-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Is Final Fantasy shooting for irrelevance?
- Thread starter U5230
- Start date
- Status
I'll admit it - I haven't read this thread from start to finish, but the biggest problem that Square faces with Final Fantasy XIII and subsequent entries is simple (from my view, at least):
They take too fucking long to come out.
When you go from these coming out every year to one coming out every 3 years or so (even bigger jumps if you don't account for the MMO, which I'm sure tons of gamers ignore). It's great for building hype - a little too great. Hype simply spirals out of control, and 3D Final Fantasy has never been about consistency - they've always experimented with a different battle system/style of game. However, the further you space out these games, the more damaging its going to be to the brand, simply because if gamers don't like it, then they have to wait another 3/4 years before they even get a different style of game that they might like. Not to mention, Square is announcing these titles way too fucking early and taking too long on these titles - when you announce FFXIII in 2006, people are simply going to assume (for good reason), you'd assume some work is already done on the project, and that you've probably been working on the game for around SIX YEARS. When you work on something that long, you expect the best fucking game you've ever played, and then some. Then add on the fact that there is considerably more competition than there was when installments like FFVII or FFX came out, and it's no surprise why people might have slightly higher expectations.
Not to mention that Square simply can't afford to allow their sales to decline, even slightly, simply because development costs have been skyrocketing. I mean, just the sheer computing time/power to render the cutscenes for FFXIII is probably exponentially higher for FFX/XII, let alone the actual "game" part.
They take too fucking long to come out.
When you go from these coming out every year to one coming out every 3 years or so (even bigger jumps if you don't account for the MMO, which I'm sure tons of gamers ignore). It's great for building hype - a little too great. Hype simply spirals out of control, and 3D Final Fantasy has never been about consistency - they've always experimented with a different battle system/style of game. However, the further you space out these games, the more damaging its going to be to the brand, simply because if gamers don't like it, then they have to wait another 3/4 years before they even get a different style of game that they might like. Not to mention, Square is announcing these titles way too fucking early and taking too long on these titles - when you announce FFXIII in 2006, people are simply going to assume (for good reason), you'd assume some work is already done on the project, and that you've probably been working on the game for around SIX YEARS. When you work on something that long, you expect the best fucking game you've ever played, and then some. Then add on the fact that there is considerably more competition than there was when installments like FFVII or FFX came out, and it's no surprise why people might have slightly higher expectations.
Not to mention that Square simply can't afford to allow their sales to decline, even slightly, simply because development costs have been skyrocketing. I mean, just the sheer computing time/power to render the cutscenes for FFXIII is probably exponentially higher for FFX/XII, let alone the actual "game" part.
I could and have designed a better FF game then the pap that they've come up with.
Big boast, but if they could have some sort of brain reading visualizer-matronic... then you'd see something pretty interesting.
Suffice it to say, it involves the theme of duality; The player plays the part of an elite soldier and his captain/best friend (who later gets kidnapped; doesn't return to the player). They're part of a expeditionary group in the first interstellar space ship.
Said space ship warps, of course, to the main planet of our setting; they've come from a high tech world, but this planet is medieval FF style, but with magic. The planet's moon is this big blue glowing/ocean thing with many big blue sea serpent/dragon things flitting through it; one of them leaps up and smashes through the expeditionary force, causing the ship to crash on the planet below (why doesn't it crash into the moon??).
The player's journey starts in earnest there, with just the two soldiers, armed with a couple of guns, swords and motorbikes. They travel around kicking ass, until they run out of ammo and fuel in short order. They find a continent filled with strife; one large country is out kicking everyone's ass; but you've landed at the furthest point away from them.
That large country is actually ruled by an immortal man, whose talents and abilities towers above all. He's not an evil guy, but his ultimate aim does involve an Evangelion style transcendance (i.e. everyone dies, joins together into a great glowing ball of energy - of course this isn't known until much later). At first he appears to be a ruthless conqueror, but a benevolent dictator (i.e. once conquered, quality of life for the conquered people improve dramatically).
