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[charlequin]

It looks like all they would have to do is put an incredibly inexpensive accelerometer in that remote, and open up an app store in order to look like a serious competitor to the Wii.

A "serious competitor to the Wii" is a system that has software with the mass appeal to sell 20+ million units like the Wii, not a system that can produce a vaguely similar interface to the Wii. (Also just adding an accelerometer to the remote wouldn't get you pointing functionality.)

 

[Zoramon089]

There is nearly no chance that they'd have a successful console. You have to remember, a VERY large amount of gamers probably have iPhones, which they use to serve the purposes a normal smartphone does.

A subset of these might even use them in place of traditional handhelds for a variety of reasons (more convenient, more compact, etc). However, when it comes to consoles, I don't see people who have been used to the big 3 switching over to Apples console. It makes no sense. There would be no advantage it would have over the others.

From Apples perspective also, it'd have a hard time considering how hard Mac were snubbed by devs way back. I doubt they've really built up good relationships with 3rd parties like the others have (even though MS started last gen, they had tons of games on PC). It just wouldn't work

 

[Lonely1]

It looks like all they would have to do is put an incredibly inexpensive accelerometer in that remote, and open up an app store in order to look like a serious competitor to the Wii.

Plus there should be a new apple tv later this year with an A5 chip which will support 1080p resolutions and will probably have a minimum of a SGX540 gpu. That would be more than enough power for a console with decent graphics at 720p.

Eh, I dispute that...

 

[Tobor]

I'm a little surprised they didn't put some sort of app store on the new AppleTV, but given that they didn't, I think that's a pretty clear expression that they don't want to get into that business.

The lack of storage would be killer too; ATV2s, by design, don't have any storage space and can't be expanded to have storage.

Pretty much. It has plenty of power, but no storage(the 8GB it does have is used for the firmware and caching video). There is a micro USB on the back, but that's only for service use. Using Airplay for games would be interesting if possible, but no more than a niche thing.

I think what's likely is a firmware update with additional built in video apps like Netflix. Gaming will have to wait until version 3.

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

The industry can barely support three consoles let alone four. Something is going to have to give before Apple can break into the console space.

Here's another thought. Apple's appstore game pricing typically pushes out "full" games at what would be considered bargain-bin prices for traditional consoles. Normally this would be considered disruptive technology, but would Apple necessarily have to raise its app prices as a consequence of making AppleTV a home console?

 

[Jtrizzy]

Nintendo and Apple should create a console/media center. It would be the iWiiHD essentially. Blu ray, wifi, traditional controls, touch controls, ipad/iphone compatibility. BC for all wii games with upscaling. Of course the app store and the VC of course.

 

[Deku]

The industry can barely support three consoles let alone four. Something is going to have to give before Apple can break into the console space.

Here's another thought. Apple's appstore game pricing typically pushes out "full" games at what would be considered bargain-bin prices for traditional consoles. Normally this would be considered disruptive technology, but would Apple necessarily have to raise its app prices as a consequence of making AppleTV a home console?

The bargian bin pricing is really both a curse and a blessing.

It does tap into a high volume market, but it's limits are really obvious. Game like Zenonia , the korean ARPG that was touted as a console experience on the iphone (it's also since been released on the DSi and PSP dl service) show the limits of this.

It does indeed have the production values (at least in terms of sprite quality) of a 32-bit RPG, but the writing and translation was horrid. The plot played out like a parody of your typical 16-bit RPG. I know JRPGs are pretty fomulaic and even the genre kings tend to sometimes parody themselves in terms of how predictable plots can become, but Zenonia takes that parody to new heights.

...and yet reviewers pile praise upon praise on it. I wonder if they're simply amazed that they can get something like the old SNES/Saturn/PS1 rpgs of the 90s on an idivice for under $10. But never really bothered to dig into the game.

In retrospect, the reason why the game is the way it is, is obvious. If you're selling a game for under $10, you can't afford a large staff, and if you want good Pixel art, you rely on low wage out of work student artists who will do it practically for free. But the core of the game itself either has to be done by someone else (ie: copied) and the story is necessarily thin.

You could sell a million copies of game like this and still net less than $10 million in reveneus. That kind of scale is insufficient for anything else than making more games of the same scope.

 

[Lonely1]

The bargian bin pricing is really both a curse and a blessing.

It does tap into a high volume market, but it's limits are really obvious. Game like Zenonia , the korean ARPG that was touted as a console experience on the iphone (it's also since been released on the DSi and PSP dl service) show the limits of this.

