have a valid reason for justifying obesity, at least try the sugar addiction angle.

That one actually holds some water, and has new data to back it up.

 

[vas_a_morir]

That cracked article really helped swing the tide against the GAF hivemind. Before that article called GAF out, fat hate threads were just BRUTAL. Now, you actually get a fair balance of opinion.

 

[MThanded]

LOL at comparing obesity to autism. One is a choice. The other isn't.

If you want to go there lets go there. I am overweight ( I have lost about 50 pounds and it has not been easy)

I gained weight in middle school even though I never ate school lunch and my parents were health food nuts. Never ate many processed foods and was pretty active. Hardly ever ate out and was not allowed candy etc. I never gained weight by engorging myself in food.

Oddly enough I have always eaten healthy. Lean meats and vegetables have always been my MO. I don't buy bread, processed foods and I make almost all my own meals. Have had blood tests etc. because it makes no sense but it seems that my body is very resistant to weight loss.

I eat low carb less than 1800 calories a day, work out 4 to 5 times a week. Have done this for a year and a half now. I barely ever lose any weight. Have a nutrionist, a personal trainer and I log nearly everything I eat.

Being overweight is not always a choice. I have been battling my weight for years now. As someone who eats healthier and works out more than most of my friends its not easy.

People seem to assume if you are overweight then you just eat what you want. Never been that way for me. People assume if you are overweight you aren't active.

Get that bullshit out of here. I really wish it was a choice for me. At least then I would be overweight for eating shit I want. However, I am not.

 

[SeanR1221]

SeanR1221 chose to be obese as a child? Maybe he can answer that for us.

SeanR1221, were you obese as a child because you decided to be obese? I know when I was a kid I told my parents what to buy from the age of 2 months, so personally everything I ate as a kid was up to me. But was it the same for you?

What in the fuck are you arguing?

The food I ate made me obese as a child and teen. If I was fed broccoli and chicken my whole life would I still be obese?

No matter what my parents did differently my sister would still have autism.

What can't you grasp here? It's a little unnerving.

 

[Devolution]

If you want to go there lets go there. I am overweight ( I have lost about 50 pounds and it has not been easy)

I gained weight in middle school even though I never ate school lunch and my parents were health food nuts. Never ate many processed foods and was pretty active. Hardly ever ate out and was not allowed candy etc. I never gained weight by engorging myself in food.

Oddly enough I have always eaten healthy. Lean meats and vegetables have always been my MO. I don't buy bread, processed foods and I make almost all my own meals.

I eat low carb less than 1800 calories a day, work out 4 to 5 times a week. Have done this for a year and a half now. I barely ever lose any weight. Have a nutrionist, a personal trainer and I log nearly everything I eat.

Being overweight is not always a choice. I have been battling my weight for years now. As someone who eats healthier and works out more than most of my friends its not easy.

People seem to assume if you are overweight then you just eat what you want. Never been that way for me.


Get that bullshit out of here.

And at the reverse side of the spectrum I don't have to do shit but I'm automatically the better person to people despite how much work and dedication you go through to keep off pounds while I can be a lazy schmuck. This is why fat shaming is bullshit.

 

[KHarvey16]

What in the fuck are you arguing?

The food I ate made me obese as a child and teen. If I was fed broccoli and chicken my whole life would I still be obese?

No matter what my parents did differently my sister would still have autism.

What can't you grasp here? It's a little unnerving.

So you didn't choose to be obese. You, as an individual, did not have a choice when you were a child. That is the whole point. Your obesity was not the result of your conscious decisions. Being weak had nothing to do with it.

 

[Deified Data]

What in the fuck are you arguing?

The food I ate made me obese as a child and teen. If I was fed broccoli and chicken my whole life would I still be obese?

No matter what my parents did differently my sister would still have autism.

What can't you grasp here? It's a little unnerving.

I think he's arguing that you didn't have much choice over what you ate when you were a child. I could be wrong.

 

[maharg]

If you people want to have a valid reason for justifying obesity, at least try the sugar addiction angle.

That one actually holds some water, and has new data to back it up.

The only side of this that's trying to pretend there's only one cause of obesity outside an individual's control is the side that thinks almost no obesity is justified. And it's inevitably "lawl hormonal imbalance".

So you didn't choose to be obese. You, as an individual, did not have a choice when you were a child. That is the whole point. Your obesity was not the result of your conscious decisions. Being weak had nothing to do with it.