Player makes his way through the continent, fighting back the forces of this emperor/ruler, making his way through Five Star Story style elite guards... confronts the emperor, who soundly kicks his ass, kidnaps his friend/captain. Emperor babbles something about a great change coming, and this will only be the first half. In fact, he intends on merging this world with the world that the soldier came from. 'Opening a portal to the ****'
Player chases him for a short period of time, before coming to the site at which the ritual is occuring; he's too late to stop it, and he catches a glimpse of his friend, who appears to have been brain washed, and is following the emperor and few followers into a portal; this portal triggers a chain reaction destroying the planet... in fact causing the planet to merge with his old planet.
Cut to a scene where the player has washed up on an unfamiliar beach; this is the new world; a synthesis of the one he was on and his own planet... it contains magic and high technology.
As he gathers his senses and makes sense of what's happened, he learns he's been thrust into this new world, moreover, finds that his arrival is a few years after the worlds formation, and among the last of his companions to arrive.
Among the stuff that's different is that the game includes five star story/xenogear style robot battles. Eventually, the player will come to acquire a massive airship capable of housing a squad of these giant-robos in comfort.
The player will also be able to use the airship to teleport back to (back and forth really) the medieval world; only at a much earlier time than before. This world is primarily optional, and is mainly used to house the tough challenges, including the strongest enemies and the best weapons.
The player eventually depending on his actions throughout the game finds his friend, or confronts him... either way, he dies... and the last boss fight starts, with a multi-stage boss fight (as most FF games have had); the player also levels up multistage... and at the end we get a vision of what has been denied; the transcendance of all living creatures... and what is to come; the possibilities and opportunities granted by continued independence and the continuance of the 'human condition'.
Of course, this game will involve overworlds and towns, unlike the weak sauce pap that we've had to deal with for the last 5 or so iterations.
The RPG system would be a combination of gambit party AI, ARPG (Folklore style), with a Diablo 2/WoW talent style levelling system, equipment would consist of main body (changes character apperance) + several accessories. Weapons would have a few variations; primarily using character stats to multiply with the weapon power, but slight upgrades would be available. Also the player would be able to junction runes/materia to weapons to add/improve characteristics.
There would've been several difficulties for the game that would've dramatically altered gameplay experience; easy would've been for players that kinda just wanted to see the story, and not have to level up beyond fighting the least amount of enemies, with the least amount of challenge. The optional hard world wouldn't have been accessible. Enemies would scale down to the player's level, but if they did level, wouldn't scale past a certain point.
Normal difficulty would've been for the standard FF player. Normal scaling, normal access. And hard mode would've scaled in the opposite manner; enemies wouldn't scale down to players, but would scale up to meet players (although not in such a way that you'd never feel like you weren't progressing). Enemy AI routines would also be improved; rules for battles would change; groups would be larger, more diverse; group patterns picked to enhance the enemy group abilities. Essentially designed to give the Red Scarlets of the world a bit of fun. Maybe some additional colour palette swapped opponents thrown into the optional world, for additional variety.
Finally, would've had an optional dating sim style game thrown in for good measure. Forget Mass Effect's and Dragon Age's generally awkward dialogue based romance... this would've provided the player with multiple ways to romance the multiple girls. For example, one would be romanced through gifts, another through surrendipity, another through a typical needs based indicator, while another would've just been through traditional dialogue.
I even pictured tasteful 'in bed' scenes to indicate the success, where the characters would've been naked, and even nipples would be shown, except it would've been all steeped in shadows and silhouettes.
I actually wrote 100 pages on this design, but never got around to making it cohesive enough to bother 'publishing'... but that was me about 10 years ago now... It's fun to see how many of the ideas I thought of then have since been used in other games and in FF too... and it's also a bit sad to see that a lot of the ideas I had then can still be considered ground breaking (if they were to be incorporated into a big RPG game).
*edit* Couple other elements I have recalled
Characters all centered around the 20-30 y.o. age group. Only one teenager, and a couple of mid 30 y.o characters, including a 35 y.o warrior princess which is also a potential love interest for the main character.