It does indeed have the production values (at least in terms of sprite quality) of a 32-bit RPG, but the writing and translation was horrid. The plot played out like a parody of your typical 16-bit RPG. I know JRPGs are pretty fomulaic and even the genre kings tend to sometimes parody themselves in terms of how predictable plots can become, but Zenonia takes that parody to new heights.

...and yet reviewers pile praise upon praise on it. I wonder if they're simply amazed that they can get something like the old SNES/Saturn/PS1 rpgs of the 90s on an idivice for under $10. But never really bothered to dig into the game.

It's also available on the Zeebo.

 

[Lunchbox]

they will enter, its just a matter of time

if you notice the "gamecenter" thing they have on 4th gen touches, its basically a mini version of xbox live with friendslists, achievements, list of games friends are playing, recommendation. and their app store is already their market place. iboxstation is just waiting on the horizon to take over

 

[rezuth]

Heresy! This seems like a stupid idea. I wish iPhones had 3/4 buttons like Android (Search button is almost worthless), but removing the home button? WHY?

Submenu button is retarded and should not be needed for a phone. "Hmm, how can we actually cram more useless stuff into this? I know, how about a dedicated button that no average user will figure out when and how to use!"

 

[SnakeXs]

Heresy! This seems like a stupid idea. I wish iPhones had 3/4 buttons like Android (Search button is almost worthless), but removing the home button? WHY?

5 finger pinch gesture.

 

[the TMO]

if stops to create overpriced hardware every 2 years, yes.

 

[charlequin]

they will enter, its just a matter of time

It's really not. Notice how even though Apple makes a shitload of money off of iOS gaming, they're not developing or publishing games themselves, they're not actively courting any sort of support, and they're very much not moving into the "dedicated system" market -- there's no Apple product with a D-pad, nothing specific for gamers.

Apple's game profits on iOS are the result of capturing a largely untapped market using a product that sells on its own merits but then can also play games. There is no real equivalent untapped market for television gaming -- there isn't a large untapped mass of people wishing for the sort of bite-sized entertainment that iOS gaming provided on their TV, and Apple is neither well-positioned to enter into direct competition with Wii/360/PS3, nor do they have much incentive to do so as these consoles are orders of magnitude less profitable than any of Apple's endeavors and do not represent a threat to the success of any of their current products.

 

[Lunchbox]

It's really not. Notice how even though Apple makes a shitload of money off of iOS gaming, they're not developing or publishing games themselves, they're not actively courting any sort of support, and they're very much not moving into the "dedicated system" market -- there's no Apple product with a D-pad, nothing specific for gamers.

Apple's game profits on iOS are the result of capturing a largely untapped market using a product that sells on its own merits but then can also play games. There is no real equivalent untapped market for television gaming -- there isn't a large untapped mass of people wishing for the sort of bite-sized entertainment that iOS gaming provided on their TV, and Apple is neither well-positioned to enter into direct competition with Wii/360/PS3, nor do they have much incentive to do so as these consoles are orders of magnitude less profitable than any of Apple's endeavors and do not represent a threat to the success of any of their current products.

their goal wouldnt be to heavily increase their profit margin though, it would be more along the line of what microsofts goal was back in 01. to gain market share and have a device to penetrate the living room space. right now they dont have something like that. and something marketed like the wii would really become a hit, especially with apples branding behind it.

and youre right they will never go in it like sony/nintendo/ms with first party games and expensive AAAs. but if you look at their approach with the ipad/touch, they are moving their focus towards that, it does everything you need/entertainment hub for their existing products.

 

[charlequin]

their goal wouldnt be to heavily increase their profit margin though, it would be more along the line of what microsofts goal was back in 01.

Apple is a dramatically better run company than post-2000 Microsoft and they very literally only enter into markets in which they have an expectation of producing extensive profits, rather than throwing money away on long-shot strategic speculation. (They also don't have a product directly threatened by the niche game consoles are starting to fill the way Microsoft did in 2001.)

but if you look at their approach with the ipad/touch, they are moving their focus towards that, it does everything you need/entertainment hub for their existing products.

But that's exactly why pushing towards gaming on the ATV is a non-starter. The ATV itself is a fairly minor product and its goal is really just to extend the utility of their existing iTunes content and lock users into in another display method (TV) using Apple's content. In a few years you're just going to plug your iPod/iPad into the TV and watch TV/play games/whatever that way, like iPod docks have replaced stereos for most people. That's when consoles will have to worry about "competition" from Apple.

 

[Bert]

Submenu button is retarded and should not be needed for a phone. "Hmm, how can we actually cram more useless stuff into this? I know, how about a dedicated button that no average user will figure out when and how to use!"

