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[DeaconKnowledge]

about time somebody mentions this. i don't get either, if we're talking about overall sales and not hardcore-gaf-members sales

People were pinning the system's fortunes on Ratchet and Clank for God's sake. Honestly MGS is a step up from the "Wait for"'s of 2007.

 

[Metalmurphy]

There are a couple of ways the phrase "AAA game" could be interpreted, and a high quality (ie high reviewed) game would be one of them. Another is what you're getting at, where "AAA game" means something that had a lot of money, time, and energy sunk into it. Still another would be "AAA game" meaning a game that sells very well.

LAIR is one of these, and definitely not the other two.

There is only one correct way though For some reason people started associating AAA to reviews recently... but that's not what it means at all.

http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/Trenches/Trenches1198.html
CTRL+F -> "Presently, in 1998"

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

There is only one correct way though For some reason people started associating AAA to reviews recently... but that's not what it means at all.

http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/Trenches/Trenches1198.html
CTRL+F -> "Presently, in 1998"

But you see, people were using the phrase long before 1998, and in the variety of ways I've listed. I'm a prescriptivist to the core, mm, but I don't know the precise root of the phrase and thus I'm forced to allow all these dirty descriptivist meanings.

 

[Wii-za]

Mmmm...I think that 2007 was THAT year...but for the sake of everyones mental health lets say that 2008 is gonna be the REAL "make or break" year for Sony.



Oh, and btw...my personal opinion is that the PS3 is not gonna come back...sorry guys.

 

[Phife Dawg]

There is only one correct way though For some reason people started associating AAA to reviews recently... but that's not what it means at all.

http://www.stardock.com/stardock/articles/Trenches/Trenches1198.html
CTRL+F -> "Presently, in 1998"

What's Stardock got to do with the definition of AAA?

I always thought the term AAA was derived from rating agencies that use this way to rate the credit-worthiness of nations, firms, persons. As such the term AAA refers more to the quality and not the effort put into a product.

I think Segata is right on this one, there is no definition for the term and it could be seen in different ways.

 

[Jokeropia]

Didn't Nintendo once posted a net loss in one quarter? I'm pretty sure they did.

I think they might've had a quarterly or half year loss of about $26 million in 2003 (FY 2004), but the fiscal year overall was still a $316 million profit.

 

[justjohn]

its a make or break year for phil harrison.

 

[Golden Darkness]

People who own Wii or DS will still need a media center.

I think Media Centers are still far from becoming a integral part of every household yet.

 

[Dunlop]

People who own Wii or DS will still need a media center.

100% agree. I got into my Wii over the holidays and set it up for transcoding with TVersity (even though I have a 360 and they are on the same TV....I need help) and wow does it blow.

I just need Sony to give me a reason to buy it so I can use it to stream videos upstairs in my house via WiFi.

 

[Azelover]

I think Media Centers are still far from becoming a integral part of every household yet.

Agree. Still, it wouldn't be the PS3.

 

[RubberJohnny]

People really need to come out with statistics for Europe to support their claims. There is no evidence that PS3 sales in Europe are so far ahead of the 360 to outweigh the US-minus-Japan figures.

If you are someone who claims this the burden of proof is on your side, and without supporting evidence the default setting for a statement is false.

 

[Dave Long]

I think Media Centers are still far from becoming a integral part of every household yet.

Yeah, I read that comment and my eyes rolled so hard I strained them both.

You know what the Media Center is for 99% of people? The PC. That isn't going to change anytime soon, and that's just one of the many reasons I think Microsoft's blown money on the Xbox project would've been better spent on the PC as a games platform/all-in-one media center. Instead we're stuck with Vista.

Sony needs to focus PS3 on exclusive games that are outside of the 360's SHOOTER#5,691 market. Instead of making another Resistance or another Uncharted, find something just as big but with less gunplay. LittleBigPlanet starring Sackboy is not this game.

 

[haunts]

I think Media Centers are still far from becoming a integral part of every household yet.

yeah, its a luxury item unlike a dvd player.

 

[tanod]

People really need to come out with statistics for Europe to support their claims. There is no evidence that PS3 sales in Europe are so far ahead of the 360 to outweigh the US-minus-Japan figures.

If you are someone who claims this the burden of proof is on your side, and without supporting evidence the default setting for a statement is false.

Nintendo released some information about Europe through Q3 of 2007. Thread by gahiggidy has most of the graphs and the link to the nintendo press page it came from.