A guardian force junctioning system ripped off from FFVIII (and now FFXIII).
And also a much improved limit break system; similar to FFXI in that you could accrue more limit break than a single move, unlike FFXI, these limit breaks would store like stock cubes (3 max), quite similar to the super bar in many capcom fighting games...
Could use varying number of stocks for varying purposes; stat/ability powerup, special move, summoning, merging with the guardian force, or just a traditional guardian force blow out/power move.
Big boast, but if they could have some sort of brain reading visualizer-matronic... then you'd see something pretty interesting.
Suffice it to say, it involves the theme of duality; The player plays the part of an elite soldier and his captain/best friend (who later gets kidnapped; doesn't return to the player). They're part of a expeditionary group in the first interstellar space ship.
Said space ship warps, of course, to the main planet of our setting; they've come from a high tech world, but this planet is medieval FF style, but with magic. The planet's moon is this big blue glowing/ocean thing with many big blue sea serpent/dragon things flitting through it; one of them leaps up and smashes through the expeditionary force, causing the ship to crash on the planet below (why doesn't it crash into the moon??).
The player's journey starts in earnest there, with just the two soldiers, armed with a couple of guns, swords and motorbikes. They travel around kicking ass, until they run out of ammo and fuel in short order. They find a continent filled with strife; one large country is out kicking everyone's ass; but you've landed at the furthest point away from them.
That large country is actually ruled by an immortal man, whose talents and abilities towers above all. He's not an evil guy, but his ultimate aim does involve an Evangelion style transcendance (i.e. everyone dies, joins together into a great glowing ball of energy - of course this isn't known until much later). At first he appears to be a ruthless conqueror, but a benevolent dictator (i.e. once conquered, quality of life for the conquered people improve dramatically).
Player makes his way through the continent, fighting back the forces of this emperor/ruler, making his way through Five Star Story style elite guards... confronts the emperor, who soundly kicks his ass, kidnaps his friend/captain. Emperor babbles something about a great change coming, and this will only be the first half. In fact, he intends on merging this world with the world that the soldier came from. 'Opening a portal to the ****'
Player chases him for a short period of time, before coming to the site at which the ritual is occuring; he's too late to stop it, and he catches a glimpse of his friend, who appears to have been brain washed, and is following the emperor and few followers into a portal; this portal triggers a chain reaction destroying the planet... in fact causing the planet to merge with his old planet.
Cut to a scene where the player has washed up on an unfamiliar beach; this is the new world; a synthesis of the one he was on and his own planet... it contains magic and high technology.
As he gathers his senses and makes sense of what's happened, he learns he's been thrust into this new world, moreover, finds that his arrival is a few years after the worlds formation, and among the last of his companions to arrive.
Among the stuff that's different is that the game includes five star story/xenogear style robot battles. Eventually, the player will come to acquire a massive airship capable of housing a squad of these giant-robos in comfort.
The player will also be able to use the airship to teleport back to (back and forth really) the medieval world; only at a much earlier time than before. This world is primarily optional, and is mainly used to house the tough challenges, including the strongest enemies and the best weapons.
The player eventually depending on his actions throughout the game finds his friend, or confronts him... either way, he dies... and the last boss fight starts, with a multi-stage boss fight (as most FF games have had); the player also levels up multistage... and at the end we get a vision of what has been denied; the transcendance of all living creatures... and what is to come; the possibilities and opportunities granted by continued independence and the continuance of the 'human condition'.
Of course, this game will involve overworlds and towns, unlike the weak sauce pap that we've had to deal with for the last 5 or so iterations.
The RPG system would be a combination of gambit party AI, ARPG (Folklore style), with a Diablo 2/WoW talent style levelling system, equipment would consist of main body (changes character apperance) + several accessories. Weapons would have a few variations; primarily using character stats to multiply with the weapon power, but slight upgrades would be available. Also the player would be able to junction runes/materia to weapons to add/improve characteristics.
