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[Widge]

It’s one of the dominating topics when you came to WiiU and now to NX. However, EA’s comments about “if it makes sense” make it quite transparent that it is never going to happen.

Making sense means that if they make it, people will buy it and in enough volume to make it worthwhile.

Is this ever going to happen?

Let’s say Nintendo put aside their philosophy of break even, low power, low cost consoles and of idiosyncratic controllers and the put out a console that is an architectural match for the Sony and Microsoft platforms. Can you see them edging into the market and their machines becoming more than a second system status?

The Sony and Microsoft ecosystems are pretty mature. Friends lists, existing catalogues, all of these are significant ties for buyers, which in turn drive which machine those users will buy their games on. For my purposes, the PC became the primary machine in my house in the era of the PS3, which was quickly reduced to exclusives and PSN+ titles.

With that in mind, can third party titles even survive on a Nintendo platform?

From where I’ve sat, it always looks like it makes more sense for them to ensure they stay cost effective and focus on unique titles and experiences. It’s actually that which makes me look across at NX as a companion to my PC, or even getting a WiiU on the cheap – this over grabbing a PS4 or XB1 (and successors). Chasing third party feels more like a box checking exercise.

 

[georly]

It will happen when nintendo demonstrates their system is valuable enough for enough consumers to purchase. They failed to demonstrate the Wii U's value to many many consumers.

Gaining third party is one way to increase your system's value, but there are other ways as well. Unfortunately (mainly western) 3rd party has not done as well on Nintendo consoles since arguably the SNES era, though I assume the split began in the N64 era. Some gamecube games did better on cube, I think, like soul calibur 2.

Ways nintendo can increase value without third party support (Past examples in parentheses):

• Increase number of first party titles by a great amount.
• Increase frequency of release of first party titles.
• Have valuable games available at launch (or within 30-60 days of launch). Zelda, Smash, 3D mario, etc.
• Demonstrate that plenty of highly anticipated titles are on the way (Mario Kart, Pikmin, etc).
• Create NEW IP that appeals to a both old and new fans (Splatoon)
• Moneyhat some 3rd party games (Bayonetta, W101, Monster hunter)
• License IP to 3rd party (Hyrule Warriors)
• Improve system-wide online features so that they have some parity with Sony/MS (Ease of porting AND appealing to consumers)

They had the right idea toward the 2nd half of the Wii U, they just need to do it sooner and do more of it.

If they can, they should try their best to ensure that ANY third party games they get sell well on their system, by marketing them and possibly providing exclusive features (amiibo support, Nintendo IP in the game - mario costume ex, , etc)

I see BandaiNamco, Tecmo/Koei, SquareEnix, and Capcom all on board initially, simply because of how well their games have done on 3DS and due to partnerships seen on Wii U (Smash bros, hyrule warriors, etc). Western IP will need to see that NX has a good install base, that NX isn't a huge financial burden to port to, AND that NX consumers would be willing to purchase their games (they may not, depending on the demographic that purchases NX).

In short: Do not expect western third party at launch (save budget ubisoft stuff). Expect nintendo to have to EARN fan support first, and third party MAY follow.

 

[Gamezone]

Yes, because people have already settled with PS4 and Xbox One for third party.

 

[maxcriden]

Japanese third parties, completely realistic. Sam's for family friendly IPs like Skylanders and Just Dance. Everything else, it will simply depend on if the platform is a success, and we don't have anywhere near enough info about it yet to speculate with any real degree of certainty.

 

[Nightbird]

Honestly? Yes.

Neither Nintendo, nor any of the third party publishers have shown or said something that makes me hope for a good support, and as long that doesn't happen, it'll be unrealistic

 

[mikefrails]

If the excuses given during the Wii U's run are anything to judge, yes.

 

[Ktg1973]

3rd party have left Nintendo since N64. They will never return.

 

[Kouriozan]

Yes, Nintendo showed us multiple time they simply don't want to invest getting western 3rd party support, and even if they do, it'll be like Wii/Wii U's "Nintendo's fans only buy Nintendo games".
There is nothing they can do to improve the situation.

