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I usually think FFIX is the most underrated and disliked game of the series. Sad really, how could you not love Vivi and Steiner is beyond me.

When I look at FFIX and FFX I see they both star a main character that people hate. Zidane is hated image-wise, while Tidus is hated for a mountain of reasons on top of his image. Which I think is a great way to sum up how bad FFX is compared to FFIX. Zidane may look lame, but the game made up for that. Tidus just constantly reminds you of how bad his game is. But, of course the one with the voice-acting sold more.

 

[Redd]

Honestly though, and I know this is a minority opinion, I think FFIV-XI are all great games for their own reasons.

Christopher, if you want a Final Fantasy to play after X I highly suggest going with either VI, VII, IX, or even Chrono Trigger...which isn't a Final Fantasy at all but very similar to it. Those are all the titles I suggest to anyone interested in getting into FF. I'd normally suggest X, but alas, you're playing that now. FFIV remake comes out in 2 months. I'd suggest it, but I'm not sure how you feel about oldschool rpgs, which is why I'd suggest playing IX (which is oldschool in spirit) and VI (which is oldschool but still very modern in terms of story telling and character customization) first.



4. Final Fantasy IX - This is understandably one of the most hated on FF's next to FFVIII for a few reasons: 1. The final boss comes out of nowhere, 2. THe villian was mostly weaksauce and boring, 3. The battle system was sloooow 4. the characters felt like filler aside from a few. It's not my favorite, but it's still one of the best rpgs of the psx era. The light hearted take really appeals to me, and while the battle system is slow as fuck the AP and Weapon/Armor skill system is nothing but addicting. Also, Vivi is the best character in the series and Steiner is THE best damn comedy relief. Also, the game has the best side quests in the series bar none.

I think that when it comes to FF, people get too emotional and bogged down with what their favorites in the series are instead of appreciating what the current FF is doing right then and there. I think there's something to appreciate in all Final Fantasy's FFIV-XI completely.

Himuro if you were a god I would Worship you.

 

[MoogPaul]

Tidus is among your favorite FF main characters? I personally see Tidus as the worst. As far as depth in a character, Cecil is easily the best.

Spoiler

stabbed in the back constantly by his 'brother' Kain, betrayed by his 'King', Undying love for Rosa, the parenting aspects that come out when the twins and Rydia are around, he throws down his dark sword,

I can really go on and on about the depth of his character. Not that I think 4 is the best FF, it's up there, but Cecil is the best main character in the series IMO.

Tidus was most definitely a whiner or at the very least he came off that way to those of us who had the suffer through what could easily be the worst voice acting in a big budget title ever known to man.

I really can't say anything about Squall because after disc 1, the amount of bile that playing the game created in my body had risen through my brain causing me to pass out. The game basically relied on summon spells and the equipment system was a sin against the genre. Many people talk about how great the story was, but the rest of that game plotted against it.

 

[RiverBed]

Squall is the first emo kid in the world. plus, he is the only 'male' character that I think is the prettiest girl imaginable...

 

[IzumiK]

How can you lose interest in Final Fantasy when each iteration is practically different from each other... unless they are series releases within the number.

 

[AmMortal]

Yup.

I don't care about FFXIII/VS anymore, the good games have already started to role out. But will be all over it when the newest screen/video is released :lol

 

[rotaryspirit]

Himu makes a good post?! Very nice.

Blitzball was by far the best thing about FF X. That's a very good thing, by the way, since I played it more games that I have any other sports game ever.

 

[APZonerunner]

4. Final Fantasy IX - This is understandably one of the most hated on FF's next to FFVIII for a few reasons: 1. The final boss comes out of nowhere, 2. THe villian was mostly weaksauce and boring, 3. The battle system was sloooow 4. the characters felt like filler aside from a few. It's not my favorite, but it's still one of the best rpgs of the psx era. The light hearted take really appeals to me, and while the battle system is slow as fuck the AP and Weapon/Armor skill system is nothing but addicting. Also, Vivi is the best character in the series and Steiner is THE best damn comedy relief. Also, the game has the best side quests in the series bar none.

This is all pretty much true (despite 9 being my favorite in the series), but I find it strange you call Kuja a weak lead villain. I felt like the villainy was handled really well in 9. You spent all of disc 1 hating Brahne, then most of disc 2... then by the time you realise she's being manipulated, it's all too late, and Kuja has pulled a coup of epic proportions on a whole continent.