There would've been several difficulties for the game that would've dramatically altered gameplay experience; easy would've been for players that kinda just wanted to see the story, and not have to level up beyond fighting the least amount of enemies, with the least amount of challenge. The optional hard world wouldn't have been accessible. Enemies would scale down to the player's level, but if they did level, wouldn't scale past a certain point.
Normal difficulty would've been for the standard FF player. Normal scaling, normal access. And hard mode would've scaled in the opposite manner; enemies wouldn't scale down to players, but would scale up to meet players (although not in such a way that you'd never feel like you weren't progressing). Enemy AI routines would also be improved; rules for battles would change; groups would be larger, more diverse; group patterns picked to enhance the enemy group abilities. Essentially designed to give the Red Scarlets of the world a bit of fun. Maybe some additional colour palette swapped opponents thrown into the optional world, for additional variety.
Finally, would've had an optional dating sim style game thrown in for good measure. Forget Mass Effect's and Dragon Age's generally awkward dialogue based romance... this would've provided the player with multiple ways to romance the multiple girls. For example, one would be romanced through gifts, another through surrendipity, another through a typical needs based indicator, while another would've just been through traditional dialogue.
I even pictured tasteful 'in bed' scenes to indicate the success, where the characters would've been naked, and even nipples would be shown, except it would've been all steeped in shadows and silhouettes.
I actually wrote 100 pages on this design, but never got around to making it cohesive enough to bother 'publishing'... but that was me about 10 years ago now... It's fun to see how many of the ideas I thought of then have since been used in other games and in FF too... and it's also a bit sad to see that a lot of the ideas I had then can still be considered ground breaking (if they were to be incorporated into a big RPG game).
*edit* Couple other elements I have recalled
Characters all centered around the 20-30 y.o. age group. Only one teenager, and a couple of mid 30 y.o characters, including a 35 y.o warrior princess which is also a potential love interest for the main character.
A guardian force junctioning system ripped off from FFVIII (and now FFXIII).
And also a much improved limit break system; similar to FFXI in that you could accrue more limit break than a single move, unlike FFXI, these limit breaks would store like stock cubes (3 max), quite similar to the super bar in many capcom fighting games...
Could use varying number of stocks for varying purposes; stat/ability powerup, special move, summoning, merging with the guardian force, or just a traditional guardian force blow out/power move.
I'm repeating myself but FF has been dead for maybe 15 years now. People just don't know it yet !
_It died a little when Nomura (and others) gave the game a teenage / anime feeling in FFVII. The game is great and all, it's a fucking masterpiece regarding today's standards, but it was already a shot in the serie's soul.
_It died a little more when FFVIII abandoned the multiple characters style to focus on a love story. + Nomura began the bland and ridiculous chara collection and we had the first shiny white scifi design for little girl.
_FFIX was a fake resurrection. Multiple characters and good art indeed, but it was focused on the child market, maybe to fight DQ7 at this time.
_FFX killed definitely the serie, artistically. Nomura bland charas all over the places, love story, bad taste, too folkloric, Rikku voice from hell, Hero is a tanned surfer, boring script focused on pompous mythological bullshit, so slow... No homogeneity in music anymore, with other compos not having the Uematsu style and ways of actually making an area breath emotionally... Uematsu was FF's soul since the beginning.
_FFXII was a good game, but not a FF in any aspect... Script was kinda on the mature side, but not the good one. It was on the political scifi wanking style. Star Wars etc...
The good FF style is mature charas with burlesque and poetic problems. Just look at FFVI or IV. You've got a 40 years old man who lost his wife in a spaceship bet and look for a replacement, an autistic little girl who wanted to paint monsters, a knight lost in sadness after his wife and son poisoned... All that was so mature, and yet so abstract and poetic.
Abstraction is dead anyway, videogames lost their faculty of enchantment a long time ago .. Then you had so much originality, fantasy and maturity in some kiddy graphics, now you got poor man's starwars/evangelion plot with philosophical wanking as a bonus and soooooooo serious.
And yes, i only talked about art.