 

[Gaborn]

I think 2007 was Nintendo's make or break year (they made). I think 2008 is Sony's '2nd or 3rd Place?' year. Not that Sony has to catch all the way up to Microsoft, but if they don't make a significant dent in the gap or if they get outsold by the 360 it well and truly should be over.

 

[biggersmaller]

Yeah, I read that comment and my eyes rolled so hard I strained them both.

You know what the Media Center is for 99% of people? The PC. That isn't going to change anytime soon, and that's just one of the many reasons I think Microsoft's blown money on the Xbox project would've been better spent on the PC as a games platform/all-in-one media center. Instead we're stuck with Vista.

Sony needs to focus PS3 on exclusive games that are outside of the 360's SHOOTER#5,691 market. Instead of making another Resistance or another Uncharted, find something just as big but with less gunplay. LittleBigPlanet starring Sackboy is not this game.

What the hell do you want, then? LBP is the polar opposite of the "360's SHOOTER#5,691 market" and Uncharted is exactly what I would call "big but with less gunplay."

What about Final Fantasy? That's big and doesn't have guns. Does this not satisfy you?

 

[Dave Long]

What the hell do you want, then? LBP is the polar opposite of the "360's SHOOTER#5,691 market" and Uncharted is exactly what I would call "big but with less gunplay."

What about Final Fantasy? That's big and doesn't have guns. Does this not satisfy you?

Final Fantasy is going to appeal to the same people every other Final Fantasy game appealed to. It just doesn't have system selling ability.

Same goes for LittleBigPlanet. It's too quirky. Too British. And I'm not convinced that letting gamers make the levels will be all that appealing to anyone outside of...well... gamers. We all tend to make things too complicated and too niche for people outside our little clique to understand.

I don't know what it is that Sony needs exactly, but the things they have aren't going to help.

 

[truly101]

PS3: turning the corner since 2006.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Sony needs more games. The problem with the N64 and GameCube and XBOX and to an extent the 360 and now the PS3 is that you could name the anticipated titles on one hand, and those titles all shot for the same audience. There's a reason that people laugh when people list off "Uncharted! Ratchet! Killzone! LBP! MGS4!" etc all the time. Where are the games for people that like Uncharted but want something more? Where do people who latch onto LBP go afterward? Is the game going to keep them indefinitely?

Why would a person stay with Resistance indefinitely when there are a slew of like minded titles and a community to support them on another system? I waited 2 years for MGS! Now what?

Sony needs to bolster the lineup. Promotion of a slim roster ain't gonna cut it, enabling PSN up to the level of Live ain't gonna do anything long term, backwards compatibility isn't going to bring the masses in droves unless the PS3 comes with title after title after title and never lets up. It's really quite simple.

 

[snorggy]

Final Fantasy is going to appeal to the same people every other Final Fantasy game appealed to. It just doesn't have system selling ability.

so all the final fantasy fans have a ps3 already?

 

[painful fart]

1) The 360's hardware sales were severely constrained by shortages for several months. The same cannot be said of the PS3.

2) The 360's hardware sales during that period were nothing impressive. They were lauded (rightfully so) for the impressive software sales during the period.

3) The PS2 had a staggered launch, which meant that for a large part of the first year it was selling only in Japan. Which makes the comparison moot.

4) VG CHARTZ LOL

Hey, do you know what, the PS3 hasn´t been out one year yet in PAL county, there are still a few months to go.

How come you missed that significant piece of information when you bothered to make that list?

 

[Spike]

Way to have poor reading comprehension. What part of "largely" do you not understand?

Home and LBP? Home? It's not even a game. As much as the Sony faithful want to tout these two "titles" as system movers, they are deluding themselves as to how much an impact they are going to make. Home is an interface, not a game. A normal person will not buy a PS3 because of Home.

And yes, I would say Resistance and MotorStorm are established, given that they've done decently and are sequels. GTA4 and DMC4 are on the 360; do they not count as adding to the platform's lineup?

Resistance sold because it was the best launch title available. If it had come out this fall, it wouldn't be as big as it was. MotorStorm? I guess you can call it established since it's being packed in with every 80GB system. Still doesn't mean that the title alone is an "established" seller.

GTA4 and DMC4 are on the 360, yes. And yes, they do add to that systems lineup. But when looking at exclusives, these should not be included. I mean, you need to look at it like if you buy the system, what has more appeal: Halo 3 or MGS4? We deal with platform exclusives instead of multiplatform titles, since they can be purchased for either system.

