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[Kinyou]

The dismissal of how a certain culture feels about others using their culture could be.

Only if the reason for that dismissal is a racist one, but then that doesn't have much to do with the costume itself.

 

[MaschinenZimmer]

Cultures are simply ideas and information, and ideas and information and meant to be shared.

Current state of patent laws says otherwise.

Didn't John Carmack had to change part of the lighting in Doom 3 BFG Edition because there was a patent for a formula he used in the code? Patenting mathematical formulas is probably the most insane shit ever.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Only if the reason for that dismissal is a racist one, but then that doesn't have much to do with the costume itself.

I agree. I was responding to the post I quoted initially, not the thread itself.

 

[Pyramid head]

Just play it safe. If she want's to wear just a kimono and shoes (maybe hair as well), it's fine.

Most anything past that is too much.

No white make-up.

No eye augmentation.

No accent.

Think of it like if you want to go as a specific basketball player that happens to be black.

You wear the full uniform with basketball shoes and carry a basketball with you.

No black face.

No trying to sound "black".

You are aware that unlike a black basketball player's black skin, the white on a geisha's face is just makeup, and not their skin colour right?

 

[Mighty Chin]

to play it safe, stay clear from ''ethnic'' costumes that you have no links to.

What a sad world you live in.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

What a sad world you live in.

Why be like this?

 

[stilgar]

What a sad world you live in.

I agree completely. At this point it's just pure bigotry.

 

[PjotrStroganov]

Funny thing is that we need people from Japan to tell us if it's racist or not.

 

[HK-47]

Just play it safe. If she want's to wear just a kimono and shoes (maybe hair as well), it's fine.

Most anything past that is too much.

No white make-up.

No eye augmentation.

No accent.

Think of it like if you want to go as a specific basketball player that happens to be black.

You wear the full uniform with basketball shoes and carry a basketball with you.

No black face.

No trying to sound "black".

These parallels...they are bad. You should rethink them.

 

[Enkidu]

to play it safe, stay clear from ''ethnic'' costumes that you have no links to.

As I asked earlier in this thread, where do you draw the line? Is Marvel's Thor acceptable, or a disgusting display of cultural appropriation? Is it ok to dress up as Hercules or a Roman soldier for Halloween?

 

[BocoDragon]

As I asked earlier in this thread, where do you draw the line? Is Marvel's Thor acceptable, or a disgusting display of cultural appropriation? Is it ok to dress up as Hercules or a Roman soldier for Halloween?

If you think about it, witches and mummies are really racist portrayals of wiccans and Egyptians.

 

[Zoe]

These parallels...they are bad. You should rethink them.

I just noticed the hair part. "Maybe" the hair? What.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Is it black face if disguise myself as an exact 100% believable Raekwon? Or is it only blackface if the makeup is cheap?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I wouldn't do it, and I wouldn't cosign on one of my other friends doing it, but it's leagues different than the Michonne cosplay. And even with that, I probably would have given that one the pass if she wouldn't have done that stupid shit with her nose.

I fucking knew there would be people tripping all over themselves to make this comparison when I left work last night, and I was not disappointed by the results. Jesus, guys. It's not the same thing.

 

[Dram]

Is it black face if disguise myself as an exact 100% believable Raekwon? Or is it only blackface if the makeup is cheap?

Just tell everyone you're a cosplayer and you're wearing blackface to show how much you respect him.

 

[Tangeroo]

The costume in and of itself is not racist. Where it becomes problematic is when people start throwing down the exaggerated accents and mannerisms with it. I've been to plenty of costume parties where people throw out terrible ethnic accents and it's always cringeworthy (not just specific to Asians). In my experience, when people dress up like this, most of them throw in the accents with it. I've heard several "Me love you long time" from people (both men and women) in geisha costumes and there are multiple problems with it.

 

[Feep]

Current state of patent laws says otherwise.

Didn't John Carmack had to change part of the lighting in Doom 3 BFG Edition because there was a patent for a formula he used in the code? Patenting mathematical formulas is probably the most insane shit ever.

Go patent culture, and we'll talk, then.

 

[radios shipping overview]

The costume in and of itself is not racist. Where it becomes problematic is when people start throwing down the exaggerated accents and mannerisms with it. I've been to plenty of costume parties where people throw out terrible ethnic accents and it's always cringeworthy (not just specific to Asians). In my experience, when people dress up like this, most of them throw in the accents with it. I've heard several "Me love you long time" from people (both men and women) in geisha costumes and there are multiple problems with it.

Yeah, this. When you use something from another culture, you have to consider what you're taking and whether you are cheapening it, devaluing it, or using it to create stereotypes. It becomes much more important if you're taking from a culture that is oppressed. Japan isn't an oppressed country, but dressing like a geisha and then acting like a stereotypical Asian prostitute cheapens the culture, the profession, and the lives of sex workers (an oppressed class). So would giving yourself a name like "Fook Mi" and using an exaggerated accent.

So, it's fine, but be sensitive about how you carry it off. Geishas entertain their customers with elevated conversation and traditional music peformance, so be dignified.