Okay, he dressed like a fag and had a weak spot in the middle of disc 3, but I felt he was a pretty cool bad guy. Love 9 very much though, so I'm kinda bias.

 

[BobsRevenge]

I always look forward to the next Final Fantasy. I never beat the games but I love trying to.

 

[RiverBed]

I'm so fucking tired of the word "emo".

lol. me too. that's the first I used it and only did it for a laugh.

about FF games; I just don't stand anything too 'fantasy' with animals and the likes. this is every games except 7,8,10 and 12 (11 is MMOs and I don't touch those).
that is why I am so excited about 13. it'll be the first game for me since 10 since 12 sucked.

I am sure Versus will be garbage like every single SE spin off in existence. but I'll at least watch it's fantastic CG work.

PS. I really don't care about gameplay and mechanis and what not. I only care about fantastic CG and music, story and graphics. if you give me those, I'll love your game to death. that is why FF10 is the best damn RPG for me out there. hope 13 can top it off, however doubtful it may be.

 

[beef3483]

As far as the genre is concerned, many games are trying to get beyond the grinding. Lost Odyssey for example does a good job of removing this from the game.

The easiest way to get rid of grinding is to get rid of turn-based battles.

That is the biggest thing holding the whole genre back IMO. I know there will be some die-hards that hate this very idea, but even they can't deny the steady decline of the Jrpg genre as a whole.

 

[Aeana]

The easiest way to get rid of grinding is to get rid of turn-based battles.

What on earth does grinding have to do with turn-based combat?

 

[DarkKyo]

No way. I love Final Fantasy and many other Square franchises. It's a good feeling when a new massive Square game is coming out.

 

[dog$]

The easiest way to get rid of grinding is to get rid of turn-based battles.

I did (at least) twice as much grinding in Tales of Symphonia than I did in Dragon Quest 8.

 

[Ganondorfo]

I could be wrong, but I think that the final fantasy franchise has the most sidequests for a jrpg.

I am losing interest in the final fantasy franchise, because normally we would be all playing final fantasy 13 now, I don't know what happened to snes-ps1 squaresoft, enix even makes more games than square.

It's 2008, and there is still no word about a sequel to vagrant story, chrono cross or parasite eve, what is happening to you square???

Snes had 3 main final fantasy games (4-6)
PS1 had 4 (ff7-9 + tactics)
PS2 had also 3 (ffx-ffx2-ff12)
I doubt that ps3 will get more than final fantasy 13 and versus...

 

[beef3483]

What on earth does grinding have to do with turn-based combat?

It is what puts the grind in grinding.

Please don't post in an rpg thread ever again.

Sorry, no.

I was once a very big fan of the genre so I feel I have a right to comment on it.

Edit: Actually, I have a right to comment, regardless.

 

[Pureauthor]

The easiest way to get rid of grinding is to get rid of turn-based battles.

That is the biggest thing holding the whole genre back IMO. I know there will be some die-hards that hate this very idea, but even they can't deny the steady decline of the Jrpg genre as a whole.

TWEWY is more grind heavy than any other jRPG this year thus far, and it's entirely action based.

Also, I ask you provide proof for this so called 'decline of the jRPG'. Do you mean in sales? Quality, perhaps?

It is what puts the grind in grinding.

Uh... so basically action based jRPGs don't have grinding, they have ing?

 

[Aeana]

It is what puts the grind in grinding.

Regardless of the combat system -- and whether or not you enjoy the combat -- grinding is grinding.

 

[beelzebozo]

i just found all the chocograph treasures and got the ragnarok for steiner, yyyyyyyyyeaaaaaah!

 

[Spirit Icana]

Yes, but I only played the ones on Nintendo consoles, except FF 5 and 6. I don't like any really except FFCC: RoF which was alright. My interest is very low now compared to the hype atmosphere that fooled me several times in the past, but I still would like to try the much acclaimed Final Fantasy 6. I like good stories and appealing character design...and good gameplay.

 

[Error]

The easiest way to get rid of grinding is to get rid of turn-based battles.

That is the biggest thing holding the whole genre back IMO. I know there will be some die-hards that hate this very idea, but even they can't deny the steady decline of the Jrpg genre as a whole.

I don't know where you are trying to get with this.

