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[Corpsepyre]

This is really sad. System Shock, Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite are some of my favourite games, but atleast they ended on a high note (for me, anyway.)

 

[Violence Jack]

So sad yet so promising all at the same time. System Shock 2, BI and Bioshock 1 and 2 were beautiful games.

Godspeed Irrational Games and I hope their staff finds work quickly.

 

[Jibbajabbawockky]

I don't think it's that mysterious really.

BioShock Infinite took 5.5 years to develop and had high senior staff churn. The game didn't sell enough copies relative to its cost. There wasn't a lot of reason to believe the next one would get done much faster or be notably more profitable. As such, they canned the studio as they try to make the publisher as a whole profitable.

The only thing that makes this seem abnormal at first glance is that they were an incredibly high rated studio that sold millions of copies, but that doesn't change the core of the business equation.

Yeah, its still kind of a sobering picture on the state of "AAA" game development.

It just seems like a bit of a trap for some developers who are given a decent amount of freedom in making the game they want to make but with all of that publisher allocated time and resources, the financial expectations go through the roof.

So you end up with something like BioShock Infinite where it seemingly sold pretty good but apparently not nearly well enough relative to how much time and resources went into it. Maybe that's the fault of somebody like Ken Levine or the developers making the big calls of the game. But it seems kind of scary for any big developer trying to take their time on a big game, since it seems like if you spend more than a couple years on a given "AAA" game and it doesn't put out GTA, Call of Duty or Skyrim numbers, you're liable to get shuttered.

 

[Guevara]

Oh man I look forward to the yearly installments of Bioshock of Duty. Given the story in Bioshock Infinite it would actually be really easy to do.

 

[Sectorseven]

I'm curious as to who they would farm out a new Bioshock to. 2K Marin is dead, its remnants folded into 2K San Francisco. Then Rod Fergusson, that studio's head, left for Black Tusk Studios and Gears of War. The studio still exists, according to 2K, so they could be working on a new Bioshock project. Besides that I don't know what internal studios would make sense. Firaxis? Gearbox? (Does the latter even count?)

How about 4A Games (Metro: Last Light)?

 

[bishopcruz]

No, Take-Two told him he couldn't keep the studio going as is and offered him this as the only option to keep anyone on board, but obviously he's not going to say that publicly.

They didn't mention BioShock Infinite in their recent fiscal report. It's pretty obvious it was not up to expectations sales wise and they're unwilling to keep going with Irrational's cost structure and dev lengths.

Irrational wasn't going to survive another, even more expensive gen with their insanely costly/lengthy dev cycles unless Take-Two had truly lost it.

Interested to see what Levine accomplishes with a smaller team.

I said last year that I expected Take-Two to shut down Irrational Games once Bioshock Infinite is released. Quite simply, because I couldn't imagine that Infinite would be able to make a profit, after so many years of development. Once nothing happened for months and months after its release, I thought Take-Two wouldn't close down Irrational after all. Apparently I was wrong.

Not sure if Levine's story is to be trusted. He's still remaining at Take-Two, so I can imagine that he's not quite faithful with the way he tells the story. I believe him when he says that he wants to work with a smaller team again, but then again I also believe that it wasn't a completely voluntary decision.

It's nice to see that Take-Two gives the talent room to land on their feet, however. And I'm confident that Ken Levine's games become more enjoyable when he's working with a smaller budget. I doubt that he wanted Infinite to become so shootery either, it's just what needed to be done in order to sell the game to a huge audience.

All of these. I know the thread is moving fast, but these posts deserve to be quoted.

It wasn't that Infinite didn't sell well, or wasn't a great game. I loved it, and clearly so did a lot of other people. The problem was the fact that if you look at the game over time, it was clearly in development hell or at the very least development heck. The game came out half a year late, the entire story seems to have changed at least once during development, and costs on the project were ballooning out of control.

Hell I remember an interview soon after the game came out where one of the devs, or Ken himself, mentioned that there were entire completed levels that were torn down and rebuilt from scratch because Ken didn't like the final look. The overall design was sound, but it really seems that Irrational took too long to find out what didn't work in order to get at what did. Thus costs were too high. The game had a roughly 5 1/2 year development cycle.

5 1/2 years. That's about the same amount of time Rockstar spent on GTAV. It's hard for a product to be profitable when stuff like that occurs. I love Ken's work, and I look forward to his smaller team stuff, but it seems pretty clear that he might not be the best guy at running a large team like Infinite's. And as talented as he is, he might be like Tim Schrieffer and have problems keeping budgets under control, which is especially important now.

Big budgets can indeed hurt the industry, but as this case shows, going overbudget on these titles hurts it even more.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Bioshock is a sacred series to my. Infinite was a masterpiece! So bummed right now. And I hope the staff who lost jobs find new ones quickly. They are very talented.

