Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Wait, I forgot about the senzu bean. It has to be Goku.
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Is Goku the most naive hero in anime?
- Thread starter shinobi602
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That's his character. It would be stupid if he got smart and serious all of a sudden.
DB would be a hugely different series if not for Goku's naivete, both in plot and more importantly in tone.
Goku isn't a good guy. He just wants to fight strong peoople and would rather have guys like Vegeta, the ginyu force, frieza, cell, and majin buu stick around, even if it meant the slaughtering of billions. Just so he can have a good fight.
Foes before bros.
That's not true at all.
Linkstrikesback
Member
If frieza had taken the chance and gone only to train for "4 months" he could have come backa nd wrecked goku and utterly destroyed the universe. Goku is an absolute idiot, under no circumstances should frieza have been allowed to leave alive.
He was going to let frieza leave to fight him again some day. He had to be aware of how many people frieza had killed (and would kill). He gave Cell a sensu bean rather than let gohan fight him weakened (and had no idea if gohan could actually beat him at that point), just so they could fight evenly. He wished for majin buu to be reborn despite having no idea he wouldn't turn out the exact same way.
Goku is absolutely naive and unable to understand the value of others lives. It's not surprising in a way, he grew up in a world where he can just wish away anything bad that happens, he literally doesn't understand why dying is such a bad thing for most people.
he tries to let people live so they can have second chances or change their ways, not just so he can have a fun rematch later. I'm pretty sure the only person he let live just to fight again later was Vegeta.
also, i'm pretty sure Cell never got the "second chance" option.
All things considered, was he really though? I'm falling for the joke aren't I?
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Goku used to get upset about that stuff. Now that bringing the entire population of Earth back to life is so trivial, all he cares about is fighting and converting bad guys to good guys. Which he has never succeeded in even once, really.
RedAssedApe
Banned
no. he's just kind of a moron when it comes to everything except fighting
Piccolo and Vegeta?
He was overconfident in his son's ability to kill Cell.
Also, the Buu one is kind of a bad complaint. He took that fight pretty seriously. He only drops the "it's a shame" line at the end after he already knows he's won.
Dude he gave Cell a senzu bean while asking his own 11 year old son to fight him, when the fate of the earth was at stake, and after kid buu had blown up the earth, all goku could think as he was fighting over the fate of the universe on the planet of the kais was "Boy it's a real shame it had to end like this, since you're so strong"
He's not a good guy. He lives to fight, fuck everything else
SenatorBot
Member
I remember reading an interview with Toriyama saying that he designed Goku to be morally ambiguous and didn't like how people called Goku heroic and a good guy when Goku's ultimate goal is to train, fight hard against worthy opponents and to protect his friends. This is why through the series he let many enemies live and would rather see them go away and become stronger so that he could fight them again unless they were actively threatening his friends. (he sees his family as friends too).
I think the anime version of DBZ kinda messed up this detail and potrayed Goku in a more heroic light than originally intended by Toriyama.
I think the anime version of DBZ kinda messed up this detail and potrayed Goku in a more heroic light than originally intended by Toriyama.
And Yamcha. And Tenshinhan.
Space Runaway
Member
Well what do you expect? He's mentally challenged and only excels when it comes to fighting.
Snacks the sober sea lion
Member
Gohan and Bulma won them over, Goku wasn't even around.
Yamcha just stuck with them and decided to stop being a bad guy, Goku didn't try to convert him or anything. Tien was convinced by Roshi.
Krillin wasn't a "bad guy," but he was an enemy and rival, and he turned him, too.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Goku gives people second chances because every single person in the supporting cast was an asshole that became his friend later on.
They were weak-ass humans who had no choice but to capitulate to him, haha.
Goku held them hostage for friendship.
I used to think he was just naive like back in the OG DB days.
Now, it's been made clear that Goku's actions are more out of cockiness rather than naivety. An explanation I like, because it makes the most sense, but equally don't like because I never would attribute Goku to cockiness.
Side note: I'm still just waiting for Gohan to be given the power of Super Saiyan God. The fact that he could out-perform Goku but didn't become Super Saiyan God in BoG because 'reasons' always bugged me.
Now, it's been made clear that Goku's actions are more out of cockiness rather than naivety. An explanation I like, because it makes the most sense, but equally don't like because I never would attribute Goku to cockiness.
Side note: I'm still just waiting for Gohan to be given the power of Super Saiyan God. The fact that he could out-perform Goku but didn't become Super Saiyan God in BoG because 'reasons' always bugged me.
Piccolo's turn started when he teamed up with Goku to defeat Raditz. Piccolo would have never been exposed to Gohan had it not been for that. I would also say Vegeta's turn started on Namek after he realized Goku could be the one to avenge the Saiyans - also, Vegeta would have never turned had it been for Goku
By Battle of Gods Goku had safely surpassed Gohan again. Gohan's been slowly regressing ever since Cell. The only reason he's even relevant is because the Kai's gave him a power boost as a reward for sitting on his butt.
LurkerPrime
Member
Goku's definitely naive, but his good natured attitude is the reason he's so strong. He fights enemies at their strongest to ensure they know they're beaten, even if it means risking everything; this trait seems common in Saiyans. (i.e. Vegeta letting Cell absorb one of the Androids.) Whether it's fate or luck, Goku's pure heart is the reason for his success.