I'm open minded when it comes to battle engines in RPGs, I can enjoy a good real-time battle system as much as a turn based one. The fact that an rpg sports a turn based battle system that doesn't automatically means the whole experience is going to be a grindfest. Maybe you don't like turn based? Fine, I'm not going to argue that, but there's a large contingency of people that LOVE turn based battles (myself included), so you saying that turn based needs to disappear is, I dunno selfish? You don't have to play games with turn based battle systems, it's not like someone is forcing you to do so.

I think, it's stupid that something needs to disappear completely just because you don't enjoy it. There are plenty of other games, which I'm sure will be more enjoyable to you, it's not like every game in the world is turn based...

 

[beef3483]

Also, I ask you provide proof for this so called 'decline of the jRPG'. Do you mean in sales? Quality, perhaps?

Quality is subjective. Sales are not.

And sales for both the two biggest franchises in the genre (Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy) have been trending downwards ever since the boom of the PS1 era.

Maybe you could stop sucking at rpgs and won't have to grind?

You don't seem that knowledgeable.

Good show sir. If you don't have an argument, you can always try to discredit. Did I hit a nerve or something?

Uh... so basically action based jRPGs don't have grinding, they have ing?

It depends on whether or not whatever gameplay mechanic they have implemented becomes insanely repetitive.

 

[Pureauthor]

Quality is subjective. Sales are not.

And sales for both the two biggest franchises in the genre (Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy) have been trending downwards ever since the boom of the PS1 era.

You know, that's odd, since while games like Final Fantasy and DQ (both of which are largely turnbased affairs, though FFXII straddles the line a bit) are selling worse than their earlier iterations, the actual aRPGs generally sell like dog poop in comparison.

So if the jRPG genre is indeed declining, aRPGs aren't going to be the thing that fixes it.

 

[beef3483]

You know, that's odd, since while games like Final Fantasy and DQ (both of which are largely turnbased affairs, though FFXII straddles the line a bit) are selling worse than their earlier iterations, the actual aRPGs generally sell like dog poop in comparison.

So if the jRPG genre is indeed declining, aRPGs aren't going to be the thing that fixes it.

I never said Arpgs would fix anything. I think a much better alternative would be to go more towards the action/adventure route ala Zelda and Oblivian.

 

[Error]

I never said Arpgs would fix anything. I think a much better alternative would be to go more towards the action/adventure route ala Zelda and Oblivian.

Now you want to change the genre into something completely different? Awesome.

 

[Pureauthor]

I never said Arpgs would fix anything. I think a much better alternative would be to go more towards the action/adventure route ala Zelda and Oblivian.

These games have combat mechanics just as repetitive as any jRPG. (Never mind that they're from a completely different genre.)

 

[beef3483]

I don't know where you are trying to get with this.

I'm open minded when it comes to battle engines in RPGs, I can enjoy a good real-time battle system as much as a turn based one. The fact that an rpg sports a turn based battle system that doesn't automatically means the whole experience is going to be a grindfest. Maybe you don't like turn based? Fine, I'm not going to argue that, but there's a large contingency of people that LOVE turn based battles (myself included), so you saying that turn based needs to disappear is, I dunno selfish? You don't have to play games with turn based battle systems, it's not like someone is forcing you to do so.

I think, it's stupid that something needs to disappear completely just because you don't enjoy it. There are plenty of other games, which I'm sure will be more enjoyable to you, it's not like every game in the world is turn based...

I particularly don't enjoy turn-based battles and have put up with them for years only because of the genre's other redeeming aspects (atmosphere and exploration).

But my only point that wasn't subjective was that I don't think you large contingency is all that large, and I am pretty sure that it is shrinking.

 

[Error]

I particularly don't enjoy turn-based battles and have put up with them for years only because of the genre's other redeeming aspects (atmosphere and exploration).

But my only point that wasn't subjective was that I don't think you large contingency is all that large, and I am pretty sure that it is shrinking.

Oh, it's pretty large. Pokemon is the best selling rpg in the world, and guess what? It's turn based!

 

[Pureauthor]

Oh, it's pretty large. Pokemon is the best selling rpg in the world, and guess what? It's turn based!

The three best selling jRPG franchises in the world are all turn-based. :lol

 

[Redd]

Yes, but I only played the ones on Nintendo consoles, except FF 5 and 6. I don't like any really except FFCC: RoF which was alright. My interest is very low now compared to the hype atmosphere that fooled me several times in the past, but I still would like to try the much acclaimed Final Fantasy 6. I like good stories and appealing character design...and good gameplay.

