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Is 1080p accessible thru component?
- Thread starter CO_Andy
- Start date
Shogmaster
Member
CO_Andy said:
First of all, component is not D-sub/VGA. FW900 only accepts D-Sub/VGA and other analog RGB formats. No way to play PS3 on FW900 without a $200+ component > VGA transcoder, and it's a far from ideal set up.
Manmademan
Member
short answer: no. You'll only get 1080i out of component. 1080p requires HDCP, which in turn requires HDMI.
It's a moot point though. Televisions that can accept 1080p via component are rare as hell. The 1080p via Xbox component is almost always upscaled 1080i.
It's a moot point though. Televisions that can accept 1080p via component are rare as hell. The 1080p via Xbox component is almost always upscaled 1080i.
plagiarize
Banned
1080p through component is available on the 360 and the PS3, though currently, only the PS3 has games that are natively in 1080p. conversely, games in 720p on the 360 look better on a 1080p set than games in 720p on a ps3 (assuming equal graphics).
furthermore, blu-ray or hd-dvd playback on both will not output at 1080p, only 1080i, but then any half decent 1080p set will pulldown that back to 1080p. only real noticeable difference is if you have a 1080p set with 24hz mode (but then currently the ps3 and 360 don't support 1080p24).
furthermore, blu-ray or hd-dvd playback on both will not output at 1080p, only 1080i, but then any half decent 1080p set will pulldown that back to 1080p. only real noticeable difference is if you have a 1080p set with 24hz mode (but then currently the ps3 and 360 don't support 1080p24).
plagiarize
Banned
your short answer is only for HDCP protected content, ie blu-ray and hd-dvd films... nothing else.Manmademan said:
Manmademan
Member
plagiarize said:
Games on Ps3 are HDCP protected also. it's not just the movies.
plagiarize
Banned
it really is just the movies. there is NO reason to use HDCP on a videogame.Manmademan said:
Manmademan
Member
ManaByte said:
no, because 720p and 1080i don't require HDCP protection. component has carried these signals on pretty much everything from cable boxes to game consoles for years. only the 1080p is protected and requires HDMI.
There may not be a REASON to copy protect games, but I imagine it was an "everything or nothing" situation.
For definitive proof on the issue: from http://www.ps3forums.com/showthread.php?t=50796
This is not a software thing. This is hardware. The HDMI output of the PS3 will not work if you do not have a 100% HDCP path to the display.
I have an HDCP display, but my KVM switch isn't HDCP, so even though I have a 100% pure digital passthrough, I can't display ANYTHING from the PS3 on this display through the switch.
This IS an upgraded monitor; it's a 1920x1200 24" LCD. It works beautifully.
The problem is, when I bought my KVM switch, I had no reason to think I cared about HDCP, so I bought a $200 switch which has full support for every resolution up to 1920x1200, instead of a $600 switch which has that support, plus HDCP licensing.
So, even though the monitor works with any ONE system, if I use it with my switch, I can't use the PS3 with it.
HDCP has nothing at all to do with people copying games. It has only to do with a desire to prevent people from copying the video output in high-def.
The main thing here is, the claims that it only affects specific software using it are FALSE. There is no video mode on this system where you do not need 100% HDCP compliance if you are trying to use the DVI output.
The manual for the monitor is hilarious; it is full of examples of things that might cause HDCP to stop working, all of which are addressed by rebooting your video source (the PS3, or DVD player) so they can renegotiate.
As an example, if you have a receiver with two HDMI inputs, and you switch between them, this may require you to power cycle them.
There's threads about this all over the place. Doesn't take long to find them.
possible? yes, my samsung accepted and displayed 1080p from the 360 on component. Not many TVs accept 1080p on component though. My sony only accepts it thru HDMI.
edit:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLS5087WXXAA.asp that is the TV, great set but I saw the dreaded rainbows so I had to exchange it.
It was cool to run the 360 in 1080p mode but honestly I didn't see a diffrence between the 360 or the TV upscalling it.
edit:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/DLPTV/HLS5087WXXAA.asp that is the TV, great set but I saw the dreaded rainbows so I had to exchange it.