However, you should really drop the autism thing. It's obvious this has some pretty significant personal connotations to SeanR and I'm sure a better example along the same lines could be found.

 

[somuchwater]

That cracked article really helped swing the tide against the GAF hivemind. Before that article called GAF out, fat hate threads were just BRUTAL. Now, you actually get a fair balance of opinion.

GAF, like a lot of nerd-friendly sites, tends to lean libertarian, which is why (I think) there's so much emphasis on self-discipline and self-control, and this refusal to accept the ideas that not everyone has the same opportunities, propensities, capabilities etc.

If you want to go there lets go there. I am overweight ( I have lost about 50 pounds and it has not been easy)

I gained weight in middle school even though I never ate school lunch and my parents were health food nuts. Never ate many processed foods and was pretty active. Hardly ever ate out and was not allowed candy etc. I never gained weight by engorging myself in food.

Oddly enough I have always eaten healthy. Lean meats and vegetables have always been my MO. I don't buy bread, processed foods and I make almost all my own meals. Have had blood tests etc. because it makes no sense but it seems that my body is very resistant to weight loss.

I eat low carb less than 1800 calories a day, work out 4 to 5 times a week. Have done this for a year and a half now. I barely ever lose any weight. Have a nutrionist, a personal trainer and I log nearly everything I eat.

Being overweight is not always a choice. I have been battling my weight for years now. As someone who eats healthier and works out more than most of my friends its not easy.

People seem to assume if you are overweight then you just eat what you want. Never been that way for me. People assume if you are overweight you aren't active.

Get that bullshit out of here. I really wish it was a choice for me. At least then I would be overweight for eating shit I want. However, I am not.

Well-said! Now to wait for the inevitable "okay, but that just means you have to work harder" comment...

 

[Deleted member 12837]

No allowance for mental illness, depression, time constraints, etc? Either do it or you're weak? This is a poor argument on any front and actually does a large disservice if your goal is actually to improve things. Misdiagnosing the cause of a problem will lead to prescribing the wrong solution.

I've made it pretty clear that I'm allowing for the rare medical conditions that make obesity essentially incurable (or require very specific, constant medical attention). The same logic extends to addictions. If you have a severe mental illness that makes seeking treatment for an addition nearly impossible to do, then the mental illness should shift to your #1 priority, obviously, because it's standing in your way of treating the next thing, your addiction.

Time constraints are a bullshit excuse. Taking care of your body and health should be one of everyone's top priorities. That doesn't mean you need to be ripped or an athlete. You just need to be healthy.

Other important priorities (caring for and protecting family, making enough money to support yourself and family, etc) are all directly, negatively impacted by obesity. Improving health will improve the others by default.

You can find time to make small, simple changes that go a long way.

I'm not saying it's always easy. It's not. It can be tough. Very tough. But a person going through life not doing important things just because they're difficult is exactly what a weak person is. A weak person gives up without trying and calls these "tough" things "impossible".

You are anecdotal evidence that suggests people can be born into obesity. Whether it's genetics or being surrounded by a bunch of weak willed people who love corn syrup, a child is powerless to break free from it. I never suggested both were curable. We're discussing something specific.

An infant may be powerless, but an adult is not. Obesity is reversible, you aren't "stuck" that way permanently just because you were "born into" obesity. It just means you have a much more difficult starting point to getting healthy than others.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Being a child and obese is a bit different. I thought the general debate was talking about adults who are obese.

 

[Deified Data]

GAF, like a lot of nerd-friendly sites, tends to lean libertarian, which is why (I think) there's so much emphasis on self-discipline and self-control, and this refusal to accept the ideas that not everyone has the same opportunities, propensities, capabilities etc.

GAF does not lean libertarian. Any bootstrapper you see on GAF is an outlier, for better or worse.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

GAF, like a lot of nerd-friendly sites, tends to lean libertarian,

Wait, what. You can't be serious.

 

[Divvy]

Anyone who thinks gaf is libertarian has obviously not seen the ron paul thread.

 

[Devolution]

GAF is not an all encompassing entity. There are pet threads for certain posters. And I'd say the "responsibility" jive ultimately depends on the topic at hand. Fat threads are much different from say paternity threads.

 

[maharg]

GAF does not lean libertarian.

GAF has a higher number of people who would generally identify as libertarian than the population at large. Lower, perhaps, than most nerd-culture places, but it's still pretty high.

Most threads like this turn into battles between libertarian ideals and social democratic ideals. Occasionally there's some neoliberals around.