Might I makes some recommendations. You should really play FF V, VI, VII, IX, X and if you have the time VIII and then play that imo godawful XII(i really tried to love this game). Also all rpg lovers should try Chrono Trigger because it's that damn good.

 

[beef3483]

These games have combat mechanics just as repetitive as any jRPG. (Never mind that they're from a completely different genre.)

Not really. There are certain enemies which you can just button mash to defeat, but you also have the enemies that you need to creatively disarm or maneuver against. Action Adventure games also have things like puzzle-solving mixed in to break up any monotony.

But the real issue with turn-based battles is that there isn't a direct connection between your input and the onscreen action. And the big focus on menu navigation is offputting to many.

 

[beef3483]

Oh, it's pretty large. Pokemon is the best selling rpg in the world, and guess what? It's turn based!

Pokemon is a genre all it's own. I don't think the traditional Pokemon player is the hardcore Jrpg freak that we're talking about here (though I'm sure there is some crossover). And even then Pokemon sales are still on a relative decline.

Beef the reason I did not give you any argument is because I think you are an idiot.

And yet you have failed to give any reason as to why you think so. Who is the idiot here?

 

[Aeana]

But the real issue with turn-based battles is that there isn't a direct connection between your input and the onscreen action. And the big focus on menu navigation is offputting to many.

I think you might be confusing turn-based and menu-driven, but it's understandable since the majority of turn-based combat is menu-driven. There's lots of games where it's not, though.

That said, your problem with turn-based/menu-driven combat is actually the reason why I prefer it.

 

[beef3483]

I think you might be confusing turn-based and menu-driven, but it's understandable since the majority of turn-based combat is menu-driven. There's lots of games where it's not, though.

That said, your problem with turn-based/menu-driven combat is actually the reason why I prefer it.

Well it was never my intent to demean the interests of others. Believe it or not, I got my Mom into Jrpgs because she couldn't deal with the real-time combat of Action Adventures.

 

[Pureauthor]

Not really. There are certain enemies which you can just button mash to defeat, but you also have the enemies that you need to creatively disarm or maneuver against. Action Adventure games also have things like puzzle-solving mixed in to break up any monotony.

Turn-based games have these elements too. In fact the best 'puzzle dungeons' I've played in recent memory comes from a TBRPG named Golden Sun.

But the real issue with turn-based battles is that there isn't a direct connection between your input and the onscreen action. And the big focus on menu navigation is offputting to many.

Turn-based isn't the same as menu-based. And you're wrong - there is a direct correlation between your input and the action on the menu.

 

[beef3483]

Turn-based games have these elements too. In fact the best 'puzzle dungeons' I've played in recent memory comes from a TBRPG named Golden Sun.

Good, but my point was that it is atypical of the genre.

Turn-based isn't the same as menu-based. And you're wrong - there is a direct correlation between your input and the action on the menu.

So, if an enemy attacks me, I can block on the fly or dodge and avoid the attack altogether? With only milliseconds of lag and without a menu? Or do I have to choose "defend" from the menu, before he even attacks, like your typical FF or DQ game?

 

[Pureauthor]

Good, but my point was that it is atypical of the genre.

No, it's not. The vast majority of TBRPGs allow some leeway in selecting 'attack' over and over, but more often than not they'll need strategy for a fair number of fights.

So, if an enemy attacks me, I can block on the fly or dodge and avoid the attack altogether? With only milliseconds of lag and without a menu? Or do I have to choose "defend" from the menu, before he even attacks, like your typical FF or DQ game?

The enemy's action against you has nothing to do with whether your inputs affect the gameplay. Plenty of action games lack defensive options outside of dodging. And you choosing defend from the menu results in your character defending - again, what the enemy does here is outside of the scope of what we're discussing.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. This conversation will have to wait for tomorrow.

 

[beef3483]

It's mostly because you want to kill off an entire genre because you don't like them. It's self explanatory.

I like aspects of Jrpgs as I already said. But you failed at reading comprehension because I kept strict lines between my own subjective opinions and the objective data(that Jrpgs are on the decline). I never said I wanted the genre to die, only that it might be better for the genre if it left aside old conventions and moved on with the rest of gaming. I also fully acknowledged that many might not like or agree with my assertion. You are the one who chose to discredit without any reasoning while also slinging insults.

 

[cartman414]

Cecil? The best? haha. Cecil is one of the most simplistic and mundane FF heroes; entirely transparent. Typical quest for redemption. Just because Cecil was betrayed by Kain, his king, and lost everything and wah wah wee wah doesn't make him the best main character in the least. That makes no sense.

