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[AmishNazi]

Sigh...so depressing. Where are the [classical] liberals at home and liberal interventionalists abroad? Is Fred Thompson the only one even close? I'm not voting for DA.

I don't remember where I signed up for more slow creep of fascism.

If you are a liberal interventionist I would think someone who says stuff like...

I've got a couple of quotes for you, I want to see you if you can identify them. Quote number one: ". . . Oil is the umbilical cord and lifeline of the crusader community. . . ." Quote number two: ". . . focus your operations on oil, especially in Iraq and the Gulf area, since this will cause them to die off on their own. . . ." The first quote, the words of Al-Qaeda. The second quote, the words of Osama Bin-Laden. More than anything else, these comments represent a realization of the American weakness that the rest of the world understands and knows about. It's a realization that for all of our military might, our economic dominance, the Achilles heel of this country is the oil that we cannot live without.

Let's take a look at what is happening right now. In Iran, you've got an Islamic, fundamentalist government that is saying Israel should be wiped of the map, and that the Holocaust did not happen. We are sending them billions of dollars in exchange for their oil, they, in turn, are using that money to help finance nuclear programs. In Nigeria, we've got militant rebels who have been attacking the country's oil pipelines in recent weeks, and that's meant soaring prices at the pump. They are our fifth largest source of oil imports, not a country that has been known for its stability, or its human rights record. Right now, Sudan, because of its oil capacity, is able to fend off the kinds of sanctions that should be applied to them for the tragic activities that are taking place in Darfur. The point is that our enemies are fully aware that they can use oil as a weapon against America. And if we don't take this threat as seriously as the bombs that those enemies build, or the guns that they buy, we're going to be fighting this war on terror for a long, long time.

would be of interest to you....

 

[Joe]

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Obama is leading on Facebook / ABC with 58%.

Link?

 

[Clevinger]

I disagree. All that they have in common is the religious element; Bush embodies all of the negative things about Christianity (fear, greed, ignorance), whereas Huckabee also incorporates some of its positive aspects (mercy, charity, humility). Huckabee's also a few orders of magnitude smarter than Bush. The difference is very real; that's why the right wingers are terrified of the guy and will rally behind McCain if it comes to that.

Uh, except he also doesn't believe in same sex marriage or evolution (fear, ignorance), and has said his Christian faith will shape his policies. I believe he also similarly (and hypocritically) believes in that whole Thou Shall Not Kill thing, but still believes in capital punishment.

The only difference between Huckabee and Bush right now is Huckabee is far more intelligent and articulate. He's suave as fuck all, but not much more of anything else.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Was anyone else nerdy enough to think of Halo 2 when Obama started that speech "There are those that said this day would never come..." (What have they to say now)???

Anyways, I'm political, but don't get into these elections at all, but it is kind of refreshing to see Obama do this. I hope he wins NH and just puts this thing away.

 

[tnw]

well say what you will, but apparently we're doing something right if everyone keeps riding our coattails, not to mention we're always the first ones they call when shit goes down. in my opinion, we should continue to "americanize" countries. installing major conglomerates in third world nations would not only cut down on at least some of the aid we provide every year, but it would also create jobs and revenue. i'm as liberal as they come, but these people need to saved from themselves.

yes, because america is doing so well on so many fronts. America is a young vast country with lots of natural resources. That's it. The last thing we need is to americanize other countries.

Honestly, get the hell out of your own country and live in a different culture for a little while.

 

[Kitschkraft]

Uh, except he also doesn't believe in same sex marriage or evolution (fear, ignorance), and has said his Christianity faith will shape his policies. I believe he also similarly (and hypocritically) believes in that whole Thou Shall Not Kill thing, but still believes in capitol punishment.

The only difference between Huckabee and Bush right now is Huckabee is far more intelligent and articulate. He's suave as fuck all, but not much more of anything else.

I personally don't want to see Huckabee win this shit at all.

