Support NeoGAF

[Tak3n]

1.New kids on the block

At the 2015 Winter X Games in Aspen, there will be much that is radical – snowboarders, monoskiers, slopestylers and snowmobilers, all performing remarkable feats of athleticism, strength and dexterity. Usually in mid air.


But most radical of all, there will also be men and women hunched over computers, blowing away imaginary baddies (and goodies) with imaginary machine guns, while thousands of real people watch and cheer. What’s more, they will be handing out medals for all this imaginary carnage – just like all the other sports. Which begs the question: is computer gaming really sport at all?



OJ Borg presents a BBC Radio 5 live special – Gaming: The Rise of the Cyber Athletes – on Thursday 15 January at 20.30 GMT, which you can also watch live on the BBC Sport website

The case FOR

"Why is it not a sport?" says Blicharz. "Why should a horse be forced to prove it is indeed a horse?"

Michal Blicharz, originally from Poland, is a former judoka who has fulfilled many roles in esports, from competitor to referee to coach. He now organises esports events around the world, on behalf of the Electronic Sports League (ESL), which Blicharz likens to the Football Association in England

However, and in common with most people you speak to in the esports community, Blicharz doesn’t really care if people think esports is sport or not. esports is doing things its own way – and traditional sports should take note

6.The case AGAINST
Fomer professional snowboarder and BBC commentatorTim Warwood

"Sitting down for hours in a darkened room playing computer games doesn't strike me as sport," says Warwood.

To have kids sitting there looking at computer screens indoors, alongside snowboarding and freestyle skiing and all the rest, it just doesn’t seem right,” he says

The US Government recognises esports players as professional athletes, at least where the granting of visas is concerned. But not everyone agrees. Despite ESPN dipping its toe into esports, its president John Skipper is distinctly lukewarm. “[esports] is not a sport,” he said, “it’s a competition. Mostly I’m interested in doing real sports.”


much more here http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zygq2hv#zcdhn39

 

[3DShovel]

It's a sport. People (read: dumb people) seem to think that in order for something to be a sport you have to go outside and hit something around, be it a ball, a puck, or another person.

If chess is a sport, video games can also be a sport.

 

[Mabufu]

In the sense of spending hours, training, beating challenges, and giving your best to beat the competitors, yes, it's a sport.

But if you assume that sport means physical activity, then it's not.

So the question is, what is a sport?

 

[joe2187]

if the US can recognize a Professional poker player as a legitamate athlete...why the hell not.

 

[Tidus_Great]

don't people consider poker a sport? if so how can you deny videogames.

and not all athletes are necessarily fit in the same sense. different sports require different skills. So yeah it's a sport, and just because some gamers look geeky doesn't make it not so.

 

[Lagamorph]

If something like Darts can be considered a sport then I don't see why Computer Games can't be.

 

[wetflame]

"Computer gaming" isn't a sport in the same way that "hitting a ball" isnt a sport. Specific gaming competitions might be sport if you choose to class things like chess as a sport, but "computer gaming" isn't a sport in the same way that "playing board games" isn't a sport.

 

[Alx]

The case FOR

"Why is it not a sport?" says Blicharz. "Why should a horse be forced to prove it is indeed a horse?"

Michal Blicharz, originally from Poland, is a former judoka who has fulfilled many roles in esports, from competitor to referee to coach. He now organises esports events around the world, on behalf of the Electronic Sports League (ESL), which Blicharz likens to the Football Association in England

However, and in common with most people you speak to in the esports community, Blicharz doesn’t really care if people think esports is sport or not. esports is doing things its own way – and traditional sports should take note

He doesn't really make a strong point. "It's a sport because it is and I shouldn't have to prove it.". Well ok, then.
Although I'd rather agree with his other way of dealing with it, "don't really care how you call it".

In the end I'll always make a difference between what is commonly labeled "sport" and involves a big part of physical activity, and those that don't. So you can call them "sport" if you like, but video games, chess or poker are certainly in a different category than track & field, volley-ball or weightlifting.
What about darts, golf and shuffle puck ? Erm, I suppose they're somewhere in-between.

 

[GoldenCrow]

I'd say yes. All kinds of sport are competitive methods of play that are forms of entertainment, the athletic kind has a basis in physical exertion the digital kind has a basis in mental exertion.

Are computer games in general a sport? No, just as kicking a ball around with some friends, going for a run or bike ride isn't a sport.

 

[Clefargle]

Yes, it is "sporting" fun

 

[Ferrio]

noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


How is there even a discussion? It's not a sport, it's right there in the definition.

 

[PastorOfMuppets]

It's not a sport.

You can put sports in the name if you like (ie: motorosports, e-sports) but it doesn't mean it's a sport. Sports involve physical exertion.

And before anyone asks, no, I don't consider golf to be a sport.

 

[Sjefen]

Definition of Sport according to Oxford Dictionaries: An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.

Lets break it down:
An activity involving physical exertion: You use your fingers and arms on the keyboard and mouse, CHECK
skill that is governed by a set of rules and often undertaken competitively.: Yes you need a lot of skill and there are plenty of rules in competitive gaming, CHECK

The point most people have an issue with is the physical part, but hey the brain uses 20% of your body energy consumption maybe more so in pro gaming.