Even there though, Kain was mind-controlled by Golbez, so it wasn't really a betrayal, and it wasn't really redemption Cecil went through, since he was already atoning for what he did in the prologue.

 

[beef3483]

But that's exactly it. Old conventions? As in turn based battles? It's not a convention, it's a style. It's like saying 2d animation needs to die because claymation is the new hotness. Thus, by saying you think they need to get past turn based battles, you essentially wish the genre to lose its identity, which is practically the same as wishing for it to die.

Die, no. Change, yes. Turn-based battles are not the only aspect of the genre. Things like story, atmosphere, exploration are also key in any Jrpg.

Still that wasn't my point. My point was that you couldn't acknowldege subjectivity as subjectivity without slinging insults or trying to discredit. Pretty hypocritical then, don't you think, to be calling someone else an idiot?

 

[truly101]

FF REWLS YOO GUYZ!

Seriously, I've always enjoyed the games and its arguably my favorite series. However, I learned after VI and then playing VII to temper my expectations and enjoy each game for what they are, not what they aren't designed to be. I didn't need FFVII or X or XII to be FFVI, that game has already been made. Square doesn't need to retread the same game every release.

 

[jump_button]

i play one the ps1 ff's but PS2 mmm no ffx was not that bad wish it was not in a bloody line but ps2 ones was not bad but not good next to ff7 and ff9

ps3 one i have hope

 

[BuckRobotron]

FF REWLS YOO GUYZ!

Seriously, I've always enjoyed the games and its arguably my favorite series. However, I learned after VI and then playing VII to temper my expectations and enjoy each game for what they are, not what they aren't designed to be. I didn't need FFVII or X or XII to be FFVI, that game has already been made. Square doesn't need to retread the same game every release.

More players need to approach things in this fashion, and it does not just apply to FF.

 

[bounchfx]

no, each game is different enough for me. It's basically saying you are losing interest in all rpgs.

 

[Calcaneus]

I still really love the series, its just not the be-all end-all of gaming that it used to be for me.

I'm still totally waiting for FFXIII.

 

[Kadey]

Yep. In fact, nearly all rpgs in general. P3 and Odin Sphere were the only true refreshing ones as of late.

 

[callous]

Die, no. Change, yes. Turn-based battles are not the only aspect of the genre. Things like story, atmosphere, exploration are also key in any Jrpg.

And there are shit-tons of JRPGs that cater to exactly that demand. There's absolutely no need to for the turn based branch to stop. It's not hindering the real-time branch in any way. It would be like saying that because you don't like first person shooters, they need to get rid of the old first person "convention" and go 3rd person only. It makes no sense and no matter how you argue it, it still comes out as a thin veil over the fact that you just don't like turn based RPGs ... which is fine, but it's a matter of taste and not the basis of an argument.

 

[truly101]

I was actually saddened that Odin Sphere didn't hold my interest right off the get go, kinda like Lost Odyssey. They are both good games but I didn't really latch on to either one the way I do most JRPGS.

 

[pancakesandsex]

Die, no. Change, yes. Turn-based battles are not the only aspect of the genre. Things like story, atmosphere, exploration are also key in any Jrpg.

Still that wasn't my point. My point was that you couldn't acknowldege subjectivity as subjectivity without slinging insults or trying to discredit. Pretty hypocritical then, don't you think, to be calling someone else an idiot?

To change the turn based RPG to something not turn based, is to kill it.

Just because you dont like beavers, and you like ducks better, doesnt mean the zoo should kill all the beavers because beavers are considered old hat, and instead create a habitat for ducks. Instead you should be perfectly content that the duck habitat exists on the other side of the zoo, separated by a home for platypus.

 

[Spirit Icana]

Might I makes some recommendations. You should really play FF V, VI, VII, IX, X and if you have the time VIII and then play that imo godawful XII(i really tried to love this game). Also all rpg lovers should try Chrono Trigger because it's that damn good.

Sounds like all the Final Fantasy's I haven't played. Thanks for the rec's. Only VI and IX interest me from the artwork and what I've read. Really though, I don't think Final Fantasy is my game.

My favorite J-RPG is Golden Sun where outside of battle is the main focus. Feel's more adventure filled like a Zelda game that way with plenty of unique puzzles to solve. Lufia II is a game I really wish I could play.