Anyone who thinks gaf is libertarian has obviously not seen the ron paul thread.

Ron Paul's brand of libertarianism is, I suspect, ridiculous even to most people who could be seen as libertarian.

 

[somuchwater]

Man, I spend a lot of time on GAF, but I guess I was wrong about the libertarian thing. Ignore me, carry on.

 

[Deified Data]

GAF has a higher number of people who would generally identify as libertarian than the population at large. Lower, perhaps, than most nerd-culture places, but it's still pretty high.

Most threads like this turn into battles between libertarian ideals and social democratic ideals. Occasionally there's some neoliberals around.

I have libertarian sympathies but I also take into account the realities of living in a mutually-supportive society. That's the basis of my expressed views in threads like these.

Man, I spend a lot of time on GAF, but I guess I was wrong about the libertarian thing. Ignore me, carry on.

Don't feel too bad - they definitely exist, and in significant numbers, but in my experience their views draw a lot of ire from GAF-proper.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Man, I spend a lot of time on GAF, but I guess I was wrong about the libertarian thing. Ignore me, carry on.

There are certainly plenty of loud and proud libertarians on Gaf, but that doesn't mean the site veers in that way.

 

[KHarvey16]

I've made it pretty clear that I'm allowing for the rare medical conditions that make obesity essentially incurable (or require very specific, constant medical attention). The same logic extends to addictions. If you have a severe mental illness that makes seeking treatment for an addition nearly impossible to do, then the mental illness should shift to your #1 priority, obviously, because it's standing in your way of treating the next thing, your addiction.

Addiction is a mental condition itself. If you think severe mental illness is one of the only viable excuses for not seeking treatment for addiction, I'm really not sure what to tell you. Experience with addicts should really convince you otherwise, but I honestly hope that's not something you have had to or will need to deal with(either in yourself or others). Humans are complicated things.

Time constraints are a bullshit excuse. Taking care of your body and health should be one of everyone's top priorities. That doesn't mean you need to be ripped or an athlete. You just need to be healthy.

No offense meant but the word naive is the only response I can come up with for this.

Other important priorities (caring for and protecting family, making enough money to support yourself and family, etc) are all directly, negatively impacted by obesity. Improving health will improve the others by default.

You can find time to make small, simple changes that go a long way.

I'm not saying it's always easy. It's not. It can be tough. Very tough. But a person going through life not doing important things just because they're difficult is exactly what a weak person is. A weak person gives up without trying and calls these "tough" things "impossible".

Again, just wrapping up all these complicated life factors and calling it "weakness" doesn't help anyone or anything. It's a terrible way to look at the problem.

An infant may be powerless, but an adult is not.

Food choices are generally made for people until well past being an infant. Would you consider overcoming a lifetime of eating habits a difficult task that would take more than simply not being weak and lazy to accomplish? I hope so.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

If you want to go there lets go there. I am overweight ( I have lost about 50 pounds and it has not been easy)

I gained weight in middle school even though I never ate school lunch and my parents were health food nuts. Never ate many processed foods and was pretty active. Hardly ever ate out and was not allowed candy etc. I never gained weight by engorging myself in food.

Oddly enough I have always eaten healthy. Lean meats and vegetables have always been my MO. I don't buy bread, processed foods and I make almost all my own meals. Have had blood tests etc. because it makes no sense but it seems that my body is very resistant to weight loss.

I eat low carb less than 1800 calories a day, work out 4 to 5 times a week. Have done this for a year and a half now. I barely ever lose any weight. Have a nutrionist, a personal trainer and I log nearly everything I eat.




Being overweight is not always a choice. I have been battling my weight for years now. As someone who eats healthier and works out more than most of my friends its not easy.

People seem to assume if you are overweight then you just eat what you want. Never been that way for me. People assume if you are overweight you aren't active.

Get that bullshit out of here. I really wish it was a choice for me. At least then I would be overweight for eating shit I want. However, I am not.

So, you must be fit and probably not overweight at all, therefore, you're defending yourself when nobody is talking to you.

And in terms of children and obesity, that is the problem. That is the downward spiral. That's when freedom and indoctrination blurs into an impossible soup. That should be our cultural's motivation to kick its own ass back to reality. These kind of cultural problems only get worse and worse as it chisels deeper and deeper into the stone of our psyche (and maybe) genetics.

 

[Divvy]

Ron Paul's brand of libertarianism is, I suspect, ridiculous even to most people who could be seen as libertarian.