_It died a little when Nomura (and others) gave the game a teenage / anime feeling in FFVII. The game is great and all, it's a fucking masterpiece regarding today's standards, but it was already a shot in the serie's soul.
_It died a little more when FFVIII abandoned the multiple characters style to focus on a love story. + Nomura began the bland and ridiculous chara collection and we had the first shiny white scifi design for little girl.
_FFIX was a fake resurrection. Multiple characters and good art indeed, but it was focused on the child market, maybe to fight DQ7 at this time.
_FFX killed definitely the serie, artistically. Nomura bland charas all over the places, love story, bad taste, too folkloric, Rikku voice from hell, Hero is a tanned surfer, boring script focused on pompous mythological bullshit, so slow... No homogeneity in music anymore, with other compos not having the Uematsu style and ways of actually making an area breath emotionally... Uematsu was FF's soul since the beginning.
_FFXII was a good game, but not a FF in any aspect... Script was kinda on the mature side, but not the good one. It was on the political scifi wanking style. Star Wars etc...
The good FF style is mature charas with burlesque and poetic problems. Just look at FFVI or IV. You've got a 40 years old man who lost his wife in a spaceship bet and look for a replacement, an autistic little girl who wanted to paint monsters, a knight lost in sadness after his wife and son poisoned... All that was so mature, and yet so abstract and poetic.
Abstraction is dead anyway, videogames lost their faculty of enchantment a long time ago .. Then you had so much originality, fantasy and maturity in some kiddy graphics, now you got poor man's starwars/evangelion plot with philosophical wanking as a bonus and soooooooo serious.
And yes, i only talked about art.
Pureauthor
Member
hsukardi said:
The guy who choked when actually developing a mainline FF game is better than the other guys who successfully developed mainline FF games?
What?
Pureauthor said:
If you believe it as GAF tells it; it would seem the guy got extremely frustrated at the direction that was imposed on him; i.e. vaan-centricize it, and make ending more traditional FF. "No one wants to play a game with a 40y.o. lead, and a story of political power struggle."
RedAssedApe
Banned
And yet you all keep buying them... :lol
NeonZ
Member
"Just look at"? Those are the only examples that fit your description, and out of those 2, FFIV aged badly, because it took itself more seriously than it should have.
I'd like the series more if it had stayed story-light, like FFV, but after the Enix acquisition, that's basically impossible for a main game because it'd step on DQ's shoes.
badcrumble
Member
Square giveth, and Square-Enix taketh away.Kuraudo said:
NemesisPrime
Banned
jett said:
This.
JRPGs devs really need to take some time off and focus on how to bring their games into the next decade. Personally I think JRPGs died 10 years ago and I also think they can make a great comeback if handled correctly. Lets hope so...
Red Scarlet
Member
badcrumble said:
Matsuno was taking too long.
Urban Scholar
Member
Red Scarlet said:
I don't know the specifics but keeping in line with the theme of thread here. I take it Matsuno burned out due the the gravity of the project catch up with him?
Red Scarlet
Member
I dunno, maybe. Wasn't 12 revealed the same time as 10 and 11? And it was 6 years between 10's release (or 5? 2000/2001-2006), which was almost double the time previously for any release.
plus I don't really like Matsuno
Urban Scholar
Member
Red Scarlet said:
Ahh, a shame on all accounts then.
How About No
Member
ElFly said:
Oh yeah, FFVI definitely began the trend of cinematic FFs in the series. You can tell by all the neat Mode 7 effects and overall direction that goes beyond what FFIV and FFV did.
You can get a bit of a Proto-FFVII vibe from it...
Red Scarlet
Member
Urban Scholar said:
It wasn't a disaster either way really at the end of it all. Matsuno folks got a game, non-Matsuno folks got a game, there's still lots of games to play no matter if it was liked or not. I bought the game twice and don't like it much! Still looking for that 3rd.
Urban Scholar
Member
Red Scarlet said:
Given your time with original JP and zodiac releases I suppose better late than never.
