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Is it me or I am retarded?

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StoOgE said:
Why are we calling the arts "softer" subjects. You seem to have a bias in your premise. That the humanities are easier subjects than math or science.

I never coined the phrase "soft subjects", hence the quotation, it's just something that is used in discussion about University subjects amongst students. I don't have a bias to any of these "hard" subjects. I'm crap at Math and Science anyway, and if anything I have a bias for these "soft" ones as I love English Literature and Sociology :lol
 
Giard said:
I think most people would agree with that.

In that case, I think most people would be wrong. I think a bunch of math and science majors would assume they had a harder time of it but it's just positional bias.
 
So if I'm taking a history, psychology and philosophy course next term, what does that say about me?

Giard said:
I think most people would agree with that.

I think it depends on the unique skill set on that individual. I have trouble coming up with unique, interesting ideas for plays, scripts, etc. but my friends who is majoring in Screen/Play writing is (obviously) better. Likewise friends in music industry are better than I since I don't play an instrument. Etc, etc, etc.
 
Hasn't it been documented that males are more left sided and females are usually more right sided, lending credence to the fact that without a doubt, males are much more prevalent in fields such as engineering and science. I mean, anecdotally, i can tell you that women in engineering are definitely in the small minority. The concept of "light" versus "heavy" majors is tainted by earning power more than anything, which isn't to say that writers and journalists, and language arts majors aren't useful; it's just that they don't get compensated on the level that the hard math and science major types do.
 
Alucrid said:
So if I'm taking a history, psychology and philosophy course next term, what does that say about me?

You are a girl and you don't want to challenge yourself with anything "hard".

Ironically, the University of Texas uses a philosophy course as it's weed out course for Comp Scie majors. But don't tell that to the people taking "hard" subjects.
 
The op is just so strange to me because the dichotomy between objective masculinity and "emotional" femininity is just so blatant...but he doesn't address how stereotypical the lines he's drawn actually are. I don't think you're trying to be offensive or anything but it's like a standup comedian going "white people walk like this and black people walk like that". The binary logic is just soo...durpa durrrr....
 
I see women in all majors.

What I'm more concerned with is... I see people that were way smarter than me in high school in "softer" subjects, community college, or no college.
 
It's more of a societal thing than anything else. Girls are more than capable but most girls tend to gravitate towards professions/courses where they know they wouldn't be alone, or that they would at least have a chance to get to somewhere later after they are done with their education. Even today, some professions are considered more masculine than others, and are dominated by males, even companies that hire people prefer males for those professions. Things are changing though, very slowly but they are. I was one of the 3 girls in our software engineering/IT/development classes.
 
Kinitari said:
I think I see what you are saying OP, but I think the "harder/softer" language is poorly placed. It kind of seems as though males and females have different interests when it comes to post secondary education, but that isn't so surprising.

I do wonder why it is that females tend to shy away from the Computer Sciences - is it biological or sociological? My money is on the latter, I don't think there is anything about Computers that talks to the male mind more than the female, but because of the environment and upbringing variations between the sexes, there is just something that compels males towards Compsi, and females away.

Mind you, this is essentially all out of my ass, so feel free to put me in my place.
It's cultural dude. Women who lived in the 1950's still didn't have the opportunity to study the scientific and mathematic subjects in universities(there were some exceptions). It was discouraged heavily because a woman's role was seen as a housewife, mother, wife and housemaker. This is pretty much fact.

More and more women have started entering these previously male-dominated subjects now that the stigma of a being a career-woman is slowly dying out. A larger percentage of women still study the "soft" subjects, but the numbers will even out with the "hard" subjects over time.
 
Inanna said:
It's more of a societal thing than anything else. Girls are more than capable but most girls tend to gravitate towards professions/courses where they know they wouldn't be alone, or that they would at least have a chance to get to somewhere later after they are done with their education. Even today, some professions are considered more masculine than others, and are dominated by males, even companies that hire people prefer males for those professions. Things are changing though, very slowly but they are. I was one of the 3 girls in our software engineering/IT/development classes.

Hey look, someone in this thread is right finally.
 
StoOgE said:
You are a girl and you don't want to challenge yourself with anything "hard".

Ironically, the University of Texas uses a philosophy course as it's weed out course for Comp Scie majors. But don't tell that to the people taking "hard" subjects.

