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Is a geisha costume racist?

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Xyrmellon

Xyrmellon

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Had an acquaintance/customer come into work tonight wearing it. Pasty white makeup smeared all over her face. Even as a white male it made me a little uncomfortable. The girl is African-American, so I even felt she should be more sensitive to this issue (is that wrong for me to even think that?).

I feel like I'm not always sure what's acceptable these days, but I wasn't the only one who brought it up, so I pose the question to you, gaf.
 
As long as she wasn't trying to fake actual ethnic features, I would think the costume is okay...
 
No, sometimes I feel that peole nowdays are too over sensitive now if she is wearing a traditional costume/dress from another country while talking shit about said country then yeahthat is racist
 
I dunno. A geisha costume might be offensive if you belonged to a race that had a history of mocking and/or being shitty to Japanese people systematically, but I don't think there is a context for an african american women to really hurt a japanese persons feelings by dressing like a geisha.

As far as cultural appropriation goes... I'm not smart enough to parse all of that. I can often see it as kinda tacky or embarrassing, but the line where cultural appropriation isn't racist but is offensive is above my pay grade. Like... Can I dress like a mummy without hurting anyone's feelings? I dunno, so I just don't.
 
i don't have an issue with this as an asian. i think a lot of criticism with "____face" stems from historical insensitivities, and as far as i know, blacks haven't historically degraded asian culture.
 
Would it be racist if some one wore kabuki make-up for halloween? I say nay....unless she was doing a racist accent.

kabuki__theatrical_makeup_by_wolveskin-d3h6uol.jpg
 
No, but I bet you some white liberal will decide it is, and make a "this is not okay" blog post on upworthy.
 
Xyrmellon said:
Had an acquaintance/customer come into work tonight wearing it. Pasty white makeup smeared all over her face. Even as a white male it made me a little uncomfortable. The girl is African-American, so I even felt she should be more sensitive to this issue (is that wrong for me to even think that?).

I feel like I'm not always sure what's acceptable these days, but I wasn't the only one who brought it up, so I pose the question to you, gaf.
Click to expand...

Actual geishas whiten their faces too. The geisha workshop here (Kyoto) didn't seem to have a problem with black participants, so
 
There was that story floating around recently about how "racist" it was that Gwen Stefani had Japanese backup dancers in schoolgirl costumes.

I want to see a video of Americans explaining to Japanese why it's racist and why they should be offended. I guarantee you most of them wouldn't understand.
 
Nudull said:
It's cutural appropiation, which in and of itself is potentially racist.
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Cultural Appropriation is incorporating elements of another culture into your own, going as something for Halloween that is inspired by another culture is hardly appropriating it into your own.
 
No. Geishas whiten their face too as well as other aristocratic ladies back then, stop being so uptight and quick to jump on the racism gun.

Also
post-25196-BRB-using-imagination-since-no-B9lT.gif
 
BocoDragon said:
There was that story floating around recently about how "racist" it was that Gwen Stefani had Japanese backup dancers in schoolgirl costumes.

I want to see a video of Americans explaining to Japanese why it's racist and why they should be offended. I guarantee you most of them wouldn't understand.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that was Avril Lavigne's "Hello Kitty" music video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiaYDPRedWQ

EDIT: This whole conversation is interesting, because if we're being honest, I really dunno if GAF is gonna be impartial to questions about approptiating Japanese culture. I imagine half the people reading this are dressed as a gundam right now.
 
Nudull said:
It's cutural appropiation, which in and of itself is potentially racist (and is often insensitive, at best).
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yeah, potentially racist, but don't you make allowances for halloween, provided it isn't explicitly offensive? besides, it's not like she's going around as a geisha the other 364 days of the year.
 
Grimløck;136713298 said:
yeah, potentially racist, but don't you make allowances for halloween, provided it isn't explicitly offensive? besides, it's not like she's going around as a geisha the other 364 days of the year.
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I had the same intial impulse, but I don't know how you excuse Halloween and not the guy wearing a headress to "the big game" once a year.
 
Aaron-Lagann said:
Cultural Appropriation is incorporating elements of another culture into your own, going as something for Halloween that is inspired by another culture is hardly appropriating it into your own.
Click to expand...

It's a problem when you're taking elements from another culture that is sacred or personal to that culture and you end up treating it like a cheap accessory with no meaning, especially if you yourself do not understand it.
 
Quite a few people had issue with a white woman doing cosplay in which she used makeup to darken her skin. While I don't think it is racist because it doesn't fit into the definition of racist
believing one race is better/worse than another
someone will probably not be happy about it.
 
Nudull said:
It's a problem when you're taking elements from another culture that is sacred or personal to that culture and you end up treating it like a cheap accessory with no meaning, especially if you yourself do not understand it.
Click to expand...

It's a problem to be insensitive to other cultures and going for Halloween as something sacred would be offensive, but Cultural Appropriation it is not.
 
Nudull said:
It's cutural appropiation, which in and of itself is potentially racist (and is insensitive, at best).
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It looks like this is an accepted concern within liberal circles but...

It sounds kinda racist to me to say you can't take something from another culture. You don't have the right to adopt elements from another culture.... Why? Because you're so genetically dissimilar or something? Borrowing ideas from each other is what humans do.

It sounds to me like this concept came from white people taking elements of black and native cultures while they remain in a state of lesser power. They got mad that their ideas were being taken while they benefitted nothing, so it was developed into an academic theory. But if you really applied fears of cultural appropriation to every single instance of one culture borrowing from another, things would get incredibly silly in this globalized world.
 
If she didn't add any exaggerated stereotypical racial features like doing the "asian eyes" or try to speak with a japanese accent, I guess it's OK for haloween.
 
Aaron-Lagann said:
It's a problem to be insensitive to other cultures and going for Halloween as something sacred would be offensive, but Cultural Appropriation it is not.
Click to expand...

That's kind of the definition of cultural appropriation, though. A dominant culture taking advantage of another's, especially the smaller and more oppressed groups.
 
entrement said:
Ask a native Japanese. They're the only ones that can answer that question sincerely.
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I watched My Geisha with my ex girlfriend who was Japanese. While that's an old movie with definite old timey orientalism... But the actual act of a white person dressing like a geisha is, if anything, "kawaii".

Let's ask the Americans in here: would you honestly be offended if anyone in the world dressed like a cowboy?
 
Staccat0 said:
I had the same intial impulse, but I don't know how you excuse Halloween and not the guy wearing a headress to "the big game" once a year.
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is he a white man? because of historical contexts there are situations which are looked at differently. a white man wearing an indian headdress has a different socio-cultural implication than a black lady wearing a geisha get up during halloween, more so since halloween is celebrated by being in costume.
 
Nudull said:
That's kind of the definition of cultural appropriation, though. A dominant culture taking advantage of another's, especially the smaller and more oppressed groups.
Click to expand...

No, the definition is adopting another culture into your own, being insensitive isn't appropriation. Don't get me wrong, being insensitive isn't okay, and cultural appropriation is insensitive, but something being insensitive does not automatically make something cultural appropriation.

RatskyWatsky said:
What's it gonna take to get the other 50%?
Click to expand...

Having to ask that just took you down to 25%.
 
Nudull said:
That's kind of the definition of cultural appropriation, though. A dominant culture taking advantage of another's, especially the smaller and more oppressed groups.
Click to expand...
Well Japan ain't small or oppressed, so case closed here.

I can see being careful about black, native or perhaps Mexican symbols in America, though.
 
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