 

[plasmawave]

If it's respectful than it isn't racist. But often, those costumes aren't respective in the least.

This is racist:



I don't think many people would consider this racist:

Why is the frist one racist? Are you trying to take away my sexy geishas?

 

[JABEE]

It's a problem when you're taking elements from another culture that is sacred or personal to that culture and you end up treating it like a cheap accessory with no meaning, especially if you yourself do not understand it.

Like St. Patrick's Day?

 

[Zoe]

Why is the frist one racist? Are you trying to take away my sexy geishas?

That isn't even a geisha, just "sexy kimono."

Now if it were called geisha, that's a different story.

 

[Renzoku]

I think intent determines racism in all things, but that's just me.

 

[dem]

smh at all the "racism"

I dressed my son up as a viking this year. Apparently im appropriating someones culture.


There are no words

 

[TCRS]

lol no.

 

[ppor]

I don't think we should automatically assume everything is offensive until we got signoff from the "othered" group. It almost absolves white people from making hard decisions about race and using common sense for themselves. At the same time, the whole debate excludes Asian-Americans voices and opinions, because somehow white society need to get on a plane to Japan and hear the Prime Minister's "purebred" stance instead.

Since I'm not qualified to speak for the Japanese, I'll just say a white person dressing up in a Chinese qipao would be considered classy and not cultural appropriation. But feel free to teach me that this is actually Orientialism.

BTW, I'm only half serious above. I've taken Ethnic Studies and read about Chinoiserie, etc (but not an expert!). It's just weird when a white girl needs to worry about cosplaying as Chun Li, when this cultural exchange should really be about bringing people together.

 

[radios shipping overview]

smh at all the "racism"

I dressed my son up as a viking this year. Apparently im appropriating someones culture.


There are no words

Vikings were an oppressive culture, and you're probably descended from a culture that was oppressed by them. Also, they stopped existing hundreds of years ago. You're fine.

 

[not psycho]

This is racist:

That looks like a Mai Shiranui costume.

 

[hirokazu]

Since I'm not qualified to speak for the Japanese, I'll just say a white person dressing up in a Chinese qipao would be considered classy and not cultural appropriation. But feel free to teach me that this is actually Orientialism.

I don't see it as racist (though that can depend on the context of each situation), but just because they wear it doesn't mean it looks good on them. Same goes for kimono or yukata. There's almost always something off when a white person wears it.

 

[dem]

I don't see it as racist (though that can depend on the context of each situation), but just because they wear it doesn't mean it looks good on them. Same goes for kimono or yukata. There's almost always something off when a white person wears it.

im rolling
this cant be real life

 

[ppor]

im rolling
this cant be real life

Asuka's Evangelion outfit only looks good on half-German half-Japanese cosplayers

 

[AlexBasch]

Whoa whoa, hold on.

People thought that the makeup was 'whiteface' or something?

Oh my fucking god. If you're gonna tumblr-rage at least know what the hell you're angry about.

Next up someone will think that kabuki is 'white face' with "Mike Tyson tattoo's" or something.

my sexy geishas

You objectifying sexist piece of trash

Spoiler

I'm joking.
China dresses are better anyway.

Guys, is it racist for Japanese people to dress up as Juggalos?

Oh hell, your example is miles better, I lost my shit so bad.

 

[ppor]

Whoa whoa, hold on.

People thought that the makeup was 'whiteface' or something?

Oh my fucking god. If you're gonna tumblr-rage at least know what the hell you're angry about.

Next up someone will think that kabuki is 'white face' with "Mike Tyson tattoo's" or something.

Seriously, this whole thread is an embarrassment.

Guys, is it racist for Japanese people to dress up as Juggalos?

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Seriously, this whole thread is an embarrassment.

Guys, is it racist for Japanese people to dress up as Juggalos?

This could be the best thing I've read this week.

 

[Northeastmonk]

geisha to some means the same as a prostitute.

Do Americans get offended when people dress as prostitutes? I think that's universal. As long as you have adult themes I don't think it matters.

 

[Nephtis]

totally failed when linking my examples of why the person in the OP was doing it right (re: white makeup), so I'm just going to post it here:

Hot damn, they look amazing.

 

[Irminsul]

I dressed my son up as a viking this year. Apparently im appropriating someones culture.

I sure hope you didn't let him wear a helmet with horns. Now that would be offensive.

 

[SenorArdilla]

totally failed when linking my examples of why the person in the OP was doing it right (re: white makeup), so I'm just going to post it here:



Hot damn, they look amazing.

That make-up is really thick. Wow.

I sure hope you didn't let him wear a helmet with horns. Now that would be offensive.

And no dragons.

 

[IDKAboutThat]

What? No. Clearly you don't understand the concept of geisha.

 

[Nephtis]

That make-up is really thick. Wow.



And no dragons.

It's supposed to be. The ironic thing in all this ( I guess we could call it that) is that one of the possible theories of the origins of the makeup is that in the Middle ages a traveler returned from Europe with stories of “pale-faced” beauties.

So essentially, the Japanese were 'whitefacing'.