 

[cws]

Which 3rd Parties are you talking about ? I expect solid Indie and japanese publisher support. Western publishers will come on board if the system is a success, like always.

3rd party have left Nintendo since N64. They will never return.

Wii had quite a lot of 3rd Party support. Many of them were exclusives, which in this day and age would be even more difficult to justify.

Yes, Nintendo showed us multiple time they simply don't want to invest getting western 3rd party support, and even if they do, it'll be like Wii/Wii U's "Nintendo's fans only buy Nintendo games".
There is nothing they can do to improve the situation.

lol.....you cant be serious.

 

[alpha69]

If porting to their system and porting outside their system becomes easy I expect them to at least get quite a few 3rd party ports or multi-plats on their early years. WiiU was not like this admitted by Nintendo themselves, that's why you rarely see multi-plats on WiiU.

The real question is, can they catch up to MS/Sony so it would "make sense" for 3rd party to include them in the party. The longer the wait, the less likely it seems to me.

 

[Newtype-001]

They wont get substantial 3rd party support, maybe some late ports but thats about what im expecting.

 

[LewieP]

Only if your definition of third party support is as narrow as major Western publishers.

Nintendo are far better positioned to court this type of third party support:

• Japanese publishers who are currently prioritizing 3DS/Vita support.
• Indies who don't need to shift as many units to make supporting a platform economically viable.
• Mobile devs with games that are a good fit for porting to consoles.
• Devs with whom Nintendo is willing and able to negotiate specific strategic partnerships with (stuff like the Sonic/Monster Hunt exclusivity).

I am optimistic that the NX will be designed around appealing to these groups, since that is an achievable goal for Nintendo. They are not going to get comprehensive and broad support in line with what PS/Xbox get from the likes of EA, Ubisoft, Activision, Bethesda & WB until there is a proven market for the types of games they make on Nintendo platforms.

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

if the system infrastructure is similar to its competitors and there's a healthy consumer base on that console, I don't see any reason for publishers not to make their games available for purchase on Nintendo's next console.

Obviously, it'll cost them more money/time to add another platform to develop for, but if there's a market they will...I hope.

 

[2+2=5]

It depends on the console and on how much Nintendo is going to pay for 3rd party support.

Imo in the beginning many developers will wait, if they'll see that nintendo did the right moves they will join.

 

[LordRaptor]

I'm going to say no, assuming whatever nintendo home console releases next gets close enough to pulling it own weight in marketshare, just because games now are so expensive to make I don't think third parties can afford to be too picky.

If the next console is D.O.A its a moot point though.

 

[Taker666]

I don't think it's unrealistic...Nintendo simply need to do more to encourage them (and make those things widely known).


For a start I'd charge zero licensing fees for all third party retail releases for the first 12 months on all titles.

Zero licensing fees for all retail sports, teen, mature titles for year 2.

Reduced licensing fees for all teen and sports titles for year 3 & zero licensing fees for all mature titles for the lifespan of the console.

With someone like EA I'd probably try something like.. port all your releases to NX (with the above rules)..we'll allow EA access and only take a 10% cut.


There's no point in keeping licensing fees high if nobody is releasing titles for your system. Better to have the games and make minimal money,than have none of the games and make no money.

 

[SolidSnakex]

If the excuses given during the Wii U's run are anything to judge, yes.

What were the excuses there? That it was another underpowered and undesirable console?

 

[……forgetit]

Not unrealistic, but Nintendo has an uphill battle. They have to prove their new console is viable and make it competent enough technically to get ports. If you have on without they other it won't work. The Wii for example had great third party support, but it was always side games, spin offs and exclusives due to the PS360 being too intensive for the hardware.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

Imo in the beginning many developers will wait, if they'll see that nintendo did the right moves they will join.

But the problem with that is that games can take two or three years to actually get made, so even if the NX does well at launch, third parties will be looking to guess at the situation two or three years in the future. And unfortunately for Nintendo, ever since the N64, their consoles have a reputation for dropping off very quickly, and being a downright wasteland in the latter years of their lifespan.

