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[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I've just been wondering, is Guns Owner Rights/Ownership is really a left/right issue in the United States or one that just gets presented as one? I mean (and it's clearly only anecdotal) judging from the Gun Owners Lurking, liberal gun, and other threads a fair of people here who are clearly liberal also seem to own guns or would want to own them. I have to wonder then is as much the issue is presented as a left/right issue that it's really not the case, even support for the issue in politics isn't only limited to Republicans, but many Democrats also support it (both at the national, state, and local level). So does anyone else think that the issue isn't as down the line in reality as it's sometimes made out to be.

 

[Neuromancer]

I think trying to simplify any political issue as just being drawn along left/right lines is a mistake.

Personally I'm fairly liberal in social issues, but I absolutely support law abiding citizens being able to have and carry firearms.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I think trying to simplify any political issue as just being drawn along left/right lines is a mistake.

I agree, it's something that I think actually costs support for gun owners to an extent. That said the NRA does endorse and donate to Democrats.

They spread the money around closer than before

They also have endorsed Dems over Repubs recently nearly endorsed Harry Reid last time.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/ne...ey_contests_democrats_championing_gun_rights/

This article also caught my interest about the NRA and interactions with the left.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0710/39591.html

An excerpt

Critics cite a list of transgressions, from considering an endorsement of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), to endorsing moderate Republicans — and even Democrats — rather than their more-conservative challengers, to taking a cautious approach to Second Amendment court cases and President Barack Obama’s judicial nominees.

And they are especially angry about the group’s willingness to play ball with Democratic leaders on campaign finance legislation vigorously opposed by congressional Republicans, powerful business groups and nearly the entire conservative movement.

Republican congressional leaders have privately conveyed their unhappiness to NRA officials, but online conservative activists linked to the tea party movement have been vociferous in their criticism.

“The NRA is all about the NRA — helping their organization and not necessarily the cause,” said influential conservative blogger Erick Erickson, who has repeatedly taken to his blog RedState in recent weeks to urge conservatives to turn their backs on the NRA.

“There’s an argument to be made that we either hang together or all hang separately in the conservative movement,” he told POLITICO, adding, “A lot of conservatives think the NRA has become much more interested in wooing the bipartisan label than in being really effective Second Amendment fighters.”

Erickson has expressed his preference for the smaller but more reliably GOP-leaning Gun Owners of America, which he called “a consistent and uncompromising defender of the Second Amendment, not a weak little girl of an organization protecting itself while throwing everyone else under the bus.”

The NRA’s defenders say the powerful 138-year-old gun-rights group is simply doing what’s necessary to maintain its seat at the table in a town completely controlled for at least another six months by Democrats.

Chris Cox, the NRA’s chief lobbyist, said the criticism ignores the reason the NRA is such a powerful brand: that it focuses on its core mission of advancing gun owners’ rights, rather than on trying to advance the goals of the conservative movement, writ large. 

“We are part of the conservative movement, but the Second Amendment is unique because it transcends politics; it transcends race, gender, socioeconomic and certainly partisan lines,” he said. “I may have strong personal views on a lot of things — whether it’s health care, immigration, the bank bailouts, taking over car companies, all those things — but that’s not my job. My job and my fiduciary responsibility is to get up every day and protect the Second Amendment.”

He added that many of the groups now criticizing the NRA haven’t helped it in Second Amendment fights and took an oblique shot at Erickson, asserting that “some people would like to use the Second Amendment to drive eyes to a blog.”

 

[PantherLotus]

No. I know lots of racist-hatin', science-quotin' liberals that are fucking packing.

 

[Orayn]

I think trying to simplify any political issue as just being drawn along left/right lines is a mistake.

Personally I'm fairly liberal in social issues, but I absolutely support law abiding citizens being able to have and carry firearms.

This, I'm also a left-leaning individual who usually comes out on the pro-gun side of things. It doesn't have to be a left/right dichotomy.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I think trying to simplify any political issue as just being drawn along left/right lines is a mistake.

Personally I'm fairly liberal in social issues, but I absolutely support law abiding citizens being able to have and carry firearms.

This, I'm also a left-leaning individual who usually comes out on the pro-gun side of things. It doesn't have to be a left/right dichotomy.

Can I join your guys' club?

 

[Hilbert]

I would also like to chime in as a heavy liberal socialist leaning voter that is very pro gun ownership.

 

[staticneuron]

This, I'm also a left-leaning individual who usually comes out on the pro-gun side of things. It doesn't have to be a left/right dichotomy.

Seconded. I don't own a gun myself yet, but I certainly believe in peoples right to own one.