Magicks
ElFly said:
Even if simple, you can just feel the difference in charas between the 4 and the modern ones for example. And that's not only a question of stories. Uematsu 's music and Amano's art added a lot to the thing. There was a particular tone, it's obvious.
But ok i'll give you that. Maybe it wasn't so consistent, even in the post 7 era. Let's say FFVI is the end of an evolution in the serie, that made all the artists give their best in a really original and free spirit. Then it changed direction.
Red Scarlet
Member
Urban Scholar said:
Yeah I played the English one, don't like the 'ck' stuff. Looking for a sealed US copy.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
orioto said:
You can't say VII wasn't an evolution.
If FFXV is announced tomorrow (coupled with screens and a CG video) the NeoGaf thread will be easily over 30 pages, the gaming media will be all abuzz and the japanese will go out in the street and celebrate (ok last part maybe not).
Point is, its irrelevant until people dont care. As it is, people very much care about Final Fantasy.
Point is, its irrelevant until people dont care. As it is, people very much care about Final Fantasy.
badcrumble
Member
You can't rush an artist!Red Scarlet said:
Blackace said:
I kind of support this. I guess it'll will be difficult to have a marriage of the two general design philosophies.
Final Fantasy is not shooting for irrelevancy. Whether or not it has become irrelevant is largely dependent on how you take it, although I would like to point out that relevancy and popularity are two distinct values.
I think the series became relevant after FF7, because the manner in which it sold millions encouraged other companies to emulate the gameplay and storytelling model set forth by 7. However, 8 and 9 largely follows the same model, so it's safe to say the series' relevancy declined. What makes X and X-2 relevant (and they do need to be put together) is how they attempted a direct sequel of a game reusing a ton of old assets: in other words, the relevancy comes from the business model. I can't think of another JRPG that tried this approach of using old assets as flagrantly as they did in X-2, but I think it would help decrease development time and cost if they do.
I have not played XI so I cannot comment intelligently, but I imagine XI's relevancy speaks for itself with XIV: it pumps enough money into SE to get them to fund a second one. As a model for other MMO developers, however, XI has little relevancy, given that WoW is the 800-pound gorilla that all other MMOs strive to imitate or starkly distinguish from.
XII is actually an irrelevant game. Largely due to the departure of its director and the sad fact that the main series will most likely never pick up that kind of gameplay style and refine it. Japanese developers also do not seem to take it as a model for anything, and Western developers have gone their own route. XII, however, is most likely the closest we'll get to a "Westernese RPG with Japanese art".
XIII is a very relevant game. How so? As a prime example of what NOT to do. Developers from both sides will look at it and say no: the JP side because the model is not profitable (and other reasons) and the Western side because the blatant linearity and style is repulsive to the concepts of freedom to the player. Even if new players buy it, XIII will never engender that kind of legendary nostalgia VII has because there are already better games on the market. I don't doubt for a second that the money put into Crystal Tools will be recouped through XIV, but the development model for XIII is not something even SE should like to attempt again.
Relevancy is not something entirely defined by consumers. I may be viewing this from a strange angle, but I think relevancy is a matter of how a game's development and execution can be used as an example for other developers to see how to get better. Games don't "shoot for" irrelevancy, it's just a natural result from circumstance and the market.
tl;dr Not irrelevant but not relevant.
Urban Scholar
Member
badcrumble said:
Honestly this made me :lol
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Red Scarlet said:
I could be wrong, but I think that it was 9 that was revealed alongside 10 and 11, but that was such a long time ago. I think they showed that early art for 12 a bit later, then it was years before they showed anything else.
Segata Sanshiro
Member
Look, no one here is blaming Noruma.HK-47 said:
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
7Th said:
Nothing, huh?
Urban Scholar said:
It's likely that he constantly clashed with management over the game's design and milestones. The game was delayed well past its original 2003 release date. Perhaps, the whole illness shtick was a way for him to get the hell out of the game and company and be replaced by a less 'belligerent' director?