It was cool to run the 360 in 1080p mode but honestly I didn't see a diffrence between the 360 or the TV upscalling it.
plagiarize
Banned
1080p is an entirely seperate standard that is unrelated to HDCP. part of HDCP's specification is that 1080i is the maximum video resolution allowed over component, but there is nothing in 1080p's specification that requires HDMI or HDCP.Manmademan said:
Manmademan
Member
ManaByte said:
see my answer above. as I don't feel like reposting it. No, I don't own a ps3, but yes, I do know what I'm talking about. HDCP does not limit analog output to 480p. Do you even own an HDTV?
ManaByte
Member
deadhorse32
Bad Art
plagiarize said:
It's true HDCP is enabled during games
see : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119055 for more info
Manmademan
Member
ManaByte said:
what you quoted only refers to input/output from a digital receiver. has nothing to do with the PS3.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
Ranger X said:
Component is sufficient enough but isn't encrypted. HDMI is jus here because of the MPAA & Hollywood
Manmademan
Member
Ranger X said:
that's exactly right. manufacturers were concerned that having unprotected purely digital HDTV feeds would lead to rampant piracy. Since component CAN carry 1080p, they simply stopped manufacturing tv's that would accept 1080p through that input, then saddled the pure digital feeds (HDMI/DVI) with HDCP to prevent copying.
I can only assume that for the Ps3, it was simpler to go with an "HDCP always on" setup, than to bother having the system detect what was a game and what wasn't in case users found a way to "trick" the system into unprotecting movies.
of course, this is only theory.
Did anyone happen to see that comparison made on Impress Watch a while ago?
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061218/ggl.htm#ps
It demonstrates the difference between various display modes. As you can see from the picture above, there is actually a difference in image quality between HDMI and D-terminal (component).
Check out the site and click on the two 1080p full RR7 shots. You can see a clear difference between the two connections.
This test was done using one of the Sony 1080p Bravia sets.
HDMI
Component/D-Terminal
Look at the vents on the car along with the white text and you can see a clear difference.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061218/ggl.htm#ps
It demonstrates the difference between various display modes. As you can see from the picture above, there is actually a difference in image quality between HDMI and D-terminal (component).
Check out the site and click on the two 1080p full RR7 shots. You can see a clear difference between the two connections.
This test was done using one of the Sony 1080p Bravia sets.
HDMI
Component/D-Terminal
Look at the vents on the car along with the white text and you can see a clear difference.
Shogmaster
Member
Time to update my chart? :lol
plagiarize
Banned
goddamn that's stupid.Milhouse31 said:
so is that a confirmation that the ps3 *cannot* do 1080p over component? i specifically remember sony saying that it could before launch. why couldn't they just have the blu-ray playing software handle the hdcp situation in the same way as blu-ray and hd-dvd playback on pcs?
they're just talking about when using hdmi though, it's still possible that hdcp is only enable during gameplay while using hdmi. i'm *sure* the ps3 can do 1080p over component.
if it couldn't, microsoft would have been pointing and laughing already.
edit: okay... good. we just got pictures proving it can.
dark10x said:Did anyone happen to see that comparison made on Impress Watch a while ago?
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061218/ggl.htm#ps
I find it funny that 1080i looks better than 1080p in this shot (by better I mean more closely resembling HDMI). A lot of this has to do with how the TV handles the signals.
Manmademan
Member
plagiarize said:
Yes, the HDCP is always enabled over HDMI. Whether or not the Ps3 can do 1080p over component (it can't) is a moot point though, since no HDCP compliant tv on the market currently accepts 1080p via component.
That's half the reason why microsoft's claim of 1080p via component is so ridiculous. almost no TV out there will handle the signal properly.