I can't stand to think of ANOTHER southern accented, born again, up in the ovul office representing America again.....I don't really know how they differ on issues, Huckabee obviously doesn't have that family backround, but I just can't get past their whole "aura" of backwardness that they represent to me because of their faith influencing their decisions.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Great piece on the youth mobilizing behind Obama in Iowa.

My thought: oh sure, you've got smart kids with degrees from fancy colleges. Good academic skills. But what do they know? And will they really do the work when the weather gets cold? Or were they mostly here to hang out with each other for the fun of it?

Well, they had fun, but while they were in Iowa they figured out how the game worked to an astonishing degree. Their methods were a mix of innovation and tradition. They took their cell phones and turned texting into an organizing tool (a technique that was used in Iraq, of all places, two years ago). They drew up precinct-walking maps with more color-coding and record-keeping than any I had ever seen (and I've seen many over the years.) They did more training of precinct captains for the caucuses than any other campaign--and, after they trained them, they trained them again.

And here I thought that the youth that got involved in campaigns were just in it for the GORP.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Great piece on the youth mobilizing behind Obama in Iowa.



And here I thought that the youth that got involved in campaigns were just in it for the GORP.

I think that Obama, potentially, can energise young & black people like never before. I think, if he gets the nomination, they could help him win a state that NO ONE thinks he could a few months before the election. Something one considers very Republican but with a relatively cosmopolitan feel.

 

[AmishNazi]

I think that Obama, potentially, can energise young & black people like never before. I think, if he gets the nomination, they could help him win a state that NO ONE things he could a few months before the election. Something one considers very Republican but with a relatively cosmopolitan feel.

O hi A. I live here. It sucks I actually had some one try to convince me Obama is a sleeper agent based on his name alone

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

I think that Obama, potentially, can energise young & black people like never before. I think, if he gets the nomination, they could help him win a state that NO ONE things he could a few months before the election. Something one considers very Republican but with a relatively cosmopolitan feel.

I would love to see a movement working the system with the same efficiency Rove did in 2000 and 2004 but in a completely different way and to a completely different end.

 

[Maximilian E.]

well say what you will, but apparently we're doing something right if everyone keeps riding our coattails, not to mention we're always the first ones they call when shit goes down. in my opinion, we should continue to "americanize" countries. installing major conglomerates in third world nations would not only cut down on at least some of the aid we provide every year, but it would also create jobs and revenue. i'm as liberal as they come, but these people need to saved from themselves.

you should be the ad boy for "This is what happens when you do drugs".
Seriously, stop it now..

 

[AniHawk]

This man will be President. Unless he gets shot or something.

I hope to god this doesn't happen.

 

[Diablos]

oh geez

 

[avaya]

:lol You clearly haven't been overseas.

No, what he said is true. Most people think unfavourably of America due to the Republican party and its latest President. Democrat is moderate conservative in Europe. Republican is....

Prior to Bush America had high ratings amongst people. The BBC did a whole show on this.

 

[Link1110]

505 votes for Duncan Hunter? Between this and Snakes on a plane, it's official, a badass name and nothing else is completely worthless.

 

[ratcliffja]

If you've seen one Obama speech, you've seen them all, but this one's the latest fad.

Thanks, that was rather inspiring.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

oh geez

Would you prefer they Daily News?:

 

[Wanace]

I'm a registered Republican. I will be voting for Paul in my state's primary (which will mean nothing in the grand scheme of things) but Obama in the general election when he inevitably

Spoiler

oh please God let him win the nomination

wins the Democratic nomination.

 

[Cheebs]

We need to see some NH polls post Iowa STAT. Pre-Iowa he was falling about 6% behind Hillary. I really hope this changes.

The first Reuters/C-Span/Zogby tracking poll in New Hampshire taken just before the Iowa caucuses was released this morning. This will be the baseline to see how the Iowa results impact likely voters in the Granite State.