It's also possible that Matsuno's appointment as director of FFXII was controversial in the company since Mr. Window Seat Sakaguichi originally supported him (and Itou) as the leads for FFXII.
gamergirly
Member
Red Scarlet said:
Yeah, I remember somebody using Family Guy to make a theme for FF12 talking about characters and stories and how much time it takes :lol
Final Fantasy is going to face down big problems.
The whole jRPG genre is facing tough competition from the west (Bioware/Bethesda etc).
Its also taking a bad direction because they are focusing on graphics, thus having bigger costs, longer production times for something that is not a priority for most people.
The priority for most jRPG players is gameplay depht, customization, story, lore and character development that was always so "in depth" because of the "linear" story that you didn't have in all those 20000 quests for wRPGs. But now, they are giving us no story, no depth, all in favor to graphics. Its obvious that everyone will be moving out to wRPGs in the near future if things continue to go this way.
I really dont understand how Square Enix haven't figured this out. FFXIII gameplay is nice and fast, but the customization is mediocre. You only have 3 stats and people who have played the game knows how you are "forced" and "locked" with the Crystarium. The story is also really mediocre and chliched, lets not talk about character development.
They only gem with this game is the graphics and the CGI. At this point, turn the FF serie into a Film saga, and nearly nothing will change.
The whole jRPG genre is facing tough competition from the west (Bioware/Bethesda etc).
Its also taking a bad direction because they are focusing on graphics, thus having bigger costs, longer production times for something that is not a priority for most people.
The priority for most jRPG players is gameplay depht, customization, story, lore and character development that was always so "in depth" because of the "linear" story that you didn't have in all those 20000 quests for wRPGs. But now, they are giving us no story, no depth, all in favor to graphics. Its obvious that everyone will be moving out to wRPGs in the near future if things continue to go this way.
I really dont understand how Square Enix haven't figured this out. FFXIII gameplay is nice and fast, but the customization is mediocre. You only have 3 stats and people who have played the game knows how you are "forced" and "locked" with the Crystarium. The story is also really mediocre and chliched, lets not talk about character development.
They only gem with this game is the graphics and the CGI. At this point, turn the FF serie into a Film saga, and nearly nothing will change.
Widge said:
http://www.psy-q.ch/mirrors/thegia/sites/www.thegia.com/news/0001/n29a.html
This is really the only info I could find. Looks like it was early 2000 and they announced, IX, X, XI, Playonline, and the movie.
Besides, if they fired Matsuno because he was taking too long, by that logic, everyone who worked on XIII/Versus should be fired too. Or maybe they'll be alright because the character designs seem more mainstream than FFXII.
To be honest, I'm not convinced that XII would've been this magically awesome masterpiece if Matsuno had stayed on through the whole thing. I loved the game, but even from the beginning it had flaws.
To be honest, I'm not convinced that XII would've been this magically awesome masterpiece if Matsuno had stayed on through the whole thing. I loved the game, but even from the beginning it had flaws.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
jjasper said:
Yeah, that's where I saw it too, way back when. I forgot about the whole online aspect of 10 that never came to be.
SecretBonusPoint
Banned
What would it take to revolutionise the management in Square Enix? Thats clearly one of the main issues with development, because FF13 just doesn't seem to be the sum of a 4 year year development cycle at all. All throughout development there was nonsense about switching tools, tools not having been correctly annotated and what seems to be some straight up design confusion. The bloat of HD development hasn't been matched with management talent, and even then portable titles have also taken a ridiculous amount of time to materialise as well. Partner this with the archaic inability to joint develop both japanese and english versions and you have the entire recipe of a stagnated development company.
Someone also has to reign in the CG autism of things like Cocoon and whatnot being these ridiculously complex rendered places that are created at the expense of actual game content. For every tendril of garish plastic and techno organic piping through holographic terminals with runes and shit on them thats assets from a cabin hut village cut and so forth. Theres just no economical use of development time going on, and CG just shouldnt be a focus anymore either.