 

[HyperZone<3]

2007-2010 saw dang near every significant and even minor publishers take a crack at the Wii's constantly exploding userbase. Sure, most of those games bombed ugly, but they sure did try. Any platform, any of them, that attains mass success will get support, yes, even ones made by Nintendo.

 

[Plinko]

Not unrealistic--IF Nintendo takes the proper steps to rebuild the bridges. Making a comparable power system as well as one that is easy to develop for would go a long way.

As somebody said in another thread, agreeing to allow EA Access on NX could do wonders for them fixing the rift with EA.

 

[Jawmuncher]

Not unrealistic, but you have to be careful with it. I bought a WiiU under the pretense that the third party support would be good. I'm not falling for that again until I see it with my own eyes.

 

[Simbabbad]

Microsoft and Sony are gigantic corporate monster. Nintendo is a toy company.

Yes, it's unrealistic, and I'm amazed some people still don't understand it'll never change. This is all obvious since the GameCube area.

Nintendo can attract independent developers, niche games/developers and family friendly games such as Lego or Disney games, but other than that, the industry has logically shaped itself around the huge fishes.

Even if Nintendo did what some airheads suggest, such as throwing money on powerful hardware sold at a loss and buying publishers, it won't change anything except ruin the company and put it out of business. It's like if you tried now to make an Internet search site competitor to Google to dethrone it - even if were better than Google, it wouldn't work because the industry has shaped itself around it. At best, you'd get bought by Google eventually.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

No, but Ninty will need to grease the wheels to make their platform a major destination for the level of support their competitors can be counted on to have. They need to spend some serious effort and money on matching services and features as well as key exclusives to kickstart their new platform. That or they need to find success in taking a different path the others aren't that gathers a huge consumer base to sell to, like Wii did.

 

[entremet]

I don't think so.

Nintendo just doesn't really want it honestly.

Look at the time, money and effort Sony/MS put for their 3rd party partners? It's insane compared to Nintendo.

Nintendo just doesn't try hard enough.

 

[El-Suave]

It is unrealistic when they launch mid cycle into a successful generation. Very few people are going to switch building their libraries unless NX is massively more powerful and 3rd parties would fully commit.

 

[Peltz]

It's realistic for it to have the same 3rd party support as the 3DS: mostly Japanese, smaller titles and not big AAA Western stuff.

 

[georly]

2007-2010 saw dang near every significant and even minor publishers take a crack at the Wii's constantly exploding userbase. Sure, most of those games bombed ugly, but they sure did try. Any platform, any of them, that attains mass success will get support, yes, even ones made by Nintendo.

Most of the games that bombed were either reductive ports of existing games or just uninteresting/unappealing games in general. Almost every time third party made a GOOD wii game, it did pretty well. Monster Hunter Tri, Boom Blox, to name a few. A lot of other good games that bombed did so by releasing really late in the Wii's life cycle, as well (once it was "collecting dust in closets.") They were also usually JRPGs, which for some reason were not doing all that well at the time, regardless of platform.

What were some GOOD third party games that bombed on the system? Zack and Wiki? I'm not sure that would have succeeded on ANY platform, despite being amazing.

 

[Jackano]

Ways nintendo can increase value without third party support (Past examples in parentheses):

• Increase number of first party titles by a great amount.
• Increase frequency of release of first party titles.
• Have valuable games available at launch (or within 30-60 days of launch). Zelda, Smash, 3D mario, etc.
• Demonstrate that plenty of highly anticipated titles are on the way (Mario Kart, Pikmin, etc).
• Create NEW IP that appeals to a both old and new fans (Splatoon)
• Moneyhat some 3rd party games (Bayonetta, W101, Monster hunter)
• License IP to 3rd party (Hyrule Warriors)
• Improve system-wide online features so that they have some parity with Sony/MS (Ease of porting AND appealing to consumers)

I will complete your list:

- Continue to make more use of amiibo (I hope they finally make that amiibo game, and I hope that's Sakurai that is doing it)
- Synergy with My Nintendo and mobile games (that is already part of the plan)
- Make more use of their backlog. You stated that obviously, they need mode 1st party games (and I'll add, more diverse games too), but they can also find more of those games in their past. VC needs to be completely re-thought. And NX handheld needs to become their definitive SD console, the Wii catalog represents a challenge because of the controls, but both DS/Wii libraries are strong assets they havn't been able to really use yet.