 

[otake]

Media tends to simplify things. There are plenty of liberal gun owners in the south. Democrats don't hate guns but republicans would like you to think so.

Similarly, the republican party doesn't hate hispanics, but democrats would like hispanics to think so...

- myself, I tend to be more liberal these days and I'm for stricter gun control, but against a ban.

 

[Angry Fork]

I'm liberal and think handguns and shotguns should be legal for home protection I also think if anyone comes into your property with intent to rob/kidnap/murder you have the right to kill him on the spot, I hate when I hear stories about people who get in trouble for defending themselves/their family. Anything else should be banned though imo, especially shit as over the top and pointless as Uzi's and rifle's with scopes.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm liberal and think handguns and shotguns should be legal for home protection. Anything else should be banned though imo, especially shit as over the top and pointless as Uzi's and rifle's with scopes.

Hunting?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm liberal and think handguns and shotguns should be legal for home protection I also think if anyone comes into your property with intent to rob/kidnap/murder you have the right to kill him on the spot, I hate when I hear stories about people who get in trouble for defending themselves/their family. Anything else should be banned though imo, especially shit as over the top and pointless as Uzi's and rifle's with scopes.

You know Uzi's are Class 3/NFA weapons and heavily restricted, both in ownership and movement. Those aren't easy to get and I haven't heard of people carrying them that often.

 

[Simplet]

Well of course you'll find plenty of left-leaning people who are pro-gun, especially in America, people are not carbon-copies of each other.

That said, it makes the most sense that right-leaning people would be more pro-gun than the left. People that don't want guns to be legal are trusting the government with their security, and right-wing people don't like the government, they believe in "personnal responsibility". That means they believe in everyone taking care of themselves. It also means they think in terms of "punishment", so they are more likely to believe that taking their gun away from non-criminals is like punishing them for other people's crimes, whereas left-leaning people are more likely to look at the problem from the other end and decide that since more guns apparently means more violence, it is justifiable to ban them alltogether. It seems that the right judges thing more out of principle and the left more in terms of consequences in America, a bit like the tax debate.

 

[daviyoung]

Hunting?

Barbaric.

The whole idea of guns doesn't gel with my euro-senses.

 

[bill gonorrhea]

I would call my self fairly moderate and have carried a gun nearly everyday since I turned 21.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I would call my self fairly moderate and have carried a gun nearly everyday since I turned 21.

Same here.

But I don't carry daily.

 

[Orayn]

Barbaric.

The whole idea of guns doesn't gel with my euro-senses.

The deep-seated tradition of individualism America sort of goes hand in hand with the idea of being able to legally own a weapon to defend yourself from an aggressor. In Europe I imagine attitudes toward such things are quite different, thinking that's strictly the work of police.

 

[Kabouter]

I'm liberal and think handguns and shotguns should be legal for home protection I also think if anyone comes into your property with intent to rob/kidnap/murder you have the right to kill him on the spot, I hate when I hear stories about people who get in trouble for defending themselves/their family. Anything else should be banned though imo, especially shit as over the top and pointless as Uzi's and rifle's with scopes.

Yeah, thousands of people are shot each year with scoped rifles. I don't really see the point in banning them, the most you're going to do is piss off a bunch of hunters.

 

[kinoki]

Barbaric.

The whole idea of guns doesn't gel with my euro-senses.

You and me both. I'm swedish to boot so the very thought of people speaking in terms of "rights" when it comes to guns scares me. I think we have an obligation to dismantle and stop producing fire arms, not creating more and certainly not carrying them.

 

[Angry Fork]

Hunting?

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

 

[Enosh]

I find this thread funny
"some left wing people like guns thus it isn't a left-right issue"

 

[LosDaddie]

It's only a Left/Right issue if you get your news exclusively from chain emails, Fox News, and AM radio pundits. These are most likely the same people who believe More Guns = Less Crime too.

I know quite a few Dems who have concealed carry licenses, and even a few Repubs who don't want a gun in their house.

There is much more common ground on this issue than Limbaugh would have his puppets believe.

 

[Eight Diagram Bat Fighter]

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

Why?

 

[KingGondo]

Being for reasonable regulation of gun ownership does not necessarily make one "anti-gun."

I'm just fine with guns being available to people with background checks, training courses, and restrictions on their use (and serious consequences for their misuse).

It's the fetishization of firearms in our culture and the increasingly extreme gun lobby that I have a problem with.

 

[Barrett2]

To me its one of those issues where in reality there's not much substantive controversy about the overall right to personal gun ownership, but people pretend like there is. Meaning, the large majority of US citizens and politicians believe in personal gun ownership with reasonable restrictions, yet the way its presented in the media is always some cosmic left / right struggle.