That explains a lot. Brb, I'ma switch to a fashion design major.
 
I've wondered this before.

I do know that there a 0 women in the world that work in IT.

Literally none.
 
StoOgE said:
Why are we calling the arts "softer" subjects. You seem to have a bias in your premise. That the humanities are easier subjects than math or science.

He is extending the terminology of hard science (also known as 'natural sciences' - physics, chemistry, geology, etc) and soft science (also known as 'social science' - psychology, sociology, communications, etc). The hard/soft term is not directly related to difficulty, though I'm not going to claim that some people in the natural sciences don't carry a certain air of superiority towards those in social sciences..
 
StoOgE said:
Why are we calling the arts "softer" subjects. You seem to have a bias in your premise. That the humanities are easier subjects than math or science.
So I'm curious to know what is your field of study then? :lol
 
Giard said:
I think most people would agree with that.

Math was always my easiest course even when I was taking the highest levels available in high school. It bored me to tears so I took the bare minimum I needed to get my degree in college. I'd rather take a theory class any day over another math class despite the easy 4.0 in the latter.
 
DeathNote said:
I see women in all majors.

What I'm more concerned with is... I see people that were way smarter than me in high school in "softer" subjects, community college, or no college.

Yeah i know a guy, one of my old best frinds from high school. Smart as hell, As in all maths and sciences etc, went on to do graphics.
Great waste imo, the media/graphics area is oversaturated.
 
StoOgE said:
In that case, I think most people would be wrong. I think a bunch of math and science majors would assume they had a harder time of it but it's just positional bias.

Again, anecdotal evidence, but I know a few guys from engineering who take history classes so they can have at least some easy classes.

I think we're confusing taste and easiness...can't really find the words to explain.
 
Sure enough, I move in the opposite direction of this presumed tendency. I've always had a tendency towards humanities subjects (including economics?). I do often wonder that I may not have given science and maths a fair chance in high school. I was quite good at chemistry, for instance, but didn't pursue it far.
 
My accounting courses tended to be about 60% male, but since more females are enrolled in the university than guys, their representation is a little skewed. A few history electives I took were dominated by females. Good times.
 
tokkun said:
He is extending the terminology of hard science (also known as 'natural sciences' - physics, chemistry, geology, etc) and soft science (also known as 'social science' - psychology, sociology, communications, etc). The hard/soft term is not directly related to difficulty, though I'm not going to claim that some people in the natural sciences don't carry a certain air of superiority towards those in social sciences..

I get that is where the term comes from, but that isn't how it's being used here considering most people seem to be following up the description of hard or soft science with gender role junk.

Plus, there are no real hard or soft sciences, but that's a different thread.

Giard said:
Again, anecdotal evidence, but I know a few guys from engineering who take history classes so they can have at least some easy classes.

I think we're confusing taste and easiness...can't really find the words to explain.

And are they taking non-major history courses? Is your schools history department any good?

shintoki said:
So I'm curious to know what is your field of study then? :lol

Double major:

Philosophy and Finance.

Oh snap, I took one of each. I found Philosophy to be both harder and more rewarding.
 
Cindres said:
Yeah i know a guy, one of my old best frinds from high school. Smart as hell, As in all maths and sciences etc, went on to do graphics.
Great waste imo, the media/graphics area is oversaturated.
I know a girl, did amazing in high school, went to community college to be a hair stylist.
 
StoOgE said:
I get that is where the term comes from, but that isn't how it's being used here considering most people seem to be following up the description of hard or soft science with gender role junk.

Plus, there are no real hard or soft sciences, but that's a different thread.

To be honest if no one can understand the context of these terms then they shouldn't refer to them or comment about this at all.
 
Giard said:
Again, anecdotal evidence, but I know a few guys from engineering who take history classes so they can have at least some easy classes.

I think we're confusing taste and easiness...can't really find the words to explain.

So basically they're taking classes that are pretty much the equivalent of high school level made for non-history majors?
 
tokkun said:
He is extending the terminology of hard science (also known as 'natural sciences' - physics, chemistry, geology, etc) and soft science (also known as 'social science' - psychology, sociology, communications, etc). The hard/soft term is not directly related to difficulty, though I'm not going to claim that some people in the natural sciences don't carry a certain air of superiority towards those in social sciences..

I would bet a lot of money that the avg. physics major is smarter than the avg. sociology major, the avg. mathematics major smarter the avg. psychology major, etc.