Hehe true. I suppose that the age distribution of gaf lends to higher than average libertarian representation than the population.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I'm not saying it's always easy. It's not. It can be tough. Very tough. But a person going through life not doing important things just because they're difficult is exactly what a weak person is. A weak person gives up without trying and calls these "tough" things "impossible".

The first point is that why should one not focus on relating to struggle as opposed to calling them weak for not overcoming it? That's the whole crux of the issue. The point isn't for us all to hold hands and sit around the campfire singing Christina Aguilera's Beautiful so as to feel good about who we are instead of aspiring to be better. The point is to understand that we are all wired differently. Asserting that you have succeeded at something that you prioritized, and people who don't behave in a similar fashion are fundamentally flawed undermines any attempt you might have at wanting to seem helpful or inspirational.

The second is that I don't think many people honestly suggest that being healthy is impossible. Suggesting that people do that is really just a means of writing them off. This all illustrates that this sort of "advice" is about allowing the person offering it to have a sense of superiority.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think everyone is missing the broader point of the (admittedly not very good) autism comparison: how can a person who works with autistic people not recognize that the brain is a machine capable of malfunctioning or breaking down? Its like an auto-mechanic who insists that trains are powered by magic.

 

[maharg]

Hehe true. I suppose that the age distribution of gaf lends to higher than average libertarian representation than the population.

Nah, it's a much broader thing than that. Nerd culture places extreme emphasis on the value of brainpower, in terms of both intelligence and will. We all tend to idolize people who have had some large impact on the world through sheer force of will and intelligence. Thus, even those of us who *don't* identify as libertarian are prone to ideas along its lines. We all want to be Batman, and Batman works alone.

 

[The Technomancer]

Nah, it's a much broader thing than that. Nerd culture places extreme emphasis on the value of brainpower, both in terms of intelligence and will. We all tend to idolize people who have had some large impact on the world through sheer force of will and intelligence. Thus, even those of us who *don't* identify as libertarian are prone to ideas along its line.

This is certainly true, and it also ties into the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" idea. No-one who divides the world into "smart people" and "stupid people" ever puts themselves in the latter category.

 

[SeanR1221]

So you didn't choose to be obese. You, as an individual, did not have a choice when you were a child. That is the whole point. Your obesity was not the result of your conscious decisions. Being weak had nothing to do with it.

Grown adults have no choice?

Once again, I didn't come into this world a screaming obese blob. I was made that way by food.

My sister on the other hand was born autistic.

Can you stop with the rediculous argument now?

Being a child and obese is a bit different. I thought the general debate was talking about adults who are obese.

Exactly.

I think everyone is missing the broader point of the (admittedly not very good) autism comparison: how can a person who works with autistic people not recognize that the brain is a machine capable of malfunctioning or breaking down? Its like an auto-mechanic who insists that trains are powered by magic.

Add this to the not very good argument pile. Autism is a neurological disorder which has an effect on extremely important areas of life such as language and socialization. Comparing it to people who reinforce themselves with food is foolish.

 

[Keavy_Rain]

I'm shocked at how many people misinterpreted my post.

The point was this: I did the "Don't eat junk, exercise" thing and was miserable. What I've done instead is cut back on the junk, increased the good stuff, and am slowly ramping up to the insane workouts.

As someone else said, exercise for fat people is not fun. I'm 6'5", 425lbs and I find walking for 30 minutes to be what I can handle at this point. My goal is to add at least five minutes per month. In January, I'll use my Christmas bonus to buy a bike and ride said bike around the neighborhood in addition to my walking.

For lunch today, I had a turkey burger, broccoli, and one can of soda. Same lunch I've had for the past six weeks. Lunch used to be sandwiches, chips, and two sodas. I'd say that's an improvement. Maybe not the improvement some people want, but I'm happy with it.

I know I'll eventually lose weight and I'll know I did it in a healthy and maintainable way. My story was put out there to let the other people trying to lose weight know that sometimes the "All or nothing" method doesn't work and sometimes we fail. Instead of rushing back to my old ways, I decided to make the changes slowly and I don't beat myself up if I'm too tired to go to the gym after work or if I eat too much junk food. I just pretend it didn't happen and eat a healthier meal for the next one.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

No offense meant but the word naive is the only response I can come up with for this.