 

[a Master Ninja]

This blows.

So it's basicslly the end of Bioshock, right? My favorite trilogy of all time...

Bioshock 2 apparently isn't canon.

 

[sflufan]

Gearbox?

Gearbox is independent.

 

[Opiate]

They're doing Mafia 3 currently: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=750353&highlight=mafia

Gearbox is an independent studio, but yes they would probably take the project if offered, though I'm not sure if they would be Take-Two's first choice.

I could also imagine a series hiatus or a very considerable reimagining. Not necessarily a whole new genre, but Mass Effect 3 (for instance) played dramatically differently than Mass Effect 1 did in an effort to justify the series' high production costs.

At least Bioware's ME team turns out a game every 2-3 years instead of every 4-5.

 

[bidguy]

They're doing Mafia 3 currently: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=750353&highlight=mafia

Gearbox is an independent studio, but yes they would probably take the project if offered, though I'm not sure if they would be Take-Two's first choice.

do you think 2K would sell bioshock to the highest bidder ? allthough im not sure if its worth much since the story was a different one in every game

 

[dreamfall]

This is pretty damn upsetting.

Levine + Irrational were pretty rad- BioShock 1 was fucking incredible. What followed never really hit me the same way, but they were great games too.

I hope all that were let go get hired elsewhere quickly :/

 

[sflufan]

How about 4A Games (Metro: Last Light)?

4A Games is independent and they are currently associated with Deep Silver as their publisher.

 

[Prompto]

Fuck This is terrible.

 

[foxtrot3d]

So it's basicslly the end of Bioshock, right? My favorite trilogy of all time...

Infinite was and should be the end of the BioShock series. Hence why I'm partially relieved that Ken will be working on something new, I just want that new thing to have AAA production value.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I haven't read the whole thread but the feeling I get is that most people think this is a bad thing.

I for one think this is great news. Bioshock Infinite was a revolutionary game. In the sense that it was the game that sparked the most discussion about the flawed way in which games tell stories. Tons of people saw how the narrative was being hindered by that kind of gameplay.

I guess Ken saw it as well and now he just cant go on doing these huge AAA games anymore.

He's a brilliant game designer and he will now have the freedom to do what he wants.

Most people think it's a bad thing because most people don't take the time to analyze the story of Infinite to that extent. A lot of gamers thought Infinite's story was great.

You have a minority viewpoint, even if it is informed.

 

[jacksepticeye]

Not as bad as I initially feared. It sure sucks for people losing jobs but it's not a total write off.

Ken making a smaller team to focus more and make better more concise games is only good news. Infinite went through a lot of shit and redesigns and I wouldn't be surprised if they compromised a lot of stuff in that game just to make sure it made some money back by appealing to a wider audience

As for the death of Bioshock talk it will likely stay going won't it? just without Ken? That would be kinda shitty but honestly I would like to see Ken do different games again. He's had his Bioshock time and Infinite wasn't as good as the original to me, still a great game but didn't have that magic of the first. I wanna see him flex his muscles again

Hopefully when all is said ad done we start seeing some really great stuff again.

 

[Cameron122]

My dream of a new freedom force is dead

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Bioshock 2 apparently isn't canon.

Yeaaaaah that's not really down to Levine anymore.

 

[daman824]

Damn....... hopeully everyone ends up somewhere they actually want to be.

And bioshock is still going to continue? I can't imagine who they would give it to right now. Which sadly means the franchise is going to be in limbo for quite a while now. Which really sucks. I bet infinite would have been a lot more like the initial open gameplay reveal if it wasn't for the 360 & ps3 limitations.

 

[ronito]

Taking nearly 6 years to make a game gets leads to think that maybe its not a good idea? Shocking.

 

[Acosta]

They're doing Mafia 3 currently: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=750353&highlight=mafia

Gearbox is an independent studio, but yes they would probably take the project if offered, though I'm not sure if they would be Take-Two's first choice.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO Don't even mention it

 

[Visualante2]

Brain trust, more like brain tumour.

 

[Harlock]

I hope this bring back middle tier games in the long run. Like indie games one step further.

 

[bishopcruz]

I could also imagine a series hiatus or a very considerable reimagining. Not necessarily a whole new genre, but Mass Effect 3 (for instance) played dramatically differently than Mass Effect 1 did in an effort to justify the series' high production costs.

At least Bioware's ME team turns out a game every 2-3 years instead of every 4-5.

I honestly would love a very in depth behind the scenes of just what the hell happened with the development of this game. 5 1/2 years is a hellish development cycle.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

I look forward to Ken's and ex-Irrational's future projects.