The new Android UI guy (from Palm, forget his name) agrees with you. Honeycomb can be button free if needed.

Regarding OP, I see a convergence of various computing use cases (gaming, web surfing, streaming media, etc.) that are all going to be one (maybe one plus a portable) box in the near future.

What's interesting is that no-one holds all the cards. Sony have content and PlayStation, MS Have Windows, WP7 and XBOX but no content and Nintendo have gaming but not much else. Meanwhile Apple have desktop, phone and content but no real set top box and Google have phone and are trying to muscle in on desktop and set top box but again no content.

Some kind of merger/cross-licensing has to happen somewhere.

ATV has the price and form factor I want, but not the openness to play games/stream my own media in the format I want. The only way around this I can see is for a dedicated controller, but that doesn't fit in with Apple's strategy at all. I'd expect some level of AirPlay integration and perhaps some motion controlled games (like racing games, Super Monkey Ball, etc) but not for it to ever be something on the level of even the iPhone/iPod/iPad let alone the PS3/360.

 

[TouchMyBox]

Eh, I dispute that...

How about you take that and double the graphical performance again? :3

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/more-details-emerge-on-apples-a5-chip-for-upcoming-ipad-2-and-i/

And while yeah, there wouldn't be a pointer, there would still be movement gestures and a d-pad. That's not far from a controller.

 

[Haunted]

Pippin 2, can't wait.

If apple makes a console, it'll be twice as expensive as the others with half the power. And it'll sell because of all the apple fans will buy it because it's from apple.

 

[Future]

Still surprised there arent apps on it. Games aside, it'd make the thing useful. For games, you could just use the iphone as a controller for most non twitch games.

It's an obvious next step. I'm sure they will do this eventually, and all competitors will just copy it since no one is making an effort now

 

[blame space]

If apple makes a console, it'll be twice as expensive as the others with half the power. And it'll sell because of all the apple fans will buy it because it's from apple.

wow

 

[ToxicAdam]

I think there is a large distinction between a 'traditional console' and a 'thing that plays games'.

That distinction is exclusive software. I just don't see Apple having the pull (or the desire) to create games that people want to a degree that it would drive people to buy their machine for that sole purpose.

 

[Htown]

Still surprised there arent apps on it. Games aside, it'd make the thing useful. For games, you could just use the iphone as a controller for most non twitch games.

It's an obvious next step. I'm sure they will do this eventually, and all competitors will just copy it since no one is making an effort now

Ugh.

See this is the problem with Apple stuff. You can't just get a product from apple, you have to buy into their BS ALL THE WAY. What if I don't have/want an iPhone? How am I supposed to control games on the device then?

There's way too much of Apple's proprietary nonsense out there already, I don't need that stupidity in the console space.

 

[Lonely1]

How about you take that and double the graphical performance again? :3

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/17/more-details-emerge-on-apples-a5-chip-for-upcoming-ipad-2-and-i/

And while yeah, there wouldn't be a pointer, there would still be movement gestures and a d-pad. That's not far from a controller.

SGX 543 is not the double performance of the SGX 540. (The current box uses the 535).
Edit: Oh, the rumor is dual GPU now? Well, that would leave the current Apple TV install base out of the loop, though.

 

[Tobor]

But that's exactly why pushing towards gaming on the ATV is a non-starter. The ATV itself is a fairly minor product and its goal is really just to extend the utility of their existing iTunes content and lock users into in another display method (TV) using Apple's content. In a few years you're just going to plug your iPod/iPad into the TV and watch TV/play games/whatever that way, like iPod docks have replaced stereos for most people. That's when consoles will have to worry about "competition" from Apple.

ATV is the dock, via Airplay. It only works for video and audio now(1st party video apps and all audio apps work now, and 4.3 adds third party video apps.). That said, it's conceivable that Apple could add the ability to stream video to the ATV, and control a game using the iOS device.

The ATV seems like a minor product now, (although selling a million CE devices in a month would be a major hit for anybody else), but Airplay blows peoples minds. I think whether or not the ATV runs third party apps is ultimately not important. The interesting question is whether or not it's going to be a $99 wireless adapter that turns your existing iOS device into a console.

 

[Future]

Ugh.

See this is the problem with Apple stuff. You can't just get a product from apple, you have to buy into their BS ALL THE WAY. What if I don't have/want an iPhone? How am I supposed to control games on the device then?

There's way too much of Apple's proprietary nonsense out there already, I don't need that stupidity in the console space.