 

[120v]

it's been two decades since 3rd parties felt comfortable investing in nintendo consoles. two decades. lets just say it's not something you want to count on

 

[Kill3r7]

At this point the answer is yes. If Nintendo continues to release unconventional consoles then third parties will be apprehensive to support it. Nintendo needs to accommodate the big AAA shooters/MMO lite, GTA/Rockstar and Sports games. That means a modern online infrastructure, marketing deals and a console powerful enough to run these games. That said, they don't need third party support to be successful but it makes the path to success much, much harder.

 

[orioto]

It' always been a fake problem, in my personal opinion at least.

The truth is Nintendo doesn't want third parties. Nintendo fans wants them. Non Nintendo fans (the ones who didn't buy a traditional nintendo console in recent years) don't care at all. They have them already.

Third parties on Nintendo platforms is a problem for Nintendo fans who don't want to buy 2 consoles to have Nintendo games and AAA multi games. That means those guys already buy nintendo consoles. Having third party games on them will make them buy.. more games, or maybe buy less Nintendo games.. ? But it won't sell more consoles, not significantly.

A new nintendo customer, in that case, would be a guy who loves Nintendo games, but didn't buy past Nintendo consoles (so not that much, and if it's about Metroid or Zelda, it's not about third parties). That guy would suddenly think heyy i can have Battlefield or GTAV AND animal crossing or smash bros on the same platform (That's wrong, he doesn't want to play Animal Crossing or Smash Bros. He's perfectly fine not playing them, or he would have already bought a Nintendo console before).

So Battlefield or GTAV on Nintendo consoles are super great for guys with Nintendo consoles already, sure. But the legend is that guy who plays on PS4/XBO cause third parties are here but he's so sad he can't play Nintendo games. He'd like to buy a Nintendo consoles to play those games he likes, but nooo he can't cause he has to have a PS4. Seriously..

That guy will only buy a Nintendo consoles if it's better than the others, more powerful, cheaper, and has really mainstream, blockbuster Nintendo games that would then appeal to non Nintendo fans. This is always the same problem in the end. It's about Nintendo's offer, not third parties.

But that's just my opnion. I'm sure some people will say they are that guy who wants Nintendo games so bad but didn't buy a Nintendo consoles in the last 15 years.

 

[DownGrader]

It's realistic for it to have the same 3rd party support as the 3DS: mostly Japanese, smaller titles and not big AAA Western stuff.

Monster Hunter is "AAA" in anything but name. It is probably the most successful third-party property on Nintendo platforms since Final Fantasy in NES/SNES dyas.

 

[Bots are better than you]

First of all, Nintendo HAS to deliver a solid system to work with after 2 gens. The approach with Wii was understandable, the approach with Wii U wasn't at all.

Now, what is a solid system, and what is at least needed to work for it without a hassle? Hardware needs to be in a certain range of power, i'd think somewhere between PS4 and PS4K (but not as powerful as PS4K) should be manageable. Tools need to be up to the task, nothing (too) exotic. Engines, engine support is vital, with even indies starting to use/using UE4, and everyone and their cat do that too, you just need support for that. Solid online infrastructure, no-brainer.

Next, create initial demand via a combination of marketing (better than Wii U!), pricing and 1st party launch window games. That's also on Nintendo's side to do.

Some 3rds might want to have a little persuasion, don't know, offer to help with marketing, or localization for japanese 3rds. Paying for games wouldn't really help the situaton, imo.

In short, if Nintendo manages to "court" them in these areas, it's up to the 3rds.
Though, if we're talking about Wii U level quality of 3rd party support, it would be better to not really try at all. Less discussions.