For Democrats, Sen. Hillary Clinton leads with 32%, followed by Sen. Barack Obama at 26%, and John Edwards at 20%.

 

[AmishNazi]

Is it just me or does Huckabee look a lot like Kevin Spacey?

 

[Enron]

Ignore them. Ron Paul haters have officially surpassed Ron Fans as far as being annoying. They were neck and neck for a long time, but this thread has pushed them over the top.

waaa.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

We need to see some NH polls post Iowa STAT. Pre-Iowa he was falling about 6% behind Hillary. I really hope this changes.

I think he has a pretty incredible amount of momentum. I think his speech will have tipped a lot of independents and wavering Clinton voters into his court.

 

[Cheebs]

I think he has a pretty incredible amount of momentum. I think his speech will have tipped a lot of independents and wavering Clinton voters into his court.

I don't want to get too hyped and NH has a tendency to do the opposite of what Iowa does.

Polls turned out damn accurate for Iowa so we really need to see some new NH numbers.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

obama v. huckabee
that would be race I can stomach at least.

 

[Cheebs]

I know my fellow dems HATE Huckabee. But while I would NEVER EVER vote for him he seems like a nice honest guy who truely not a neocon in any form at all. He would be a step up from Bush.

 

[theBishop]

Uh, except he also doesn't believe in same sex marriage or evolution (fear, ignorance), and has said his Christian faith will shape his policies. I believe he also similarly (and hypocritically) believes in that whole Thou Shall Not Kill thing, but still believes in capital punishment.

The only difference between Huckabee and Bush right now is Huckabee is far more intelligent and articulate. He's suave as fuck all, but not much more of anything else.

there is another difference: Bush is a blue-blood. He's US royalty. Went to Yale, comes from a wealthy family. Bush's father is a former president, Huckabee's father was a fireman. I'm not sure what these differences say about the Huckabee candidacy, but I does strike me as significant.

PS: wrong use of "fuck all" there.

 

[antoniogaud]

Is it just me or does Huckabee look a lot like Kevin Spacey?

My wife has been saying that all week. He also SOUNDS like Spacey.

(Go Obama)

 

[TheDrowningMan]

My wife has been saying that all week. He also SOUNDS like Spacey.

(Go Obama)

And Spacey is, by most accounts, a homosexual man. Can some sort of 'link' between the two be leaked to Huckabee's core audience? :lol

 

[Cheebs]

And Spacey is, by most accounts, a homosexual man. Can some sort of 'link' between the two be leaked to Huckabee's core audience? :lol

Come on now, that is just uncalled for.

 

[AmishNazi]

The more I look at that picture the more the second guy from the left creeps me out to no end :lol

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Come on now, that is just uncalled for.

I don't think a light-hearted remark - a joke - is really in the same territory as wanting to, ohh, quarantine AIDS patients, is it?

 

[TheDrowningMan]

The more I look at that picture the more the second guy from the left creeps me out to no end :lol

That's Huckster's son, isn't it?

 

[Tim the Wiz]

Is it just me or does Huckabee look a lot like Kevin Spacey?

No... it is Kevin Spacey. Huckabee never lost that weight. It's all a charade! Wake up!

And ah, the international interest in American politics is always going to be strong. Economically, militarily, socially, etc. The Western World in general is heavily dependent on America in these areas. Although Australia is unique in the fact that China has probably overtaken America as our main trading partner with the advent of the mining boom and their relentless economic growth, and what with stormy times to come in the American economy, this could be a very good thing indeed. In any case, the President of America is called the most influential man in the world for good reason.

Moving towards actively "Americanizing" the rest of the world, though, is a bit much. I like living in a Western country like Australia, but even if South Africa isn't as industrialized or better off in terms of economic stability and equality, the patriotism amongst most South Africans will never die. I'm as proud of my roots as the next person and for all its problems, its still my favourite place on this planet.