Another thing, I'm not sure if it's accurate to lump philosophy alongside the other humanities or alongside social sciences. Philosophy is a very tough subject, and coincidentally, philosophy majors are also predominantly male: http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/22/24243/.
 
StoOgE said:
Double major:

Philosophy and Finance.

Oh snap, I took one of each. I found Philosophy to be both harder and more rewarding.
Finance isn't one of the "Harder" ones though. :lol
 
DeathNote said:
I know a girl, did amazing in high school, went to community college to be a hair stylist.
follow your dreams etc.

can't help that you are intelligent if your passion is styling people's hair.
 
You know, all this Dragona talk made me realize I haven't seen Dragona or Evilore over here in the OT in a while :(. I see more than enough Bishoptl and Blackace, I need some variety in my moderation.
 
Goya said:
I would bet a lot of money that the avg. physics major is smarter than the avg. sociology major, the avg. mathematics major smarter the avg. psychology major, etc.

Please provide your definition of 'smarter'.

Another thing, I'm not sure if it's accurate to lump philosophy alongside the other humanities or alongside social sciences. Philosophy majors are predominantly male: http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2009/10/22/24243/.

Personally would not group philosophy with any 'science', though I do like to think of myself as a natural philosopher.
 
My fiance is about to start grad school for bio-mech engineering :D We've discussed this issue, and classes throughout her major can be a mixed bag, although typically fewer girls are generally there. I'm majoring in econ, and there are WAY more ladies hanging around the business college, but that may have a lot to do with business degrees being the initial default degree. No idea on what a ratio would be there, though.
 
Kinitari said:
You know, all this Dragona talk made me realize I haven't seen Dragona or Evilore over here in the OT in a while :(. I see more than enough Bishoptl and Blackace, I need some variety in my moderation.

Gaming is that-a-way.
 
Goya said:
Higher I.Q. and higher SAT scores
I wouldn't say either define more intelligent, but of course this is all up to your definition of intelligence. No different than what you view as hard or soft courses.
 
My sister's Pharmacy School graduation had a fuck ton of females. I should have been a Pharmacist because she makes a lot more than I do now plus the great odds of landing a Pharmacist wife while in school. Two Pharmacist salaries would be easy living.
 
shintoki said:
I wouldn't say either define more intelligent, but of course this is all up to your definition of intelligence. No different than what you view as hard or soft courses.

I'm just going to quote Steven Pinker on the matter. More from the link I posted before:

Pinker said:
Indeed, contrary to Liz, and the popular opinion of many intellectuals, the tests are surprisingly good. There is an enormous amount of data on the predictive power of the SAT. For example, people in science careers overwhelmingly scored in 90th percentile in the SAT or GRE math test. And the tests predict earnings, occupational choice, doctoral degrees, the prestige of one's degree, the probability of having a tenure-track position, and the number of patents. Moreover this predictive power is the same for men and for women. As for why there is that underprediction of grades — a slight under-prediction, one-tenth of a standard deviation — the Educational Testing Service did a study on that phenomenon, and were able to explain the mystery by a combination of the choice of major, which differs between the sexes, and the greater conscientiousness of women.

--

Twilight Princess said:
probly because he took it at one point in time and got an ok score

IQ is the preferable metric, but when IQs are not available, SAT scores are a fine substitute.
 
Girls have different interests then boys. News at 11.

It has nothing to do with difficulty either. You can probably argue some sociological theories as to why this is. Girls played house and with barbies at a young age etc etc.
 
StoOgE said:
Ironically, the University of Texas uses a philosophy course as it's weed out course for Comp Scie majors. But don't tell that to the people taking "hard" subjects.


PHL313K is supposed to be a weed out class? 10 years ago it was one of 10 mandatory courses to apply for entry into the CS program, along with calculus, 2-3 computer sciences, and sciences. I am not sure philosophy was necessarily the hardest class for everyone. Correct me if my assumptions are wrong.


The lower division CS classes were quite hilarious. The females were so few and far between that it seemed each of the 4-5 girls had their own set of groupies. They were quite popular among the guys.
 
Alucrid said:
Gaming is that-a-way.

:( I guess I might as well trudge over there eventually, see what's going on with games. I do need to make a thread asking for DIY DSlite repair advice. Maybe Evilore or Dragona will lock it :D .
 
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