Sony and Kojima already confirmed MGS4 would be PS3 exclusive. They made a pretty big deal about it at E3. Whether that's a timed exclusive, or completely exclusive is largely irrelevant. For now, it's only coming out on the PS3, and it's not going to come out for the 360 next year if it is, indeed, a timed exclusive. At that point, the significance of the title being an exclusive will have done its damage -- sold PS3s -- so your reluctance to accept it as a PS3 exclusive title of importance is quite funny.

Who said anything about MGS4 not being a title of importance? That is the quintessential title for this year on the PS3. But, since you did point out how the timed exclusive bit is a very important feature, would you agree that the extra episodes on GTA4 for 360 will damage sales for the PS3 and that version?

 

[AranhaHunter]

Yep

 

[Brannon]

Maybe if they reduce the price of regular 3rd party games to $50...

...

I can dream.

 

[JCBossman]

All you can eat buffets have convinced me "It's all about the price" Some of the crap food I've seen served at them, and people happily scarfing that shit down, PROVES to me you can sell ANYTHING, if the price is right.

 

[painful fart]

GTA4 and DMC4 are on the 360, yes. And yes, they do add to that systems lineup. But when looking at exclusives, these should not be included. I mean, you need to look at it like if you buy the system, what has more appeal: Halo 3 or MGS4? We deal with platform exclusives instead of multiplatform titles, since they can be purchased for either system.

If you own a PS2 and you loved to play GTA on it and you are starting to get a hard from the GTA4 screens, don´t you think GTA4 could be a system seller for the PS3?

 

[Spike]

If you own a PS2 and you loved to play GTA on it and you are starting to get a hard from the GTA4 screens, don´t you think GTA4 could be a system seller for the PS3?

If you own a PS2 and you loved to play GTA on it and you are starting to get a hard from the GTA4 screens, and you found out that the 360 version is going to have exclusive episodic content, don´t you think GTA4 could be a system seller for the 360?

There are alot of people who are waiting for GTA4 to upgrade to the next gen consoles. If they find out about exclusive episodes for the 360, do you think that they wouldn't be swayed in that direction, or do you think they will blindly just buy a PS3?

This is what it all comes down to this year, unfortunately.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

If you own a PS2 and you loved to play GTA on it and you are starting to get a hard from the GTA4 screens, don´t you think GTA4 could be a system seller for the PS3?

Why not get a 360 instead? It has GTA PLUS a whole slew of games to get once your finished.

Your example takes into account that this person is a blind fanboy who only looks at the name "Playstation". Sales of the console should prove that this is obvious not such a foregone conclusion.

 

[HK-47]

You are the kidding?

This is what I mean. Sony coming in 99th place wouldn't matter because just like Nintendo, the brand is very strong and there is a lot of money that can be made off it. One canyon in the road doesn't mean you can't grapple to the other side eventually.

Nintendo was crying in the N64+GC era. And now they're kicking ass like nobodies business. Change is a part of nature, it is wired in our core and our societies reflect that. Especially in this business? You can lose overnight.

Nintendo wasnt crying, even discounting the Game Boy and Pokemon

 

[Amir0x]

2007 was its make-or-break year; it broke.

Sony fans now should accept this and just cuddle around the multiplatform games they're getting as a result of 360's fans infinite generosity, leading to a mildly-sustainable next-gen business model for the upper tier.

 

[painful fart]

If you own a PS2 and you loved to play GTA on it and you are starting to get a hard from the GTA4 screens, and you found out that the 360 version is going to have exclusive episodic content, don´t you think GTA4 could be a system seller for the 360?

Could be, but the PS3 one can have some exclusive content as well. It will be really interesting to see how it will marketed by Microsoft and Sony.

 

[Miniboss1232]

Personally, I think they're already broke. I don't see any crazy upswings occurring in the future, and traditionally, consoles don't just all of a sudden start selling. As far as I can tell, it's very hard to stop a console's momentum once it's going. You basically only get a fresh start when you release a new console.

It might be more apt to say that this is the "make or break" year for third parties on the PS3. If MGS4 bombs, then that's it for third parties supporting the PS3 in any meaningful manner. There will be only 360 ports and first party games to look forward to at that point. Final Fantasy will still come, but by then (2009, at least) it'll be too late.

Now, is this it for Sony as a gaming company? Doubtful. I just hope they pull themselves out of the hole quicker than Nintendo did on their next console.

 

[painful fart]

Why not get a 360 instead? It has GTA PLUS a whole slew of games to get once your finished.

Your example takes into account that this person is a blind fanboy who only looks at the name "Playstation". Sales of the console should prove that this is obvious not such a foregone conclusion.

Well there are a lot of fanboys here that love certain franchises, why shouldn´t that be taken into account?