 

[LiegeWaffle]

That depends on what kind of user base will NX attract and how it will be perceived by the publishers. Wii had a lot of third-party titles, it's just those were not the titles we actually wanted. And we don't know what NX will turn out to be.

 

[Barry Burton]

The suggestions in this thread are reasonable and doable, but...Nintendo isn't going to do any of that.

Of course it's unrealistic.

 

[Oersted]

Handheld console. No.

Home console. Varies on the console. Full support currently unlikely.

 

[2+2=5]

But the problem with that is that games can take two or three years to actually get made, so even if the NX does well at launch, third parties will be looking to guess at the situation two or three years in the future. And unfortunately for Nintendo, ever since the N64, their consoles have a reputation for dropping off very quickly, and being a downright wasteland in the latter years of their lifespan.

That's the reason why Nintendo has to moneyhat developers as much as possible in the beginning, regaining third party support won't be easy or cheap, but it's not impossible.

 

[zoukka]

Nintendo has a long and a hard road ahead of them in terms of attracting 3rd party support on their future platforms. It's not gonna happen quickly.

 

[Neoxon]

Japanese & indie third party support, no. Western support, yes (until Nintendo proves that they can attract a core gaming audience).

 

[Bots are better than you]

Nintendo has a long and a hard road ahead of them in terms of attracting 3rd party support on their future platforms. It's not gonna happen quickly.

Yeah, this too. Missed that in my post.

Honestly, if Nintendo manages to get the big annual IPs from the western 3rds through NX's whole lifetime, it would already be one big improvement. And that's also what Nintendo should aim for with NX.
A change of mind could happen if they manage to pull through a gen without any (big) drawbacks and/or fuck-ups.

 

[jroc74]

I dont think its unrealistic to expect it. I dont think anyone making gaming systems expect to go at it almost alone.

But...at this point maybe it is unrealistic for fans, gamers. Better to think that way and be pleasantly surprised than to hope for 3rd party support and be disappointed.

 

[Peltz]

Monster Hunter is "AAA" in anything but name. It is probably the most successful third-party property on Nintendo platforms since Final Fantasy in NES/SNES dyas.

I didn't mean to discredit any game by my use of "AAA."

I agree with you that Monster Hunter is 100% as important as any other big series these days.

 

[georly]

I will complete your list:

- Continue to make more use of amiibo (I hope they finally make that amiibo game, and I hope that's Sakurai that is doing it)
- Synergy with My Nintendo and mobile games (that is already part of the plan)
- Make more use of their backlog. You stated that obviously, they need mode 1st party games (and I'll add, more diverse games too), but they can also find more of those games in their past. VC needs to be completely re-thought. And NX handheld needs to become their definitive SD console, the Wii catalog represents a challenge because of the controls, but both DS/Wii libraries are strong assets they havn't been able to really use yet.

Amiibo is a nice money cushion, but letting 3rd party use/make amiibo could help. Cloud Amiibo in FF7 remake to unlock something dumb and cosmetic, or fill your limit meter once a day or something.

Mynintendo will help a lot, but they need to let 3rd party games do something more than give you gold coins for purchases. Mynintendo is what will keep users ENGAGED in their ecosystem, if it works as intended (it isn't, so far). Having a highly engaged userbase is INCREDIBLY appealing to 3rd party, I imagine.

And yeah, I didn't even mention eshop/virtual console, but improving that can definitely make the system seem more valuable. A huge huge huge VC library that is cross-buy and cross-play could be a system seller on its own, for some.

 

[Madao]

Nintendo has never had actual earned third party support on consoles.

they had their NES support through monopolies and cheap tactics. as soon as a competitor came (Sega with the Genesis), they started hemorrhaging support like a pool made of Swiss cheese.
this is probably karma for that and they don't have what it takes to earn big name third party support.

 

[Boogdud]

Yes, it's unrealistic. With PSBOX there is a whole lot less resistance to support 3rd party. The platforms are basically parallel. If Nintendo decides that they want to change their focus from unique (not necessarily better, mind you) control schemes and peripherals, then maybe they'd get more 3rd party support.