However, the world is getting smaller every year, and for this reason, the dominance of America is always going to have a cultural effect. Younger generations who are less engraved in the traditions of those older than them will demonstrate this more, but for all that, there is a strong underlying patriotism and uniqueness of culture amongst most peoples or nations. Please don't discount that.

Anyway, glad to see an Obama victory. Kevin Rudd and Tony Blair are the only other recent politicians which I'd count as matching him in the orating stakes. Sad to think you have to go back a decade for Nelson Mandela. Time flies by, doesn't it? If Obama wins New Hampshire, well, it's going to be tough for Hillary - and I call it as a Democrat win this year, as far as an outsider can call it, of course.

It'll be a tough presidency for the person that wins though. There's going to be an expectation from Democrats that their President will be solving problems. But some of the problems America has - social security, health care, the credit crisis and an expected upcoming recession (hopefully it will be a short downturn), terrorism, etc. - aren't going to be solved in one term. Whoever wins will have a mountain to climb.

 

[Cheebs]

Here is something we need to keep in mind going into NH:

New Hampshire has not done well by Iowa’s winners. George H.W. Bush won Iowa in 1980 but lost to Ronald Reagan in New Hampshire. Then Bob Dole won Iowa in 1988 but lost to Bush in New Hampshire. Dole won Iowa in 1996, but lost to Pat Buchanan in New Hampshire and George W. bush won Iowa in 2000 but lost to John McCain in New Hampshire

 

[scorcho]

why is everyone crowning Huckabee already? considering the amount of religious conservatives who came out to vote it really was a perfect storm that will not be repeated in New Hampshire.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

why is everyone crowning Huckabee already? considering the amount of religious conservatives who came out to vote it really was a perfect storm that will not be repeated in New Hampshire.

They really aren't, but they are saying that he beat the shit out of Romney with far fewer dollars.

What most people are looking for in NH is whether Romney can beat McCain or not. If Romney loses both of these, few people believe he will be able to recover in time for Super Tuesday.

 

[ToxicAdam]

why is everyone crowning Huckabee already? considering the amount of religious conservatives who came out to vote it really was a perfect storm that will not be repeated in New Hampshire.

Well, I said it earlier in the thread. Iowa means nothing .. but the combined results of Iowa/NH/SC will give you a solid idea who is going to win.

 

[Tobor]

It's the Jed Bartlett Factor. Part of the appeal of watching The West Wing, especially in the time when it aired, was this insane fantasy of a likeable president who, every week, was committed to improving America, whose staff was committed to their jobs and knew that they were pretty much the most important jobs on Earth. You'd watch it and you'd think, "MAN, I don't think I've seen anyone feel that way about the presidency in years. It's just shuffling fucking blame around and dodging shit. It's not about America or what America is supposed to be about." Remember that episode when Jed's campaigning and there's that Pipe Bombing and he gives this fucking specTACULAR speech, maybe the best one in the show's history, and you're like "Man, I don't think I've ever heard a president talk like that or act like that, at least in my lifetime." It wasn't about fear or bullshit, it was about America and hope. And every week you'd visit this fantasy land and then turn on the news and see what new thing Bush clapped up and watch Jon Stewart continue on his meteoric rise to embracing the same inflammatory numb stupidity, just on the other side of the fence and it was this non-stop game of Dueling Banjos.

For like eight years.

Last night was the first time I can remember when I saw and heard someone who wasn't at all like that. It was a speech that could have only been written by Sam Seaborn or Toby Ziegler. It was something that I'd honestly never expected to see from a presidential candidate in real life.

In short, it was the first presidential thing I'd seen on television in over eight years that wasn't completely made up by a drug addict.

And I doubt I'm the only one got that impression.

This post was so incredibly awesome Benjamin. I felt the same way. I could almost hear the West Wing theme swell up at the end of his speech.

 

[benjipwns]

If you are a liberal interventionist I would think someone who says stuff like...would be of interest to you....