Then get an ipod touch .

Seriously, its all good business. It is why apple is doing so well. They found away to connect their successes and birth more success. Now of course they could bundle a controller of sorts, and probably would in the future if they were to take this seriously. But for the current apple tv, I dont think theyd have to. The people interested would most likely already be playing these games on a compatable apple product

 

[marc^o^]

Ugh.

See this is the problem with Apple stuff. You can't just get a product from apple, you have to buy into their BS ALL THE WAY. What if I don't have/want an iPhone? How am I supposed to control games on the device then?

This is as stupid as ranting you need a x360 to play Kinect games. A fair margin of the +150 million of iPhone/iTouch/iPad owners would be glad to get increased value from their device through a new product. Too bad if you aren't part of this ecosystem because of some aversion against Apple.

 

[Lazy8s]

The A5 was always going to be at least 543MP2 + dual A9... just follow the trends.

The 540 is more than capable of driving a gaming display at 720p.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQD5WGreQh4 (like 1080p, for example)

See the demo room at Imgtec's site for the 535 driving 1080p Quake 3 at high quality settings.

 

[Lonely1]

Quake 3 is a very old game, though. Of course it can display 1080p, but is it going to be competitive with 6 years old consoles?

 

[Lazy8s]

It was more about the speed and rendering quality.

Quake 3's antiquity, though, also means it's not exploiting modern tools and the shader architecture in order to look modern.

 

[Ulairi]

Heresy! This seems like a stupid idea. I wish iPhones had 3/4 buttons like Android (Search button is almost worthless), but removing the home button? WHY?

Because webOS doesn't need buttons and he's jealous that HP has the best mobile OS.

 

[Diablohead]

Apple doesn't need to match the console leaders right now, they just need a quick, cheap accessible open platform, which the iOS and app store are doing very well.

Imagine coming home from a day out, loading up your apple tv and playing Galaxy on Fire 2 using the same synced save file you have on your iphone, only difference being you are now playing it on your tv in 1080p while you relax. the ipad is compatible with every iphone iOS title as it just naturally scales it up so the apple tv would not be short on games and apps at all, though you would have to play them looking blocky until support is added in, a lot of the heavy hitters already have that support.

Best thing to do is not compare the apple tv to microsoft's xbox 360 or sony's ps3, as it will never be that.

 

[charlequin]

ATV is the dock, via Airplay.

I think it's very likely it'll go through 2-3 more hardware revisions before anything like that really happens for app content in an all-inclusive way, but yeah, basically. If one wants to talk about iOS gaming on a TV, they shouldn't be thinking of a peripheral that will let them control iOS apps run off the ATV, they should be thinking about how reasonably-priced the ATV can be as a peripheral to the iPhone/Touch/iPad to let them play their games on a TV.

 

[Stumpokapow]

If apple makes a console, it'll be twice as expensive as the others with half the power. And it'll sell because of all the apple fans will buy it because it's from apple.

at least it's betterthan the micro$HIT 3shitty!!!! lol XBOTS just playing cod and halol but it's all rrod newayz so not like trhay can even do that!!!!!! meanwhile payin $100 a year just for shitty pvp!!!

slash thread

qft

 

[noire]

deleted

 

[noire]

deleted

 

[Synth_floyd]

Apple already has 2 consoles. The iphone/ipod touch and the ipad.

 

[AppleBlade]

There's way too much of Apple's proprietary nonsense out there already, I don't need that stupidity in the console space.

Yeah, we love our open-source consoles. I love how Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft allow anyone to install whatever they want on their systems. I also love how anybody can develop games for these systems without getting approval. Apple is way to restrictive with their "app store" mentality to fit in, in the current console marketplace.

(obviously, I am being sarcastic since the big 3 video game companies are way more restrictive than Apple's iOS platform, a fact that many gamers don't seem to realize or perhaps don't "want" to realize)

 

[Zoc]

People are worrying far too much about the controller. Controlling big-screen games with an iPhone would be great.

The Mac App Store has more than a few ports of iOS games that have been adapted to use the multitouch trackpad on new Apple laptops, and they work great. Angry Birds is on there and works perfectly. One of the first iOS games that I really liked, Zen Bound, is on there and works very well. Osmos works great. Mirror's Edge, still my favourite iOS game, isn't on there, but I wish it was. Lots of games that require you to look where your fingers are wouldn't work, but just as many would work fine.