Nobody wants to put in twice the work, for 1/4 the sales.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

Yes, it's unrealistic. Not impossible, but unrealistic at this stage.

Other systems have tied people into their ecosystems with smart forward planning, and Nintendo's slow shuffle towards now industry standards have left them perceived as a novelty (nay, antiquated) secondary system or a box for fans of Nintendo first party games only.

I'm sure a certain type of third party will show up, namely those who make titles that broadly mirror Nintendo's design philosophies, but as for the big Western publishers, those are increasingly looking at not just sales - which a large user base may prove tempting for - but the model of continued engagement with their titles and revenue through multiplayer and DLC etc. It's just not associated with Nintendo at this point.

They don't merely need a big user base, they need to change people's perception of them whilst still maintaining what others like. That's a tough task, and one of the reasons many wanted details of the NX sooner rather than later, as it'll take time to get that information across. If they're going for a short marketing run-in to maximise hype and shift a load of first party launch titles, then third party support will remain thin on the ground.

 

[Mithos]

Japanese & indie third party support, no. Western support, yes (until Nintendo proves that they can attract a core gaming audience).

HOW, by making their OWN "versions/variants" of the games that western third parties not release on Nintendo platforms?
Well guess what, then Nintendo will sell their versions of the game, and when third-parties think well now is the time THEIR games will not sell because Nintendo have already their own IPs covering those genres.

 

[KingSnake]

Western 3rd parties, pretty much yes, unless Nintendo will be suddenly willing to invest into this collaboration and the reason is very simple, there is not too much overlapping between Nintendo fan base (at least the early adopters) and Western 3rd parties primary targeted audience. And the said audience won't buy a Nintendo console because there is no guaranteed 3rd party support, so it's a vicious circle. Which Nintendo could try to break if they would be willing to invest in this through co-marketing deals, discounts for licensing fees, console bundles etc.

I think Nintendo doesn't really want to play that game for whatever reason, so their only other option for them to be successful (to an extent) is to go the cheaper console way which could target both usual Nintendo audience and the mainstream gamer audience (as a second console just for exclusives). This is the way I think Nintendo will go and this means very reduced support from western 3rd parties.

 

[jroc74]

Nintendo has never had actual earned third party support on consoles.

they had their NES support through monopolies and cheap tactics. as soon as a competitor came (Sega with the Genesis), they started hemorrhaging support like a pool made of Swiss cheese.
this is probably karma for that and they don't have what it takes to earn big name third party support.

Whenever I read this thinking back some things made sense. Like Madden always playing and IMO looking better on Sega consoles.

Yes, it's unrealistic. Not impossible, but unrealistic at this stage.

Other systems have tied people into their ecosystems with smart forward planning, and Nintendo's slow shuffle towards now industry standards have left them perceived as a novelty (nay, antiquated) secondary system or a box for fans of Nintendo first party games only.

I'm sure a certain type of third party will show up, namely those who make titles that broadly mirror Nintendo's design philosophies, but as for the big Western publishers, those are increasingly looking at not just sales - which a large user base may prove tempting for - but the model of continued engagement with their titles and revenue through multiplayer and DLC etc. It's just not associated with Nintendo at this point.

They don't merely need a big user base, they need to change people's perception of them whilst still maintaining what others like. That's a tough task, and one of the reasons many wanted details of the NX sooner rather than later, as it'll take time to get that information across. If they're going for a short marketing run-in to maximise hype and shift a load of first party launch titles, then third party support will remain thin on the ground.

I think this is huge. Ecosystems play a big part for some, many ppl. Even with smartphones, tablets I would get an Android tablet first just because of eco systems. (I have an Android phone) Android or Surface tablets. But an iPad would be last on my list to not even a thought.

Eco system.

I would wager many ppl dont switch mobile platforms that much just because of eco systems. Or how you see some complaining about WP/Win Mo because of lack of apps, their apps they want. Just because of the many free apps on Android it makes it easier to switch to another platform. Those coming from iPhone to Android have to weigh the cost of iOS apps they will give up that they purchased. Thats like throwing money away.