There are other theories though, that the makeup actually was introduced to the Japanese by the Chinese, and they made it their own. The interesting bit of this is that whether they were whitefacing or not, they came up with a ranking system.

Junior maiko
• faces painted white leaving bare skin around hairline
• cheek/eye areas a noticeable cherry blossom pink
• eyes outlined in deep crimson and black
• eyebrows defined with red/pink under the black
• noticeable element - small proportion of her lower lip is painted in crimson.

Senior maiko
•faces painted white leaving bare skin around hairline
• cheek/eye areas a subtle cherry blossom pink
• eyes outlined in deep crimson and black
• eyebrows defined with red/pink under the black
• lips partually painted in crimson.

Junior Geisha/Performance Geisha
• faces painted white with the most subtle hint of pink for contouring
• subtle outlining of crimson and black around eyes
• eyebrows faintly defined with red/pink under the black
• lips painted almost in full with crimson.

Senior Geisha
• subdued make-up of choice - generally of a natural colour or base.

 

[Xyrmellon]

totally failed when linking my examples of why the person in the OP was doing it right (re: white makeup), so I'm just going to post it .

But if you read my later post understand this is not how it looked. At all.

 

[CadetMahoney]

I've heard several "Me love you long time" from people.

Yea, that's pretty cringeworthy.

 

[Nephtis]

But if you read my later post understand this is not how it looked. At all.

Link? I may have missed it.

 

[Fnord]

It's cutural appropiation, which in and of itself is potentially racist (and is insensitive, at best).

Just an exploration of this entire concept... The Japanese dudes that dress in 50s, American style getups - leather jackets, greased up hair, etc... - is that also offensive? Am I supposed to be, as a white American male, offended by this? I'm just curious as to where the line is on "cultural appropriation" and why it's supposed to be offensive.

 

[Ploid 3.0]

Would it be racist if some one wore kabuki make-up for halloween? I say nay....unless she was doing a racist accent.

That's a pretty boss face painting.

 

[Xyrmellon]

Link? I may have missed it.

Just think, why so serious?

 

[Fnord]

okay. take halloween and football games out of the equation. you're still missing the historical implications of a white man wearing an indian headdress. a black lady dressing up as a geisha might seem odd, and perhaps racist, but seeing a white man with a headdress leaves little doubt, even if it isn't intentional because there are historical implications attached to it.

Is this an across the board thing? Because when I was in the Order of the Arrow (a Boy Scout honor society, with a heavy nod to Native American traditions), I was on the Indian Dance Team. We dressed up in traditional Native American garb and danced traditional Native American dances (though not religious dances - those were forbidden). Was this racist? All, save a couple of us, were white.

 

[Bulbo Urethral Baggins]

Is this an across the board thing? Because when I was in the Order of the Arrow (a Boy Scout honor society, with a heavy nod to Native American traditions), I was on the Indian Dance Team. We dressed up in traditional Native American garb and danced traditional Native American dances (though not religious dances - those were forbidden). Was this racist? All, save a couple of us, were white.

The answer is yes. The good kind of racism though.

 

[HORRORSHØW]

Is this an across the board thing? Because when I was in the Order of the Arrow (a Boy Scout honor society, with a heavy nod to Native American traditions), I was on the Indian Dance Team. We dressed up in traditional Native American garb and danced traditional Native American dances (though not religious dances - those were forbidden). Was this racist? All, save a couple of us, were white.

comically so. little white kids dressed in indian headdresses and dancing with little to no understanding of its cultural significance no matter how much of it was taught. was it a gesture of reparation for systemically destroying native american culture? i'm obviously ignorant about what the "order of the arrow" is and what their aim is when dancing in native american dress, but for a lay observer like me, yeah, it's racist.

 

[Blair]

Just an exploration of this entire concept... The Japanese dudes that dress in 50s, American style getups - leather jackets, greased up hair, etc... - is that also offensive? Am I supposed to be, as a white American male, offended by this? I'm just curious as to where the line is on "cultural appropriation" and why it's supposed to be offensive.

Its just the latest nonsense buzz term. I'm english, do i give a shit if you dress as one of our monarchy? It's a huge part of our cultural history, but i would laugh if i saw a drunk henry VIII walking around a party eating legs of turkey.

 

[radios shipping overview]

Just an exploration of this entire concept... The Japanese dudes that dress in 50s, American style getups - leather jackets, greased up hair, etc... - is that also offensive? Am I supposed to be, as a white American male, offended by this? I'm just curious as to where the line is on "cultural appropriation" and why it's supposed to be offensive.

Not offensive. The greaser/rock n' roll culture that spawned the look is not oppressed and greasers and early rock n' roll stars have no special (i.e. religious) significance. It's just fashion.

People apply the term "cultural appropriation" overbroadly and without thinking. Just ask these questions when you're curious whether something is offensive appropriation:

- Is the culture being appropriated from oppressed? Especially by your own culture? Does it have a history of being so?
- Does the cultural item being appropriated have religious significance?
- Is the appropriation being used to stereotype or make fun of people of its culture? Does it rob the cultural item of its significance or meaning?

If one or more of those is true, it's probably offensive to do it.