The Faceless Master
Member
plagiarize
Banned
so what tv did dark10x post those comparison pictures from?Manmademan said:
Try opening both of these links and alt tabbing...RavenFox said:
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061218/ggl04.htm
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061218/ggl06.htm
The first link is 1080p via D-terminal while the second is 1080i via D-terminal. I still shots, 1080i clearly looks superior. In motion, however the advantage might go to 1080p (technically it should), but the quality of the scaler in the TV may actually produce a more visually pleasing result at 1080i. Still, it's obvious that HDMI is the way to go.
Manmademan
Member
plagiarize said:
those were taken from a Sony Bravia, which most CERTAINLY doesn't accept 1080p via component ins.
I can't read Japanese though, so I can't tell you anything more about the test.
plagiarize
Banned
heck, even if they looked the same, HDMI is more convenient.dark10x said:
I can, and it says that they did...Manmademan said:
Picture of 1080p input connected via D-terminal - this is the description of the second picture
They discuss this even more in the article stating that 1080p via HDMI appeared "sharper" than 1080p via D-terminal.
These tests were conducted on a Sony KDL-40X2500. Of course, that is a Japanese model, so it is entirely possible that the US model functions a tad differently.
Even when displayed at 1080p via the ANALOG D-terminal, it was more than pretty enough, however, in comparison, we felt that HDMI 1.3a was sharper.
D端子 basically IS component.
Manmademan
Member
dark10x said:
Yeah, I just read that over. I read "D-terminal" as "DVI-D." Don't ask me why. Chalk it up to a brain fart.
I've never seen a D-terminal in on a TV here...from the VERY brief summary I checked out on it a moment ago, it looks like a japanese standard that doesn't really exist over here but does support both 1080p and 1080i.
Manmademan said:Yeah, I just read that over. I read "D-terminal" as "DVI-D." Don't ask me why. Chalk it up to a brain fart.
I've never seen a D-terminal in on a TV here...from the VERY brief summary I checked out on it a moment ago, it looks like a japanese standard that doesn't really exist over here but does support both 1080p and 1080i.
It's the same thing, basically.
Something I just noticed while looking at the high res stills. The pictures are off-screen, hence any movement of the camera will give you very slight blurring.
This appears like it may just be the case in this shot because I got very similar results while trying to take pictures of gears off my tv. So really, this could be way off IQ wise when speaking of sharpness.
And to the poster that said 1080p looked better than 1080i, your desires outweigh fact for you obviously.
This appears like it may just be the case in this shot because I got very similar results while trying to take pictures of gears off my tv. So really, this could be way off IQ wise when speaking of sharpness.
And to the poster that said 1080p looked better than 1080i, your desires outweigh fact for you obviously.
Pristine_Condition
Member
Manmademan said:
Nope. Samsung's LN-Sxx95Ds and LN-Sxx96Ds say "hi." Probably a few others do too, but those are ones I know of for sure.
Manmademan
Member
Pristine_Condition said:
I'd forgotten about the samsungs. I have also heard of a few other models that will "upscale" 1080i through component ins and claim to display it as 1080p. HDTV standards are a mess.
Yes, but it IS possible to obtain an incredibly accurate photograph of on-screen content if you know what you are doing. Based on the quality of their pictures (which are excellent), I'd say they know what they are doing.JoatesDogg187 said:
If you browse through snapshot threads, you'll notice a huge discrepancy between different peoples shots. It's not an easy thing to do right, that's for certain.
dark10x said:
Oh yes Im fully aware, as it took me many many shots to get crisp pictures out of my camera.
I do agree though that it does look like they knew what they were doing and the shots were accurate but it is a very logical explanation as to why the difference between 1080p/i as they currently are.
Manmademan said:
The TV is not upscaling a 1080i image in the new sets. My Samsung HLS DLP will accept 1080p over component, and so will the newer LCDs. Now, the 360 certainly is upscaling the image, but not the TV. When MS finally releases some lame XBLA that is 1080p native, my set will display every single progessive line.
Manmademan
Member
squicken said:
I know the samsungs are 1080p native over component, they don't upscale. There were one or two "off brands" that claimed 1080p over component, but only accepted 1080i then upscaled it. a little deceptive, but what can you do.
I was looking to see which models those were, but can't seem to find them.