 

[MaddenNFL64]

If we're classifying it like we do chess, poker, darts, billiards etc which are in some form or another "sports", or at least serious competitions. Yes, absolutely.

 

[Alx]

If you count brain activity as physical exertion (which seems dubious), then anything with rules will fall under that definition. Is Wheel of Fortune a sport ?

 

[3DShovel]

noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


How is there even a discussion? It's not a sport, it's right there in the definition.

Ok.

Explain chess.

 

[Gravy Boat]

noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


How is there even a discussion? It's not a sport, it's right there in the definition.

Definitions can change though. Pretty sure that definition was in place long before computer games even existed. Who's to say the 'physical' part can't be removed? As that's really the only difference between sports and e-sports.

 

[Ferrio]

Ok.

Explain chess.

It's not a sport.

 

[fanboi]

Ok.

Explain chess.

Or dart.

Or bowling.

Or pool.

 

[thelurkinghorror]

No way.
But why chess is considered a sport?

 

[danmaku]

noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


How is there even a discussion? It's not a sport, it's right there in the definition.

Games do require physical activity. Not much compared to football, but some degree of dexterity is necessary. Stephen Hawking couldn't play LoL, he could play chess though, because it's turn based.

 

[Alx]

Definitions can change though. Pretty sure that definition was in place long before computer games even existed. Who's to say the 'physical' part can't be removed? As that's really the only difference between sports and e-sports.

It seems obvious that you can use any word for anything if you change their definition.

 

[danowat]

Of course it's a sport, just like fishing is a sport, a sport doesn't require physical activity.

 

[Ferrio]

You know what a sport is without physical exertion? A game.

 

[tesla246]

The definition of sport as we know it is outdated, and dates back from ancient times where there were only physical ways to be competetive. Sport can be a competitve excersize or just a training of a specific part of the human body, such as your legs (100m run), your brain, (chess), or a combination of more body parts. Now in the digital age we live in, new ways of competitve sports arise, which are different from the old outdated term "sports" we used to know (such as starcraft 2 esports), but fall into the sports category 100% sports nonetheless. Sports can be a physical excersise, as well as a mental one, or a combination of both. Because why can you only be competitve/train specific parts if your muscles/human body and not your brain? Sounds outdated to me.

Its true that playing any game should not be considered as practising a sport, but there are certain games that require such a devotion of your time in order to he competitve and have such a steep learning curve that they absolutely can be considered as sport.

 

[Stilton Disco]

If car racing and shooting guns can be a sport, so can organised competitive gaming.

Fucking Curling is a sport of gods sakes, so's Darts, and Snooker. You don't need to be a top athlete to be a sportsperson.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Ok.

Explain chess.

Chess is a game that has been incorrectly classified as a sport.

Next?

 

[fanboi]

As long as dart, bowling, poker, pool, snooker, chess etc is considered as sports, competitive gaming should aswell.

 

[Chris1]

Please tell me I'm not the only one that googled 'is chess a sport?' Never heard of it being called a sport until this topic... wtf.

That's stupid. If Chess is considered a sport then so should gaming, but I don't think either are.

 

[MrChom]

It's not a sport.

Well....that was easy.

If video games are a sport then so are Poker, Chess, Warhammer, competitive knitting, hurling one's body down a hill in pursuit of a wheel of cheese, procrastination, letter writing and NASCAR.

They can be popular....and viewed (god knows why, watching LoL has to be the most boring experience I've ever had....and I quite enjoyed playing it) but that doesn't make them sports, and we need to stop treating them like getting that tag makes them implicity better, worse, or viewed more seriously. They're games, it's a multi billion dollar industry with products enjoyed by pretty much all demographics under the sun, deal with it.

 

[Paertan]

Chess, Bridge, poker and some other activities are recognized as sport by certain associations. Mostly because something like The Olympic Committee wanted chess in the Olympic Games. Voilà. It is now a sport.

And that is chess only. Not all board games.

If a major sport association wanted to host a DOTA 2 tournament they would acknowledge it as a sport. Not all video games. Just DOTA 2.
And maybe other associations would also call it a sport then.

So no chess is not a sport. It is considered a sport by many because it is used in events with sports.

 

[Gravy Boat]

It seems obvious that you can use any word for anything if you change their definition.

I'm not talking about a complete overhaul, the removal of one word seems pretty reasonable does it not?

Although some people seem flat out insulted that games can be considered sports (Not directed to the guy I'm quoting, but some people really seem to get offended over it).

 

[weekev]

noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


How is there even a discussion? It's not a sport, it's right there in the definition.

I was about to post this exact post. Its not a sport in the same way darts and snooker arent sports. As much as I love all 3, having any of them at the Olympics would feel like a piss take.

 

[nowarning]

Even if it fits into some definitions there's still something in the back of my mind that thinks its a bit daft, like who is campaigning for it to be recognized as a sport? Why does it matter? Why can't it just be it's own thing?