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Well there are a lot of fanboys here that love certain franchises, why shouldn´t that be taken into account?

Because fanboys don't win console wars.

If the tide of a console war were reliant on them, Nintendo would never have lost their grip on the market to begin with.

 

[tehbear]

2007 was its make-or-break year; it broke.

Sony fans now should accept this and just cuddle around the multiplatform games they're getting as a result of 360's fans infinite generosity, leading to a mildly-sustainable next-gen business model for the upper tier.

360 fans aren't that generous. Look at how shitty most of the ports are. I am glad fanboys somehow get PS3 games made though.

 

[MetatronM]

2007 was "make or break" and I think they is broke.

No it wasn't. 2007 was effectively its first year on the market. While that is an extremely important period of time to be sure, it's not necessarily the year that will ultimately set the course for the rest of the generation.

It's as simple as this: Sony is not so far behind globally right this second that they couldn't get back into the game with a strong year and a very strong holiday THIS year. However, if the status quo does not change and 2008 turns out roughly the way 2007 did, then they will then probably be too far behind to catch up in this generation. That's what makes it a "make or break" year for them. They have not lost this gen outright yet, but they CAN lose it before the year is out if they don't have a big turn around.

Take, as an example, the original Playstation. It was released in the US in 1995, but its breakout year was not 1996. It was 1997, its second full year on the market, and it was driven by software. If the PS3's major titles can avoid further delays, 2008 looks very bright at least in terms of software quality for the system. Basically all of Sony's heavy hitters are expected to be due in the next year or so, and if they can't do the job then, well, nothing can. I'm not saying this is what will happen by any means, but it is a precedent, and it is surely what Sony is hoping for.

Do I think Sony will make their miracle comeback this year? Eh...not exactly. I DO think 2008 will be much better to them than 2007 was, and I think they could be in a position to do very well in holiday '08, but there are a lot of X factors, a lot of titles with dubious release prospects, and, frankly, both Microsoft and Nintendo have a lot of cards for this year that they haven't tipped as off to (either that or they're both planning to have a year relatively weak and limited in exclusives, which I don't believe is the case).

But I do think we will know who "wins" this gen once January 2009 rolls around.

 

[Ranger X]

I know one thing for sure. If they want to secure a second place worldwide, they need to reach the 360's beat before the end of the year if ever they want to reach 360 total sales during 2009.
The more this is waiting to happen, the harder it will be for the PS3 "to pull a SNES" on the 360.

 

[Amir0x]

Metatron, we know who won this gen. It's Wii. Scratch that, it's DS. Of course, here I use "this gen" in the liberal sense to mean merely the next iteration of a companies hardware, not in the realistic sense of meaning "capable hardware that can deliver ambitious projects" which would exclude both platforms.

 

[painful fart]

Because fanboys don't win console wars.

If the tide of a console war were reliant on them, Nintendo would never have lost their grip on the market to begin with.

Yeah, you are right. What if GTA lost it attraction, those guys may have moved on to Wii Sports full time.

 

[Miniboss1232]

Metatron, we know who won this gen. It's Wii. Scratch that, it's DS. Of course, here I use "this gen" in the liberal sense to mean merely the next iteration of a companies hardware, not in the realistic sense of meaning "capable hardware that can deliver ambitious projects" which would exclude both platforms.

Ambitious in what sense?

 

[HK-47]

Well there are a lot of fanboys here that love certain franchises, why shouldn´t that be taken into account?

That isnt the consumer that made GTA a huge franchise...those people would be more wooed by the 360 since its cheaper.

 

[HK-47]

Metatron, we know who won this gen. It's Wii. Scratch that, it's DS. Of course, here I use "this gen" in the liberal sense to mean merely the next iteration of a companies hardware, not in the realistic sense of meaning "capable hardware that can deliver ambitious projects" which would exclude both platforms.

The former is the actual definition.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

Ambitious in what sense?

Doing things with graphics and environments that couldn't be done before. Like it matters when talking about sales.

Funnily enough, his first definition of generation was correct while his "in the realistic sense" definition wasn't.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

2007 was its make-or-break year; it broke.

Sony fans now should accept this and just cuddle around the multiplatform games they're getting as a result of 360's fans infinite generosity, leading to a mildly-sustainable next-gen business model for the upper tier.

Accept it?

I'm kinda of sick of hearing doofs at work constantly telling me whatever they heard last night in their headphones while playing Call of Duty 4 online over PSN.