I'd like to know what's more important in life than surviving and staying out of health trouble (which also includes anything else that depends on your own survival ex: the survival of others close to you, etc)

Again, just wrapping up all these complicated life factors and calling it "weakness" doesn't help anyone or anything. It's a terrible way to look at the problem.

I'm not here to offer a support group. I never made any claim that simply telling people they're "weak" and leaving it at that is an effective way of solving the problem.

Food choices are generally made for people until well past being an infant. Would you consider overcoming a lifetime of eating habits a difficult task that would take more than simply not being weak and lazy to accomplish? I hope so.

Again, overcoming a lifetime of eating habits can be a herculean task, yes. But if you just sit around and don't even try, then yes I'm going to attribute much of that to being lazy/weak.

Also again, it's not the sole reason for obesity, but it is a common one, and one that's easy to address and work on. It will go a long way towards starting to address the other factors in play. I'd argue it's essential that it be the first thing addressed.

I'm shocked at how many people misinterpreted my post.

The point was this: I did the "Don't eat junk, exercise" thing and was miserable. What I've done instead is cut back on the junk, increased the good stuff, and am slowly ramping up to the insane workouts.

As someone else said, exercise for fat people is not fun. I'm 6'5", 425lbs and I find walking for 30 minutes to be what I can handle at this point. My goal is to add at least five minutes per month. In January, I'll use my Christmas bonus to buy a bike and ride said bike around the neighborhood in addition to my walking.

For lunch today, I had a turkey burger, broccoli, and one can of soda. Same lunch I've had for the past six weeks. Lunch used to be sandwiches, chips, and two sodas. I'd say that's an improvement. Maybe not the improvement some people want, but I'm happy with it.

I know I'll eventually lose weight and I'll know I did it in a healthy and maintainable way. My story was put out there to let the other people trying to lose weight know that sometimes the "All or nothing" method doesn't work and sometimes we fail. Instead of rushing back to my old ways, I decided to make the changes slowly and I don't beat myself up if I'm too tired to go to the gym after work or if I eat too much junk food. I just pretend it didn't happen and eat a healthier meal for the next one.

TBH, your first post made it seem like you completely reverted to your old ways, rather than work towards better health through moderation (as you've clarified).

Sounds like you're making great progress, and good decisions/choices. You didn't completely give up at the first sign of adversity. You persevered and found something that's working for you.

 

[KHarvey16]

Grown adults have no choice?

Once again, I didn't come into this world a screaming obese blob. I was made that way by food.

My sister on the other hand was born autistic.

Can you stop with the reticulum argument now?

Let's focus on the obesity. You were born and became obese through no choice of your own. It was NOT the result of weakness. 8 year old you would not have benefited from an expensive pep talk given by grown up you.

 

[The Technomancer]

Add this to the not very good argument pile. Autism is a neurological disorder which has an effect on extremely important areas of life such as language and socialization. Comparing it to people who reinforce themselves with food is foolish.

Yeah, its a very bad comparison, but only in terms of magnitude. Obesity is never going to be anywhere near as bad as autism in the mental space but you seem to reject that obesity has any connection to the physical mind at all. Despite all of the research to the contrary.

 

[kehs]

As someone else said, exercise for fat people is not fun. .

Here's a little known fact, even fit people don't find hard exercise "fun". It's the benefits and reward that make people power through it.

 

[Divvy]

Nah, it's a much broader thing than that. Nerd culture places extreme emphasis on the value of brainpower, in terms of both intelligence and will. We all tend to idolize people who have had some large impact on the world through sheer force of will and intelligence. Thus, even those of us who *don't* identify as libertarian are prone to ideas along its lines. We all want to be Batman, and Batman works alone.

That makes sense. Although I can relate with that philosophy, personally, it doesn't lead me to libertarianism at all.

 

[maharg]

Here's a little known fact, even fit people don't find hard exercise "fun". It's the benefits and reward that make people power through it.

Ehhh. That's not really true. Or at least overstating things pretty substantially. I find cycling, swimming, and weight lifting genuinely fun on their own merits.

I have a hard time believing anyone actually finds running enjoyable, though. But I still recognize that a lot of people get a high off it directly, and not out of some perceived abstract benefit.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Exercising for skinny people aint fun either. I HATE working out.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Let's focus on the obesity. You were born and became obese through no choice of your own. It was NOT the result of weakness. 8 year old you would not have benefited from an expensive pep talk given by grown up you.

No one is saying that childhood obesity comes about as a result of weakness.

Sigh.