 

[AbortedWalrusFetus]

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

I haven't really met any sport hunters that didn't eat their kill. I think it's more rare that people hunt solely for trophies than you think. Also, venison is delicious. So is wild turkey.

 

[Hilbert]

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

What about protecting your animals? We shot an opossum that was killing our chickens with a scoped rifle. I don't really know how we could do that with our bare hands.

 

[Zaptruder]

I'm liberal on a global scale, meaning I'm very liberal on the American scale.

Even I can reconcile with the pro-gun side; as long as they undertake training befitting such a dangerous tool and demonstrate sufficient skill not just in use but ownership then it's fine.

But... that's not what's happening in America.

 

[Davidion]

Always felt it was more of a regional culture issue more than anything else.

 

[sangreal]

Definitely more of a regional issue. Then again, so is the left/right divide to some extent

 

[Evil Benius]

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

You would be surprised what impact doing away with hunting would have on animal populations. For instance deer populations are kept under control in several states through the use of hunting and you can see what impact a ban on hunting would have in certain areas it is not allowed. As an example in Valley Forge, PA deer hunting is not allowed and the herd there is enormous as a result. So bad in fact that an organized hunt of the deer to reduce their numbers by almost 90% had to be proposed.

 

[gcubed]

liberal and pro-gun to an extent. I have a concealed carry permit, but rarely carry. I also don't see a purpose to allowing forms of automatic weapons. I have no problems with shotguns, rifles, handguns, and own a few of each.

To be against hunting means you dont live in an area that is overpopulated with animals.

 

[sangreal]

You would be surprised what impact doing away with hunting would have on animal populations. For instance deer populations are kept under control in several states through the use of hunting and you can see what impact a ban on hunting would have in certain areas it is not allowed. As an example in Valley Forge, PA deer hunting is not allowed and the herd there is enormous as a result. So bad in fact that an organized hunt of the deer to reduce their numbers by almost 90% had to be proposed.

I live in densely populated suburbs and they had to open up the local wooded park for deer hunting because they were becoming a huge nuisance/danger

 

[zomaha]

Repubs try to make it a left/right issue (you know, to score points and shit). But most liberals are live-and-let-live, and owning a gun is the same thing.

 

[kamspy]

I'm liberal on almost everything except gun rights. Makes it hard to vote since gun rights is one of my most important values.

I hate how most politicians feel like they have to subscribe to every ideal of a certain party.

 

[woolley]

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

Have you ever actually been hunting before? It's not like someone just goes out into the woods and starts blasting off on a bunch of animals. The animals have to meet certain criteria before you can kill it and each person is only allowed to kill so many of a certain species per year.

But to be back on topic...I've never met anyone in real life that was anti gun whether they were right or left wing. Everyone knows there are guns out there but for the most part everyone is comfortable with that and never feel like they're in real danger because of it.

 

[WickedAngel]

Fiscally and socially liberal on pretty much everything but I'm an avid supporter of gun ownership and concealed weapons permits. People should not have to rely on the notion that the authorities will suddenly show up to save the day should they ever find themselves in danger.

I do believe in improved gun registration and mandatory firearms training, however.

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

I could likely fabricate a primitive firearm if properly motivated. I could certainly build a good bow.

I'm liberal on almost everything except gun rights. Makes it hard to vote since gun rights is one of my most important values.

I hate how most politicians feel like they have to subscribe to every ideal of a certain party.

The national Democratic platform has largely abandoned this issue due to the shitstorm they caused in the 90s.

 

[Dude Abides]

You should read this article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/8608/

At one time the NRA was reasonable, but then white people started getting really afraid of black people with guns, so governments broadly cracked down on guns. The NRA then got taken over by the real crazies in reaction.

 

[gcubed]

Fiscally and socially liberal on pretty much everything but I'm an avid supporter of gun ownership and concealed weapons permits. People should not have to rely on the notion that the authorities will suddenly show up to save the day should they ever find themselves in danger.

I do believe in improved gun registration and mandatory firearms training, however.

i believe in responsible gun ownership and ways to prove and enforce that, unfortunately many states don't. Where i grew up it was crazy to think you would use a firearm without going through training and safety courses beforehand.

 

[Angry Fork]

Why?

Because humans are already the smartest animals on the planet. I personally feel it isn't fair to stalk an animal using the intellect + resources you have and then on top of that use a weapon that makes killing the easiest thing imaginable. People who do it for fun are pussy's and immoral imo.

I haven't really met any sport hunters that didn't eat their kill. I think it's more rare that people hunt solely for trophies than you think. Also, venison is delicious. So is wild turkey.