Seriously, predictions of "2008 will be the year of the playstation" and ultra persuasive arguments of "playstations better. it has better graphics than crap-60" or "the Wii is kiddie" are just retarded. I don't mind other people liking something else and trying to persuade me to see things their way, but I wish they would do so intelligently.

And of course they just learned the word fanboy a few weeks ago and have been trying it out recently.

Suddenly I'm "stupid" becuase I think Halo 3 and Gears of War are good games. Bunch of 20'ish males acting like 5 yr olds.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Accept it?

I'm kinda of sick of hearing doofs at work constantly telling me whatever they heard last night in their headphones while playing Call of Duty 4 online over PSN.

Seriously, predictions of "2008 will be the year of the playstation" and ultra persuasive arguments of "playstations better. it has better graphics than crap-60" or "the Wii is kiddie" are just retarded. I don't mind other people liking something else and trying to persuade me to see things their way, but I wish they would do so intelligently.

And of course they just learned the word fanboy a few weeks ago and have been trying it out recently.

Suddenly I'm "stupid" becuase I think Halo 3 and Gears of War are good games. Bunch of 20'ish males acting like 5 yr olds.

You should encourage them. Get them talking.

...Then post their words of wisdom on GAF.

 

[Lobster]

If Ps3 fails atleast PSP will make up for some of the loss. We must remember that PSP is the best selling handheld to go against a Nintendo handheld. Its succesfully penetrated the handheld market

 

[KingJ2002]

Well, I'm definitely enjoying this thread. Lots of mini-meltdowns. Anyway, a couple points:

The first year is always the "make or break" year for a console. I can't think of any example where a console sold either really well or really poorly the first year, then suddenly had its fortunes reversed the next. The best example I can think of is the DS, but that was because of software that opened it up to a whole new market, which leads me to point 2:


None of these games will do anything more than a temporary bump in sales. That's just how sequels work. It's the same reason a new Mario or Zelda doesn't push Nintendo's hardware anymore. It's the games that come out of nowhere that are the real system sellers. Stuff like GTAIII, Halo, Brain Age, Wii Sports. Fresh software that draws new audiences in, that's what pushes hardware. Unless it's a sequel that completely redefines a franchise (FFVII, GTAIII), and even then, it doesn't always help (OoT, RE4). Also, you don't get to say KZ2 is a system seller before it's out, especially after you should have learned your lesson with the first game.


I think a lot of you need to give up on the dream that the PS3 is going to suddenly blast through the stratosphere and follow in the PS2's legacy. It's probably not going to happen. I know it's hard after getting used to being the undisputed champion for so long, but you have to let go.

i have a hunch that sony has some surprises in store as far as bringing a new gaming experience goes.

while these sequels you're shrugging off are pretty big.

with killzone 2 being the biggest... this isnt a standard sequel being made here. what it's turning out to look like is a street fighter 1 to street fighter 2 transition and the hype behind this game is just graphics alone... if the gameplay lives up to the hype... i expect big numbers.

final fantasy always comes big out of the gate... same wth metal gear solid... and gran turismo so those are no brainers when it comes to being apart of the greatest hits catalog

only game that will provide a temporary "bump" is tekken 6... fans worldwide will pick up the game producing a 1 to 2 month bump in sales... but the previous games stated will provide the ps3 a steady stream of sales.

...

but even then... i dont think this will help the ps3 pull ahead of anyone... an improved PSN experience, home, and the revitalization of the playstation brand will help... i honestly feel the blu-ray push killed the ps3 true potential.

 

[painful fart]

That isnt the consumer that made GTA a huge franchise...those people would be more wooed by the 360 since its cheaper.

Yes, you are right, still there may be a few happy PS2 owners waiting for the price to be right for some $399 may be it. For some the price difference will be a deal-breaker.

Anyways I am willing to bet an arbitrary sum of money that the PS3 sales numbers will rise when GTA4 is released. Anyone taking that bet?

 

[Guy LeDouche]

Same goes for LittleBigPlanet. It's too quirky. Too British. And I'm not convinced that letting gamers make the levels will be all that appealing to anyone outside of...well... gamers.

Hmm... gamers... make games? Any other pearls of insight you can offer us?

Who else is going to make games? The fucking pope? Bob Barker? LBP will be great. The retail version (with the best of the best of the user-created stuff, plus more stuff from professional devs) will be AAA.

 

[namor7]

if Sony has a repeat of 07(exlusives bombing,FF delayed till 09, distant 3rd in console sales) is the Sony gaming division in trouble?

yes

Could a bad 08 turn the Playstation name into the next Dreamcast?

no

or does the Playstation name carry enough weight to make it into another generation?

yes