 

[Razzer]

The thing about the physical side is, the speed at which the highest players have to move their hands and fingers is very fast. Especially in some games.

A dota player was ruled out of his team due to an injury for months, if that is possible there must be some physical exertion involved.

 

[V_Arnold]

noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


How is there even a discussion? It's not a sport, it's right there in the definition.

If you are not half-dead after a game, its not a sport? Golf no longer a sport confirmed.

 

[Gravy Boat]

You know what a sport is without physical exertion? A game.

So all those times when I was playing cops and robbers with my friends when I was a kid, I was playing a sport? Games can require physical activity too.

 

[Vaporak]

noun
1.
an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.


How is there even a discussion? It's not a sport, it's right there in the definition.

Indeed, eSports require physical exertion, skill, and competition. Seems to objectively fit the definition to me, not sure why this is a discussion. I imagine the point you are objecting to is "physical exertion", but if eSports players get physical injuries from the stress of playing their games then I don't see how that doesn't count as physical exertion.

 

[redcrayon]

It's not a sport.

You can put sports in the name if you like (ie: motorosports, e-sports) but it doesn't mean it's a sport. Sports involve physical exertion.

And before anyone asks, no, I don't consider golf to be a sport.

Plenty of motorsport involves a hell of a lot of endurance. Maintaining a racing car or bike through a rally or hours of racing across rough terrain requires a certain level of fitness, not to mention concentration as it can be very dangerous. It's really not comparable to sitting in a comfy chair with a controller.

 

[Ferrio]

Indeed, eSports require physical exertion, skill, and competition. Seems to objectively fit the definition to me, not sure why this is a discussion. I imagine the point you are objecting to is "physical exertion", but if eSports players get physical injuries from the stress of playing their games then I don't see how that doesn't count as physical exertion.

If you had a defined ruleset and scoring system, then yes I would consider it a sport.

 

[NJDEN]

idk... Is chess a sport? If it is then video games are to, if not then no.

 

[Velurian]

I mean in starcraft for instance pro players perform up to 400ish actions per minute. And those are mainly purposful movements not just pure speed. While I was at my best, I could reach 220 ish and I pretty sporty in a classical sense.

So I certainly see the physical side of esport as well. Those guys work out in addition top gaming to keep their bodies doing.

Aslo, as stated before, if you consider chess/poker a sport, I dont see why starcraft for instance should not be...

 

[Paertan]

Even if it fits into some definitions there's still something in the back of my mind that thinks its a bit daft, like who is campaigning for it to be recognized as a sport? Why does it matter? Why can't it just be it's own thing?

I have no idea. Maybe it would be accepted as a more normal pass time. I might be biased since I live in Jönköping where Dreamhack takes place but people don't frown upon eSport here.

 

[Alx]

The definition of sport as we know it is outdated, and dates back from ancient time where there were only physical ways to be competetive.

Competitive games have existed long before our modern languages even existed. Antique Egyptians played senet in 3000 BC for example.

I'm not talking about a complete overhaul, the removal of one word seems pretty reasonable does it not?

Sure I was just joking anyway.
But like I said, even if we change the definition to include activities like chess or video games, I don't think it will change the perception of people, about physical activities vs intellectual activities. E-sports organizers claim that title probably because they want it to be seen as noble as "regular" sport. But you won't get football supporters to start cheering for counterstrike just because you changed the name.

 

[Haunted]

It's not a sport.

Well....that was easy.

If video games are a sport then so are Poker, Chess, Warhammer, competitive knitting, hurling one's body down a hill in pursuit of a wheel of cheese, procrastination, letter writing and NASCAR.

They can be popular....and viewed (god knows why, watching LoL has to be the most boring experience I've ever had....and I quite enjoyed playing it) but that doesn't make them sports, and we need to stop treating them like getting that tag makes them implicity better, worse, or viewed more seriously. They're games, it's a multi billion dollar industry with products enjoyed by pretty much all demographics under the sun, deal with it.

Wait, motorsports aren't a sport?

 

[Tobinishi]

I'm not considering E-Sports as actual sports but as long as Chess, Pool, Dart etc. is considered a sport, it shouldn't be handled differently.

 

[Roberto Larcos]

Are exams a sport? I mean, if no physical exertion is required, then why not? You come out with a score at the end anyway.

GAF: Why shouldn't geography exams be in the Olympics?

 

[Masquerader]

It's in the same vein as chess. Additionally, it's hugely impractical to be unfit when you game professionally, and professional gamers know it. So they're often fit, so long as they aren't eating Doritos and Mountain Moss for promotional purposes.

 

[fanboi]

Are exams a sport? I mean, if no physical exertion is required, then why not? You come out with a score at the end anyway.

GAF: Why shouldn't geography exams be in the Olympics?

Regarding exams, you don't compete with anyone.

 

[Gravy Boat]

Are exams a sport? I mean, if no physical exertion is required, then why not? You come out with a score at the end anyway.

GAF: Why shouldn't geography exams be in the Olympics?

Exams are a test of your own knowledge, they're not competitive. Nice try though.