I'm talking about people that don't need to hunt to eat but do anyway because it's fun for them. Not to mention ones who kill to sell fur or shark teeth. Then there's the dolphin killers, seal clubbers etc. I doubt these people are killing because they don't have food for their family.

What about protecting your animals? We shot an opossum that was killing our chickens with a scoped rifle. I don't really know how we could do that with our bare hands.

I'm okay with this, but I'm assuming the chickens were going to die anyway? so why not let nature take it's course. Unless you keep pet chickens or something.

Anyway my bad for derailing this into a hunting thing, didn't mean to.

You would be surprised what impact doing away with hunting would have on animal populations. For instance deer populations are kept under control in several states through the use of hunting and you can see what impact a ban on hunting would have in certain areas it is not allowed. As an example in Valley Forge, PA deer hunting is not allowed and the herd there is enormous as a result. So bad in fact that an organized hunt of the deer to reduce their numbers by almost 90% had to be proposed.

And? Earth is just as much their land as it is ours. Nature regulates population on it's own.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

You should read this article.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/8608/

At one time the NRA was reasonable, but then white people started getting really afraid of black people with guns, so governments broadly cracked down on guns. The NRA then got taken over by the real crazies in reaction.

will read.

 

[SD-Ness]

This debate is totally distorted by extremists. I don't think it's a clear "pro-gun" vs. "anti-gun" debate.

I'm all for people having guns. It's a cultural thing for some people. And, hey, they're fun. I get that.

But they're also weapons. And, when in the wrong hands, can be dangerous. So we need some regulation - just to try and prevent these bad scenarios.

So, where does this put me? I'm not anti-gun. I'm pro-gun but pro-control. You can have fun if you play nice.

This is kind of like my stance on finance/banking. I'm all for people working in finance but I'm also pro-regulation. If you want to move currency around for your living, that's fine by me. Capitalism is great and banks raise the quality of life for society. But don't risk the economy's stability when you're doing it and fuck everyone over!

Abortion and death penalty are more clear-cut IMO. I'm absolutely pro-choice and anti-death penalty. I see less wiggle room with these issues.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

Then I demand you harvest, sift and mill your own grain. Knead you dough and bake your own bread.

Humans can make tools and a gun is a tool.

What's better? Going out, stalking and killing an animal? Or walking up to one with a captive bolt pistol?

Guns are fine as long a proper background checks and proper training is given to firearms owners.

And yes, because of the elimination of so many natural predators, culling deer herds is a necessity. The CIRRRRRRRRCLE OF LIIIIIIIIFE!!

 

[(._.)]

Repubs try to make it a left/right issue (you know, to score points and shit). But most liberals are live-and-let-live, and owning a gun is the same thing.

democrats try to turn it into a political issue just as much as republicans

 

[Machine]

I live in Michigan where the opening day of deer hunting season is practically an official holiday. Most of the people heading north to go deer hunting in these parts are dues-paying members of a union and they pretty much all align themselves with the Dems. If you assume Dems are "liberal" then you're going to find a lot of liberals around here that oppose gun control laws.

 

[jorma]

Well, it's not a left/right issue in Sweden. It's not even an issue, even though we have fairly liberal gun laws.

 

[RevDM]

Well, it's not a left/right issue in Sweden. It's not even an issue, even though we have fairly liberal gun laws.

I thought everyone in sweden is required to own a gun in case the germans invade

 

[Red]

And? Earth is just as much their land as it is ours. Nature regulates population on it's own.

We are part of nature.

One of the reason humans have been so successful is because we are really good at killing things.

It should be regulated not illegal. There's nothing wrong with hunting for sport. If people are wiping out an entire species, that's a different story. But hunting doesn't affect ecosystems if it's done right.

This also. Hunting doesn't hurt population when regulated.

 

[SD-Ness]

Hunting for sport should be illegal. And if you hunt for food you should have the balls to do it with your bare hands or something you physically made yourself like a spear/knife to level the playing field.

It should be regulated not illegal. There's nothing wrong with hunting for sport. If people are wiping out an entire species, that's a different story. But hunting doesn't affect ecosystems if it's done right.

 

[Angry Fork]

Then I demand you harvest, sift and mill your own grain. Knead you dough and bake your own bread.

Humans can make tools and a gun is a tool.

What's better? Going out, stalking a killing an animal? Or walking up to one with a captive bolt pistol?

I'm okay with hunting/killing if it's for food. I don't personally do it because I don't need to, I can go to the supermarket and get everything already. Nuke's are tools made by humans too, doesn't mean they should be around.

And why would someone wake up to an animal near them? People don't live in tent's.