But whether he's the most naive? I haven't seen enough anime to judge. I'll just throw Alphonse Elric out there; I'm sure with senzu beans he would be as reckless as Goku.
But whether he's the most naive? I haven't seen enough anime to judge. I'll just throw Alphonse Elric out there; I'm sure with senzu beans he would be as reckless as Goku.
Does Goku not fight to protect the Earth and innocent bystanders in the manga? Because if he does, it's hard not to see him as a heroic figure.
Gohan got one-shotted by Freiza in Resurrection of F.
He isn't getting shit. He's whack as fuck as always.
SenatorBot
Member
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/03/27/new-interview-translations-akira-toriyama-special-talks/
Toriyama:
Well there you have it, Goku isn't inherently good but just a guy who thirsts for fighting strong opponents so much that he accidentally saves the world in his quest.
Toriyama:
Well there you have it, Goku isn't inherently good but just a guy who thirsts for fighting strong opponents so much that he accidentally saves the world in his quest.
Pretty much this. Goku gave Perfect Cell a senzu bean. He clearly has participating/watching interesting fights over the safety of others.
ChubbyHuggs
Member
Naruto is the most naive Shonen Jump character ever.
NeonZ
Member
That doesn't mean he's not naïve.
Those two aspects aren't mutually exclusive.
He's a naïve, battle-hungry idiot with monomania.
Yeah but he's ninja jesus. literally
I mean, if we're being technical here, Goku didn't try to convert anyone. He just always feels like it would be a shame to let a powerful rival die, since he'd like to be able to fight them again.
shadowsdarknes
Member
Goku was smart/lucky letting Vegeta go. There's no way he beats Frieza without Vegeta on Namek.
Frieza announced his arrival in F by blowing up a city.
And then Goku was still going to let him go so he could apparently go do that to other planets and then come back and do it again.
I think there's a weird juxtaposition with how the American show portrays Goku and the Japanese show. In Japanese he's clearly mentally stunted and has a comically mismatched voice to go with it. In the English dub he's got more or less a grown man's voice and talks as if he's only pretending to be dumb, emphasized with monologues out of nowhere saying how he's the protector of good, and nightmare to evil like youuuu!
And then Goku was still going to let him go so he could apparently go do that to other planets and then come back and do it again.
I think there's a weird juxtaposition with how the American show portrays Goku and the Japanese show. In Japanese he's clearly mentally stunted and has a comically mismatched voice to go with it. In the English dub he's got more or less a grown man's voice and talks as if he's only pretending to be dumb, emphasized with monologues out of nowhere saying how he's the protector of good, and nightmare to evil like youuuu!
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
He fights people only for one reason. He's a hero by happenstance
NeonZ
Member
I think they fit fairly well with Goku after training with Kamisama. But, yes, they don't really work for Kid Goku.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
Yes. Gohan is the Goku that Earth needs. Chi-chi was right to educate him.
What? I'm pretty sure its because he wants to beat the shit out of them and get the shit beaten out of him. He's kinky. Plus he was literally evil until he fell on his head as a baby
Even the English dub didn't really make him the hero as much as the fans just took it that way. He says all the time let him live he's really fun to fight and its king kai and everyone like cmon goku wtf kill him!
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Goku is an irresponsible idiot whose only goal is to fight the strongest fighters. Even if that means putting the entire world at danger. Many times he allows dangerous enemies to recover just so he could fight them at their maximum, despite in doing so he has inadvertently caused the loss of countless lives. He's a monster and the Dragon Balls should not be used to bring him back.
Goku is not naive, watching Dragonball taught me that he's actually a calculated fighting genius asshole.
Damn. The only L Goku's ever taken right here.
Damn. The only L Goku's ever taken right here.
what's with ppl saying Goku doesnt care about ppl and that he isnt heroic? I mean yeah perhaps he does let his enemies go so he can hace a challenge, but he certainly does it for other reasons too. He's a good guy who believes in giving 2nd chances genuinely hoping they might change. Also, he doesnt want to come back to earth after cell saga because it would jeopardize the earth. He'd rather stay dead, and he made that decision before he knew of all the powerful fighters in otherworld, so its not like he stayed dead to find more ppl to fight
Observe. This is what happens when you take mindless entertainment too seriously!
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Goku's way ahead of you OP. He lets people live so they can get stronger. The never ending thirst for strength.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
He's not naive, he just doesn't care
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I mean, it doesn't take away from him being an interesting character, or the show being entertainment. But don't fool yourself into believing he's some pillar of heroic behavior. He's like Greek heroes in that they too were complete villains in other aspects. I think those who take entertainment too seriously are those stating his actions were just, since they have a larger investment in that character to the point of defending it.
This is most apparent when Future Trunks comes to warn about the androids, and Goku flat-out rejects Bulma's idea of using the Dragon Balls to destroy Dr. Gero's lab preemptively, because he wants to fight the androids. This despite Trunks coming from a future where nearly the entire population was wiped out by the androids. I see that part as an unambiguous acknowledgement that Goku is not a hero. "Millions die if I lose? Totally worth the risk!"
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