 

[ThisWreckage]

The irony is that she is overweight, but has remarkably thin skin when it comes to what other people think.

 

[SeanR1221]

Let's focus on the obesity. You were born and became obese through no choice of your own. It was NOT the result of weakness. 8 year old you would not have benefited from an expensive pep talk given by grown up you.

Done. It's like arguing with a wall.

Yeah, its a very bad comparison, but only in terms of magnitude. Obesity is never going to be anywhere near as bad as autism in the mental space but you seem to reject that obesity has any connection to the physical mind at all. Despite all of the research to the contrary.

Because in most cases it has ties to reinforcement theory. That's a easy fix compared to something like autism.

Even years of reinforcement can be reversed pretty easily.

If you can show me neurological articles showing that obese people flew in the face of reinforcement theory, I'd love to see them. I'm being sincere here.

In grad school I took an independent study behavior theory on weight loss and never came across something like that.

 

[MThanded]

Exercising for skinny people aint fun either. I HATE working out.

There are a lot of "skinny" people who don't exercise and don't eat right.

Being skinny and being healthy are 2 different things. There seems to be an assumption that all people who are skinny put the time into be skinny and all people who are not skinny eat double cheeseburgers 6 times a day and never step a foot in the gym.

Shit isn't true. For some it it but its not true for all. Lets not paint broad strokes.

One of my best friends is skinny as a stick and used to eat hamburgers for all of his meals and never works out. To this day he eats a lot of processed foods.

 

[KHarvey16]

I'd like to know what's more important in life than surviving (which also includes anything else that depends on your own survival ex: the survival of others close to you, etc)

This isn't a math problem. Choices, whether it's what to have for dinner or who to marry, are always the result of vastly complicated scenarios and thought processes and mental states.

I'm not here to offer a support group. I never made any claim that simply telling people they're "weak" and leaving it at that is an effective way of solving the problem.

It's not an effective way to solve the problem because it's the wrong diagnoses. The process by which this problem is boiled down to simply weakness can only be charitably described as an over simplification. A needless, dangerous, counter productive over simplification.

Again, overcoming a lifetime of eating habits can be a herculean task, yes. But if you just sit around and don't even try, then yes I'm going to attribute much of that to being lazy/weak.

Also again, it's not the sole reason for obesity, but it is a common one, and one that's easy to address and work on. It will go a long way towards starting to address the other factors in play. I'd argue it's essential that it be the first thing addressed.

Define try. Is it only action? Does it start mentally? Is the inability or unwillingness to mentally or physically try not perhaps the result of more complicated factors than weakness and laziness? I don't understand why this classification appeals to you and others so much despite its glaring deficiencies. Not only is it an improper diagnoses but it actually makes any person being labelled as such less likely to do any of the things you suggest are needed.

 

[kehs]

Ehhh. That's not really true. Or at least overstating things pretty substantially. I find cycling, swimming, and weight lifting genuinely fun on their own merits.

I have a hard time believing anyone actually finds running enjoyable, though. But I still recognize that a lot of people get a high off it directly, and not out of some perceived abstract benefit.

People who enjoy the activities are typically people who turn them into recreational hobbies.

If we're talking about exercising for the purpose of weight loss or mass gains, then you have to do some shitty and hard exercises that make you want to feel like dying to reach your goals.

And yes, anyone who enjoys running is a freak of nature.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

There are a lot of "skinny" people who don't exercise and don't eat right.

Being skinny and being healthy are 2 different things. There seems to be an assumption that all people who are skinny put the time into be skinny and all people who are not skinny eat double cheeseburgers 6 times a day and never step a foot in the gym.

Shit isn't true. For some it it but its not true for all. Lets not pain broad strokes.

What the hell are you talking about? Jesus Christ, I was responding to exercising not being fun just for fat people, but it can also be for skinny people, too.

Luckily for me I eat healthy and I have the body of a Greek god.

 

[KHarvey16]

No one is saying that childhood obesity comes about as a result of weakness.

Sigh.

Done. It's like arguing with a wall.

Childhood obesity and the position that leaves a person in as an adult means that the inability to overcome that would not be classified by any thinking person as weakness! Are poor inner city youth weak for not going to college? Oh, maybe some of them don't give a shit but painting with the huge brush of stupid and declaring the only cause to be weakness is ironic in what it represents as far as critical thought.

 

[TomServo]

If folks would put the same effort into being fit as they do in defending NOT being fit, well, this discussion wouldn't be necessary.