Obama and Huckabee are my least favorite candidates by quite a bit. I supported ending the war with Iraq in 2003, Obama was opposed. If I'm not mistaken he wants to invade Pakistan to enact "regime change" there. We're on different wavelengths of interventionalism. Plus his domestic policies and rhetoric make me cry kittens. (I am that adorable.)

I'm also not on board with the "war on cynicism". I'm a big cynicism fan.

I think I should note, as a recent non-junior, that I have extreme political stances, and I'm aware of it. I am also a political junkie of sorts, and that is my day-to-day business, political history especially.

I'm just dreading a Obama/Clinton vs. Huckabee/Romney/McCain showdown, as I don't want to vote for any of them. I'd only vote for Rudy (since he's a lingering top favorite on the Repub side) because I think his work in NYC was solid, along with his "twelve committments" which seem good. Obama vs. Huckabee scares me as blatant rhetoric over substance, it's one thing if it's not the only thing the candidates are running on. I just can't imagine either of them being good Presidents, Obama has been avoiding the tough political decisions in the Senate, and Huckabee is an idiot.

 

[ConsumerSquare]

I dunno, I'd like it if the VP nod went to somebody who wasn't an also-ran this time around.

I agree, Edwards/Obama is the way to go.

 

[Cheebs]

I agree, Edwards/Obama is the way to go.

Edwards? His campaign is over. He put everything into winning Iowa. His support is very weak in NH and will collapse in the next few days.

 

[scorcho]

Obama and Huckabee are my least favorite candidates by quite a bit. I supported ending the war with Iraq in 2003, Obama was opposed. If I'm not mistaken he wants to invade Pakistan to enact "regime change" there. We're on different wavelengths of interventionalism. Plus his domestic policies and rhetoric make me cry kittens. (I am that adorable.)

hey, i can make up fake Obama policies to make him look bad too!

 

[ndiicm]

hey, i can make up fake Obama policies to make him look bad too!

lol it's amazing isn't it.

 

[benjipwns]

He doesn't want to remove Musharraf from power? I thought for sure he'd said that recently, I know Huckabee did. I did say "if I'm not mistaken" though. Biden and Dodd dropping out will only help me in keeping track of people.

EDIT: I tried looking for it, I'm not finding what I thought I read a few weeks back. I would say I was wrong, but instead, I will blame others by saying that Obama just says what people want to hear, so I interpreted his words about Pakistan was wanting to remove Musharraf.

 

[ConsumerSquare]

Edwards? His campaign is over. He put everything into winning Iowa. His support is very weak in NH and will collapse in the next few days.

Yeah, I was making a joke in response to Hito's reply about Edwards being an also ran.

But really, I think Obama would be great VP material. Shame he had to come in and ruin this election with his Token Centrist Guy schtick.

 

[scorcho]

if i'm not mistaken, Obama is also a radical muslim and has said to his muslim supporters that he will destroy the US if elected.

this is fun!

 

[KarishBHR]

Well, I said it earlier in the thread. Iowa means nothing .. but the combined results of Iowa/NH/SC will give you a solid idea who is going to win.

Here is why this just isn't true:

Momentum. Mainly for Obama this time around... Huckabee could just be a flash in the pan.

Bottom line is this to many people: A Black man just won a large election in a place with very few black people. All those blacks who were supporting clinton all this time.... will they really stand in the way of the first viable black candidate?

There will be some change in thought over the next few days... and if Obama wins NH he will take SC and if he takes all three, super tuesday could be his

 

[iapetus]

if i'm not mistaken, Obama is also a radical muslim and has said to his muslim supporters that he will destroy the US if elected.

this is fun!

If I'm not mistaken, he also eats babies - though not as many as Huckabee.

 

[TheKingsCrown]

Yeah, I was making a joke in response to Hito's reply about Edwards being an also ran.

But really, I think Obama would be great VP material. Shame he had to come in and ruin this election with his Token Centrist Guy schtick.

Going back to Edwards, it seems to be widely reported he will throw his support behind Obama if he drops out.