The simplicity of their 16-bit games is the key to what enabled them to actually make games efficiently, and even then the CG useage in the 32 bit games also served a purpose. With 16-bit they made the sprites and thats the entire game's storytelling and gameplay visual mechanisms right there. With 32 bit, 3d renders of environments used as static backgrounds or also as part of the FMV sequences (often using 3d models overlaid for action scenes). And the move into full 3D for them has just never been met with the well thought out asset creation required. Even FF12 suffered from a terrible Copy and Paste The Same Floor X 10 syndrome.
The comparisons to other genres often getting thrown out from fans is wrong as well. Assassins Creed 2 created giant portions of Italy with wide open fields in Tuscany to the complexity of Venice. Now they even had to do so and make it all gameplay with collision detection and platforming design in place. You can't have a fucking huge budget dev team like FF13's turn round and say shit like "Towns are hard..." 4 years later when we're into the 2nd iterations of HD games pushing a lot more.
What about FF13 took 4-5 years? What about FF12 took 6 years? What about Crisis Core took 3-4 years? S-E needs such a fucking shake up its crazy. And I don't see them doing it either until they run into real serious trouble down the line.
Someone also has to reign in the CG autism of things like Cocoon and whatnot being these ridiculously complex rendered places that are created at the expense of actual game content. For every tendril of garish plastic and techno organic piping through holographic terminals with runes and shit on them thats assets from a cabin hut village cut and so forth. Theres just no economical use of development time going on, and CG just shouldnt be a focus anymore either.
The simplicity of their 16-bit games is the key to what enabled them to actually make games efficiently, and even then the CG useage in the 32 bit games also served a purpose. With 16-bit they made the sprites and thats the entire game's storytelling and gameplay visual mechanisms right there. With 32 bit, 3d renders of environments used as static backgrounds or also as part of the FMV sequences (often using 3d models overlaid for action scenes). And the move into full 3D for them has just never been met with the well thought out asset creation required. Even FF12 suffered from a terrible Copy and Paste The Same Floor X 10 syndrome.
The comparisons to other genres often getting thrown out from fans is wrong as well. Assassins Creed 2 created giant portions of Italy with wide open fields in Tuscany to the complexity of Venice. Now they even had to do so and make it all gameplay with collision detection and platforming design in place. You can't have a fucking huge budget dev team like FF13's turn round and say shit like "Towns are hard..." 4 years later when we're into the 2nd iterations of HD games pushing a lot more.
What about FF13 took 4-5 years? What about FF12 took 6 years? What about Crisis Core took 3-4 years? S-E needs such a fucking shake up its crazy. And I don't see them doing it either until they run into real serious trouble down the line.
HamPster PamPster
Member
Still can't believe there are level caps in 13. I don't remember who said in the impressions thread but once the world opens up the level cap doesn't so you could be doing hunts and not actually be able to level up unless you progress the story to a higher level then backtrack to the hunts. Has anyone on gaf EVER said "I LOVE level caps"
Also, what is the point of a weapon upgrade system based on money if you can't get money? The game decides at certain story points to give you money... why not just give you the weapons too?
For all the complaints about 13, I wish more of it was about the actual systems in the game that don't seem to work. The above has me much more worried about my playthrough then whether or not there are towns or how Hope has too many zippers
At least 13 doesn't have a crappy card game
Just like Tony Jaa!
The greats are always alittle crazy
Jaa and Matsuno need to go to the jungle and brainstorm together. Not sure what they would come up with but it would be AMAZING
Also, what is the point of a weapon upgrade system based on money if you can't get money? The game decides at certain story points to give you money... why not just give you the weapons too?
For all the complaints about 13, I wish more of it was about the actual systems in the game that don't seem to work. The above has me much more worried about my playthrough then whether or not there are towns or how Hope has too many zippers
At least 13 doesn't have a crappy card game
Vinci said:
Just like Tony Jaa!
The greats are always alittle crazy
Jaa and Matsuno need to go to the jungle and brainstorm together. Not sure what they would come up with but it would be AMAZING
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Vinci said:
That's the official story.
But the real story...[/conspiracy theory]
- Status