 

[Logash]

Sucks, I loved Infinite and was really interested in where the series would go next. While I guess I can say I still am, I still feel less interested.

 

[Stranya]

For my first post here (hello!), I'll say:

(1) Damn.

(2) I wonder what he has in mind by "replayable narrative". Maybe something David Cage-esque.

 

[jetpacks was yes]

Damn, this sucks. The best studio on the east coast...

 

[Coconut]

Technically isn't this the second time this has happened?

 

[xxracerxx]

Terrible to the 100+ people that just lost their jobs.

 

[Patryn]

News like this makes me begin to think that the people saying this will be the final console generation may have a point.

 

[red731]

The hell

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Time for Santa Monica to do some fishing, that big new building doesnt fill itself.

 

[foxtrot3d]

For my first post here (hello!), I'll say:

(1) Damn.

(2) I wonder what he has in mind by "replayable narrative". Maybe something David Cage-esque.

 

[daman824]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO Don't even mention it

Gearbox would probably take their time on a bioshock game. I doubt it would be another aliens scenario. Bioshock is a goty franchise, not a licensed one.

 

[Pain]

A shame. Bioshock Infinite was a great game.

 

[Bigbillybeef]

A truly sad day.

Thanks for all the great work you did Irrational. Some of the most incredible places I've ever visited in my life were created by your beautiful and twisted minds

Here's looking forward to whatever you few survivors make next. I have no doubt that it will be awesome.

 

[Nirolak]

I could also imagine a series hiatus or a very considerable reimagining. Not necessarily a whole new genre, but Mass Effect 3 (for instance) played dramatically differently than Mass Effect 1 did in an effort to justify the series' high production costs.

At least Bioware's ME team turns out a game every 2-3 years instead of every 4-5.

I think you could make a few tweaks and just lower the budget to get it in the reasonable range. I'd imagine a combat encounter overhaul, perhaps adding in multiplayer, and perhaps throwing in some more openness and/or RPG mechancis to match the direction the market is heading.

I mean at 4-5+ million copies a game the biggest current issue is the development cost more than the implementation.

do you think 2K would sell bioshock to the highest bidder ? allthough im not sure if its worth much since the story was a different one in every game

I imagine they will just find a studio who can ship a game in 2-3 years with the BioShock brand on it at a reasonable (80+ MC) level and ride on the brand strength.

There's no incentive for them to sell the IP. Their strength as a publisher is defined by their IP catalog.

 

[Mrbob]

Did Ken Levine just fire almost everyone from Irrational to go indie? Damn.

 

[Baron_Calamity]

This is really crappy news. Hopefully everyone who lost a job quickly finds a new home and Bioshock gets some new awesome developers.

 

[Coffee Dog]

I hope this bring back middle tier games in the long run. Like indie games one step further.

It already has, but on PC, where experimentation is more widely welcomed. You aren't going to see B-tier games on consoles for a long while.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Woah.

 

[Whiskeymatt]

For my first post here (hello!), I'll say:

(1) Damn.

(2) I wonder what he has in mind by "replayable narrative". Maybe something David Cage-esque.

David Cage is awful, so I would hope not. And I don't see how that would fit replayable narrative.

 

[Acosta]

Gearbox would probably take their time on a bioshock game. I doubt it would be another aliens scenario. Bioshock is a goty franchise, not a licensed one.

They are not suited for the task. I don't say it for Aliens. I like Gearbox, they do some good stuff, but they can't make Bioshock work.

Man, I can't believe we are discussing this, this seems so random...

 

[gogosox8]

Thinking KL is more of the fall guy in this equation

Yep. It sounds like a financial decision from T2 but they made Levine deliver the news.

 

[chrominance]

Gearbox is independent.

Yeah, I was just going off what seems to be a reasonably tight relationship with 2K based on Borderlands. I think 2K's main internal studios are Firaxis and Rockstar these days.

As an aside, shots fired by JP LeBreton, former Bioshock dev.

 

[Mooreberg]

Irrational is wholly owned by Take 2 - wouldn't it have been their final decision on what happens with the rest of the studio? They must have at least endorsed his decision.

Good luck to everybody impacted by this.

 

[Opiate]

I honestly would love a very in depth behind the scenes of just what the hell happened with the development of this game. 5 1/2 years is a hellish development cycle.

I would point out that Bioshock Infinite is not the only project at Take 2 seems with a prolonged development time. GTAV took nearly 5 years, and RDR took even longer than that. This approach works fine if the game sells 20M+ like GTA, but not so great if the game sells "only" 5M like Bioshock.

 

[Wiktor]

Shame. There are very few western studios with portofolio that comes anywhere near Irrational's one.