Also, keep in mind that, even as it stands, the ATV only becomes worthwhile when it's used together with an iPhone or iPod. Using it by itself with the stock remote is a terrible experience. What's good about it is using Airplay to move whatever you're watching by yourself on your iPhone onto the TV.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I think opening up the App (gaming) Store to Apple TV (and putting a ton of marketing dollars behind it) are the closest you'll get to see an Apple console. The days of a company like that entering the traditional console space are over. It's all about convergence now. Having one box where not only can you play games but also use facebook and netflix and rent or buy music/movies/games.

 

[Stinkles]

I own one. As was noted in the first reply, the remote control is absolutely AWFUL. Searching for Netflix movies is rotten.

Also, recently, Youtube has been crapping out and failing completely. There are a lot of posts about this on Apple forums filled with helpful advice like, "try resetting it," or "it's your fault for having your router set up wrong."

But mostly, the "controller" is worse than useless. Classic example of form over function.

 

[theultimo]

Apple TV "controller" is a remote.

However, there are ways of getting OSX on it, so maybe a horrible games machine with K+M control it is.

 

[jts]

Apple TV "controller" is a remote.

However, there are ways of getting OSX on it, so maybe a horrible games machine with K+M control it is.

Nah, you're thinking of the first Apple TV, which was a x86 machine that ran a stripped down OSX version, so that was possible -- but the current one is an ARM machine, much like an iPhone or an iPad, running iOS. No chance of running OSX.

 

[LaneDS]

Like you say in the first post, controls are the big issue. I've had an iPhone for three years and bought a bunch of games but I'll never ever accept touch or motion controls as a substitute for actual tactile controls. If they take the time to create a standardized control scheme that isn't touch or motion based, then I'm interested, otherwise I'm happy occasionally dropping a dollar or two to keep myself entertained during downtime.

 

[BowieZ]

iPlay too obvious?

 

[Kodiak]

They put the App Store on Mac just weeks ago. Do you really not think they are investigating the best way to bring it to the Apple tv platform?

Logically speaking it's a matter of when rather than if.

 

[Mr. B]

The AppleTV turning into an iOS device with apps is inevitable. It'll trojan horse it's way into the game industry just as they did with the iPhone and Touch.

 

[mrkgoo]

I think there is a large distinction between a 'traditional console' and a 'thing that plays games'.

That distinction is exclusive software. I just don't see Apple having the pull (or the desire) to create games that people want to a degree that it would drive people to buy their machine for that sole purpose.

Unless the model changes and doesn't become about the exclusive titles anymore, but about how accessible it is. I'd say consoles are pretty accessible already, but you never know. Obviously, it's going to be hard to compete against Mario, Zelda, Halo etc, but competition doesn't have to be direct (with people dismissing it until it's too late!).

140 million iOS devices out there, the AppleTv could be leveraged as the accessory to play games on the TV for the game machine they already have. Think about how popular the DS is, and how cool it would be if you could just stream games to a TV.

They're not far from that.

Remember, the general public can be fickle - changing what they want in the blink of an eye. Sure, it'll be hard to convince the old hats, but that may not matter. Just look at the wii.

 

[Stinkles]

I own one. As was noted in the first reply, the remote control is absolutely AWFUL. Searching for Netflix movies is rotten.

Also, recently, Youtube has been crapping out and failing completely. There are a lot of posts about this on Apple forums filled with helpful advice like, "try resetting it," or "it's your fault for having your router set up wrong."

But mostly, the "controller" is worse than useless. Classic example of form over function.

Just wanted to rant a bit more. This thing is such a HUGE POS. It almost never works now. The stated solution on Apple support is that you should hard or soft reset. This doesn't work. The Apple store stuff seems to work fine, but Youtube and Netflix work about one try in ten.

After exploring Apple's own forums, it sounds like this and other problems are absolutely rife. My tech suspicion is that it's a mismatch between routers and Apple's own service/servers - slow connections are a symptom of the overall issue, even when the network test comes back clean - but Apple does not seem to give a flying shit, since the problems seem to extend from Gen 1.

Mine is Gen 2 - worked perfectly the first day, is almost pointlessly nonfunctional at this point and is going back to the store. Boxee here I come.

/Rage.

 

[Vinci]

I used to think Apple might try a console sometime soon. Then I looked at MS and Sony, and said to myself, "Why the hell would they want to do this to themselves?"

EDIT: I mean, adding an app store to Apple TV is one thing... Trying to be a major console player is entirely different.

 

[bdouble]

Well I just opened the OSX app store and I'd say they already have a multi million selling console. They are probably touching as many people as Steam at this point with all the iOS and Mac OSX systems out there.

They have a unified service over a multitude of platforms. Adding gaming as we speak.